![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 54 to 78 of 79. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 28, 2009, at 18:10:13
In reply to Lou's reply to Mr. Hsiung-antisemitism-nvragn, posted by Lou Pilder on July 28, 2009, at 15:50:22
> > > > > > > > > > > > C. If you could identify members here in your catagory in question, could you make a list of those in that catagory?
> > > > > > > > > > > > D. If so, could you email me that list or email it to someone that could email it to me?
> > > > > > > > > > > > E. Do you think that any people on a list like that, they saw their name on the list,could be led to feel put down?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > Mr. Hsiung,
> > > Here is the corrected link that contains the link notated Matt 27
> > > Lou Pilder
> > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20080404/msgs/832720.html
> > > > > > > > > > > Please be sensitive to the feelings of others. For example, please don't suggest that anyone do anything that might lead others to feel put down.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > But please don't take this personally, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person, and I'm sorry if this hurts you.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > More information about posting policies is in the FAQ:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforce
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Bob
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Mr. Hsiung,
> > > > > > > > > > You wrote,[...don't suggest that anyone do anything that might lead others to feel put down...]
> > > > > > > > > > I do not see anything in my request that you cited that suggests that the poster in question could feel put down untill you could respond by posting answers to the following. If you could, then I could then have a better underdstanding of what you wrote to me and respond accordingly.
> > > > > > > > > > In regards to your TOS here that this board is for to ask for your rationales, have dialog concerning the actions that you take and the policy and rules here ect;
> > > > > > > > > > A. What is the criteria that you used to determine that my request could lead , I guess, the poster, to feel put down?
> > > > > > > > > > B. If it is someone other than the poster that you write that they could be led to feel put down, I guess, by them reading my request to another member, what could be your rationale for such?
> > > > > > > > > > C. Is asking that another email to anyone here the same as asking the member to post what they are requesting for them to email, if what is requested exists? . If so, could you post here your rationale for such?
> > > > > > > > > > D. In your TOS that you do what in your thinking will be good for the communitty as a whole, and that you would like others to try to trust you in that regard, could you post here what your rationale is that could make it good for the commnunity as whole for others to be restricted here to request from another member something about what they posted and why members are to try to trust you in that regard? If your reply contains aspects with my requests in A, B and C here included in any reply from you to me here, I think that that could go a long way for members to have a better understnding of the actions that you take here and then they could also have the opportunity IMO to post what IMO could be good for the community as a whole if they like. If you could, then I could post here all the outstanding requests from me to you, all of the outsdtanding notification from me to you, and them others could have the opportunity IMO to make their own determination about my concerns without emailing me.
> > > > > > > > > > E. If the same request could be posted here by modifying the request, what would be needed to put in that request, if there exists something to make it acceptable to be posted here?
> > > > > > > > > > F. Could a member request to another member that they apologize and if so, what could be in your thinking the differentiating criteria that could make that an acceptable request and requesting to email me would not?
> > > > > > > > > > Lou Pilder
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Mr. Hsiung,
> > > > > > > > > If you are considering posting a reply here to my requests to you in this thrread, could you look at the posts in the threads that the following links bring up? If you could, I would like for you to consider what could be seen in those threads in any reply to me here that you may post.
> > > > > > > > > And to member interested in considering posting here in this thread, I would like for you also to look at the posts in the links and consider what can be seen there.
> > > > > > > > > If you are are further interested and would like to email me for additional infomation concerning the aspects here involved, I could email you links that could give further infomation regarding:
> > > > > > > > > A. What other psychiatrists/psychologists write regarding some aspects of the situation that can be seen here that IMO could offer you more understanding so as to post with more infomation
> > > > > > > > > B. The historical parallels to what can be seen here.
> > > > > > > > > C. Posts from here that might IMO could be very interesting in reagrds to what can be seen here as to if you are considering posting here in this thread or parallel threads.
> > > > > > > > > Here are some links that I would appreciate if interested members could take some time to explore.
> > > > > > > > > Lou Pilder
> > > > > > > > > lpilder_1188@fuse.net
> > > > > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090702/msgs/907121.html
> > > > > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090707/msgs/907122.html
> > > > > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090707/msgs/906568.html
> > > > > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090302/msgs/897756.html
> > > > > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20080709/mshs/841329.html
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > corrected link
> > > > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20080709/msgs/841329.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mr. Hsiung,
> > > > > > > You wrote to me,[...please be sensitive to the feelings of others...suggest to...]
> > > > > > > You have directed an accusation toward me and I do not appreciate it. Blamimg me for another's feelings because they wrote something here and I would like for them to clarify such by emailing me what they are wanting to mean is causing me distress that I did not expect from a psychiatrist that invites his guests to be part of a supportive and safe environment.
> > > > > > > Why are you blaming me here for another's feelings? What about my feelings? Do you have an idea of what it feels like as a Jew here to be characterized in the manner that you say you will allow to be posted without your notation in the thread where it appears to be not conducive to civic harmony and welfare of the community because it is in a link when you have also posted here that members are not to post links to sites that have anti-Semitic content? Do you know what it feels like as a Jew to be characterized as evil in a mental health community and you allow it? Do you know how it feels as a Jew when a rule is made to prevent me from posting more than 3 consecutive posts which could allow me to uncover anti-Semitic statements and others are not told to be civil when they use more than 3 consecutive posts? You want to claim negligence? You want to claim you don't have the time? You want to claim that it is impossible? Impossible? If so, what causes it too be impossible? Is that an exaggeration?
> > > > > > > You want others to trust you in what you do here. Can they also blame me for their feelings if I request from them to clarify what they wrote by emailing me? Could they not decline my request? How can I find out from them if they do not tell me? Use the notification so you can ask them? But there are outstanding notifications from me so what kind of expectation do I have that you would do so if that was a way? You write that in your TOS that you wil reply or post in the thread to a notification. Do YOu know how it feels when that is not done over and over when it is in your TOS that members have an expectation of?
> > > > > > > Perhaps someone greater than me will come by someday here that will find a way that will cause you to notate all the statements here that could to have the potential arrouse antisemitic feelings, or lead a Jew to feel put down, that you are allowing to stand. They may see it as humiliation toward Jews. You say it is in the past? I can see them in thhe present. You say that a match can start a forest fire? Well, I see an unquenched flame waiting for somone to pick it up and could carry it to other places. You say that the foundation of my faith(Judaism) if posted will put down others? Do you know how it feels for a Jew to hear that from a psychiatrist when he allows antisemitic statements to stand? You say that others can post what could lead a Jew IMO to feel put down because they believe it? And you say that it is good that they believe it? And I believe the commmandment to me from my God and you threaten to expell me here if I was to post what I believe? Do you know how it feels as a Jew to be held to different standards? And you want to blame me for another's feelings. Why is that good for the community as a whole? Do you want me to feel shame for requesting another to email me at their option? Do you want others to see me in a light such as that? If so, why? Do you know what it feels like as a Jew to feel that hostility has the potential to be arroused toward them?
> > > > > > > Lou Pilder
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Mr. Hsiung,
> > > > > > If you are going to reply to me here, I would like for you to read the following and follow all of it's content and consider what can be seen in any reply to me here.. For members interested in an in-depth commentary , they could email me if they like.
> > > > > > Lou Pilder
> > > > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20051105/msgs/656322.html
> > > > >
> > > > > Mr. Hsiung,
> > > > > I consider that an adminstrator of a mental health site is obligated to do all he can to make sure that antisemitic statements are notated as being uncivil here as other statements, in that could lead Jews to feel accused or put down.
> > > > > In the link to the post in question here, the last link in the post has statements that could lead a Jew to feel accused/put down that are left to stand. I would like for you to post here your rationale for allowing those statements about Jews to stand while you accuse me and blame me for the feelings of another because I request clarification or identification to be emailed to me concerning what they posted.
> > > > > Lou Pilder
> > > >
> > > > Mr. Hsiung,
> > > > Could you also look into what is in the link offerd in the following post marked Matt 27 and read the whole chapter? If you could, could you then post here your rationale for allowing it to stand?
> > > > Lou Pilder
> > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20080404/msgs/832720.html
> > >
> > >
> > Mr. Hsiung,
> > Here is a post that shows your attitude toward Jews and me as a Jew here. You are unwilling to sanction the following that could lead a Jew to feel put down or accused. The member posts a list titled;
> > [...The top 10 worst reasons for organized religion...]
> > Then in number 5 the member lists;
> > [...to foster any agenda that is not centered in Christ...]
> > You allow that antisemitic statement to stand. The Jew's agenda is not centered in the Christ that that member puts forth here in his/her posts. And the Jews do not consider that the agenda of their religion is to be put into a catagory of being a {worst} religion. And I as Jew am deeply humiliated by your attitude and action here, for as a Jew here I am asked to accept that you are doing what will be good for the community as a whole by allowing the antisemitic statement to remain without it being notated as uncivl by you. And you ask members to trust you in what you do here. This leads me to feel accused and put down by you. It also arrouses the fear that I could be a victim of antisemitic violence either physically or emotionally or psychologically by what is posted to me from you or your deputies or members.
> > Here is the link to the post and the statement in question is #5 in the second list.
> > Lou Pilder
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20040729/msgs/378930.html
>
> Mr. Hsiung,
> You are unwilling to post that antisemitic statements are uncivil in the following link. The statements are defamatory to Jews and thearfore IMO defamatory to humanity itself. You allow them to remain here without being notated as being uncivil. You think there is a difference between what is in a link and what is posted without a link. And you have posted that links with antisemitic content are not to be posted, period. Yet today, the statements stand out from a psychiatrist that has a rule to not post what could lead one to feel put down here.
> We Jews have a mission, it is called,{never again}. Never again will we allow the promotion of antisemitism for any reason, even if it is in a link. You say it is different. A chestnut horse is different froma palomino horse but they are both horses. They are just different colors.
> Look at what you allow here to remain unnotated as being uncivil
> http:www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041109/msgs/429282.html
> Then click on one of the links that brings up the defmation to the Jews of the worst kind. It is the kind that the Nazis used to arrouse hatred toward the Jews and promote the myth of the master race, used by Goebbles who killed his 6 children befor killing himself and Stricker who was hung as a war criminal.
> You go ahead and promote yourself and while you address audiances about thhe best of 2 worlds, you could look into the audiance and may see a third world, and see if you can see the 1 1/2 million Jewish children that were murdered by the Nazis who called the Jews the same things that are in the link that you are unwilling to notate as uncivil here. And see if you can see my face. You won't, for I would never go to see you. But you may see one in my place, riding a White Horse, and He will say to you, "If you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you have done it to me."
> Lou Pilder
>
There are two corrections in the post above. One id to the link's URL and the other is to a sentance that lost a word.
The statement should read that [...the statements stand out from a mental health site owned and operated by apsychiatrist that has a rule to not post what could lead one to feel put down...]
The corretced link is;
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/2004109/msgs/429282.html
Posted by Kath on July 28, 2009, at 18:33:38
In reply to Lou's reply to Mr. Hsiung-antisemitism, posted by Lou Pilder on July 28, 2009, at 7:15:09
Dear Lou
>[...The top 10 worst reasons for organized religion...]
>Then in number 5 the member lists;
[...to foster any agenda that is not centered in Christ...]There are lots of religions that are not centered in Christ. I'm not a scholar by any means but the ones that come to mind are:
Hinduism
Islam
BuddhismSo the way I see it, statement #5 could be interpretted as "anti-" lots of things....not just "anti-" one thing.
I only had the mental energy to read your actual post, not the material above it. But this is my 'take' on judging that statement #5.
Kind thoughts, Kath
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on July 28, 2009, at 20:27:45
In reply to Lou's reply to Mr. Hsiung-antisemitism-nvragn, posted by Lou Pilder on July 28, 2009, at 15:50:22
>Look at what you allow here to remain unnotated as being uncivil
>the last link in the post has statements that could lead a Jew to feel accused/put down that are left to stand.
>....that antisemitic statement to stand.Please follow site guidelines by using the Notification system *only* to point out posts you think are uncivil. Please do not refer to them specifically or post links to them on the board.
You have been asked not to do this before and blocked for posting something similar, so I am going to again block you from posting for one week.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
-- 10derHeart, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 6, 2009, at 20:55:50
In reply to Lou's reply to Mr. Hsiung-antisemitism-nvragn, posted by Lou Pilder on July 28, 2009, at 15:50:22
> I do not see anything in my request that you cited that suggests that the poster in question could feel put down
My concern wasn't about that poster, but others who might be listed, or worry about being listed -- including yourself.
> You have directed an accusation toward me and I do not appreciate it. Blamimg me ... is causing me distress that I did not expect from a psychiatrist that invites his guests to be part of a supportive and safe environment.
> What about my feelings?I'm sorry I caused you distress. It seems to me Scott tried to support you, and I appreciate that.
> You are unwilling to post that antisemitic statements are uncivil in the following link.
I can't undo the past. But I agree that anti-Semitic statements are uncivil. Have any been posted recently?
> there could be the potential that I could become a target of ridicule, a scapegoat
> Do you know what it feels like as a Jew to be characterized as evil in a mental health community and you allow it?
How have you felt being ridiculed and characterized as evil?
Has anybody else had experiences like that? Either here or elsewhere? Lou, I doubt you're alone.
Bob
Posted by Deneb on August 8, 2009, at 18:22:06
In reply to Re: ridiculed and characterized as evil, posted by Dr. Bob on August 6, 2009, at 20:55:50
((((((((((Dr. Bob)))))))))))
You're so kind. I love you.
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 9, 2009, at 10:12:16
In reply to Re: ridiculed and characterized as evil, posted by Dr. Bob on August 6, 2009, at 20:55:50
> > I do not see anything in my request that you cited that suggests that the poster in question could feel put down
>
> My concern wasn't about that poster, but others who might be listed, or worry about being listed -- including yourself.
>
> > You have directed an accusation toward me and I do not appreciate it. Blamimg me ... is causing me distress that I did not expect from a psychiatrist that invites his guests to be part of a supportive and safe environment.
> > What about my feelings?
>
> I'm sorry I caused you distress. It seems to me Scott tried to support you, and I appreciate that.
>
> > You are unwilling to post that antisemitic statements are uncivil in the following link.
>
> I can't undo the past. But I agree that anti-Semitic statements are uncivil. Have any been posted recently?
>
> > there could be the potential that I could become a target of ridicule, a scapegoat
>
> > Do you know what it feels like as a Jew to be characterized as evil in a mental health community and you allow it?
>
> How have you felt being ridiculed and characterized as evil?
>
> Has anybody else had experiences like that? Either here or elsewhere? Lou, I doubt you're alone.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You asked me a question here as to identification of ant-Semitic posts if any.
You have made rules so that I do not know if I could or could not answer your question. The rules are:
A. Do not post more then 3 consecutive posts. I would need more than that to post a reply to you here.
B. Use the notification system
I have nummerous outstanding requests so I am unsure if any further notifications could be placed ahead of the outstanding ones or not.
C. The notifications have been replied to me by your designate as that they would be responded to as soon as possible. That could mean that at this time it is impossible to respond. If you want it to mean something else, could you post your meaning here? Then if it is impossible to respond to those, what could be that could make it possible for you to respond to any other request? And you have posted that replies to me are to be considered to come from all of you, but I am unsure as to if there are exceptions or not to that statement posted by you to me here.
D. other aspects not listed
If you could post here how I could post an answer your question to me so that I could have an expectation of a reply from you today, then I could feel more comfortable in posting a reply to your request to me here.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 9, 2009, at 13:36:21
In reply to Re: ridiculed and characterized as evil, posted by Dr. Bob on August 6, 2009, at 20:55:50
> > I do not see anything in my request that you cited that suggests that the poster in question could feel put down
>
> My concern wasn't about that poster, but others who might be listed, or worry about being listed -- including yourself.
>
> > You have directed an accusation toward me and I do not appreciate it. Blamimg me ... is causing me distress that I did not expect from a psychiatrist that invites his guests to be part of a supportive and safe environment.
> > What about my feelings?
>
> I'm sorry I caused you distress. It seems to me Scott tried to support you, and I appreciate that.
>
> > You are unwilling to post that antisemitic statements are uncivil in the following link.
>
> I can't undo the past. But I agree that anti-Semitic statements are uncivil. Have any been posted recently?
>
> > there could be the potential that I could become a target of ridicule, a scapegoat
>
> > Do you know what it feels like as a Jew to be characterized as evil in a mental health community and you allow it?
>
> How have you felt being ridiculed and characterized as evil?
>
> Has anybody else had experiences like that? Either here or elsewhere? Lou, I doubt you're alone.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[... being ridiculed and characterized as evil...I doubt that you are alone...].
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post here clarification to the following, then I could know what you are wanting to mean and respond.
A. Would my feelings be any more or less to you if there are or are not others that have had the same experiance here or outside this mental health community?
Lou Pilder
Posted by Deneb on August 10, 2009, at 11:39:57
In reply to Re: I wish Dr. Bob could be my friend, posted by Deneb on July 26, 2009, at 23:07:56
I wish I had magical powers and could stop and start time whenever I wanted. I could then "awaken" anyone I wanted. Plus, I wish I could teleport anywhere I wanted to and if I touch another person, he or she would teleport with me.
Then we can have a Babble Party anytime we wanted. Maybe Dr. Bob would get stressed out or something and then he could Babblemail me that he wants some time out. So then I could stop time, teleport to Chicago and then awaken Dr. Bob. Then we'd go around to other parts of the world gathering Babblers and go somewhere really neat, like Hawaii, Las Vegas, Disney World or New Zealand or something and we'd have a lot of fun.
Then when we want to go back to real life, we'd just teleport back and start time again.
We'd have fun whenever we wanted, transportation and time constraints would not be a problem for anyone.
Babble Parties are really fun. I don't talk a lot, but I am having lots of fun when I'm with Babblers and Dr. Bob.
Dr. Bob is a really fun guy to be around.
I hope we have Babble Parties every year and I could go to every one of them and we'd go until we were all old and grey and we'd all live to be in our 100's and still go to Babble Parties.
Posted by Sigismund on August 10, 2009, at 14:56:02
In reply to Lou's reply to Mr. Hsiung-prtx » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on August 9, 2009, at 13:36:21
>> > there could be the potential that I could become a target of ridicule, a scapegoat
A community can be judged by the manner in which its most vulnerable members are treated.
In the same way, a decent community will abstain from, and if necessary prevent, ridicule and scapegoating.
Posted by BayLeaf on August 10, 2009, at 20:56:35
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Mr. Hsiung-prtx, posted by Sigismund on August 10, 2009, at 14:56:02
I like this statement very much, "A community can be judged by the manner in which its most vulnerable members are treated. "
bay
Posted by Sigismund on August 11, 2009, at 2:16:21
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Mr. Hsiung-prtx » Sigismund, posted by BayLeaf on August 10, 2009, at 20:56:35
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 11, 2009, at 3:27:00
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Mr. Hsiung-prtx » Sigismund, posted by BayLeaf on August 10, 2009, at 20:56:35
> I like this statement very much, "A community can be judged by the manner in which its most vulnerable members are treated. "
Me, too. One way of looking at it is that the most vulnerable members here are those who are unwilling or unable to be civil.
I also liked:
> > In the same way, a decent community will abstain from, and if necessary prevent, ridicule and scapegoating.
A decent community will be civil.
Scapegoating can be complicated, though, and the individual as well as the community may play (often unintentionally) a role.
Bob
Posted by 10derHeart on August 11, 2009, at 3:30:29
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to Mr. Hsiung-prtx, posted by Sigismund on August 10, 2009, at 14:56:02
Who decides who and when, or if, members are vulnerable? What if someone see themselves as vulnerable and others do not see that?
It's complicated.
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 11, 2009, at 4:50:33
In reply to Re: vulnerable members, posted by Dr. Bob on August 11, 2009, at 3:27:00
> > I like this statement very much, "A community can be judged by the manner in which its most vulnerable members are treated. "
>
> Me, too. One way of looking at it is that the most vulnerable members here are those who are unwilling or unable to be civil.
>
> I also liked:
>
> > > In the same way, a decent community will abstain from, and if necessary prevent, ridicule and scapegoating.
>
> A decent community will be civil.
>
> Scapegoating can be complicated, though, and the individual as well as the community may play (often unintentionally) a role.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...the most vulnerable members here are those who are unwilling or unable to be civil...].
I do not feel comfortable when I read that statement of yours. I am afraid that others could make conclusions from what you wrote because of that there is the potential in my opinion for unspecified members to be the object members in your statement since you do not include spacific member's names. It is possible IMO that you could be referring to many members here for the community at large does not know the criteria that you use to determine which members fall in the catagory of unwilling or unable to be civil. If you could post here your rationale (criteria) that you use to lable a member unwilling or unable, then members could place themselves or not in your group that you are referring to and respond if they like to you.
It is my fear that others could take from what you wrote a form of stigmatization of the unspecified members in your statement, myself included, and that any mermber here IMO that has been told by you to be civil could potentially be thought to be in the catagory of the type of member that you write of here, myself being one of those members. I would need more than 3 consecutive posts to fully describe my feelings here concerning this type of statement that you posted here. I would like to post the historical parallels where that statement had been used and the results to the peoples and the community itself that had it's leader(s) make a statement of that nature.
I would also need answers from you to the numerous requests from me to you that are outstanding, and also the outstanding notifications, in order to fully post a response to your statement here in question that you posted so that it is to the community as a response to a member's post.
I think that it could be fair to me if you could post replies to all of the outstanding requests and such so that I could have the opportunity to respond to your statement in question here fully in order to defend myself from the potential IMO of being stigmatized by the statement in question and possibly be a victim of anti-Semitic violence since you at this time are unwilling to post in the threads a sanction to statements that could lead a Jew to feel accused or put down can be seen.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 11, 2009, at 5:50:36
In reply to Re: vulnerable members, posted by Dr. Bob on August 11, 2009, at 3:27:00
> > I like this statement very much, "A community can be judged by the manner in which its most vulnerable members are treated. "
>
> Me, too. One way of looking at it is that the most vulnerable members here are those who are unwilling or unable to be civil.
>
> I also liked:
>
> > > In the same way, a decent community will abstain from, and if necessary prevent, ridicule and scapegoating.
>
> A decent community will be civil.
>
> Scapegoating can be complicated, though, and the individual as well as the community may play (often unintentionally) a role.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...the individual..may play (often unintentionally)..a role (in scapegoating)...]
That may be factual, but I do not feel comfortable here in that since there is not a specified individual in your statement here, many members could have the potential IMO to think that they are in your catagory in question. If you could specify the criteria, (your rationale), that you would use to make such a determination, if you would use such, then members could see what they are and determine if you are or are not including them in your statement or not and respond if they like to you.
I would also need more than 3 consecutive posts to fully express my concerns here in regards to a leader posting such a statement to the community. I would also like to post here the historical parallels where a leader has promulgated such a statement and the results to the peoples and the country that the statement of that nature led to.
I am afraid that since you have not specified those in the group that you are refering to, that others could have the potential IMO to think that I am one of those and that I could become a target of anti-Semitic violence since there are numerous outstanding requests by me to you and numerous outstanding notifications, and statements posted that could lead a Jew to feel put down that remain without a notation from the administration in the thread where they appear that the statement could lead a Jew to feel put down.
Lou Pilder
Posted by alexandra_k on August 11, 2009, at 9:53:53
In reply to Re: vulnerable members, posted by Dr. Bob on August 11, 2009, at 3:27:00
> A decent community will be civil.Civil according to you and the rules you have for this site, or civil according to e.g., normative standards accepted by almost all???
Posted by Sigismund on August 11, 2009, at 20:29:37
In reply to Re: vulnerable members, posted by Dr. Bob on August 11, 2009, at 3:27:00
>One way of looking at it is that the most vulnerable members here are those who are unwilling or unable to be civil.
Vulnerable people might post in a risky way so as to promote either kindliness or rejection from others.
I've done that, anyway.
Posted by Sigismund on August 11, 2009, at 20:32:37
In reply to Re: vulnerable members, posted by Sigismund on August 11, 2009, at 20:29:37
>Vulnerable people might post in a risky way so as to promote either kindliness or rejection from others.
We're back to 'I have always depended on the kindness of strangers'.
Posted by alexandra_k on August 11, 2009, at 21:40:49
In reply to Re: vulnerable members, posted by Sigismund on August 11, 2009, at 20:32:37
> >Vulnerable people might post in a risky way so as to promote either kindliness or rejection from others.
They might. Or they might post in a 'risky' way (according to Bob) because they don't accept that Bob has some grip on objective facts about what constitutes civility or incivility. Or 'decency' for that matter...
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2009, at 6:51:13
In reply to Re: ridiculed and characterized as evil, posted by Dr. Bob on August 6, 2009, at 20:55:50
> > I do not see anything in my request that you cited that suggests that the poster in question could feel put down
>
> My concern wasn't about that poster, but others who might be listed, or worry about being listed -- including yourself.
>
> > You have directed an accusation toward me and I do not appreciate it. Blamimg me ... is causing me distress that I did not expect from a psychiatrist that invites his guests to be part of a supportive and safe environment.
> > What about my feelings?
>
> I'm sorry I caused you distress. It seems to me Scott tried to support you, and I appreciate that.
>
> > You are unwilling to post that antisemitic statements are uncivil in the following link.
>
> I can't undo the past. But I agree that anti-Semitic statements are uncivil. Have any been posted recently?
>
> > there could be the potential that I could become a target of ridicule, a scapegoat
>
> > Do you know what it feels like as a Jew to be characterized as evil in a mental health community and you allow it?
>
> How have you felt being ridiculed and characterized as evil?
>
> Has anybody else had experiences like that? Either here or elsewhere? Lou, I doubt you're alone.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...I can't undo the past...]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here by writing that to me.
To post in the thread where the statemnts in question can be seen that they are uncivil is the method that you use to quench the potential fire that could arise as per your philosophy that you do not want to wait to quench a fire on the grounds that even a small fire could escalate into an inferno. Since the statements in question are of the nature that you agree that they are uncivil, then without the quenching notation from you to that effect, there is the potential for the fire to spread.
As to if you did do that in the threads where the statements in question are, as to if that would {undo the past}, without your defining what you want to mean by that I can only speculate as to what your thinking could be.
The only thing that I can think of that could be related to your statement {undo the past}is that I saw a Superman movie many years ago and he turned back time and corrected the past in regards to an event with Lois Lane. The Superman fantasy was a literal undoing of the past.
If you are using the phrase as a figure of speech, I would need to know what you are wanting to mean by that in order to respond fully. But in my thinking, posting a qualifying statement as per your TOS here in the thread where the statements in question appear would be following your own TOS, for the time lapse between a statement from you there and the date that the statement was posted could show that you want to show that you presently want others to know that in your thinking the statements in question that you agree are uncivil are made known to readers as such. The aspect that you have posted here that you agree that the statemnts are uncivil, does not annul the fact that there is not a quenching of the potential fire in the thread where the staements can be seen that you agree that your philosophy is to not wait untill there is a forest fire to quech any potential flame.
The flame that I see is not a match, but a continuous flame that has the potential to spread hatred toward the Jews in other forums and other communities untill it is notated by you in the thread where it is posted. I see it as a billboard that is in the present, for the archives can be seen in the present even though the post was made previously to today. If we consider a hypothetical example of, let's say, a billboard with antisemitic statemnts on it made in 1939 somewhere, in your thinking, could a billboard with statemnts of the nature in question be either taken down or have a notation posted on it that the community does not accept what the statements purport or would you want it left to stand on the grounds that if it was notated, one could not undo the past?
Lou Pilder
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 23, 2009, at 8:41:56
In reply to Re: ridiculed and characterized as evil, posted by Dr. Bob on August 6, 2009, at 20:55:50
> > I do not see anything in my request that you cited that suggests that the poster in question could feel put down
>
> My concern wasn't about that poster, but others who might be listed, or worry about being listed -- including yourself.
>
> > You have directed an accusation toward me and I do not appreciate it. Blamimg me ... is causing me distress that I did not expect from a psychiatrist that invites his guests to be part of a supportive and safe environment.
> > What about my feelings?
>
> I'm sorry I caused you distress. It seems to me Scott tried to support you, and I appreciate that.
>
> > You are unwilling to post that antisemitic statements are uncivil in the following link.
>
> I can't undo the past. But I agree that anti-Semitic statements are uncivil. Have any been posted recently?
>
> > there could be the potential that I could become a target of ridicule, a scapegoat
>
> > Do you know what it feels like as a Jew to be characterized as evil in a mental health community and you allow it?
>
> How have you felt being ridiculed and characterized as evil?
>
> Has anybody else had experiences like that? Either here or elsewhere? Lou, I doubt you're alone.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
In regards to your question to me concerning as to if there have been posted antisemitic statements recently, the answer is yes.
I am asking at this point that we have dialog here concerning what you are wanting to mean by that you do what in your thinking will be good for the community as a whole and that others are to try and trust you and that you want to be fair.
Lou Pilder
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 28, 2009, at 10:37:48
In reply to Lou's reply concerning antisemitic statements » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on August 23, 2009, at 8:41:56
> In regards to your question to me concerning as to if there have been posted antisemitic statements recently, the answer is yes.
In that case, please notify us of them if you haven't already. I do consider anti-Semitic statements to be uncivil. Though reasonable people can disagree on whether a statement is anti-Semitic or not.
Bob
Posted by Sigismund on September 29, 2009, at 19:28:08
In reply to Re: Lou's reply, posted by Dr. Bob on September 28, 2009, at 10:37:48
'Islamofascism' seems to be OK here.
I'm less sure about 'Christianist'.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 30, 2009, at 5:25:00
In reply to Re: Lou's reply, posted by Dr. Bob on September 28, 2009, at 10:37:48
> > In regards to your question to me concerning as to if there have been posted antisemitic statements recently, the answer is yes.
>
> In that case, please notify us of them if you haven't already. I do consider anti-Semitic statements to be uncivil. Though reasonable people can disagree on whether a statement is anti-Semitic or not.
>
> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote,[...people can disagree on whether a statement is anti-Semitic or not...]
Have we not already agreed here as to what you consider to constitute a statement that is anti-Semitic? Is not the agreement that if a statement could lead a Jew to feel put down or accused it is considered by you an anti-Semitic statement?
Here a couple of links to posts that bring some of this out. I would also like the posts in the threads and the offered links in them to be explored.
Lou Pilder
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041218/msgs/439314.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090302/msgs/884526.html
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 3, 2009, at 10:57:41
In reply to Re: Lou's reply, posted by Sigismund on September 29, 2009, at 19:28:08
Sigusmund,
I read your post here but I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. What is your definition of Islamofascism?
B. What is involved in Christianist?
C. How is any of the above related to , if at all, what Mr. Hsiung has posted here that you responded to?
D. Could, in your opinion, concerning what constitutes what Mr. Hsiung has posted about that he agrees what is an anti-Semitic statement here (redacted by respondent)
Lou
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