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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 106 to 130 of 272. Go back in thread:
Posted by twinleaf on July 9, 2009, at 15:25:23
In reply to Re: trust » twinleaf, posted by fayeroe on July 9, 2009, at 9:48:44
I'm so glad you told me how it started for you here. I think it's very similar for lots of people- we hit a very hard place with medications or therapy, or life itself, and are so much in need of new answers and approaches that when we find a place like Babble, which has so much to offer, we don't notice the down sides, like the severe blocking policies, or the signing away of our rights to privacy. I'm just like you- I didn't really notice either.
Babble does have such a lot to offer. I do think that it's very possible that it will develop in positive ways- the severe blocking policies may be toned down to a reasonable and fair level, and the administration may develop an increased respect for the rights and privacy of the entire community. It could happen!
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2009, at 17:59:55
In reply to Re: trust » rskontos, posted by twinleaf on July 8, 2009, at 16:30:39
> Bob ... has demonstrated so little understanding of how important privacy is for us
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person, and I'm sorry if this hurts you. I do hope you choose to remain a member of this community and other community members help you, if needed, to avoid future blocks.
More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express oneself are in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
PS: According to the formula:
duration of previous block: 12 weeks
period of time since previous block: 7 weeks
severity: 2 (default)
block length = 19.66 rounded = 20 weeks
Posted by rskontos on July 10, 2009, at 1:06:49
In reply to Re: blocked for 20 weeks » twinleaf, posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2009, at 17:59:55
Ok Dr. Bob you have pissed me off for blocking Twinleaf. How is what she said "> Bob ... has demonstrated so little understanding of how important privacy is for us, offensive by anyone but you.
I remember so many times people actually cussed you and you did not block them. What changed. Did your skin thin out.
How can you block posters for saying things that are only directed to you, if you aren't a member of this site but the administrator.
I agree with her. I feel like the use of my words on twitter without my permission is wrong. I am feeling so badly now I am leaving.
I have never rec'd a PBC or a block. But now I don't really care what you do to me. Block me, because I erasing my bookmarks to this site and I am not going to help support a site that blocks for something I feel is a silly interpretation on your part. Not real uncivility on Twinleaf's part.
You know for a administrative you are showing a remarkedly hard heart in my view.
Now you can take this as an attack, but I feel like this is a complete waste of time. The traffic on psychology board is way off. I remember a time I could barely keep up with the new threads and posts. Now count the new ones. Very few.
And whose to blame. Look in the mirror.
And if you have read all my posts in the past I never get like this but I am feed up with all the cr@p going on.
I will leave my båbblemail on for a short time just so those I call friends can contact me for my real email address and then I will disable my entire account.
This is the final straw as far as i am concerned. This post is only intended for you Dr. Bob no one else should feel put down. You should not either you should take it for constructive criticism and learn that we are mentally needing support not you.
I could say the statement Twinleaf said to you to my p-doc, a Menniger trained psychiatrist and he would be ok with it and not feel put down. Why does it bother you so much.
..Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down...
Again the above referenced post by you, is that you are the only others that can feel put down.
I am sorry deputies if you must deal with this post because again it is intended for Dr. Bob only.
I will not read any of his responses because at this point I will he doesn't want to get us.
He makes me feel put down and under valued. I am not trying to make anyone feel accused or put down or undervalued, I am just tired of Dr. Bob making me and people I care about feel badly after expressing their views.
peace to all.
rsk
Man this gets me boiling.
Adios all.
**Disclaimer in the process of writing this post, it was not my intention to make anyone feel bad, just needed to say my piece, I have stayed quiet too long and tried to play nicely in the civility guidelines but I feel Dr. Bob is overreaching his authority. Dr. Bob I don't feel you are bad person just acting like a member here (and I don't think you really are or should be )who cannot begin to feel like us. Have you ever had therapy. Can you really relate to us.**
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 10, 2009, at 3:20:51
In reply to Re: blocked for 20 weeks » Dr. Bob, posted by rskontos on July 10, 2009, at 1:06:49
> I remember so many times people actually cussed you and you did not block them. What changed.
I've had second thoughts about having a double standard. For one thing, it's less inviting here if people are afraid of getting, as Seldom put it, a faceful of cat.
> I could say the statement Twinleaf said to you to my p-doc, a Menniger trained psychiatrist and he would be ok with it and not feel put down.
OK, but I'm not Twinleaf's p-doc.
Bob
Posted by Nadezda on July 10, 2009, at 8:46:29
In reply to Re: blocked for 20 weeks » Dr. Bob, posted by rskontos on July 10, 2009, at 1:06:49
Hi,rsk, I just wanted to say that I hope you reconsider.
For one thing, in leaving because Bob takes a certain action, you're in effect saying that Bob is more important to you than the relationships and exchanges with other people on the board. And I think that reverses the real significance of what's going on here. It's mostly other posters who make a personal investment in caring for and getting to know one another.
I always find it so hard to understand (although of course, I do understand how it happens) that posters would reject all of the rest of the otherse on Pbabble because Bob does this or that thing-- even things that we disagree with a lot.
I know he represents much more than he is personally-- but I hope you do reconsider. And I hope others do too.
You mention that traffic is down on the psych boards. But I think twitter was a way of communicating our valuable ideas (not violating privacy, or communicating our personal problems) to those who might be looking for some response to similar problems. And it might also bring those people, who use different media to interact (twitter, virtual realities, and other developments of cspace) to pbabble-- and add their insights and support to our community.
Maybe it wasn't a good idea-- I personally find it attractive, but I realize that many don't-- but it was done I believe with good intentions-- plus the desire to open up new platforms to us-- be a little inventive, try something new-- connect us to the larger world in a good way. Many took it otherwise.
But just as you would like Bob to reconsider his judgment about twinleaf and others-- and his system-- I guess I'd hope you and others might try, at least for a few minutes, thinking of Bob in a different light-- and seeing if his actions can't be seen as making sense, and possibly working for the good.
I do hope you reconsider and don't leave. If you do leave, I hope all goes well for you.
Nadezda
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 10, 2009, at 9:27:57
In reply to Re: sorry if you leave, rsk » rskontos, posted by Nadezda on July 10, 2009, at 8:46:29
> You mention that traffic is down on the psych boards. But I think twitter was a way of communicating our valuable ideas (not violating privacy, or communicating our personal problems) to those who might be looking for some response to similar problems. And it might also bring those people, who use different media to interact (twitter, virtual realities, and other developments of cspace) to pbabble-- and add their insights and support to our community.
>
> I personally find it attractive, but I realize that many don'tThere seems to be ambivalence about increased traffic. Newcomers might learn something private. They might not be trustworthy.
Bob
Posted by Timne on July 10, 2009, at 11:34:06
In reply to Re: people cussed you, posted by Dr. Bob on July 10, 2009, at 3:20:51
> > I remember so many times people actually cussed you and you did not block them. What changed.
>
> I've had second thoughts about having a double standard.Thank you for telling us that, in your best professional judgment, your first thoughts, which guided your actions for a period of several years, might have been inadequate to protect your invited guests from harm.
Now if your invited guests can only learn to anticipate what will be your thoughts tomorrow, based on mistakes you make today, they will have a chance of complying with expectations you define as "civil."
Posted by Sigismund on July 10, 2009, at 15:08:58
In reply to Re: people cussed you, posted by Timne on July 10, 2009, at 11:34:06
If the rules have served to alienate someone like Twinleaf something is wrong. All she did was post on a point of principle which, in one view at least, was supported by what Bob was doing with Twitter. There should be a way of allowing posts about principles while preventing personal attacks. I suppose there is nothing to say the rules have to always be consistent. But you only have to read rskontos's post to realise that the effect is not limited to Twinleaf.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 10, 2009, at 15:23:35
In reply to Re: people cussed you, posted by Sigismund on July 10, 2009, at 15:08:58
> If the rules have served to alienate someone like Twinleaf something is wrong. All she did was post on a point of principle which, in one view at least, was supported by what Bob was doing with Twitter. There should be a way of allowing posts about principles while preventing personal attacks.
I think there are ways. The poster could use I-statements, or at least not use you-statements. And (sorry to be a broken record) others who want them to remain in the community -- or want there to be fewer blocks in general -- could encourage them to rephrase.
Bob
Posted by Sigismund on July 10, 2009, at 15:30:20
In reply to Re: people cussed you, posted by Dr. Bob on July 10, 2009, at 15:23:35
>And (sorry to be a broken record) others who want them to remain in the community -- or want there to be fewer blocks in general -- could encourage them to rephrase.
I wasn't even aware that Twinleaf was at risk.
Would a please rephrase have alerted people who might have been able to help?
Posted by Kath on July 10, 2009, at 16:56:40
In reply to Re: blocked for 20 weeks » twinleaf, posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2009, at 17:59:55
> > Bob ... has demonstrated so little understanding of how important privacy is for us
> PS: According to the formula:
>
> duration of previous block: 12 weeks
> period of time since previous block: 7 weeks
> severity: 2 (default)
> block length = 19.66 rounded = 20 weeks~ ~ ~ Wow. 20 weeks for saying that!
I haven't paid much attention before to the length of blocks & the whole cumulative thing.
I have heard people saying that they think the blocks are too long.Math isn't my strong point. I would like to add my voice to those already spoken that I wonder if blocks are simply too long.
I do think that's the case here:
- a person had a 12 week block
- they had 7 weeks since then with no blocks
- they are now blocked for 20 weeks.Dr. Bob, since you're willing to look at the double standard thing (I assume this means that people can be blocked for stuff deemed negative to other posters AND to you)....since you're willing to look at changing your policy in this, I wonder if you would be willing to look at the length of blocks?
Unfortunately, I don't have the mental energy to look at FAQ's etc or try to get my head around formulas.
So I don't know if the added length of a block increases for each time a person is blocked.
I guess that would make sense to me.
Like - just a silly example, but for clarity:
- you swear once, you get 1 slap
- you swear twice, you get 2 slaps
- you swear three times, you get 4 slaps
- you swear four times, you get 8 slaps
- you swear five times, you get 16 slapsI am not sure if that's sort of how it works.
Anyway, for what twinleaf said, 20 weeks seems like one heck of a long block!!!! Yikerooooo!!!
Kath
Posted by Kath on July 10, 2009, at 17:06:29
In reply to Re: blocked for 20 weeks » twinleaf, posted by Dr. Bob on July 9, 2009, at 17:59:55
> > Bob ... has demonstrated so little understanding of how important privacy is for us
~ ~ ~ I keep trying to 'open' the post from twinleaf of July 8th that resulted in this block & it won't open????
I had wanted to read the whole post.
Wadup?
Kath
Posted by Sigismund on July 10, 2009, at 17:11:48
In reply to Re: blocked for 20 weeks/where's the post!!???, posted by Kath on July 10, 2009, at 17:06:29
I assume it's this, Kath
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090707/msgs/905631.html
Must have touched a nerve.
Posted by Sigismund on July 10, 2009, at 17:17:27
In reply to Re: trust » rskontos, posted by twinleaf on July 8, 2009, at 16:30:39
I mean I think it's that post.
But it's a strong opinion rather than an effort to denigrate or insult or be cruel.
Still, people were blocked on Politics for less than that.
Posted by Sigismund on July 10, 2009, at 17:23:20
In reply to Re: blocked for 20 weeks/where's the post!!???, posted by Kath on July 10, 2009, at 17:06:29
Now I can't get it up (so to speak) either.
Posted by Sigismund on July 10, 2009, at 17:24:17
In reply to Re: trust » rskontos, posted by twinleaf on July 8, 2009, at 16:30:39
Nothing to worry about.
Posted by Kath on July 10, 2009, at 17:58:47
In reply to Intermittent fault, posted by Sigismund on July 10, 2009, at 17:24:17
> Nothing to worry about.
Don't worry Siggi - I luv ya ALWAYS anyway!!!!
LOL
But it IS pretty weird that it has disappeared eh wot?
(throwing an old British 'Old Boys' Club' saying in there.) I seem to be in a wordy mood.
xoxo Kath
Posted by Kath on July 10, 2009, at 18:00:04
In reply to Re: Intermittent fault » Sigismund, posted by Kath on July 10, 2009, at 17:58:47
> (throwing an old British 'Old Boys' Club' saying in there.) I seem to be in a wordy mood.
>
> xoxo Kath~ ~ PS - not to be paranoid or anything - I understand there to be a saying 'Old Boys' Club' - I am in no way making a negative comment on age!
;-)
Posted by rskontos on July 11, 2009, at 0:30:33
In reply to Re: people cussed you, posted by Dr. Bob on July 10, 2009, at 15:23:35
>>>
I think there are ways. The poster could use I-statements, or at least not use you-statements. And (sorry to be a broken record) others who want them to remain in the community -- or want there to be fewer blocks in general -- could encourage them to rephrase.>>>I saw nothing for her to rephrase, it seems to me only you did. Maybe you should have asked her to rephrase, no double standards right?
rsk
and I told myself I wasn't going to continue to engage you Dr. Bob because I feel you seem to be unable to see my points.
Posted by rskontos on July 11, 2009, at 0:41:12
In reply to Re: people cussed you, posted by Dr. Bob on July 10, 2009, at 3:20:51
> > I remember so many times people actually cussed you and you did not block them. What changed.
>
> I've had second thoughts about having a double standard. For one thing, it's less inviting here if people are afraid of getting, as Seldom put it, a faceful of cat.***People are already getting a face of cat as you quote by being blocked for things I feel are just not warrantive of a block.
>
> > I could say the statement Twinleaf said to you to my p-doc, a Menniger trained psychiatrist and he would be ok with it and not feel put down.
>
> OK, but I'm not Twinleaf's p-doc.
>
> BobI feel for that she is glad. But that again, was not the point. I know you are not her p-doc, the point in case you did not understand me is I feel that your feeling put down should have been something in training you learned to deal with and having a mental health site you would recognize will happen from time to time and most administrators of anything whether it is a website or business etc will feel put down or even hurt but need to for harmony and getting along with others overlook and rise above it. Not join the fray.
But wouldn't have been nice that you advised us the you were re-thinking what I feel is a so called double standard(meaning I don't really agree with it was a double standard), yet you did not. You just acted.
Enough of this. I feel you will never get my point and I now feel like my head hurts from beating against a brick wall.
rsk
Posted by rskontos on July 11, 2009, at 0:54:50
In reply to Re: trust » rskontos, posted by twinleaf on July 8, 2009, at 16:30:39
You are welcome. And I am sorry he blocked you for stating your opinion.
rsk
i feel the same way about my privacy. And if I want it out there I want to be the one to do it.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 11, 2009, at 11:41:13
In reply to Re: people cussed you » Dr. Bob, posted by rskontos on July 11, 2009, at 0:41:12
> I wasn't even aware that Twinleaf was at risk.
>
> Would a please rephrase have alerted people who might have been able to help?
>
> SigismundIt might have. But people read her posts and know the guidelines, so is that necessary?
--
> Math isn't my strong point. I would like to add my voice to those already spoken that I wonder if blocks are simply too long.
> I do think that's the case here:
> - a person had a 12 week block
> - they had 7 weeks since then with no blocks
> - they are now blocked for 20 weeks.
>
> So I don't know if the added length of a block increases for each time a person is blocked.
> I guess that would make sense to me.
> Like - just a silly example, but for clarity:
> - you swear once, you get 1 slap
> - you swear twice, you get 2 slaps
> - you swear three times, you get 4 slaps
> - you swear four times, you get 8 slaps
> - you swear five times, you get 16 slaps
>
> I am not sure if that's sort of how it works.
>
> KathThat's the general idea, though of course I don't think of blocks as slaps, though of course they may be experienced that way.
She had gotten up to 12 weeks, so the next step would've been 24 weeks, but it was reduced to 20 weeks because of her 7 weeks of "good behavior".
--
> People are already getting a face of cat as you quote by being blocked for things I feel are just not warrantive of a block.
That's a really interesting point, some people seem to be more willing to risk a faceful of me than a faceful of other posters.
> I know you are not her p-doc, the point in case you did not understand me is I feel that your feeling put down should have been something in training you learned to deal with and having a mental health site you would recognize will happen from time to time and most administrators of anything whether it is a website or business etc will feel put down or even hurt but need to for harmony and getting along with others overlook and rise above it.
I think my training may have been a factor in that double standard. Administrators may appreciate the need for harmony and be more willing than p-docs to have customers escorted out.
> But wouldn't have been nice that you advised us the you were re-thinking what I feel is a so called double standard(meaning I don't really agree with it was a double standard), yet you did not. You just acted.
>
> rskI didn't make an announcement, but I've been moving in this direction since at least:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20090302/msgs/889029.html
Bob
Posted by rskontos on July 11, 2009, at 12:14:03
In reply to Re: people cussed you, posted by Dr. Bob on July 11, 2009, at 11:41:13
..I think my training may have been a factor in that double standard.
How is that? I don't get your meaning now.
..Administrators may appreciate the need for harmony and be more willing than p-docs to have customers escorted out.>>
Again, I fail to understand your logic in this statement. Can you elaborate?
Did you open this site to get good feelings from? And how over the years did your double standard become something that needed overhauling. If you are doing away with the double standard in regards to you, can we block you when you say things that offend us?
rsk
Posted by muffled on July 12, 2009, at 20:23:36
In reply to Re: people cussed you » Dr. Bob, posted by rskontos on July 11, 2009, at 12:14:03
For trying.
But beware, cuz Bob'll just make ya nuts.
I think mebbe he means well, just, well....he's Bob....
Take care,
M
Posted by HyperFocus on July 14, 2009, at 0:39:57
In reply to Re: people cussed you » Dr. Bob, posted by rskontos on July 11, 2009, at 12:14:03
>Thanks so much for understanding, rsk. In the past, I have posted a lot of quite personal things here, and loss of privacy is really a worry to me. Needless to say, I won't be doing that anymore in the future. It just seems odd to me that Bob, who as a psychiatrist is presumably very well educated about privacy issues, has demonstrated so little understanding of how important privacy is for us- both for our emotional safety and well-being, and, in some instances, for our jobs. I personally think it would be much more professional if posters were given the choice of "opting-in" to Twitter.
There is nothing in the above post that is uncivil. Twinleaf was saying that choosing to twitter posts means you do not have an understanding of how important privacy is for posters. That is not uncivil. That is civil criticism.
You blocked twinleaf for 20 weeks without warrant and without warning. You did not give her a PBC or a chance to rephrase. You did not even give other posters a chance to help her with whatever she is supposed to have said. You chose to change your blocking policy without warning - is that really fair? The worst thing is that you blocked her this away after she has written how much these long blocks hurt her.
Posters have to agree to terms of service here. You also have a contract with us in that you do not punish posters for no reason. If you can't follow this then you should include in your TOS something like "posters agree I have the power to block them for months without warning and without reason."
Nobody on PB is perfect, far from it. We all make mistakes and you have made a very grave one. I'm asking that you do the right thing and unblock twinleaf and apologize to her.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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