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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on June 18, 2009, at 16:45:51
Saying that I am confused as to why someone is posting is not the same as saying they should leave. I cannot help if a person leaps to that conclusion, but I want to apologize to you for the hurt I heard expressed in your post as I result of what I said. Please note that I said in another post that the reason I was not sure why she was posting was b/c this is a peer board, and it sounded like (from the posts that I have read) that she was acting as a therapist in her posts to Deneb and acting as an expert in her post w/me (with the tone of voice that implies). I think that IS confusing to some people who expect a peer interaction, not therapy. I think that on a board where people have experienced a lot of loose/squishy boundaries in their lives, they should be able to expect that a peer support board will be about peer support.
I also think that sometimes people get a kick out of showing how smart they are.
So my confusion is this: on a peer support board, why talk about one's credentials as a therapist, and then proceed to tell Deneb that she is displaying the behaviors (threatening suicide) of someone with a personality disorder (BPD), and then track down all her posts and link to them when the person resists that interpretation (as is reasonable to do--that's why therapy doesn't happen in a single session, or a single post, and why therapists should not challenge their clients without also giving them support and encouragement).
Should I have posted this to admin? I don't know. It didn't seem that big of a deal at the time. Just a line written in a post...and then in another post, my explanation, and a very clear and distinct clarification, in which I said, no, I wasn't saying I thought you should leave.
Posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on June 18, 2009, at 16:45:51
In reply to Nadezda, posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on June 18, 2009, at 12:20:06
I should more carefully word my posts. I do think that sometimes people get a kick out of how smart they are (I am proud of my education), and sometimes that is the motivation for posting. But while the thought crossed my mind about Birdsong's posts, at least and especially her post to me, I am NOT really NOT accusing her of doing that (my feeling does not equal her action). But it enters my mind when someone writes a post like the one she wrote to me. And as a peer who also needs peer support, that approach is confusing to me. I don't think it needs to be policed. But that doesn't mean I don't have a right to note that. Anyway, I should have articulated what I meant much better than to throw that line out and not clarify. It sounds as though I am accusing her of being a smarty-pants in general. When really that's just how I felt in her post to me.
> Saying that I am confused as to why someone is posting is not the same as saying they should leave. I cannot help if a person leaps to that conclusion, but I want to apologize to you for the hurt I heard expressed in your post as I result of what I said. Please note that I said in another post that the reason I was not sure why she was posting was b/c this is a peer board, and it sounded like (from the posts that I have read) that she was acting as a therapist in her posts to Deneb and acting as an expert in her post w/me (with the tone of voice that implies). I think that IS confusing to some people who expect a peer interaction, not therapy. I think that on a board where people have experienced a lot of loose/squishy boundaries in their lives, they should be able to expect that a peer support board will be about peer support.
>
> I also think that sometimes people get a kick out of showing how smart they are.
>
> So my confusion is this: on a peer support board, why talk about one's credentials as a therapist, and then proceed to tell Deneb that she is displaying the behaviors (threatening suicide) of someone with a personality disorder (BPD), and then track down all her posts and link to them when the person resists that interpretation (as is reasonable to do--that's why therapy doesn't happen in a single session, or a single post, and why therapists should not challenge their clients without also giving them support and encouragement).
>
> Should I have posted this to admin? I don't know. It didn't seem that big of a deal at the time. Just a line written in a post...and then in another post, my explanation, and a very clear and distinct clarification, in which I said, no, I wasn't saying I thought you should leave.
>
>
Posted by SLS on June 18, 2009, at 16:45:51
In reply to oops...please read this too, posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on June 18, 2009, at 12:31:18
I don't want you to leave, either.
- Scott
Posted by BirdSong on June 18, 2009, at 16:45:51
In reply to Nadezda, posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on June 18, 2009, at 12:20:06
Since this is a post about me I have the right to respond. I never mentioned my credentials at all until you mentioned your PhD in English and MA in Counseling Psychology, in the post to Garnet. In fact, no-one knew what I do, although I mentioned I worked with teens in DBT in the previous DBT posts.
Additionally, my very first post here was about an issue I was having with my T and my reaction to it. Very much a client reaction. Ironically you responded.
My posts to Deneb began because (a) there have been times on public forums where those types of interactions have resulted in police being called by others, which means that social services and FBI (internet) show up at their home after tracking IP addresses to ensure that the person is getting help (this happened to a client and it was a mess for that person) and (b) to point out that , while she claimed that she in not threatening suicide, there is a clear cycle of abandonment/rejection/spiral/punishment which was utilizing suicide which she denied, but her posts show otherwise; and is supported here which promotes it, and (c) to be clear that those behaviors can be helped by alternative therapies. It had NOTHING to do with being a "smarty-pants", but everything to do with the fact that something could be helpful in bringing an ADULT out of the pattern of behavior that would improve her quality of life. As one other member said there is a difference between support and enabling. Sometimes a "wake-up and look at your actions" helps opens ones eyes.
Now....where I crossed paths with you:
My post to Garnet was based on both her earlier posts about her experience in beginning psychodyanmic therapy and personal mail I had with her regarding her type of therapy and what was occurring in her therapy. That is peer support. I am not sure how peer support is telling her to do another therapy mode when she has claimed that her recent therapy has given her more insight in 45 minutes than the other therapists she has seen. I was supporting her attempt to continue to work in the psychodynamic mode, while you were expressing your opinion and telling her to run away from it...(which is fine, but if you relook at my posts, they are supportive of her experience, her type of therapy and also the decision her pdoc made for her).....you can tell others your opinion, but there are clearly excellent uses of psychodynamic therapy. For example: Columbia University had an entire program dedicated to training T's and pdocs in object relations therapy for BPD and other PDs. The program has graduated some excellent psychodynamic Ts and the hospital was been known for years because of the program. For individuals with DID or fragmented selves, ego-states can be a great method for reaching the selves. Even the newer and "unique" methods for DID discuss the importance of ego-states therapy.
The reason so many here are in psychodynamic therapy is because it has some great uses, for the right client and with the right and correctly trained T.
The unfortunate thing about this entire issue, is that I think you and I agree that "alternative" therapy methods are extremely valuable.
Posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on June 18, 2009, at 16:45:51
In reply to Re: Nadezda, posted by BirdSong on June 18, 2009, at 14:41:56
Birdsong, you have every right to respond to a post I wrote about you.
I don't know how to respond, though, without it seeming further like I am attacking you, so I am going to just let this sit for awhile, and not respond for a few days. This is not to ignore you, or to seem invalidating. I just cannot respond without a "you said, I said" type of email. I can't respond without pointing out this or that about this or that post, and that just would make this go on and on.
Do PLEASE reread my posts. I took great pains to point out that I momentarily felt you were being a smarty pants in your post to ME, not to DENEB.
You're right, of course, that my feedback to garnet may not seem supportive. But I have interacted with garnet more than anyone else except d/r, and I really, really appreciate her. She seemed to be in a lot of pain as a result of this interaction, despite her initial joy; and what I have been reading here, and most of what I have heard elsewhere, has not been positive in regards to pyschodynamic therapy.
To say to someone "run away from this" is a challenge. Challenges *are* a form of support. In DBT, at least in the way that one of the best in my metro area do it, support and challenges go hand and hand.
Okay. Now I am defending myself. I want to break this cycle between us.
So I'm going to end here and take a few days' break.
> Since this is a post about me I have the right to respond. I never mentioned my credentials at all until you mentioned your PhD in English and MA in Counseling Psychology, in the post to Garnet. In fact, no-one knew what I do, although I mentioned I worked with teens in DBT in the previous DBT posts.
>
> Additionally, my very first post here was about an issue I was having with my T and my reaction to it. Very much a client reaction. Ironically you responded.
>
> My posts to Deneb began because (a) there have been times on public forums where those types of interactions have resulted in police being called by others, which means that social services and FBI (internet) show up at their home after tracking IP addresses to ensure that the person is getting help (this happened to a client and it was a mess for that person) and (b) to point out that , while she claimed that she in not threatening suicide, there is a clear cycle of abandonment/rejection/spiral/punishment which was utilizing suicide which she denied, but her posts show otherwise; and is supported here which promotes it, and (c) to be clear that those behaviors can be helped by alternative therapies. It had NOTHING to do with being a "smarty-pants", but everything to do with the fact that something could be helpful in bringing an ADULT out of the pattern of behavior that would improve her quality of life. As one other member said there is a difference between support and enabling. Sometimes a "wake-up and look at your actions" helps opens ones eyes.
>
> Now....where I crossed paths with you:
> My post to Garnet was based on both her earlier posts about her experience in beginning psychodyanmic therapy and personal mail I had with her regarding her type of therapy and what was occurring in her therapy. That is peer support. I am not sure how peer support is telling her to do another therapy mode when she has claimed that her recent therapy has given her more insight in 45 minutes than the other therapists she has seen. I was supporting her attempt to continue to work in the psychodynamic mode, while you were expressing your opinion and telling her to run away from it...(which is fine, but if you relook at my posts, they are supportive of her experience, her type of therapy and also the decision her pdoc made for her)
>
> .....you can tell others your opinion, but there are clearly excellent uses of psychodynamic therapy. For example: Columbia University had an entire program dedicated to training T's and pdocs in object relations therapy for BPD and other PDs. The program has graduated some excellent psychodynamic Ts and the hospital was been known for years because of the program. For individuals with DID or fragmented selves, ego-states can be a great method for reaching the selves. Even the newer and "unique" methods for DID discuss the importance of ego-states therapy.
>
> The reason so many here are in psychodynamic therapy is because it has some great uses, for the right client and with the right and correctly trained T.
>
> The unfortunate thing about this entire issue, is that I think you and I agree that "alternative" therapy methods are extremely valuable.
>
>
>
Posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on June 18, 2009, at 16:45:51
In reply to Re: oops...please read this too » Amelia_in_StPaul, posted by SLS on June 18, 2009, at 13:15:08
gosh, thank you. I really appreciate it. hugs, Amelia
> I don't want you to leave, either.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Deputy Dinah on June 18, 2009, at 16:45:52
In reply to Re: Nadezda » BirdSong, posted by Amelia_in_StPaul on June 18, 2009, at 15:02:34
> I took great pains to point out that I momentarily felt you were being a smarty pants in your post to ME, not to DENEB.
> Challenges *are* a form of support.
I'd like to clarify board policy.
Dr. Bob asks that we not post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, even if the intent is to be supportive. Challenges are a form of support, but not all forms of support fit well with site civility guidelines. Dr. Bob is aware of this.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by Deputy Dinah on June 18, 2009, at 16:45:52
In reply to Re: Nadezda, posted by BirdSong on June 18, 2009, at 14:41:56
> (b) to point out that , while she claimed that she in not threatening suicide, there is a clear cycle of abandonment/rejection/spiral/punishment which was utilizing suicide which she denied, but her posts show otherwise; and is supported here which promotes it,
> Sometimes a "wake-up and look at your actions" helps opens ones eyes.
I'd like to clarify board policy.
Dr. Bob asks that we not post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, even if the intent is to be supportive. Any efforts to give wake up calls need to fit within the civility guidelines of the site.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by Phillipa on June 19, 2009, at 13:32:39
In reply to Please follow site guidelines » BirdSong, posted by Deputy Dinah on June 18, 2009, at 16:45:52
Everyone please stay. Love Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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