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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 31 to 55 of 304. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on April 6, 2009, at 20:39:46
In reply to Shaming the Poster » JadeKelly, posted by verne on April 6, 2009, at 20:19:08
Since some are new posters and may not frequent this board it has been discussed various time by blocked posters and others when they come back. They the posters have asked how to avoid this again in the future. A Civility buddy was suggested and many liked this. Someone to help interpret the rules. I'd be more than willing to Be Jade's civility buddy. Yes We did make up on our own and agree since some don't read board daily give a bit of time for the cooling down period and see what happens. Also I don't feel that Dr. Bob is asking for an apology to him but the those who might have been offended. If I'm wrong Dr Bob will post this. I'd also like to see Jade stay. She can be funny and whitty. We all have good and bad days. I used to be amazed at how we ended up apologizing or rewording things to each other on the meds board. This was before the notification system and sometimes no one saw the post til the posters had apologized so no one ended up being blocke. So if notification button used maybe write is there a way for you two to work things out first? So hard to write correctly. Love Phillipa
Posted by verne on April 6, 2009, at 20:43:26
In reply to Re: No please read, posted by Phillipa on April 6, 2009, at 20:39:46
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 6, 2009, at 22:12:39
In reply to xox 4 being true to yourselves and others-jade n' (nm) » verne, posted by zenhussy on April 6, 2009, at 20:37:06
> We could avoid a lot of blocks here if people would quit 'telling on' one another; in other words, if you feel hurt or slighted - maybe just let the perceived insulter know right away rather than hitting that notify adminstrator button.
As long as you let them know in a civil way...
> ~We need to initiate a shift in Dr. Bob's mind~
>
> Bob-there is just toooo much intelluctual capacity and information out there - and the rate of information change to keep up with - for any TOP DOWN organizations to survive..in the near future.Focusing on me is itself top-down...
> How about make that a rule - let the posters resolve the problem on thier own, and if that doesn't work - then do your administrative stuff.
>
> Garnet71It seems not to be working this time...
> The community is being asked to find ways to "encourage" you to apologize. That sounds like public SHAMING, remninsicent of the Puritan stocks.
>
> Verne> xox 4 being true to yourselves and others
>
> zenhussyAnd it seems one reason posters may not resolve problems on their own is that apologizing may be seen as shameful or not being true to oneself.
Which means being blocked may be seen as a sign of being true to oneself and something to feel proud of. I guess it's not surprising if posters don't readily let go of something that makes them feel good.
So no one's going to try to help Jade and now Verne avoid being blocked? Because that wouldn't feel supportive?
Bob
--
> I would ... say he's got a big ego and a raging inferority complex, along with a tiny heart and shriveled soul.
>
> Sadly, an egocentric weasel has been running this site and abusing posters for years. Sometimes with tragic results.
>
> Verne
Posted by Sigismund on April 6, 2009, at 22:33:38
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by Dr. Bob on April 6, 2009, at 22:12:39
>So no one's going to try to help Jade and now Verne avoid being blocked? Because that wouldn't feel supportive?
I doubt that it is quite like that. This debate has become divisive. The point at which it did so was perhaps when those ill-judged psychotherapeutic type comments were taken badly. A lot of what you otherwise said made sense.... 'Be the change you want to see' and so on.
Posted by zenhussy on April 6, 2009, at 22:42:20
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by Dr. Bob on April 6, 2009, at 22:12:39
>>>I guess it's not surprising if posters don't readily let go of something that makes them feel good.<<<
Maybe it's not surprising if administrators don't readily let go of something that makes them feel good?
>>>So no one's going to try to help Jade and now Verne avoid being blocked? Because that wouldn't feel supportive?
Bob<<<
So no one's going to try to help Dr. Bob avoid being [....]? Because that wouldn't feel supportive?
Posted by myco on April 6, 2009, at 23:20:44
In reply to Blocks, posted by verne on April 3, 2009, at 3:13:38
This is become worn out. *wonders how long such battle has been raging on this board and in the minds of those here for ages* This is a very old issue i'm guessing based on the passion in which some people express themselves with...there seems to be no passion from admin side at all...why I dont know.
Seems also that it's getting nowhere. An exercise in futility. Admin seems to just turn things right back around - attempting to match anything said by posters on the opposing side. Like a chess game but in a perpetual state of stalemate.
I do wonder if this is not a game from the admin side as it seems to be from one perspective. Questions are only responded to in part and presented, often, in such a way as to show vagueness or to counteract anything said in argument. Nothing has been accomplished here at all and something tells me nothing will. It seems logic is only comming from the posters side...issues need to be properly addressed to solve this and their needs to be a "settlement" based on negotiation.
In then end this middle ground is not going to be achieved. Remember this site is a "study" folks...an exercise for Bob in his academic life. I don't quite know how it fits into academics but I know he teaches or talks on this very subject...the internet and its use for therapy etc. So it is totally reasonable to think that there are "games" being played here. We are, by the way - to some extent, being observed here. How can you not see that? This whole site is designed as a tool...we are the pieces on the board of the game...the pawns, the rooks, the kings and queens.
Posted by Sigismund on April 6, 2009, at 23:26:14
In reply to Re: an opportunity » Dr. Bob, posted by zenhussy on April 6, 2009, at 22:42:20
I'd hazard a guess that Bob feels somewhat badly about the decline in attendance at Babble and that was part of why the blocking system changed for the better (with the exception of Zazenducke).
I also think he has benign intentions.
He's just a bloke with a website who gets his ideas about social control from places not terribly familiar to me, maybe the US justice system, or some Uni of Chicago paradigm.
I think it would have been better for Babble as a whole if the question of blocks had not become an issue, which might have been achievable with blocks of around a month, maximum.
But we shall never know.I don't think we should make demons of each other.
Bob may have used a couple of phrases infelicitously.
Jade and Verne became angry.
No one is going to apologise freely if they are grabbed by the scruff of the neck and told to do so.
Posted by Sigismund on April 6, 2009, at 23:28:04
In reply to Re: Blocks » verne, posted by myco on April 6, 2009, at 23:20:44
>there seems to be no passion from admin side at all
That's not how it feels to me, but hell, I'm quite often wrong.
Posted by Sigismund on April 6, 2009, at 23:32:03
In reply to Re: Blocks » myco, posted by Sigismund on April 6, 2009, at 23:28:04
I had this in mind....
>I see continuing to check back as a sign that you see change as possible. Could I suggest that you be the change you wish to see? That would take more than coming by every month or month and a half, though.
>Bob
And why shouldn't he care?
Not that I would expect him to abandon a sort of psychiatric reserve.
Posted by myco on April 6, 2009, at 23:38:48
In reply to Re: Blocks » myco, posted by Sigismund on April 6, 2009, at 23:28:04
I dont sig...when a question is asked...admin has a tendency to only address certain aspects of that question, leaving others totally untouched. Answers are often presented back in such a way as to turn the question right back around. What I mean is no passion in feeling...no passion in presented a well thought out clear/concise answer that makes ground towards an end point. It's a merry-go-round. Thats what I meant...posters present this passion...you can see their personality in their text...wanting to be addressed. Responce at times is a mere sluff off it seems.
> >there seems to be no passion from admin side at all
>
> That's not how it feels to me, but hell, I'm quite often wrong.
Posted by Sigismund on April 6, 2009, at 23:41:07
In reply to Re: Blocks » Sigismund, posted by myco on April 6, 2009, at 23:38:48
>Answers are often presented back in such a way as to turn the question right back around.
Yes
>What I mean is no passion in feeling...no passion in presented a well thought out clear/concise answer that makes ground towards an end point. It's a merry-go-round.
Yes
>Thats what I meant...posters present this passion...you can see their personality in their text...wanting to be addressed. Responce at times is a mere sluff off it seems.
Fair point.
Posted by myco on April 6, 2009, at 23:42:32
In reply to Re: Blocks » myco, posted by Sigismund on April 6, 2009, at 23:41:07
lol ok
> >Answers are often presented back in such a way as to turn the question right back around.
>
> Yes
>
> >What I mean is no passion in feeling...no passion in presented a well thought out clear/concise answer that makes ground towards an end point. It's a merry-go-round.
>
> Yes
>
> >Thats what I meant...posters present this passion...you can see their personality in their text...wanting to be addressed. Responce at times is a mere sluff off it seems.
>
> Fair point.
Posted by Sigismund on April 6, 2009, at 23:44:10
In reply to Re: Blocks » myco, posted by Sigismund on April 6, 2009, at 23:41:07
And yet when Bob blocked Zazenducke he appeared on that thread subsequent to the block something like 15 times.
That showed me he cared, about what I'm not entirely clear.
Posted by Sigismund on April 7, 2009, at 0:34:58
In reply to Re: Blocks, posted by Sigismund on April 6, 2009, at 23:44:10
>he appeared on that thread subsequent to the block something like 15 times.
Might have been 10.
Posted by myco on April 7, 2009, at 0:40:29
In reply to Re: Blocks, posted by Sigismund on April 7, 2009, at 0:34:58
I dunno...i'm new here...I dont know who that is or in what context that issue is from. I just know it's obvious things need a change. There needs to be middle ground for admin and posters to meet at. It's healthy to be able to obtain a compromise and tiring to see back and forth. Some issues are easily solved...logical issues. Anyway...i've added more than my two cents here. I'm done with the debate now.
> >he appeared on that thread subsequent to the block something like 15 times.
>
> Might have been 10.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 7, 2009, at 1:23:26
In reply to Re: an opportunity » Dr. Bob, posted by zenhussy on April 6, 2009, at 22:42:20
> Maybe it's not surprising if administrators don't readily let go of something that makes them feel good?
Maybe posters want me to feel good and that's why they're not trying to help their fellow posters avoid being blocked? But if blocking people really made me feel good, I would've blocked them already.
Maybe myco's right and we'll never reach a middle ground. OTOH, change is slow.
Bob
Posted by verne on April 7, 2009, at 1:54:08
In reply to Re: Blocks » Sigismund, posted by myco on April 7, 2009, at 0:40:29
You say, "maybe posters want me to "feel good". Previously, you said that some frustrated posters were "longing" for you.
Posters want to make you "feel good"? That they long for you?
What more can be said? Go "bridge over the river Kwai" and deny the truth and block everyone?
I wish you well, King Rat.
(before you block me forever, at least see the movie: if you aren't "King Rat", I'll never come back.)
Posted by seldomseen on April 7, 2009, at 8:05:29
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by Dr. Bob on April 7, 2009, at 1:23:26
My babblemail is on, and if anyone wants to email me with a post, I'll do my best.
I promise that I will not attempt to censor the post in any way, but rather try to help the poster communicate what they want to say.
IMO asking for help or being offered help is not shameful.
I don't know if anyone wants my help, but it is available.
Seldom.
Posted by garnet71 on April 7, 2009, at 9:27:16
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by Dr. Bob on April 6, 2009, at 22:12:39
> Focusing on me is itself top-down...
That's the point - it doesn't appear anyone wants to focus on you. Bottom up would entail members' creation of content and rules. That's partly what members here are trying to do.
> It seems not to be working this time...
Of course its not going to work in this context-members are not going to police themselves using mob mentality tactics at your "direction". Applying more subtle, community-based 'keeping people in line' natural group mores to resolve future situations could very well work; but in this case--the situations are already tainted. And low morale is contagious-but you would know the dynamics of organizational psychology.
> So no one's going to try to help Jade and now Verne avoid being blocked? Because that wouldn't feel supportive?
Again, this approach wouldn't be effective in this context. See paragraph above.
How about letting members resolve the issues on our own (w/o being coerced by Administrators) unless intervention is necessary, rather than immediately blocking members for perceived insults, etc.?
Jade and Jan/Phillipa did just that; unfortunately, you lost a supportive member from the blocking (Jade). Blocking Jade did not resolve the situation - the 2 members resolved the situation w/o 'direction' from administrators. We are all adults here. I also think blocking would cause people to be less likely to want to resolve the issue with the other person with whom they had conlict with, as opposed to having forum access where they can discuss the situation, interact about the situation, hear other community members opinions on the situation, apologize if necessary, and resolve the situation, in the open, on the forum.
I personally don't even care because the way I see it - if I don't want to use this forum, I can just go somewhere else...But what bothers me is seeing others hurt, and it sux to lose good members who have provided experienced advice and support.
Posted by garnet71 on April 7, 2009, at 9:33:29
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by garnet71 on April 7, 2009, at 9:27:16
Posted by fayeroe on April 7, 2009, at 10:05:37
In reply to Re: Blocks » verne, posted by myco on April 6, 2009, at 23:20:44
You sure hit the nail on the head......I believe that playing with the poster's emotions has a huge payoff for the administration. Been that way forever.
Wait until Bob really gets his groove on...he answers all the questions with questions. You ain't seen nothing til you see him work that one to death.
Posted by fayeroe on April 7, 2009, at 11:24:24
In reply to Re: Blocks, posted by verne on April 7, 2009, at 1:54:08
> You say, "maybe posters want me to "feel good". Previously, you said that some frustrated posters were "longing" for you.
The first thing I thought of when I saw the "longing" post was "how over the line is that?" and the next was "what has he been smoking?"
I guess Bob is lonely.
>
> Posters want to make you "feel good"? That they long for you?
>
> What more can be said? Go "bridge over the river Kwai" and deny the truth and block everyone?
>
> I wish you well, King Rat.
>
> (before you block me forever, at least see the movie: if you aren't "King Rat", I'll never come back.)
>
>
Posted by JadeKelly on April 7, 2009, at 13:49:34
In reply to Re: an opportunity, posted by Dr. Bob on April 7, 2009, at 1:23:26
Bob, clearly from the statements below you need to cut some apron strings. Posters are not here to "make you feel good" or "long for you".
>
> "Maybe posters want me to feel good and that's why they're not trying to help their fellow posters avoid being blocked? But if blocking people really made me feel good, I would've blocked them already." *Now you're shaming them?*For one, were not used to being in an environment where we can help our fellow poster. Its called a block, Bob. And two, did you hear us tell them NOT to help us? I like help when its freely given.
**************************************************
>
" we'll never reach a middle ground. OTOH, change is slow" Bob
**************************************************I DO NOT EXCEPT THAT ANY MORE AND NIETHER WILL THEY. STOP ALREADY, BOB. STOP. ITS TIME. TAKE A LEAP OF FAITH, YOU CAN DO IT.
No More Bob,
Its time. And you know it. This has become abusive on this Admin board and it needs to stop.
THE NEW RULE BOOK
Can we get this out to at least one or two key posters on each board (active on that board)??
This draft will be reviewed by the posters AS/IS and a rough draft that Posters will polish into a final draft will be given to you when they are done. Unless there is some fatal flaw in their new policies and rules "book", No Changes By You.
Okay, here is what we want. I don't think I've seen that yet. No more questions from you Bob, the deputies can take a break from all they do. And stand by for real emergencies.Whats been missing is a formal list of new policies that posters are willing to follow. Bottom up Bob. Are you enlightened enough to give this a try for two months? Three if its going well? No more talking. This is going to happen.
As soon as Garnet or Fay or Sigismund or whoever has time, they can run it by the posters, I'll email everyone I know, as a rough draft that they, posters, will polish into a final draft.
Okay, here is what we want. I don't think I've seen that yet. But I've sure been hearing it. The boards will get together, come up with new rules they are willing to follow, and here they are. I'm just giving this as an example.1. No Blocks unless someone has been warned by a mini deputy on their board and the behavior is so out of line he/she needs a week off. This will be held for extreme cases.
2. Blocks will no longer last more than one week.
Anyone currently over a week is back now.3. No notify button. Posters are voted in to be mini deputies of their board. You'll call (Admin) if you need them for an emergency. Still no blocks longer than a week.
4. All this crazy punishing for how posters word something will end. Unless someone's getting cussed out or humiliated, You can talk to each other like adults, and take a break from that person if mini dep says so. Then make them talk about it, when they cool down. They both take 15 min off maybe.
Bob, its time you show some respect and confidence in your posters. They are quite capable of doing this as we've learned the last two weeks. Unless you just enjoy blocking and controlling people,
What do you have to lose?? So lets start with those posters. Sigismund is really looking forward to having Zazenducke back. Along with anyone over a week.
Thanks Bob ;-)
Your a gentlemen and a scholar!Y
Posted by myco on April 7, 2009, at 14:11:55
In reply to Re: Blocks, posted by fayeroe on April 7, 2009, at 11:24:24
It is unfortunate here but I think this debate/issue, as tough as this sounds, should just be put aside...put away for now. You're providing him with endless entertainment you know. He can practice little tricks etc to get people riled up and see what he can get them to do or how they might react...in a way manipulate posters here for some purpose...perhaps just jollies or perhaps theres a plan. I dont know, I dont care either. Please dont give admin the satisfaction people. We, after all, do have the right to not use this board. I know it helps alot of people who need a "base" but there are other more friendly boards out there that arent used as a tool for someone to gain something really...merely set up to provide assistance to those in need.
These are just my observations...both sides can be played. But why? it will get nowhere for the poor poster who is trying hard to put together a reasonable "bargain" to help out the board. He is happy the way it is going. He wants the civil laws to stand and doesnt feel the need to change anything if he can get people sidetracked and all messed up in their own thinking. I have read many good examples here on how to fix things, at least partly, with logical simple ideas. But these arent addressed...its more fun to play and try to poke holes in those ideas. From one perspective this comes off as manipulative. But hey...these are only my opinions and we've all got one. So why get worked up about it.
sillyness
Posted by JadeKelly on April 7, 2009, at 14:13:07
In reply to Re: *********THE NEW RULE BOOK************, posted by JadeKelly on April 7, 2009, at 13:49:34
If bob gets to question each new rule, discuss, ad nauseam, again, every thing that will happen some time (never) I give up. There is no need for all this hostility any longer. Just Stop Today.
New Rules. Dont ask him, tell him. This is on him. He should have taken care of this a LONG time ago. If you don't want to do it, cool. But think of ALL the friends that are gone. And it will continue.....Make this place awesome again! Then I'll be jealous I can't come in! Jade Oh! Wait, one week rule!!!!
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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