![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 15 to 39 of 180. Go back in thread:
Posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 16:22:09
In reply to Lou's request for clarification-hoslnvirn? » gardenergirl, posted by Lou PIlder on July 18, 2008, at 14:07:56
> > I just want to add that I don't think that Lou is doing anything wrong or "bad" with his posting style. We all are who we are, afterall. From a practical standpoint, I don't think the current set up has room for that much individual attention to anyone, unfortunately.
> >
> > gg
>
> gardenergirl,
> You wrote,[...unfortunately...]
> I am unsure as to the grammatical structure of your statement and as to the context that it is in as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could reply to the following, I could have more understanding of what you are wanting to mean and respond accordingly.
> A.If you are referring to my outstanding requests, and I think that the context could mean that, what could be the consequences to me as the outstanding notifications and or the outstanding requests for clarification and or the requests for a rationale and such still being outstanding as being {unfortunate] to me?I would think that one consequence could be that you don't receive answers to all of your requests, despite your desire to.
> B.If the outstanding notifications/requests for clarification/requests for a rationale and such were answered here to me, would that remedy the situation to me so that the situation for me would not be unfortunate? If not, could you post here why not?
I don't know what is or is not unfortunate or fortunate for you personally, Lou. I stated that the current system does not allow for enough time for a great deal of individual attention to individual posters from Dr. Bob, nor from the deputies for that matter. That is unfortunate in that there are those who seem to wish for or need more of this attention, i.e. information, answers to questions, replies to comments, etc. than Dr. Bob and his current system of administration and accompanying constraints allow for.
> C. In the outstanding notifications, could you post here your opinion of what you think Mr. Hsiung means in his statement that [...we've missed them...] in relation to what your opinion is of what {missed} means in the statement?
I would guess "overlooked" in some manner, but it's only a guess.
gg
Posted by Dena on July 18, 2008, at 16:52:12
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-hoslnvirn? » Lou PIlder, posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 16:22:09
Thank you both, Dinah and GG, for giving me your perspectives on this. It does help to see things from varying viewpoints.
You are both very kind, and caring, and are obviously trying to serve the community to the best of your ability.
I agree -- human systems are limited in how the humans within them are served... it's an unfortunate reality.
Again - thanks for responding!
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Lou PIlder on July 18, 2008, at 17:45:47
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-hoslnvirn? » Lou PIlder, posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 16:22:09
> > > I just want to add that I don't think that Lou is doing anything wrong or "bad" with his posting style. We all are who we are, afterall. From a practical standpoint, I don't think the current set up has room for that much individual attention to anyone, unfortunately.
> > >
> > > gg
> >
> > gardenergirl,
> > You wrote,[...unfortunately...]
> > I am unsure as to the grammatical structure of your statement and as to the context that it is in as to what you are wanting to mean. If you could reply to the following, I could have more understanding of what you are wanting to mean and respond accordingly.
> > A.If you are referring to my outstanding requests, and I think that the context could mean that, what could be the consequences to me as the outstanding notifications and or the outstanding requests for clarification and or the requests for a rationale and such still being outstanding as being {unfortunate] to me?
>
> I would think that one consequence could be that you don't receive answers to all of your requests, despite your desire to.
>
> > B.If the outstanding notifications/requests for clarification/requests for a rationale and such were answered here to me, would that remedy the situation to me so that the situation for me would not be unfortunate? If not, could you post here why not?
>
> I don't know what is or is not unfortunate or fortunate for you personally, Lou. I stated that the current system does not allow for enough time for a great deal of individual attention to individual posters from Dr. Bob, nor from the deputies for that matter. That is unfortunate in that there are those who seem to wish for or need more of this attention, i.e. information, answers to questions, replies to comments, etc. than Dr. Bob and his current system of administration and accompanying constraints allow for.
>
> > C. In the outstanding notifications, could you post here your opinion of what you think Mr. Hsiung means in his statement that [...we've missed them...] in relation to what your opinion is of what {missed} means in the statement?
>
> I would guess "overlooked" in some manner, but it's only a guess.
>
> gg
>
>
gardenergirl,
You wrote,[...the ..system does not allow for enough time for..individual attention..from (the administartion)...]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by the statement above. If you could clarify by answering te following, then I could have a better understanding of what you are wanting to mean and respond accordingly.
A. If the system does not allow as what you have written here, then if another member sent the same notification that is of the one that I sent that is outstanding,at around the same time, I am unsure as to what would happen in regards to the post in question could in your opinion as to the grammatical structure of your statement in question here, that the other member's notification would or would not be responded to.
Lou
Posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 19:09:11
In reply to Lou's request for clarification-slctadmn? » gardenergirl, posted by Lou PIlder on July 18, 2008, at 17:45:47
>
> gardenergirl,
> You wrote,[...the ..system does not allow for enough time for..individual attention..from (the administartion)...]
> I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by the statement above. If you could clarify by answering te following, then I could have a better understanding of what you are wanting to mean and respond accordingly.
> A. If the system does not allow as what you have written here, then if another member sent the same notification that is of the one that I sent that is outstanding,at around the same time, I am unsure as to what would happen in regards to the post in question could in your opinion as to the grammatical structure of your statement in question here, that the other member's notification would or would not be responded to.
> Lou
>I don't have any way to predict how the current team would respond in that situation. I can tell you about factors that might influence my actions in a similar situation if that would help.
First, I'd have to consider what the notifications were about. If they were about an area I did not feel especially competent to evaluate, which includes most Faith board posts, I would likely not respond to either notification and defer it to the others.
Assuming it was something I did feel competent to evaluate, I'd also look at whether your notification was about someone you've notified about more than three times in the past that did not warrant action as determined by admin. Admittedly, there was no "list" or other way to track that, so I would have to go by my memory of past notifications and their outcomes and perhaps check my email archives. Because as you know, Lou, according to one of the rules of three, if one's notification is about someone for whom one has notified more than three times (or three times?) prior on posts that were not uncivil, further notifications sent by the same poster about the same other poster will not be considered. On a side note, that could be an explanation for at least some of your outstanding notifications.
Another factor is "readability". If one poster sends a notification that is concise, direct, and clear, I found it easier to take on. If the notification is long, less direct, contains multiple rationals or criteria or other extraneous as far as what I needed as a deputy to do my job, I would be less inclined to act on that one.
If I had to choose between two notifications to take on as a deputy due to time, energy, or interest constraints, and one was from someone who sent in an occasional notification (or even no prior notifications) and the other was from someone who had sent in numerous and sometimes repetitive notifications, I would likely feel more inclined to address the first. That would feel more equitable to me in how I used my "deputy" time. Typically, I would rather have spent it helping more people a bit than helping one person a lot. The latter never felt fair to me.
And the obvious part to your scenario is that if two notifications were presented on the same post, and one was "addressed" and the other was not, the post is still getting looked at. If the post is uncivil, the subsequent admin action would be there in the thread for all to see, including anyone who sent in a notification. If the post was deemed not uncivil, I think it would be appropriate to let both posters who notified know of the decision, although if one of them as in the "Three strikes" situation with the poster in question, then they might not get a reply. Though from my point of view, if I'm composing one reply, it would not be too difficult to copy and paste that into a reply to the other poster either, regardless of the rule of three status.
Dear lord, this is complicated and hard to explain. But those are the factors I can think of that could and did at times influence my choices about responding to notifications.
Finally, to be perfectly frank, Lou, if I believed that any reply I sent to you to explain a decision that a post you notified about was not uncivil would be highly likely to be met with further appeals from you about it, I did at times choose to avoid getting into it altogether. I was grateful that this was an option for deputies and that we could elect this option for any reason.
gg
PS: Regarding the coded aspects of your subject lines in this dialog, I do not find Babble to be a hostile environment nor do I find selective administration to occur due to anti-semitism or other discrimination towards specific individuals and/or groups. I do believe that Babble might not feel like a supportive, nurturing, and/or comfortable place for every single individual for any number of reasons. No place is. And any selective administration I've noted appears to me to stem more from trying to be as effective and efficient as possible given all of the demands and the limited resources available to meet them.
Posted by Lou PIlder on July 18, 2008, at 20:52:42
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-slctadmn? » Lou PIlder, posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 19:09:11
> >
> > gardenergirl,
> > You wrote,[...the ..system does not allow for enough time for..individual attention..from (the administartion)...]
> > I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by the statement above. If you could clarify by answering te following, then I could have a better understanding of what you are wanting to mean and respond accordingly.
> > A. If the system does not allow as what you have written here, then if another member sent the same notification that is of the one that I sent that is outstanding,at around the same time, I am unsure as to what would happen in regards to the post in question could in your opinion as to the grammatical structure of your statement in question here, that the other member's notification would or would not be responded to.
> > Lou
> >
>
> I don't have any way to predict how the current team would respond in that situation. I can tell you about factors that might influence my actions in a similar situation if that would help.
>
> First, I'd have to consider what the notifications were about. If they were about an area I did not feel especially competent to evaluate, which includes most Faith board posts, I would likely not respond to either notification and defer it to the others.
>
> Assuming it was something I did feel competent to evaluate, I'd also look at whether your notification was about someone you've notified about more than three times in the past that did not warrant action as determined by admin. Admittedly, there was no "list" or other way to track that, so I would have to go by my memory of past notifications and their outcomes and perhaps check my email archives. Because as you know, Lou, according to one of the rules of three, if one's notification is about someone for whom one has notified more than three times (or three times?) prior on posts that were not uncivil, further notifications sent by the same poster about the same other poster will not be considered. On a side note, that could be an explanation for at least some of your outstanding notifications.
>
> Another factor is "readability". If one poster sends a notification that is concise, direct, and clear, I found it easier to take on. If the notification is long, less direct, contains multiple rationals or criteria or other extraneous as far as what I needed as a deputy to do my job, I would be less inclined to act on that one.
>
> If I had to choose between two notifications to take on as a deputy due to time, energy, or interest constraints, and one was from someone who sent in an occasional notification (or even no prior notifications) and the other was from someone who had sent in numerous and sometimes repetitive notifications, I would likely feel more inclined to address the first. That would feel more equitable to me in how I used my "deputy" time. Typically, I would rather have spent it helping more people a bit than helping one person a lot. The latter never felt fair to me.
>
> And the obvious part to your scenario is that if two notifications were presented on the same post, and one was "addressed" and the other was not, the post is still getting looked at. If the post is uncivil, the subsequent admin action would be there in the thread for all to see, including anyone who sent in a notification. If the post was deemed not uncivil, I think it would be appropriate to let both posters who notified know of the decision, although if one of them as in the "Three strikes" situation with the poster in question, then they might not get a reply. Though from my point of view, if I'm composing one reply, it would not be too difficult to copy and paste that into a reply to the other poster either, regardless of the rule of three status.
>
> Dear lord, this is complicated and hard to explain. But those are the factors I can think of that could and did at times influence my choices about responding to notifications.
>
> Finally, to be perfectly frank, Lou, if I believed that any reply I sent to you to explain a decision that a post you notified about was not uncivil would be highly likely to be met with further appeals from you about it, I did at times choose to avoid getting into it altogether. I was grateful that this was an option for deputies and that we could elect this option for any reason.
>
> gg
>
> PS: Regarding the coded aspects of your subject lines in this dialog, I do not find Babble to be a hostile environment nor do I find selective administration to occur due to anti-semitism or other discrimination towards specific individuals and/or groups. I do believe that Babble might not feel like a supportive, nurturing, and/or comfortable place for every single individual for any number of reasons. No place is. And any selective administration I've noted appears to me to stem more from trying to be as effective and efficient as possible given all of the demands and the limited resources available to meet them.gardenergirl,
You wrote,[...I can tell you about my factors that..in a similar situation if it would help..
I have read your reply and I still am unsure concerning the situation, in paticular, but not limited to Mr. Hsiung's post that says something like that we've missed it (the notifications outstanding). If I was to know what he is wanting to mean by {missed}, then I could have a look at what he wants to mean by {we've}. In this, Mr. Hsiung also states that if I was to send them again that they would be addressed per the notification procedure that says that they will either be notated on the board or something will be sent to the one notifying.
By the nature of Mr. Hsiung's post, it could have the meaning that my post was received and that there was nothing about it that caused them to reject it, such as being in the 3 rule that you meantion or have something other than that to cause them to {miss} it. The notification procedure states to do X,Y and Z as per the TOS and I have followed that procedure. And when the notifications are not responded to, a reminder can be posted on the board which I have done. And when the reminder id not attended to, a nother reminder can be posted as in Mr.Hsiung' statement to keep reminding him. I have followed those procedures.
Mr. Hsiung has posted that if I send them again that they will be addressed. I am willing as I have posted here to accomodate the administration inthat regard if all of the deputie post individually here that they have no remembrance by going to the time period and board in question of the post in question that was notified and have no way to know what the post was either by checking sources that could have the notification or by remembering. I am awaiting that to happen and then I will send them again.
But you write that this is complicated and I agree and that is why I am posting requests for clarification of this situation, so that the complications can be cleared up.
Anothe request that I think could clear up the complication is that Mr. Hsiung wrote concerning the emails, that he can not answer all emails now. I am asking to clear that up by him responding to my request to know what he is wanting to mean here in referrence to the situation because his statement could mean that he could answwer 999 out of 1000 emails and he does invite members to email him and it is posted here that it is advised to email him if you want a quicker response. I took him at his word.
Lou
Posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 21:17:23
In reply to Lou's request for clarification-ehkaltmt » gardenergirl, posted by Lou PIlder on July 18, 2008, at 20:52:42
> Mr. Hsiung has posted that if I send them again that they will be addressed. I am willing as I have posted here to accomodate the administration inthat regard if all of the deputie post individually here that they have no remembrance by going to the time period and board in question of the post in question that was notified and have no way to know what the post was either by checking sources that could have the notification or by remembering.Lou,
Dr. Bob has requested you re-send the notifications. I recognize that you have followed the reminder procedures that he has outlined in the past. But at this time, and as in times recently past, he is asking for your assistance in helping him help you.
Instead, you're asking three individuals to search and sort through their records, records which contain notification emails from many others besides you, for ones from you that might have been overlooked or have not yet been addressed by Dr. Bob. And then there is you, a single individual who, I assume, possesses records of your own notifications only and who is, by your admission of your diligence in reminding, aware of exactly which notifications have not been addressed. Which do you think would be the more effective and efficient way of bringing the outstanding notifications to Dr. Bob's attention now? Asking three people to duplicate efforts in searching for something amongst many others? Or one individual sending what one must surely have documented in a manner which helps them easily find them?
Lou, I recommend working from an effective and efficient standpoint versus standing on principle.
gg
Posted by Lou PIlder on July 18, 2008, at 21:36:47
In reply to Lou's request for clarification-ehkaltmt » gardenergirl, posted by Lou PIlder on July 18, 2008, at 20:52:42
> > >
> > > gardenergirl,
> > > You wrote,[...the ..system does not allow for enough time for..individual attention..from (the administartion)...]
> > > I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by the statement above. If you could clarify by answering te following, then I could have a better understanding of what you are wanting to mean and respond accordingly.
> > > A. If the system does not allow as what you have written here, then if another member sent the same notification that is of the one that I sent that is outstanding,at around the same time, I am unsure as to what would happen in regards to the post in question could in your opinion as to the grammatical structure of your statement in question here, that the other member's notification would or would not be responded to.
> > > Lou
> > >
> >
> > I don't have any way to predict how the current team would respond in that situation. I can tell you about factors that might influence my actions in a similar situation if that would help.
> >
> > First, I'd have to consider what the notifications were about. If they were about an area I did not feel especially competent to evaluate, which includes most Faith board posts, I would likely not respond to either notification and defer it to the others.
> >
> > Assuming it was something I did feel competent to evaluate, I'd also look at whether your notification was about someone you've notified about more than three times in the past that did not warrant action as determined by admin. Admittedly, there was no "list" or other way to track that, so I would have to go by my memory of past notifications and their outcomes and perhaps check my email archives. Because as you know, Lou, according to one of the rules of three, if one's notification is about someone for whom one has notified more than three times (or three times?) prior on posts that were not uncivil, further notifications sent by the same poster about the same other poster will not be considered. On a side note, that could be an explanation for at least some of your outstanding notifications.
> >
> > Another factor is "readability". If one poster sends a notification that is concise, direct, and clear, I found it easier to take on. If the notification is long, less direct, contains multiple rationals or criteria or other extraneous as far as what I needed as a deputy to do my job, I would be less inclined to act on that one.
> >
> > If I had to choose between two notifications to take on as a deputy due to time, energy, or interest constraints, and one was from someone who sent in an occasional notification (or even no prior notifications) and the other was from someone who had sent in numerous and sometimes repetitive notifications, I would likely feel more inclined to address the first. That would feel more equitable to me in how I used my "deputy" time. Typically, I would rather have spent it helping more people a bit than helping one person a lot. The latter never felt fair to me.
> >
> > And the obvious part to your scenario is that if two notifications were presented on the same post, and one was "addressed" and the other was not, the post is still getting looked at. If the post is uncivil, the subsequent admin action would be there in the thread for all to see, including anyone who sent in a notification. If the post was deemed not uncivil, I think it would be appropriate to let both posters who notified know of the decision, although if one of them as in the "Three strikes" situation with the poster in question, then they might not get a reply. Though from my point of view, if I'm composing one reply, it would not be too difficult to copy and paste that into a reply to the other poster either, regardless of the rule of three status.
> >
> > Dear lord, this is complicated and hard to explain. But those are the factors I can think of that could and did at times influence my choices about responding to notifications.
> >
> > Finally, to be perfectly frank, Lou, if I believed that any reply I sent to you to explain a decision that a post you notified about was not uncivil would be highly likely to be met with further appeals from you about it, I did at times choose to avoid getting into it altogether. I was grateful that this was an option for deputies and that we could elect this option for any reason.
> >
> > gg
> >
> > PS: Regarding the coded aspects of your subject lines in this dialog, I do not find Babble to be a hostile environment nor do I find selective administration to occur due to anti-semitism or other discrimination towards specific individuals and/or groups. I do believe that Babble might not feel like a supportive, nurturing, and/or comfortable place for every single individual for any number of reasons. No place is. And any selective administration I've noted appears to me to stem more from trying to be as effective and efficient as possible given all of the demands and the limited resources available to meet them.
>
> gardenergirl,
> You wrote,[...I can tell you about my factors that..in a similar situation if it would help..
> I have read your reply and I still am unsure concerning the situation, in paticular, but not limited to Mr. Hsiung's post that says something like that we've missed it (the notifications outstanding). If I was to know what he is wanting to mean by {missed}, then I could have a look at what he wants to mean by {we've}. In this, Mr. Hsiung also states that if I was to send them again that they would be addressed per the notification procedure that says that they will either be notated on the board or something will be sent to the one notifying.
> By the nature of Mr. Hsiung's post, it could have the meaning that my post was received and that there was nothing about it that caused them to reject it, such as being in the 3 rule that you meantion or have something other than that to cause them to {miss} it. The notification procedure states to do X,Y and Z as per the TOS and I have followed that procedure. And when the notifications are not responded to, a reminder can be posted on the board which I have done. And when the reminder id not attended to, a nother reminder can be posted as in Mr.Hsiung' statement to keep reminding him. I have followed those procedures.
> Mr. Hsiung has posted that if I send them again that they will be addressed. I am willing as I have posted here to accomodate the administration inthat regard if all of the deputie post individually here that they have no remembrance by going to the time period and board in question of the post in question that was notified and have no way to know what the post was either by checking sources that could have the notification or by remembering. I am awaiting that to happen and then I will send them again.
> But you write that this is complicated and I agree and that is why I am posting requests for clarification of this situation, so that the complications can be cleared up.
> Anothe request that I think could clear up the complication is that Mr. Hsiung wrote concerning the emails, that he can not answer all emails now. I am asking to clear that up by him responding to my request to know what he is wanting to mean here in referrence to the situation because his statement could mean that he could answwer 999 out of 1000 emails and he does invite members to email him and it is posted here that it is advised to email him if you want a quicker response. I took him at his word.
> Lougardenergirl,
You wrote,[...if this could help (from your perspective)...].
Your perspective does bring out what you perceive but it could speak for other deputies and Mr Hsiung if they reiterated your perspective. But I see that the 3 rule and the other factors that you use may not be what they used to not respond yet because of that Mr. Hsiung has posted,[...we've *missed* them...please send them again...].
Your perspective could give some light on what is meant by {missed} but their meaning intended could be different from yours and I await his reply to my request for clarification. I also know that the member was not requested 3 other notifications in the past because I have a list of those and there are few.
As to waiting for the response from the administration concerning the outstanding requests, I have posted conditions for me to resend them that they post what I have requested from them. That could mean that the posts in question may not be addressed. But if there has been a significant time lapse already, what could in your opinion be the consequences to me for the posts to go unaddressed even if they are to be addressed now?
I think that there are ways to clear up the complications to this situation here, one being if the deputies posted here in this thread what is what they are wanting to mean by {missed} to me when I read Mr. Hsiung's statement to me, then that is one thing that IMO could clear up the situation here. And along with that, the deputies could explain how Mr. Hsiung may have used the word {we've} in [...we've missed them...send them again...].
Another way that I think that the situation could be resolved is if Mr. Hsiung replied to me in relation to the emails that he posted about of mine to him or post here hwy he can't in relation to his statement that he can not answer {all} emails as to what the reason is that he can not reply to my emails to him.
Another way is for us to agree on an impartial third party, not from the U of Chicago as I once requested, and allow them to post their decision on the admin. board, not on the thread in question.
Another way that I think could resolve this is for Mr. Hsiung to allow me to post more than 3 consecutive posts in the thread in question to uncover what may be not seen like I did with the poem by Mark Morford and the statement by Jean Jacques Rousseau.
Another way could be for a deputy to email me and we could discuss the location but not the post in question so that the deputy could then narrow the post down.
Another offer is that a member be allowed to post for me the post in question on the admin board that you choose.
Another way to clear this up IMO is for a new deputy be appointed and I will email it to that member.This could amount to a special moderator that I have previously suggested for I could then send all of the outstanding requests to them.
Other good and just solutions to this complication.
Lou
Posted by Lou PIlder on July 18, 2008, at 21:57:45
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-ehkaltmt » Lou PIlder, posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 21:17:23
>
> > Mr. Hsiung has posted that if I send them again that they will be addressed. I am willing as I have posted here to accomodate the administration inthat regard if all of the deputie post individually here that they have no remembrance by going to the time period and board in question of the post in question that was notified and have no way to know what the post was either by checking sources that could have the notification or by remembering.
>
> Lou,
>
> Dr. Bob has requested you re-send the notifications. I recognize that you have followed the reminder procedures that he has outlined in the past. But at this time, and as in times recently past, he is asking for your assistance in helping him help you.
>
> Instead, you're asking three individuals to search and sort through their records, records which contain notification emails from many others besides you, for ones from you that might have been overlooked or have not yet been addressed by Dr. Bob. And then there is you, a single individual who, I assume, possesses records of your own notifications only and who is, by your admission of your diligence in reminding, aware of exactly which notifications have not been addressed. Which do you think would be the more effective and efficient way of bringing the outstanding notifications to Dr. Bob's attention now? Asking three people to duplicate efforts in searching for something amongst many others? Or one individual sending what one must surely have documented in a manner which helps them easily find them?
>
> Lou, I recommend working from an effective and efficient standpoint versus standing on principle.
>
> gggardenergirl,
You wrote,[...three deputies...their records...emials of others besides you...].
Iam unsure as to what you are wanting mean by your statement and if you could clarify the following, I could have abetter understanding and respond accordingly.
A. Is it possible that the deputies have the notifications by me in their system/
B. If tht is possible, could they find them by using a search with my name?
C. And if that is possible, could that be a solution to this complication and we could go on? And if not, could you post here why not?
Lou
Posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 22:10:42
In reply to Lou's request for clarification-Lou's offer, posted by Lou PIlder on July 18, 2008, at 21:36:47
I wouldn't consider any of those suggestions likely to be efficient or effective in obtaining answers to your outstanding notifications. If your goal something other than obtaining answers to your notifications, perhaps to prove or not something about what actions or inactions mean other than simply a lack of an answer, well, those ideas may or may not be likely to achieve that goal. But they are also quite unlikely to occur. Given the stated and apparent limited capacity of the admin team's time and attention here, multiple requests that have quite often gone far and beyond what nearly every other community member here requests do not fit what I would consider to be reasonable and able to be accommodated. I might even go so far as to consider it pressuring the admin team for more than they have told you they can provide. But I don't get to make that assessment. Still, when I was a deputy, I was quite comfortable with choosing not to accommodate requests which were far beyond what was usual and customary and beyond what I believed was necessary for the good of the community as a whole.
Lou, I can't give you what you are seeking. Frankly, I don't believe what I suspect you are seeking exists in the specific context of the interactions between you and the admin team, but nevertheless, I know I don't have what you seem to be looking for. And I will not clarify the statements in this paragraph, so please don't ask.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 22:32:29
In reply to Lou's request for clarification-posiemalmal » gardenergirl, posted by Lou PIlder on July 18, 2008, at 21:57:45
>
> A. Is it possible that the deputies have the notifications by me in their system/Yes.
> B. If tht is possible, could they find them by using a search with my name?
Yes.
> C. And if that is possible, could that be a solution to this complication and we could go on? And if not, could you post here why not?
It could. But it's not close to being an efficient solution. You are asking three people to do work that you, a single individual, can do much more efficiently and effectively given your familiarity with the very posts you are asking them to hunt down. Why would it be reasonable, effective, or efficient to ask three people with a more limited familiarity with the specifics each to do something that one person, you Lou, can do alone and with more expertise? Just for that very reason, I wouldn't do it, and I would support any and all of the current deputies who might also consider it to not be an effective or efficient use of their time.
I consider it a request for treatment of one poster's expressed needs beyond the usual and customary here, and I do not consider it to be an urgent enough nor useful enough need for the everyday functioning of the community to warrant that much special treatment. When you also factor in my belief based on my own experience, this dialog as just one example, that the expressed need or desire for individual attention or treatment far beyond the usual and customary here does not end even if the specific need is met, I would also heartily support those who might decide not to provide extraordinarily high amounts of attention to one individual over and over. How is that fair or reasonable?
gg
Posted by Lou PIlder on July 18, 2008, at 23:07:39
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-posiemalmal » Lou PIlder, posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 22:32:29
> >
> > A. Is it possible that the deputies have the notifications by me in their system/
>
> Yes.
>
> > B. If tht is possible, could they find them by using a search with my name?
>
> Yes.
>
> > C. And if that is possible, could that be a solution to this complication and we could go on? And if not, could you post here why not?
>
> It could. But it's not close to being an efficient solution. You are asking three people to do work that you, a single individual, can do much more efficiently and effectively given your familiarity with the very posts you are asking them to hunt down. Why would it be reasonable, effective, or efficient to ask three people with a more limited familiarity with the specifics each to do something that one person, you Lou, can do alone and with more expertise? Just for that very reason, I wouldn't do it, and I would support any and all of the current deputies who might also consider it to not be an effective or efficient use of their time.
>
> I consider it a request for treatment of one poster's expressed needs beyond the usual and customary here, and I do not consider it to be an urgent enough nor useful enough need for the everyday functioning of the community to warrant that much special treatment. When you also factor in my belief based on my own experience, this dialog as just one example, that the expressed need or desire for individual attention or treatment far beyond the usual and customary here does not end even if the specific need is met, I would also heartily support those who might decide not to provide extraordinarily high amounts of attention to one individual over and over. How is that fair or reasonable?
>
> gggardenergirl,
You wrote in response to my request to you as to if using my name in a search by the deputies to find the notification and be a solution to this complication,[... it could, but it is not..{efficient}...].
I am unsure as to why if it is a solution to the issues here by the deputies doing a search of my name as to how that is not efficient. The generally accepted meaning of efficient is that it achieves the intended effect.
Lou
Posted by Lou PIlder on July 18, 2008, at 23:31:07
In reply to Lou's request for clarification-rhdhrng? » gardenergirl, posted by Lou PIlder on July 18, 2008, at 23:07:39
> > >
> > > A. Is it possible that the deputies have the notifications by me in their system/
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > > B. If tht is possible, could they find them by using a search with my name?
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > > C. And if that is possible, could that be a solution to this complication and we could go on? And if not, could you post here why not?
> >
> > It could. But it's not close to being an efficient solution. You are asking three people to do work that you, a single individual, can do much more efficiently and effectively given your familiarity with the very posts you are asking them to hunt down. Why would it be reasonable, effective, or efficient to ask three people with a more limited familiarity with the specifics each to do something that one person, you Lou, can do alone and with more expertise? Just for that very reason, I wouldn't do it, and I would support any and all of the current deputies who might also consider it to not be an effective or efficient use of their time.
> >
> > I consider it a request for treatment of one poster's expressed needs beyond the usual and customary here, and I do not consider it to be an urgent enough nor useful enough need for the everyday functioning of the community to warrant that much special treatment. When you also factor in my belief based on my own experience, this dialog as just one example, that the expressed need or desire for individual attention or treatment far beyond the usual and customary here does not end even if the specific need is met, I would also heartily support those who might decide not to provide extraordinarily high amounts of attention to one individual over and over. How is that fair or reasonable?
> >
> > gg
>
> gardenergirl,
> You wrote in response to my request to you as to if using my name in a search by the deputies to find the notification and be a solution to this complication,[... it could, but it is not..{efficient}...].
> I am unsure as to why if it is a solution to the issues here by the deputies doing a search of my name as to how that is not efficient. The generally accepted meaning of efficient is that it achieves the intended effect.
> Lougardenergirl,
You wrote,[...How is that fair or reasonable?...].
I would like to answer your question. Your first statement as to that the issue could be resolved by the deputies doing a search with my name is not efficient and I am unsure as to why it is not efficient for them to do that. In fact, would not just one deputy have to do that?
You have also posted about helping Mr. Hsiung. I ask, in regards to your question to me here, could it not be fair and reasonable for a deputy to help Mr. Hsiung?
Lou
Posted by gardenergirl on July 19, 2008, at 0:26:13
In reply to Lou's request for clarification-rhdhrng? » gardenergirl, posted by Lou PIlder on July 18, 2008, at 23:07:39
> I am unsure as to why if it is a solution to the issues here by the deputies doing a search of my name as to how that is not efficient. The generally accepted meaning of efficient is that it achieves the intended effect.
No, that is the generally accepted meaning of "effective".
It's not efficient (as in expedient, simpler, done in a manner which expends the least amount of effort for the greatest effect) for three people to each do the same work that one can do, especially if that one can do it easier due to your increased familiarity with and and smaller search set of data. And frankly, I think it's unnecessary for three people to each do the work that one can do when it's the one who is the interested party, not the three.
Perhaps you could give this a gander to see more about what I mean. http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/html/interpersonal_effectiveness_ha.html
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on July 19, 2008, at 0:35:33
In reply to Lou's request for clarification-phairnreezbul?, posted by Lou PIlder on July 18, 2008, at 23:31:07
> You wrote,[...How is that fair or reasonable?...].
> I would like to answer your question. Your first statement as to that the issue could be resolved by the deputies doing a search with my name is not efficient and I am unsure as to why it is not efficient for them to do that. In fact, would not just one deputy have to do that?That's not what you asked. Plus, you asked each of them to post on it. I do not find that to be a reasonable request. Nor is it within the standard practice of administration. Dr. Bob supports the idea that it is not necessary for each of the deputies to post an individual response to a question that can be answered by administration via one member's post.
> You have also posted about helping Mr. Hsiung. I ask, in regards to your question to me here, could it not be fair and reasonable for a deputy to help Mr. Hsiung?
They help in many ways, and I know from experience that it takes time, effort, and energy. They have to use that time, effort, and energy judiciously and wisely. And dare I say, effectively and efficiently. They do not have to, nor would it be wise to, imo, use that effort, time, and energy redundantly, within the bounds of a Sisyphean task, or when the common good that may come of it is relatively small in scope and scale in comparison to the quantity and quality of that expenditure of time, effort, and energy.
I think I've made my views on this extremely clear, Lou, and I'm not very likely to change them based on any additional information you might present about this. I've danced this dance before. I know the steps. I know how it tends to end. I'd rather expend this energy clipping my dog's toenails, as that will have a greater benefit to me, the dog, and my carpets and wood floors, a specific and easily observed outcome, and a definite end to that round of efforts.
Good night,
gg
Posted by Lou PIlder on July 19, 2008, at 4:16:19
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-rhdhrng? » Lou PIlder, posted by gardenergirl on July 19, 2008, at 0:26:13
> > I am unsure as to why if it is a solution to the issues here by the deputies doing a search of my name as to how that is not efficient. The generally accepted meaning of efficient is that it achieves the intended effect.
>
> No, that is the generally accepted meaning of "effective".
>
> It's not efficient (as in expedient, simpler, done in a manner which expends the least amount of effort for the greatest effect) for three people to each do the same work that one can do, especially if that one can do it easier due to your increased familiarity with and and smaller search set of data. And frankly, I think it's unnecessary for three people to each do the work that one can do when it's the one who is the interested party, not the three.
>
> Perhaps you could give this a gander to see more about what I mean. http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/html/interpersonal_effectiveness_ha.html
>
> gg
>
gardenergirl,
You wrote,[...no...] to that I wrote that the generally accepted meaning of {efficient} is that it achieves the intended effect.
Here is a link to the merriam-webster deinition of efficient. They use the phrase {production of desired effect}. I understand that to mean that it achieves the intended effect.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/efficient
Lou
Posted by Lou PIlder on July 19, 2008, at 5:19:38
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-phairnreezbul? » Lou PIlder, posted by gardenergirl on July 19, 2008, at 0:35:33
>
> > You wrote,[...How is that fair or reasonable?...].
> > I would like to answer your question. Your first statement as to that the issue could be resolved by the deputies doing a search with my name is not efficient and I am unsure as to why it is not efficient for them to do that. In fact, would not just one deputy have to do that?
>
> That's not what you asked. Plus, you asked each of them to post on it. I do not find that to be a reasonable request. Nor is it within the standard practice of administration. Dr. Bob supports the idea that it is not necessary for each of the deputies to post an individual response to a question that can be answered by administration via one member's post.
>
> > You have also posted about helping Mr. Hsiung. I ask, in regards to your question to me here, could it not be fair and reasonable for a deputy to help Mr. Hsiung?
>
> They help in many ways, and I know from experience that it takes time, effort, and energy. They have to use that time, effort, and energy judiciously and wisely. And dare I say, effectively and efficiently. They do not have to, nor would it be wise to, imo, use that effort, time, and energy redundantly, within the bounds of a Sisyphean task, or when the common good that may come of it is relatively small in scope and scale in comparison to the quantity and quality of that expenditure of time, effort, and energy.
>
> I think I've made my views on this extremely clear, Lou, and I'm not very likely to change them based on any additional information you might present about this. I've danced this dance before. I know the steps. I know how it tends to end. I'd rather expend this energy clipping my dog's toenails, as that will have a greater benefit to me, the dog, and my carpets and wood floors, a specific and easily observed outcome, and a definite end to that round of efforts.
>
> Good night,
> gggardenergirl,
You wrote,[...it takes time, effort and energy...they (the deputies) do not have to use that..when the common good that may come from it is relativley small...].
That the common good that may come from it (I guess using a search with my name) that could have them know of the outstanding notification,could be of importance to the requester and perhaps other members that may be unbeknownst to the deputy that chooses not to do the search to see if the notification can be seen by them.
This went to trial in relation to a resturant chain that involved patrons that were of unpopular ethnic origen.
The facts were that those patrons were either refused service, made to have an additional requierment for service, and other denial of equitable service.
These patrons were made to wait after they orderd and then when the patrons reminded the server of that they had ordered and not received their meal, the server told them that they would have to order again and that they lost it (the order). They were then told that they had an additional requierment to be served, to(pay in advance).
For a resturant to do such one time could be excused. The trial court looked at if there was a pattern and there was, for group made up of the same ethnic affiliation was treated in the same manner. The trial court looked at that to be a pattern of more than just one-time.
Then the resturant could not produce the wait list. And the fact that the resturant was not full was taken into consideration. Then it was determined that the wait list was destroyed..
The trial court looked at as to who had controll of the situation. The patrons did not, the resturant employees did have control and could give equitable service or not, and could give either fair or unfair treatment to patrons.
In several of the situations the patrons that were treated unfairly were also subjected to ethnic slurs and epithets and violence by other patrons as a result of them being treated unfairly.
You see, there is much more to this situation here IMO than who can do what the most efficient way. My concerns involve not just that the notification was not addressed the firat time that I sent it, nor was it addressed when I posted each reminder that I had sent a notification and it is outstanding.And now months have passed and I am told now to send it again. I would like to understand why that request to me was not made the first time that I sent the notification or the reminders.
Now I will send it again if all the deputies post individually that they have no way to know except from me, what the post in question is. then if that happems we could know what Mr. Hsiung is wanting to mean by,[...we've missed them...send them again...] and,[...I can't answer all emails now...].
Mr. Hsiung and his deputies may or may not understand what the consequences could be to me by allowing the statement in the notification to go unaddressed. They may or may not understand as to what the common good could or could not be as a result of leaving the statement in question unaddressed. I think that we will have to wait and see as to if a deputy or Mr. Hsiung will do the search or not, or post that they have no way to locate it except from me so that I will send it again, and either address the statement in the thread or contact me with their rationale for allowing it to stand, or post that all the deputies and Mr. Hsiung can not locate the notification. I have received a confirmation that my notification was sent and that it will be either adressed on the board or I will be contacted as to why it is allowed to stand. That is what I have read in Mr. Hsiung's TOS here and I took Mr. Hsiung at his word.
Lou
Posted by 10derHeart on July 19, 2008, at 12:18:04
In reply to Lou's request for clarification-prhnsipple » gardenergirl, posted by Lou PIlder on July 19, 2008, at 5:19:38
Lou, I feel hurt and incredibly offended reading a comparison between a discrimination case based on "unpopular ethnic origin" and what deputies do or don't do here at Babble.
If you believe, in your heart of hearts, that any one of us, or Dr. Bob, treats posters differently based on ethnicity, race, religion, etc., well, I am simply flabbergasted, and I don't know what else to do but tell you how utterly and completely mistaken you truly are.
I've been reminded from time to time while I've been a deputy that one may have to "grow a thick(er) skin" to withstand some of what may be said here. I think that's right and that I have managed, overall, to do that. But something like this penetrates, to the very core of who I am, and as I said, I feel pain.
I am so very sorry you think and feel this way, Lou. I really am.
-- 10derHeart
Posted by gardenergirl on July 19, 2008, at 13:10:13
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-prhnsipple » Lou PIlder, posted by 10derHeart on July 19, 2008, at 12:18:04
I'm sorry it's happening again, though I suppose I could have predicted it and acted differently if I had been thinking more globally.
(((((10derheart))))))
You have a beautiful, loving, generous heart, and I value you.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on July 19, 2008, at 13:38:36
In reply to Lou's request for clarification-prhnsipple » gardenergirl, posted by Lou PIlder on July 19, 2008, at 5:19:38
I doubt that the patrons in the suit ordered each menu item from the servers one at a time upon successive trips to the table by the server or asked for clarification upon clarification upon clarification such as:
what exactly the item is
what different words mean to the server
what temperature "hot" is
exactly what size "large" represents
what color plate it will be on
what options for different color plates exist
how could the special be sold out and unavailable when it says right here that it exists
etc. etc. etc.
I also doubt that the patrons provided reading material and information to their fellow diners and asked them what they thought "small" meant or "chilled" etc., taking into account said information when forming their reply, of course.
Your behavior plays a role in your interactions here with admin and with the community, Lou, just as the behavior of every other community member including me affects the interactions we each have. I suspect your behavior, Lou, likely would be represented by an outlying data point were it to be quantified and described as part of a data set of the entire community, just as the hypothetical behavior of restaurant patrons I outlined above would be far outside the norm of the behavior of restaurant patrons in general. There is nothing inherently wrong with behavior such as I described above, but it does have consequences. Those consequences are the effect of the BEHAVIOR, and not any character label. .As you notice, I gave no demographic information about the patrons in my scenario. Any conclusions one might make about the reactions of the staff could not be based on any demographic category the patrons might be placed in.
Lou, you could be Jewish, Catholic, atheist, pagan, tall, short, round, purple, pink, brown, beige, yellow, red, striped, spotted, translucent, shimmery, fragrant, prickly, smooth, dressed, undressed, partially dressed, liberal, conservative, multi-ethnic, right-handed, left-handed, ambidextrous, bi-lingual, multi-lingual, mute, deaf, blind, weak, strong, on steroids, on acid, high on life, low on toilet paper, all of the above, none of the above, some of the above, some but not all of the above, different versions of the above at different times or places, etc., and if you still exhibited the same behaviors here at Babble, you would experience the same consequences. Of this I have NO DOUBT.
It is because of this belief that I assess the potential greater good that could come of the admin team putting forth extraordinary efforts to meet your specific needs as very small. I tend to doubt, in fact, that it would even represent a single good to you, as I fear you will never feel satisfied despite anyone's best and extraordinary efforts. And I feel sad about that aspect, because I imagine living in that state would be terribly painful.
Sincerely,
gg
Posted by Lou PIlder on July 19, 2008, at 14:31:45
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-prhnsipple » Lou PIlder, posted by 10derHeart on July 19, 2008, at 12:18:04
> Lou, I feel hurt and incredibly offended reading a comparison between a discrimination case based on "unpopular ethnic origin" and what deputies do or don't do here at Babble.
>
> If you believe, in your heart of hearts, that any one of us, or Dr. Bob, treats posters differently based on ethnicity, race, religion, etc., well, I am simply flabbergasted, and I don't know what else to do but tell you how utterly and completely mistaken you truly are.
>
> I've been reminded from time to time while I've been a deputy that one may have to "grow a thick(er) skin" to withstand some of what may be said here. I think that's right and that I have managed, overall, to do that. But something like this penetrates, to the very core of who I am, and as I said, I feel pain.
>
> I am so very sorry you think and feel this way, Lou. I really am.
>
> -- 10derHeart10derHeart,
You wrote,[...i am sorry that you YYYY and XXXX this way...].
In the post that you responded to me about I do not believe that I posted what I thought or felt.
The post is about {significant time lag} from a request to the response to the request. It did not matter as to if those in the example received the meals or not and I did not write about that. The issue is the significant time lag.
I did post somewhere here that even if a response from the administration came after the reminders, the significant time lag still happened. There was a post indicating that a significant time lag could happen as a result of a poster's fault of not having their feature on. That is not the case with me for I followed the procedure given and have the feature on, the time lag is not my fault.
The post was about additional conditions that I have told you that I will not be subjected to over and over and I am still asked to send them again and that emails to Mr. Hsiung can not all be responded to. This is in regards to that if one wants a quicker response that they can email Mr. Hsiung. I have done that. I have followed the procedure and I took Mr. Hsiung at his word and the emails were before he posted about not replying to all emails. If he was to reply to my emails to him that were before his post then this situstaion could be attended to. And if requests are sent by the deputies to Mr. Hsiung, and he does not reply to them, then I am asking for someone else to reply to them, maybe an impartial moderator from a university other than U of Chicago.
If I was allowed to post more than 3 consecutive posts then I could attend to any post here as I have like the one from Mark Morford's poem and the statement by Jean Kacques Rousseau and others. I do not have any idea how my posting to uncover what now is plainly visible caused anyone to not post tthere or anywhere else.
Since I can not also use the notification feature for those of 3 requests in the past, that limits me from using he notification for them. There are a few of them.
The aspect of the example of the principle also brought out that members here see that I post repeated reminders concerning notifications and requests for clarification about the rules and policy and the TOS here. The time lag of those reminders has an effect according to psychologists.
The example was to show what could happen. We are aware of what has happened in historical parallels where things were done on the basis that the people in power said that it did not matter to the larger part of the group and that what is good for the whole is what matters. The arguments for slavery included that argument. The argument for segregation included that argument. The argument for infanticide included that argument. The argument for genocide included that argument.
Mr. Hsiung does not have to respond to my requests for clarification.rationales and such, but he did say that if one wanted to know them, to just ask. I took him at his word.
Lou
Well, I am part of the whole here,
Posted by Lou PIlder on July 19, 2008, at 14:33:16
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-prhnsipple » Lou PIlder, posted by 10derHeart on July 19, 2008, at 12:18:04
> Lou, I feel hurt and incredibly offended reading a comparison between a discrimination case based on "unpopular ethnic origin" and what deputies do or don't do here at Babble.
>
> If you believe, in your heart of hearts, that any one of us, or Dr. Bob, treats posters differently based on ethnicity, race, religion, etc., well, I am simply flabbergasted, and I don't know what else to do but tell you how utterly and completely mistaken you truly are.
>
> I've been reminded from time to time while I've been a deputy that one may have to "grow a thick(er) skin" to withstand some of what may be said here. I think that's right and that I have managed, overall, to do that. But something like this penetrates, to the very core of who I am, and as I said, I feel pain.
>
> I am so very sorry you think and feel this way, Lou. I really am.
>
> -- 10derHeart10derHeart,
You wrote,[...i am sorry that you YYYY and XXXX this way...].
In the post that you responded to me about I do not believe that I posted what I thought or felt.
The post is about {significant time lag} from a request to the response to the request. It did not matter as to if those in the example received the meals or not and I did not write about that. The issue is the significant time lag.
I did post somewhere here that even if a response from the administration came after the reminders, the significant time lag still happened. There was a post indicating that a significant time lag could happen as a result of a poster's fault of not having their feature on. That is not the case with me for I followed the procedure given and have the feature on, the time lag is not my fault.
The post was about additional conditions that I have told you that I will not be subjected to over and over and I am still asked to send them again and that emails to Mr. Hsiung can not all be responded to. This is in regards to that if one wants a quicker response that they can email Mr. Hsiung. I have done that. I have followed the procedure and I took Mr. Hsiung at his word and the emails were before he posted about not replying to all emails. If he was to reply to my emails to him that were before his post then this situstaion could be attended to. And if requests are sent by the deputies to Mr. Hsiung, and he does not reply to them, then I am asking for someone else to reply to them, maybe an impartial moderator from a university other than U of Chicago.
If I was allowed to post more than 3 consecutive posts then I could attend to any post here as I have like the one from Mark Morford's poem and the statement by Jean Kacques Rousseau and others. I do not have any idea how my posting to uncover what now is plainly visible caused anyone to not post tthere or anywhere else.
Since I can not also use the notification feature for those of 3 requests in the past, that limits me from using he notification for them. There are a few of them.
The aspect of the example of the principle also brought out that members here see that I post repeated reminders concerning notifications and requests for clarification about the rules and policy and the TOS here. The time lag of those reminders has an effect according to psychologists.
The example was to show what could happen. We are aware of what has happened in historical parallels where things were done on the basis that the people in power said that it did not matter to the larger part of the group and that what is good for the whole is what matters. The arguments for slavery included that argument. The argument for segregation included that argument. The argument for infanticide included that argument. The argument for genocide included that argument.
Mr. Hsiung writes that if one wanted to know his rationales to just ask. I took him at his word.
Lou
Posted by Lou PIlder on July 19, 2008, at 15:25:10
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-prhnsipple, posted by gardenergirl on July 19, 2008, at 13:38:36
> I doubt that the patrons in the suit ordered each menu item from the servers one at a time upon successive trips to the table by the server or asked for clarification upon clarification upon clarification such as:
>
> what exactly the item is
>
> what different words mean to the server
>
> what temperature "hot" is
>
> exactly what size "large" represents
>
> what color plate it will be on
>
> what options for different color plates exist
>
> how could the special be sold out and unavailable when it says right here that it exists
>
> etc. etc. etc.
>
> I also doubt that the patrons provided reading material and information to their fellow diners and asked them what they thought "small" meant or "chilled" etc., taking into account said information when forming their reply, of course.
>
> Your behavior plays a role in your interactions here with admin and with the community, Lou, just as the behavior of every other community member including me affects the interactions we each have. I suspect your behavior, Lou, likely would be represented by an outlying data point were it to be quantified and described as part of a data set of the entire community, just as the hypothetical behavior of restaurant patrons I outlined above would be far outside the norm of the behavior of restaurant patrons in general. There is nothing inherently wrong with behavior such as I described above, but it does have consequences. Those consequences are the effect of the BEHAVIOR, and not any character label. .As you notice, I gave no demographic information about the patrons in my scenario. Any conclusions one might make about the reactions of the staff could not be based on any demographic category the patrons might be placed in.
>
> Lou, you could be Jewish, Catholic, atheist, pagan, tall, short, round, purple, pink, brown, beige, yellow, red, striped, spotted, translucent, shimmery, fragrant, prickly, smooth, dressed, undressed, partially dressed, liberal, conservative, multi-ethnic, right-handed, left-handed, ambidextrous, bi-lingual, multi-lingual, mute, deaf, blind, weak, strong, on steroids, on acid, high on life, low on toilet paper, all of the above, none of the above, some of the above, some but not all of the above, different versions of the above at different times or places, etc., and if you still exhibited the same behaviors here at Babble, you would experience the same consequences. Of this I have NO DOUBT.
>
> It is because of this belief that I assess the potential greater good that could come of the admin team putting forth extraordinary efforts to meet your specific needs as very small. I tend to doubt, in fact, that it would even represent a single good to you, as I fear you will never feel satisfied despite anyone's best and extraordinary efforts. And I feel sad about that aspect, because I imagine living in that state would be terribly painful.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> gggardenergirl,
You wrote,[...I doubt that the patrons...asked for clarification upon clarification...what exactly the item is...different words...hot...color of plate...your behavior plays a role...Your XXX..represented by an outlying data point...YYY outside the norm...the potential greater good that could come of the adminstrative team putting forth extrordinary efforts to meet your..needs as very small...doubt.. that it would even represent a single good to you...you will XXX feel satisfied...living in that state..terribly painful.
I like your example about the patrons asking questions to the server. You see, I was a gormet waiter durring my college years and was trained to ask those questions , for each individual has spacific dietary needs. Diabetics need to know what is in the food. I had to know how each dish was prepared to ask even if there was garlic in the dish. And the color of the dish wa important o some. A white dish was asked for many times. Some people want to see what comes out of the food as to fat and such and are concerned about contamination and cleanliness. The white plate helped those people to have confidence.
The temperature was important to some. some people have extrme sensitivities to heat and cold and the degree of hot could be important to them.
Portion size was extreamly impotant to dieters and thers that had to be concerned about volume.
Some itms were unknown as to what they were due to their name. Escargot was one. I tried to be helpful from my training and was able to answer all questions except one.
Different ethnic peoples have strict dietary demands and some want to know if there is any pork products in the food, or if milk products are in the food. This was in my training/ How meat is cooked according to being rare or well-done is also important to some as to bacteria like ecoli being killed from the temperature. I had to know each cooking temperature.
Then there was service which was a great part of the resturant's appeal. We made sure that each patron got the best service and out motto was that all patrons deserved that. Each order was timed and placed in a series of procedures so that it was impossible for an order to get lost or for one patron to be served ahead of another in relation to the taking of the order.
more...
Lou
Posted by 10derHeart on July 19, 2008, at 21:52:25
In reply to Been there. Felt that. » 10derHeart, posted by gardenergirl on July 19, 2008, at 13:10:13
Hi gg.
Thanks for hearing me. I know you know. I can't see what you needed to do differently. We are each and every one of us, responsible for our own writings. I don't think you can accurately predict all possible responses from others, and even if you could, you can only worry about what you, personally, place on these boards to be read.
Anyway.....always great to see you :-)
Posted by Lou PIlder on July 20, 2008, at 5:16:33
In reply to Lou's reply to 10derHeart-phaulzakt? » 10derHeart, posted by Lou PIlder on July 19, 2008, at 14:31:45
> > Lou, I feel hurt and incredibly offended reading a comparison between a discrimination case based on "unpopular ethnic origin" and what deputies do or don't do here at Babble.
> >
> > If you believe, in your heart of hearts, that any one of us, or Dr. Bob, treats posters differently based on ethnicity, race, religion, etc., well, I am simply flabbergasted, and I don't know what else to do but tell you how utterly and completely mistaken you truly are.
> >
> > I've been reminded from time to time while I've been a deputy that one may have to "grow a thick(er) skin" to withstand some of what may be said here. I think that's right and that I have managed, overall, to do that. But something like this penetrates, to the very core of who I am, and as I said, I feel pain.
> >
> > I am so very sorry you think and feel this way, Lou. I really am.
> >
> > -- 10derHeart
>
> 10derHeart,
> You wrote,[...i am sorry that you YYYY and XXXX this way...].
> In the post that you responded to me about I do not believe that I posted what I thought or felt.
> The post is about {significant time lag} from a request to the response to the request. It did not matter as to if those in the example received the meals or not and I did not write about that. The issue is the significant time lag.
> I did post somewhere here that even if a response from the administration came after the reminders, the significant time lag still happened. There was a post indicating that a significant time lag could happen as a result of a poster's fault of not having their feature on. That is not the case with me for I followed the procedure given and have the feature on, the time lag is not my fault.
> The post was about additional conditions that I have told you that I will not be subjected to over and over and I am still asked to send them again and that emails to Mr. Hsiung can not all be responded to. This is in regards to that if one wants a quicker response that they can email Mr. Hsiung. I have done that. I have followed the procedure and I took Mr. Hsiung at his word and the emails were before he posted about not replying to all emails. If he was to reply to my emails to him that were before his post then this situstaion could be attended to. And if requests are sent by the deputies to Mr. Hsiung, and he does not reply to them, then I am asking for someone else to reply to them, maybe an impartial moderator from a university other than U of Chicago.
> If I was allowed to post more than 3 consecutive posts then I could attend to any post here as I have like the one from Mark Morford's poem and the statement by Jean Kacques Rousseau and others. I do not have any idea how my posting to uncover what now is plainly visible caused anyone to not post tthere or anywhere else.
> Since I can not also use the notification feature for those of 3 requests in the past, that limits me from using he notification for them. There are a few of them.
> The aspect of the example of the principle also brought out that members here see that I post repeated reminders concerning notifications and requests for clarification about the rules and policy and the TOS here. The time lag of those reminders has an effect according to psychologists.
> The example was to show what could happen. We are aware of what has happened in historical parallels where things were done on the basis that the people in power said that it did not matter to the larger part of the group and that what is good for the whole is what matters. The arguments for slavery included that argument. The argument for segregation included that argument. The argument for infanticide included that argument. The argument for genocide included that argument.
> Mr. Hsiung does not have to respond to my requests for clarification.rationales and such, but he did say that if one wanted to know them, to just ask. I took him at his word.
> Lou
> Well, I am part of the whole here,10derHeart,
You wrote,[...treats posters diffferntly...mistaken you XXX are...(sorry)you XXX and XXX this way...].
Friends,
If you are considering being a discussant in this thread, I am requesting that you click on the offered links here to examine the threads and consider the content in any reply that you may post here.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041109/msgs/429282.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20061018/msgs/699224.html
If you could look at the threads, I then ask that you email me if you would like more infomation concerning this topic for there have been rules made here that are not in the FAQ that could mean that I could not post some things here concerning this topic. I have an assembly of posts in relation to this topic that I could share with you if you like.
Lou
Posted by Lou PIlder on July 20, 2008, at 6:25:30
In reply to Lou's reply to 10derHeart-thnknfheel, posted by Lou PIlder on July 20, 2008, at 5:16:33
> > > Lou, I feel hurt and incredibly offended reading a comparison between a discrimination case based on "unpopular ethnic origin" and what deputies do or don't do here at Babble.
> > >
> > > If you believe, in your heart of hearts, that any one of us, or Dr. Bob, treats posters differently based on ethnicity, race, religion, etc., well, I am simply flabbergasted, and I don't know what else to do but tell you how utterly and completely mistaken you truly are.
> > >
> > > I've been reminded from time to time while I've been a deputy that one may have to "grow a thick(er) skin" to withstand some of what may be said here. I think that's right and that I have managed, overall, to do that. But something like this penetrates, to the very core of who I am, and as I said, I feel pain.
> > >
> > > I am so very sorry you think and feel this way, Lou. I really am.
> > >
> > > -- 10derHeart
> >
> > 10derHeart,
> > You wrote,[...i am sorry that you YYYY and XXXX this way...].
> > In the post that you responded to me about I do not believe that I posted what I thought or felt.
> > The post is about {significant time lag} from a request to the response to the request. It did not matter as to if those in the example received the meals or not and I did not write about that. The issue is the significant time lag.
> > I did post somewhere here that even if a response from the administration came after the reminders, the significant time lag still happened. There was a post indicating that a significant time lag could happen as a result of a poster's fault of not having their feature on. That is not the case with me for I followed the procedure given and have the feature on, the time lag is not my fault.
> > The post was about additional conditions that I have told you that I will not be subjected to over and over and I am still asked to send them again and that emails to Mr. Hsiung can not all be responded to. This is in regards to that if one wants a quicker response that they can email Mr. Hsiung. I have done that. I have followed the procedure and I took Mr. Hsiung at his word and the emails were before he posted about not replying to all emails. If he was to reply to my emails to him that were before his post then this situstaion could be attended to. And if requests are sent by the deputies to Mr. Hsiung, and he does not reply to them, then I am asking for someone else to reply to them, maybe an impartial moderator from a university other than U of Chicago.
> > If I was allowed to post more than 3 consecutive posts then I could attend to any post here as I have like the one from Mark Morford's poem and the statement by Jean Kacques Rousseau and others. I do not have any idea how my posting to uncover what now is plainly visible caused anyone to not post tthere or anywhere else.
> > Since I can not also use the notification feature for those of 3 requests in the past, that limits me from using he notification for them. There are a few of them.
> > The aspect of the example of the principle also brought out that members here see that I post repeated reminders concerning notifications and requests for clarification about the rules and policy and the TOS here. The time lag of those reminders has an effect according to psychologists.
> > The example was to show what could happen. We are aware of what has happened in historical parallels where things were done on the basis that the people in power said that it did not matter to the larger part of the group and that what is good for the whole is what matters. The arguments for slavery included that argument. The argument for segregation included that argument. The argument for infanticide included that argument. The argument for genocide included that argument.
> > Mr. Hsiung does not have to respond to my requests for clarification.rationales and such, but he did say that if one wanted to know them, to just ask. I took him at his word.
> > Lou
> > Well, I am part of the whole here,
>
> 10derHeart,
> You wrote,[...treats posters diffferntly...mistaken you XXX are...(sorry)you XXX and XXX this way...].
> Friends,
> If you are considering being a discussant in this thread, I am requesting that you click on the offered links here to examine the threads and consider the content in any reply that you may post here.
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041109/msgs/429282.html
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20061018/msgs/699224.html
> If you could look at the threads, I then ask that you email me if you would like more infomation concerning this topic for there have been rules made here that are not in the FAQ that could mean that I could not post some things here concerning this topic. I have an assembly of posts in relation to this topic that I could share with you if you like.
> LouFriends,
Here is a link that i would like for you to bring up a thread that has a post where Mr. Hsiung threatens me with expulsion if I was to post that I have been revealed to me supernaturally a commandment from my God to me that XXX (the foundation of Judaism). The express purpose of the faith board is to post concerning god and the supernatural.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050323/msgs/483280.html
Lou
PS
the correction to the link above is:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20061018/msgs/699224.html
Go forward in thread:
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