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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 47 to 71 of 71. Go back in thread:
Posted by phoenix1 on February 23, 2008, at 12:38:51
In reply to Psycho-Babble is dying., posted by SLS on February 19, 2008, at 6:05:11
I don't know if Psycho-Babble is dying. It's sad to see some of the long-time posters leaving. (I read this board religiously for 4 years before ever signing up and posting) So it's not at all the same board when there is an influx of new users and an outflux of old timers. In that respect, the old Psycho-Babble is dying, and I'm not sure how much I like the new one.
I do know that the civility rules have caused people to leave out of sheer frustration. I also know that there are lot's of people who are reading, but feel a fear of posting because they are unclear on how their post will be accepted by the administration. I'm beginning to learn this fear unfortunately. I don't feel I can say what I mean without getting disciplined. And if I can't say what I actually want to say, then what is the point in posting if it will just cause another block or PBC? Bob recomended this himself, something to the effect of "you may not have anything civil to say on particular threads, in which case you can avoid them". But how can there be healthy debate or defense of oneself with the current civility rules?
Anyways, Im straying from the purpose of this response. The current civility rules are changing the nature of babble, and I don't think it is for the good. The problem is that I haven't found a better forum out there. But if I don't feel that this is a safe and healthy community to be a part of, maybe babble isn't right for me either...
Phoenix1
> > Is Psycho-Babble dying?
>
> Yes.
>
> Is it dead yet?
>
> Not quite.
>
> Where did everybody go?
>
> I don't know. However, I would guess that a sizable percentage of people migrated to other sites. These people, de facto, find their new posting environment more appealing than that of Psycho-Babble.
>
> There is the possibility that changes in the administration of this website could resurrect it from its demise.
>
> I need to think about this some more.
>
> All I know is that my reduced desire to post is directly attributable to the rate of attrition at Psycho-Babble. Nothing turns me on anymore.
>
> Shall I be more specific regarding the posting environment here? I think I will leave this discussion to the administration to answer for themselves after they deliberate on the causes for the decay of Psycho-Babble.
>
> I would hate to leave here so soon after my return, but I am afraid that this is a possibility. I doubt that my personal dilemma is shared by everyone here. Maybe Scott must change.
>
> Yeah, right.
>
>
> - Scott
>
Posted by medjuggler on February 23, 2008, at 13:36:42
In reply to My time out is over. I'll be a good boy now. » Justherself54, posted by phoenix1 on February 23, 2008, at 12:09:58
Wellcome back friend! :)
mj
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 27, 2008, at 16:14:31
In reply to Re: Psycho-Babble is dying., posted by Toph on February 20, 2008, at 21:21:09
> I may be mistaken but the vitality of Psycho-Babble seems to mirror the interest it's founder has in it.
That's an interesting theory, let's come back to this. How would my interest affect its vitality?
Bob
Posted by Toph on March 27, 2008, at 17:25:07
In reply to Re: the interest it's founder has, posted by Dr. Bob on March 27, 2008, at 16:14:31
> > I may be mistaken but the vitality of Psycho-Babble seems to mirror the interest it's founder has in it.
>
> That's an interesting theory, let's come back to this. How would my interest affect its vitality?
>
> BobIt's probably not true, of course, because if I have this correct your interest (probably should be "active involvement") was highest at the site's inception when census was low. As you became less involved census continued to rise. I don't know what correlation there is between usage peaking, when it began to decline and when you began to rely more on moderators.
I've been here 3 years. It's my impression that since I first participated when I have sensed your presence less, I have been less involved and the boards have fewer paraticipants. This is just my sense of things. Ironically, when you left altogether, my participation sharply increased, so what do I know?
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 28, 2008, at 0:36:40
In reply to Re: the interest it's founder has, posted by Toph on March 27, 2008, at 17:25:07
> It's my impression that since I first participated when I have sensed your presence less, I have been less involved and the boards have fewer paraticipants. This is just my sense of things.
You may be right, what I'm wondering is what the connection would be, how my being less present would lead to posters being less involved. Any ideas?
Bob
Posted by Toph on March 28, 2008, at 7:32:00
In reply to Re: the interest it's founder has, posted by Dr. Bob on March 28, 2008, at 0:36:40
Maybe who you represented to posters, be it an idealized parental figure that some may have wanted to please or the repressor who others needed to vilify, played a part in driving many to have interest and participate. Or in my case, maybe both images were in play.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 28, 2008, at 10:28:51
In reply to Re: the interest it's founder has » Dr. Bob, posted by Toph on March 28, 2008, at 7:32:00
> Maybe who you represented to posters, be it an idealized parental figure that some may have wanted to please or the repressor who others needed to vilify, played a part in driving many to have interest and participate. Or in my case, maybe both images were in play.
Thanks, I appreciate your reflecting on and being open about this.
So if I'm not around to please or vilify, then there's no "outlet" here for those needs, so less reason to stay? What about pleasing or vilifying the deputies?
Bob
Posted by Dinah on March 28, 2008, at 10:58:25
In reply to Re: the interest it's founder has » Dr. Bob, posted by Toph on March 28, 2008, at 7:32:00
This might be similar to what you're saying. But it seems to me that when Dr. Bob is here, there is the impression that the store is minded, the owner is taking pride and ownership in his "product" and that the environment is safer and more well tended.
Even if in practice, when he's here, we might not like his tending.
But even that unifies us, and gives us a common enemy, and thus increases group cohesiveness and increases posting.
Posted by Toph on March 28, 2008, at 15:28:04
In reply to Re: the interest it's founder has » Toph, posted by Dinah on March 28, 2008, at 10:58:25
Well said Dinah. Safety, a shared purpose - be it in support or in criticism - adds to cohesion and participation.
Some come for information, some for distraction, others to disclose sensitive parts of themselves. What keeps many involved is a group dynamic, a sense of identification, belonging, or acceptance by peers. Group effects would seem to be independent of the sense of the administraor's presence.
Posted by muffled on March 28, 2008, at 20:47:22
In reply to Re: the interest it's founder has » Toph, posted by Dinah on March 28, 2008, at 10:58:25
#> Maybe who you represented to posters, be it an idealized parental figure that some may have wanted to please or the repressor who others needed to vilify, played a part in driving many to have interest and participate. Or in my case, maybe both images were in play.
*to me it was both. It felt (mostly) kinda cosy/safe w/Bob watching over us, checking the boards. But at the same time I didn't know who the F he was, so I wasn't so sure of him. I kept worrying over his motivations....(still do sometimes...)
At the same time ...oh how I LOVE to hate him...LOL!!! Actually its not as much fun as it was. But still some part of me still does. HA!
Bob also has a sort of fascination(VERY vaguely for me, but perhaps more so for others) cuz he is in a position of owning the place.
I just realized!!! LOL!!! I accuse Bob of watching US like we lab rats.....ROFL!!!! I think *I* do the same watching him!!!OMG ROFL!!!! This strikes me as hilarious!!!!
I been feeling very philosopherish lately.So this discussion is interesting.> This might be similar to what you're saying. But it seems to me that when Dr. Bob is here, there is the impression that the store is minded, the owner is taking pride and ownership in his "product" and that the environment is safer and more well tended.
*to me this is a different thought Dinah and VERY true as well.
> Even if in practice, when he's here, we might not like his tending.
> But even that unifies us, and gives us a common enemy, and thus increases group cohesiveness and increases posting.
*DEFINATELY if you ask me....good thing Bob seems to put up w/the crapola eh!!!M
Posted by muffled on March 28, 2008, at 21:11:58
In reply to Re: the interest it's founder has » Dinah, posted by muffled on March 28, 2008, at 20:47:22
Babble for me is about the people here.
Special people.
Real people.
Amazing people.
Caring people.
Strong and corageous people who march onwards despite adversity.
People who are so kind and supportive to me and give me so much.
It gives to me to give to others as well. I learn, I feel good. I am included, I am not despised.
Hell it just makes me feel good!
Its about them for me much more so than Bob.
Which is why I worry bout Bob, cuz his actions hurt those people sometimes. And often I just don't think he 'gets' it. Or maybe he's just so busy he hasn't enuf time to think about and 'get' it.
Anyways, THAT is what is intolerable to me.
Feeling powerless to help :-(
Cuz Bob is Bob, and he is who he is.
But I not quite so sure I can deal w/him in his inconsistancy.
But maybe it will be better in future....
Dunno.
M
Posted by Toph on March 29, 2008, at 9:11:01
In reply to Re: the presence of it's founder, posted by Dr. Bob on March 28, 2008, at 10:28:51
> So if I'm not around to please or vilify, then there's no "outlet" here for those needs, so less reason to stay? What about pleasing or vilifying the deputies?
>
> BobOh, there's some of that, but mostly whenever they act like you. As much as I like them and respect them, I don't think there's much idealization of the deputies as deputies, only as people. After all there're fundamentally one of us, despite how much they may act like you administratively. They disclose personal things, they laugh and cry with us - they even get pissed at you like us! Nope, Bob, a reply from you is still more special than one from a deputy no matter the content.
Despite how much I despise Chaney, it will always be W who I vilify the most. While he likely has little to do with the design and implimentation of his own administration's policies, they bear his name, so he gets the blame in my mind.
Posted by Phillipa on March 29, 2008, at 18:58:48
In reply to Re: the presence of it's founder, posted by Dr. Bob on March 28, 2008, at 10:28:51
Dr. Bob because you represent safety to me. And as the deputies are all voluneers they are not always here to clean up messes. Just my though Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on March 29, 2008, at 22:27:28
In reply to Re: the presence of it's founder » Dr. Bob, posted by Toph on March 29, 2008, at 9:11:01
> Oh, there's some of that, but mostly whenever they act like you. As much as I like them and respect them, I don't think there's much idealization of the deputies as deputies, only as people. After all there're fundamentally one of us, despite how much they may act like you administratively. They disclose personal things, they laugh and cry with us - they even get pissed at you like us! Nope, Bob, a reply from you is still more special than one from a deputy no matter the content.
I think that's my favorite ever description of deputies. :)
Posted by muffled on March 29, 2008, at 22:56:26
In reply to Re: the presence of it's founder » Dr. Bob, posted by Toph on March 29, 2008, at 9:11:01
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 30, 2008, at 12:36:49
In reply to Re: the interest it's founder has » Dinah, posted by muffled on March 28, 2008, at 20:47:22
> I don't think there's much idealization of the deputies as deputies, only as people. After all there're fundamentally one of us, despite how much they may act like you administratively. They disclose personal things, they laugh and cry with us - they even get pissed at you like us!
>
> Toph
Thanks for continuing to explore this. That makes sense, they may be able to act administratively, but they may not function as well as that sort of "outlet".--
> it seems to me that when Dr. Bob is here, there is the impression that the store is minded, the owner is taking pride and ownership in his "product"
>
> Even if in practice, when he's here, we might not like his tending.
>
> DinahI can see that, too. There's a difference between the owner and the deputies minding the store. But I do take pride in the deputies, too.
--
> Bob also has a sort of fascination(VERY vaguely for me, but perhaps more so for others) cuz he is in a position of owning the place.
> I just realized!!! LOL!!! I accuse Bob of watching US like we lab rats.....ROFL!!!! I think *I* do the same watching him!!!OMG ROFL!!!! This strikes me as hilarious!!!!
>
> MAnd a real insight, I think. Maybe there are posters who not only watch, but also "experiment" on me!
Bob
Posted by Toph on March 30, 2008, at 13:24:50
In reply to Re: the presence of it's founder, posted by Dr. Bob on March 30, 2008, at 12:36:49
> That makes sense, they (deputies) may be able to act administratively, but they may not function as well as that sort of "outlet".
>
> Bob
>Not sure what you are implying here Bob. Deputies can't take the heat because they are not as skilled as you; they post as Babblers and you don't; they are more sensitive than you; they care more about what we think than you do, what?
Posted by 10derHeart on March 30, 2008, at 15:19:39
In reply to Re: the presence of it's founder » Dr. Bob, posted by Toph on March 30, 2008, at 13:24:50
Posted by muffled on March 30, 2008, at 22:24:13
In reply to Re: the presence of it's founder, posted by Dr. Bob on March 30, 2008, at 12:36:49
> I just realized!!! LOL!!! I accuse Bob of watching US like we lab rats.....ROFL!!!! I think *I* do the same watching him!!!OMG ROFL!!!! This strikes me as hilarious!!!!
>
> MAnd a real insight, I think. Maybe there are posters who not only watch, but also "experiment" on me!
*LOL! Proly do too! Ha!!!
But the aspect of it that is mighty different would likely be what is the motivation for observing?
MY motivation to observe Bob, comes from a self protective POV. Bob has power by virtue of owning the site, so its good to keep and eye on him. Its also safer to try and know how he ticks so as to not let him hurt me. Maybe an internet version of hypervigilance!
However, there is also a wish to better understand how this site owner ticks, in that maybe then a person can possibly better find ways to communicate w/him that he might possibly understand. This is in order to make the site safer/better for babblefriends and myself.
So many reasons to keep an eye on Bob!!!
What Bobs motivations are I do not know.
For all that I try to figger the guy...I have FAILED. He is still an enigma to me. LOL! But he don't scare me nearly as much as he used to. Maybe in part its that I be keeping a distance from babble at the moment.
Dunno.
Interesting anyhow.
M
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 31, 2008, at 18:43:09
In reply to Re: the presence of it's founder » Dr. Bob, posted by Toph on March 30, 2008, at 13:24:50
> > That makes sense, they (deputies) may be able to act administratively, but they may not function as well as that sort of "outlet".
>
> Not sure what you are implying here Bob.Sorry about not being more clear. I was thinking there may not be as much desire to please or vilify them. But I could be wrong...
Bob
Posted by AuntieMel on April 2, 2008, at 8:29:51
In reply to Psycho-Babble is dying - really. What a shame., posted by SLS on February 21, 2008, at 5:59:43
I don't hang around here much because......
it's just not fun anymore.
I find myself having to be so, so careful of what I say.
And this isn't always from the administration. Often something I say innocently will be parsed to death and taken wrong by another poster. Then others jump to the support of the 'offended' one and I feel left out to dry.
So - what I have left is BOOOORRRINGGG - to me and to others.
Nutshell - it became more trouble than it was worth.
Posted by caraher on April 6, 2008, at 20:06:02
In reply to Re: allowance for imperfection » Dr. Bob, posted by Sigismund on February 22, 2008, at 23:32:36
One measure of "how much imperfection" to allow is whether an alleged incivility or insensitivity does in fact disturb anyone enough to click the "Notify" button. Reporting a post is anonymous, so there should be no worry that someone offended might not report a post for fear of repercussions.
It's pretty clear that blocks and sometimes even PBC/PBS messages can be quite hard on some posters. If it isn't already the case that all PBC/PBS/blocks originate with someone reporting an offending post, perhaps it should be.
I'd also like to add that people who know me generally consider me exceptionally civil and sensitive. I haven't racked up a PBC or block yet, but I have received a few PBS reprimands, the most recent for indicating my opinion that John McCain probably would be a better president than George W. Bush. I have an extremely hard time imagining many sets of people not including Dr. Bob who would find expression of that sentiment notably "insensitive." There's probably much less ill feeling generated by dealing with genuine problems as they come up than in crafting a virtually incomprehensible set of rules in the vain hope of preventing every conceivably insensitive or uncivil post.
Posted by Sigismund on April 8, 2008, at 15:43:48
In reply to Re: allowance for imperfection, posted by caraher on April 6, 2008, at 20:06:02
It's been said that the civility rules were put into their draconian form after the second Bush election, when people were naturally throwing around some strong and adversarial opinions.
I don't know if this is true.
We make a distinction between beliefs that (of neccessity) oppose and perhaps exclude each other, and personal behaviour that excludes us.
At least I do.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 21, 2008, at 17:09:32
In reply to Re: allowance for imperfection, posted by caraher on April 6, 2008, at 20:06:02
> One measure of "how much imperfection" to allow is whether an alleged incivility or insensitivity does in fact disturb anyone enough to click the "Notify" button.
That's the direction I'd like to move, but it'll only work if enough posters are willing to click that button.
> Reporting a post is anonymous, so there should be no worry that someone offended might not report a post for fear of repercussions.
Just to be clear, notifications aren't totally anonymous, they come to us with posting names, but we do keep that information to ourselves.
> I haven't racked up a PBC or block yet, but I have received a few PBS reprimands, the most recent for indicating my opinion that John McCain probably would be a better president than George W. Bush. I have an extremely hard time imagining many sets of people not including Dr. Bob who would find expression of that sentiment notably "insensitive."
I'm sorry if that was hard on you. What if next time you just post that your opinion is that McCain would be a good president?
Bob
Posted by Sigismund on April 24, 2008, at 3:14:01
In reply to Re: allowance for imperfection, posted by Dr. Bob on April 21, 2008, at 17:09:32
>What if next time you just post that your opinion is that McCain would be a good president?
I don't think that's quite what he had in mind.
Please excuse me.
This is the end of the thread.
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