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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Happyflower on March 30, 2008, at 21:40:06
When you have one chat room (room 1) where not everyone is welcomed (like blocked posters), it has the potential to make others feel excluded, hurt and putdown. Even blocked posters have feelings too.
Having the power of choice can be taken against others too of excluding them on purpose.I was told chat room one is the main chat room, is that true? As far as I can remember we always started chat in room 2 so everyone can chat even blocked babblers.
There are private chat room that can easily be set up for those who are discussing such private things that don't want others to see.There are not enough chatters to even fill both rooms, so some will always be excluded from chat. Maybe it would be better to just exclude blocked posters totally, then to have a situation where they are hurt over and over again by being excluded from a select group every night.
There is a ignore feature that one can use to not have to read what a certain person says and still have everyone welcomed in the same room.
Some might not even know so...
I just want to say if Babblers want to include everyone, please use room 2 so everyone can join in. Even if chat is already started in room 1, maybe suggest to other chatters that you would feel better about not excluding others from chat and to use room 2.I am having a really rough time ( the bottom) and it would have been nice to talk to others when I needed support, but instead I was forbidden the chance to get that support from fellow chatters because they were in room one and either didn't know I as in room 2 by myself. Yes I was blocked, but should I be shunned too? Sometimes I was lucky and some were in room 2 when I need support.
It hurt me to feel excluded and to feel punished. Some might think I am projecting, but doesn't it hurt anyone to be excluded from any group that you would want to be a part of?
Are blocked posters feelings less important? Am I such a bad person that can't be forgiven because I might have made some mistakes?. I am not perfect, I am here because I have personal mental issues, like must of us,but are those mistakes going to be held against me forever, even after I have changed? I have made mistakes, I have said I was sorry too. But I have also improved to be a better person, but it hard to have an incentive to do better when old stuff is help against you forever.
Would it have made some feel happy if I was never alive on this earth? Am I that bad of a person that is so hated that needs to disappear forever? Am I thought of as an abuser. If I am being thought of that way there is very little keeping me alive right now, and I don't ever want to be an abuser. If I took my life would anyone at all care? Would my mistakes still be forgiven if I am dead or would you come to my funeral and kick the gravestone too because I killed myself while being blocked? Is being blocked means you can never be forgiven ever? Am I the only person who has made mistakes here? Why can't I ever be forgiven I am not like my mom.
Posted by obsidian on March 30, 2008, at 23:26:28
In reply to Dr. Bob, question about chat... sucide triggers, posted by Happyflower on March 30, 2008, at 21:40:06
happyflower,
you are ALWAYS welcome in whatever chat room I'm in (I am not however there much these days)I'm sorry you're hurting so much right now.
Please be gentle with yourself, mistakes are only human...though I am not sure what you could have possibly done here that would cause you to feel that other wanted to banish you.
I'm sorry you couldn't find the support you need here right now. Please keep coming back.
((((happyflower))))
-sid
Posted by muffled on March 31, 2008, at 0:21:29
In reply to Dr. Bob, question about chat... sucide triggers, posted by Happyflower on March 30, 2008, at 21:40:06
Oh (((HF))) I was in chat 1 a few days ago and didn't know you was in rm 2, I came by to say bye cuz I heard you were in 2 and I was leaving. But I somehow stuck my foot in my mouth.
I am SO sorry you are hurting HF. NOONE ever deserves what happened to you. It was horrendous.
You are SO NOT your Mom, not even close. You have raised your children well from what I understand.
The only thing I can think of as to why a person would choose not to chat with another, is that they are feeling fragile, and knowing that the other one is feeling fragile too, they choose to not interact.
OF COURSE this can feel hurtful. Goes back to the think of how I would like everybody to like me. But not everybody does :-(
But thats the reality of life, not everyone gets along all the time...throw some mental health crap into it....ugh!
So when I am feeling excluded then I TRY(note that I say TRY, I am not always successful) to bring the adult in me forward and understand its NOT all about me that I am being excluded. Yes I likely have some part in it, but so does the other party involved. So I lay no blame, but just have to accept the way it is, and if there's anything I can do from my end to help, I will try and do it.(like I go to T, to try and figger why I such a nut).
So I beleive you are cared for here HF, its a hard hard struggle for you right now. Sometimes I can babble, sometimes the time I most need babble, I just can't , cuz I am too fragile and it ends up hurting me one way or another, so I stay away.
Please be safe HF. Your family needs you. I for one would like to see you be able to return to babble when your ready.
I don't know what to suggest bout chat, other than stay away from it. I tend to stay away from chat particularly when I am feeling vulnerable, cuz it just can go so wrong, so fast in there...it can be very triggery.
HF I wish I could somehow send a bolus of caring your way and make you understand your not bad, and that I know your working so very very hard on healing from the horrors of your childhood.
I think you can do this HF. The fact that you managed to make it this far says ALOT, and your smart. I just wish there was an easier way to go thru this stuff.
Best wishes to you HF. I honestly mean that. And I am very sincerely sorry if I have ever caused you to feel bad. I known you awhile now, I would never ever want to hurt you.
M
Posted by Sigismund on March 31, 2008, at 2:36:07
In reply to Dr. Bob, question about chat... sucide triggers, posted by Happyflower on March 30, 2008, at 21:40:06
I would be embarrassed to go into a chatroom from which blocked posters were excluded while the blocked poster was in the other room.
It wouldn't feel right to me, at all.
I went to a boarding school which gave me a lesson in social dynamics.
Posted by seldomseen on March 31, 2008, at 8:12:29
In reply to Dr. Bob, question about chat... sucide triggers, posted by Happyflower on March 30, 2008, at 21:40:06
I'm glad you brought this up for discussion again. I remember we had quite a hard time deciding whether blocked posters should even be in the chat room.
We reached a comprimise by creating a chat room where everyone could go and one where non-blocked posters could go.
I think the rationale behind it was in cases of harrasment, personal attacks etc... posters could still find a safe place to participate in the babble community.
However, you are right, there is an ignore function in the chat which I guess could help with safety.
I don't know what to think.
On a personal note, I am so sorry that you are having a rough time. recovery can be like sometimes I think. It's almost like we have to go to a very very dark place - full of trauma and hurt, before we come out to the other side.
This time will not last and you will re-emerge into light and love. Keep the faith.
Seldom.
Posted by Dinah on March 31, 2008, at 8:24:18
In reply to Dr. Bob, question about chat... sucide triggers, posted by Happyflower on March 30, 2008, at 21:40:06
I've brought this up to Dr. Bob before. I don't think he understands, or at least he feels differently than I do.
I'd feel pretty hurt myself. And I have on occasion. Not only here, but in real life. That's why I only chat in Room 2. So a lot of times, I don't chat at all because I see everyone's in Room 1. Which probably is better for my real life, since chat is my greatest downfall, timewise, at Babble.
It's one of those things at Babble that presses all sorts of old buttons. Feelings of exclusion, of being on the outside with my nose pressed to the window. Those feelings might be coming from old hurts, but that doesn't make them hurt any less.
I really am happy that Dr. Bob now allows blocked posters to chat. But I find the two rooms as distressing as you do.
And for the record, I really enjoyed our chat the other night. I am so impressed with the work you're doing in therapy right now. I'm a huge believer that people *can* change. Life would be a pretty sad prospect if there was no room for redemption. I've changed myself, and hope to keep changing.
I hope you feel free to come post on Psychology. I am interested to continue our discussion on ego strength work.
Posted by Dinah on March 31, 2008, at 8:29:39
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, question about chat... sucide triggers » Happyflower, posted by seldomseen on March 31, 2008, at 8:12:29
Also, harassment and personal attacks from blocked or unblocked posters can and should be reported to Dr. Bob.
That's why there's a fingerprint (or thumbprint, or whatever it is) at the top of each page. So that if you cut and paste a chat page into an email to Dr. Bob, he can verify that it's an unaltered copy of the original. Like forwarding a Babblemail through steps listed *in* the babblemail.
It does have to be emailed directly to Dr. Bob, though. Deputies have no ability to do check fingerprints.
And no, Dr. Bob doesn't save a copy of emails or chats. But there is something in the fingerprint that allows him to verify it anyway.
Posted by llurpsienoodle on March 31, 2008, at 8:41:57
In reply to Dr. Bob, question about chat... sucide triggers, posted by Happyflower on March 30, 2008, at 21:40:06
Hi HF,
Of course we'd care if you dropped off the face of this earth, and you know that there are many more people in real life that would be deeply impacted.There are many reasons why I chat and none of them has to do with hurting anybody else.
Being excluded and feeling excluded are somewhat different concepts. They are not perfectly correlated.
Similarly, being punished and feeling punished is different. I feel that blocks are a necessary evil to protect this sensitive community from incivilities. Does this mean that blocked posters deserve less support? Of course not.
Having said that, there are reasons why I would wish to have the option to chat without blocked posters present. If a post was "uncivil towards a particular person" [did I get the terminology correct? too lazy to look in archives...] then the "particular person" shouldn't feel that s/he must be wary of running into the blocked poster while chatting. Can you see how this might make someone feel insecure?
Should blocked posters be allowed to chat at all? If not, then the two rooms issue would be a non-issue.
I'm sorry you felt excluded. Take good care of yourself, because you ARE a good person.
-Ll
Posted by karen_kay on March 31, 2008, at 13:52:36
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, question about chat... sucide trigge, posted by Dinah on March 31, 2008, at 8:29:39
i never knew about that dinah. thanks for bringing that up!
Posted by karen_kay on March 31, 2008, at 14:05:01
In reply to Dr. Bob, question about chat... sucide triggers, posted by Happyflower on March 30, 2008, at 21:40:06
hey you! how are you? well, i guess i don't really have to ask that, do i? i have no beef with you. in fact, we've chatted somewhat recently and had no problems. btw, i hope you're still going to buy me a new car, as we discussed :)
you know, i like having 2 chat rooms. it's nothing personal against anyone, but sometimes people are triggering to others, and the ignore function tends to get confusing. i understand where you're coming from and i COMPLETELY sympathize withyou dear. i've been blocked. and it stinks when people are chatting in another room and you can't go in there. it's happened to me too. but, i guess the way i look at it is 'it jsut goes with the territory', you know? as much as it sucks, that's jsut the way it is.
at least most people are aware that blocked posters can only chat in room 2, and that is where most of the chatting takes place. but, there still should be an option for other people to be able to chat if they find some things triggering, you know?
i'm sorry if you felt excluded. that really does stink. but, the ignore function does get really confusing.
i'm sorry we disagree on this matter dear. and i'm not disagreeign, jsut to disagree with you. i've put the past behind me. and i think you've done the same.
i can say, that if i'm in chat (which is veyr rarely) and i see you there, i'm more than willing to join you.
again, i'm sorry you're hurting. and you deserve to be heard.
sincerely,
kk
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 31, 2008, at 19:34:50
In reply to Dr. Bob, question about chat... sucide triggers, posted by Happyflower on March 30, 2008, at 21:40:06
> Am I such a bad person that can't be forgiven because I might have made some mistakes?. I am not perfect, I am here because I have personal mental issues, like must of us,but are those mistakes going to be held against me forever, even after I have changed? I have made mistakes, I have said I was sorry too. But I have also improved to be a better person, but it hard to have an incentive to do better when old stuff is help against you forever.
Being blocked doesn't mean someone's a bad person. I do know it can be hard to free oneself from old stuff. Past blocks affect future blocks, but not forever. I'm glad you've improved, and I'm glad you're not blocked anymore.
Bob
Posted by Happyflower on April 1, 2008, at 16:43:22
In reply to Re: old stuff being held against you, posted by Dr. Bob on March 31, 2008, at 19:34:50
Hey, I will have to respond latter, I am not feeling the greatest right now. This is the first I have been able to look at the responses, I haven't read all of them yet, but I will.
Posted by Happyflower on April 2, 2008, at 19:54:21
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, question about chat... sucide trigge » Happyflower, posted by Dinah on March 31, 2008, at 8:24:18
> I've brought this up to Dr. Bob before. I don't think he understands, or at least he feels differently than I do.
Thank you for trying though, maybe he doesn't see the other angle to it, on how exclusion can be used to hurt others. It isn't anything new though, look what happened before the civil war, also when women couldn't vote, and exclusion still happens today too. It is almost never seen as a problem to those who do the excluding. But those who are excluded, knows how it feels. That is why I brought this up, on how I feel when I was excluded. It isn't a debate on whether my feelings are appropriate or not. Whether being excluded makes one feel excluded. I only stated how I FELT. But you get that by what you said below and I wanted to thank you for saying that.
One thing in therapy, I have learned how to FEEL fully and to express those feelings. I believe most of as at one time or another felt excluded at one time at least. It doesn't feel very good.
>
> I'd feel pretty hurt myself. And I have on occasion. Not only here, but in real life. That's why I only chat in Room 2.Me too, I think most do start in room 2. I think some don't even know that some can't chat in room one and just follow the lead of whoever starts the chat. This is why I posted this here, I hope to inform those who don't know.
So a lot of times, I don't chat at all because I see everyone's in Room 1. Which probably is better for my real life, since chat is my greatest downfall, timewise, at Babble.
This is what I saw just recently over the last couple of months. It is okay if you can walk away, but when you are doing really badly and you need someone to talk to, it can feel really bad. One thing also is usually blocked posters come in pairs or groups because of an argument and sometimes blocks happen when babble only sees's one side of the action. Babble doesn't always know why that person was triggered to write what got them blocked. They could have have been hurted first, and they were only reacting torwards that. Of course we hope that we can act like adults when that happens, but sometimes that is hard to do when we feel hurt.
I think almost everytime I was blocked it was because I was responding to being hurt by someone or something to begin with. People see your hurtful responses, but they don't know what caused the hurt in the first place. Hurt goes both ways. I have been told I hurt someone bad, but so was I. I don't go around hurting people without some action that provoked it. I have to learn not to let myself be provoked so much. The thing is when you have been at a site for as long as I have, people know your hot buttons, so it makes it hard sometimes to ignore it.
>
> It's one of those things at Babble that presses all sorts of old buttons. Feelings of exclusion, of being on the outside with my nose pressed to the window. Those feelings might be coming from old hurts, but that doesn't make them hurt any less.I also believe that no one can be 100% safe on a public chat room, if they are that fragile, maybe they should be in a private chat room. Because you don't know out of the thousands of members that might come into chat at the time. So keeping blocked posters which usually is only a small number of people will not be any kind of real safety.
>
> I really am happy that Dr. Bob now allows blocked posters to chat. But I find the two rooms as distressing as you do.
>
> And for the record, I really enjoyed our chat the other night. I am so impressed with the work you're doing in therapy right now. I'm a huge believer that people *can* change. Life would be a pretty sad prospect if there was no room for redemption. I've changed myself, and hope to keep changing.I enjoyed that night too, I feel you are real Dinah. We don't always see eye to eye, but one thing I have learned from you is forgiveness and understanding. And perhaps when after ego-strength therapy, I won't need to defend myself anymore, because it won't matter to me. I hope do be done with trauma therapy this summer and maybe start ego strength therapy in the fall. My T says it would be silly to do it now with all the triggers I have from the past. Wow, this is getting long so i better quit. ((((Dinah))) you are quite the woman! ;-)
> I hope you feel free to come post on Psychology. I am interested to continue our discussion on ego strength work.
Posted by Happyflower on April 2, 2008, at 19:57:51
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, question about chat... sucide triggers » Happyflower, posted by obsidian on March 30, 2008, at 23:26:28
Thanks sid,
I am doing a little better, but yeah, I got pretty low the last month. I was barely living, was a zombie of a person. Sometimes you just want a gentle voice to talk to. I guess one of my vices is to pretend to be okay, but this time I couldn't pretend anymore. If I didn't have my kids, I am not sure if I would even be here right now.
Posted by Happyflower on April 2, 2008, at 20:23:23
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, question about chat... sucide trigge » Dinah, posted by Happyflower on April 2, 2008, at 19:54:21
They could have have been hurted first, and they were only reacting torwards that.
****They could have been feeling hurt first, and they were only reacting to that.
> I think almost everytime I was blocked it was because I was responding to being hurt by someone or something to begin with.***I think almost every time I was blocked it was because I responded to feeling hurt by someone to begin with.
I don't go around hurting people without some action that provoked it.
***I don't go around hurting people with out feeling provoked.
> >
>
Posted by obsidian on April 2, 2008, at 21:44:42
In reply to corrections****, posted by Happyflower on April 2, 2008, at 20:23:23
I don't know quite how to say this...
but...I am impressed by you right now.
because it looks like you're really trying to consider different perspectives/own your feelings/use the "I" statements, etc, etc even though you're hurting.it's not easy to do
take care happyI just think you're pretty awesome
Posted by 10derHeart on April 2, 2008, at 22:05:35
In reply to Re: corrections**** » Happyflower, posted by obsidian on April 2, 2008, at 21:44:42
I **so** agree with obsidian, HF.
Glad, glad to see you back here.
I have learned from your posts in this thread - all of them. Thank you for being willing to do this. It's not easy to open yourself up here - or anywhere.
wow.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 3, 2008, at 9:39:45
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, question about chat... sucide trigge » Dinah, posted by Happyflower on April 2, 2008, at 19:54:21
> I think almost everytime I was blocked it was because I [responded to feeling hurt] by someone or something to begin with. ... Hurt goes both ways. I have been told I hurt someone bad, but so was I. I don't go around hurting people without some action that provoked it. I have to learn not to let myself be provoked so much.
Those cycles of hurt can be really destructive. And hard to break!
> one thing I have learned from [Dinah] is forgiveness and understanding.
The deputies and I can as a last resort block people, but I'd much prefer to see posters help each other to break those cycles. Or, even better, to be forgiving and understanding and to break them themselves.
Like you did with your corrections, thanks.
Bob
Posted by Dinah on April 3, 2008, at 10:06:07
In reply to Re: Dr. Bob, question about chat... sucide trigge » Dinah, posted by Happyflower on April 2, 2008, at 19:54:21
Thank you, Happyflower.
Posted by Happyflower on April 3, 2008, at 13:25:04
In reply to Re: Hurt goes both ways, posted by Dr. Bob on April 3, 2008, at 9:39:45
Thanks Bob,
This antique can learn new tricks afterall! lol But I want my scooby snacks too! ;-)
Posted by Happyflower on April 3, 2008, at 13:27:12
In reply to Re: corrections**** » Happyflower, posted by obsidian on April 2, 2008, at 21:44:42
Hey, thanks, I really didn't think much about it but it was nice for you to notice and say something. I am trying, always have, and I want to be a better person same day.
Posted by Happyflower on April 7, 2008, at 11:49:34
In reply to Re: Hurt goes both ways, posted by Dr. Bob on April 3, 2008, at 9:39:45
Thanks for your words, I am sorry if my response was a little flippid. I guess knowing the problem will help me change for the better.
HF
Posted by Sigismund on April 8, 2008, at 15:28:10
In reply to Re: Hurt goes both ways » Dr. Bob, posted by Happyflower on April 7, 2008, at 11:49:34
Que significa flippid?
This is the end of the thread.
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