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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Quintal on March 16, 2007, at 20:52:59
In reply to Please be civil » Quintal, posted by Dinah on March 16, 2007, at 9:27:22
Okay Dinah, I apologize if any of my comments made someone here feel put down. It is a very sensitive subject and emotions can get can get ride high in debates like this. Maybe it should be transferred to the Psychology board?
Q
Posted by FredPotter on March 16, 2007, at 20:53:00
In reply to Re: Please be civil » Dinah, posted by Quintal on March 16, 2007, at 12:53:28
I think this thread has been most informative and represented a wide range of views. OK some views were mulscularly expressed but the people taking part seemed tough enough to engage in a tough argument. It would be a pity to curtail such threads because of "offense" where none was present.
Incidentally normal gets confused with the central tendency of statistics. A lot of people hower say homosexuality isn't natural. Well I say it must be or it wouldn't happen.
Fred
Posted by Quintal on March 16, 2007, at 20:53:04
In reply to Re: Please be civil, posted by FredPotter on March 16, 2007, at 15:48:41
So we're all tough guys here Fred?
I agree, homosexuality is natural - I used that same idea when arguing with virtual homophobes in my mind when I was a teenager. I think Einstein once said "Everything that exists is natural, therefore I myself must be natural since I am a product of nature." Or something like that. I can't find the quotation, but it was very inspiring to read at a time when I was struggling with the "snot natural" protagonists.
Q
Posted by Phillipa on March 16, 2007, at 20:53:06
In reply to Re: Scientology, Homosexuality, and its tentacles » Phillipa, posted by FredPotter on March 15, 2007, at 23:11:17
Fred well I worked with my best friend the homosexual and he was married with two kids . He was Mr. Mom his wife had the good paying job. And I guess maybe they might have both been homosexual but both wanted kids? Love Phillipa
Posted by yxibow on March 16, 2007, at 20:53:07
In reply to Please be civil » yxibow, posted by Dinah on March 16, 2007, at 9:33:22
> > I don't know about homosexuality but the failed science fiction right is persuasive, just look at the many web sites they own, non-FDA "e-meter" devices and levels one has to climb and wierd science fiction references to Xenu, all now an official religion in the US, because the IRS wasn't able to stand up to their high powered lawyers and secret internal monitoring bureau (paid by the ponzi scheme that Scientology does to get people to give money to get to these levels and secret papers, some leaked and multiple lawsuits) and dismiss them as not being a religion and ultimately making them tax exempt.
>
> I have made a general request on this thread to please don't post anything that could lead others (including Scientologists) to feel accused or put down.
I'm only telling the truth. They are only now a religion because the IRS failed to make a case against their strong lawyers among other things tax evasion in the 1980s. It now is a listed religion, yes, but I'm telling its past. Its no different then telling how Jim Jones killed hundreds of people in Guyana. So maybe there are people who belong to cults like Jim Jones', I'm telling things factually.I knew this would eventually lead to a please be civil.
The facts currently stand that Scientology is not recognized as a religion and /or a bona fide registered charity or some form of legislative action has been taken or pending in a number of countries in Europe and elsewhere including Belgium, France, Great Britain, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Spain, Israel and Mexico.You can read Germany's position here
http://www.germany.info/relaunch/info/archives/background/scientology.html
There are standing facts even if they have been denied by the corporation of Scientology that they did contribute notably and controversially to the death of Lisa McPherson.
It is a standing fact that L. Ron Hubbard wrote fairly unreadable and unremarkable science fiction books in the heydays of that era. He eventually formed what can either be described as a corporation, religion, cult, or none of the above, depending on where you live, and those are also facts.
It is a fact that several acquaintainces of my own spent and had money wasted by a business scheme called "The Forum" which was started by a Scientology follower to create his own money making venture.
It is also a fact that a past friend became a Scientologist in part I think to find some spirituality to escape his homosexuality. He is no longer one to my knowledge.
There are lots of facts out there but they are struck down constantly because Scientology has large money contributions from people such as Tom Cruise and John Travolta. These are also facts. They fund a considerable legal and investigative arm of Scientology. To the best knowledge I know, most religions on this planet do not have legal and investigative arms the size of Scientology. This is also a fact. It is a fact that some religions encourage "tithing", this is a concept of many Christian faiths and contributions are given often to Jewish organizations, etc. These are also facts. However, the last time that I checked, the Old and New Testaments could be bought on CD, audio tape, paperback, etc. They are not cloaked in secrecy. These are all facts.
I am trying to be as civil as possible because I am trying to describe something which can only be described with facts because it is such a controversial topic.
There is controversy in all religions on this planet, with their views on sexuality, women, evolution, birth and death cycles, and all the reasons that religion is a pervasive concept since time immemorial.
There is a place in society for religion -- but we all know what extremism of all sorts can do to people. There are presumably plenty of well-meaning Muslims in this world. There are also countries with populations skewed tremendously in the 0-25 year range, give or take, with unemployment exceeding 30% or more in that range. There are countries that need not be named on the embargo list in this country willing to donate to families in other countries as death payments so that one of their children can kill innocent Israeli, Iraqi, and other civilians as suicide weapons. This is a fact.
When will this world use religion as what it is meant to be, a positive voice for some who wish to seek answers that cannot otherwise be answered, and also use it for their own and only their own self thought so that others who do not believe in a faith, or who are agnostic, or believe in a different faith can live in peace?
Posted by yxibow on March 16, 2007, at 21:00:26
In reply to Re: Please be civil, posted by FredPotter on March 16, 2007, at 15:48:41
> I think this thread has been most informative and represented a wide range of views. OK some views were mulscularly expressed but the people taking part seemed tough enough to engage in a tough argument. It would be a pity to curtail such threads because of "offense" where none was present.
>
> Incidentally normal gets confused with the central tendency of statistics. A lot of people hower say homosexuality isn't natural. Well I say it must be or it wouldn't happen.
> Fred
I would have to agree it would also be pity to curtail threads as deep as this as I noted in my response because of their possible offense and controversy.I know I haven't been a member of this board since its beginning, but I have been a member for some time and in comparison to some threads, there havent been a lot of f- yous and other such indecentness. Yes, words have been exchanged but I think largely the threads have just expressed the generalized opinions and views of people of possibly controversial topics.
If you cannot discuss religion, politics, sexuality, mental illness, and a number of things that one's favourite "manners" column writer would say, then there is almost little left to engage in intellectually with others.
It is impossible not to offend someone (the age long modified quote of some of the time and all of time time). We all try our best to be civil in the sense that I find civility, which is to not directly and without a doubt point out an individual and attack them ad hominem or use them for the pleasure of Schadenfreude.
In fact I encourage people to examine that word
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude
It has no direct translation in english because it is as many German constructs are, a combination word. It is the ultimate and extreme opposite of civility.
-- tidings
Posted by FredPotter on March 17, 2007, at 3:08:02
In reply to Re: Please be civil » FredPotter, posted by yxibow on March 16, 2007, at 20:57:26
Bloody hell! Let's just discuss things as gently as firmly as we can
Fred
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 21, 2007, at 4:46:05
In reply to Re: Please be civil » Dinah, posted by yxibow on March 16, 2007, at 20:27:00
> > I have made a general request on this thread to please don't post anything that could lead others (including Scientologists) to feel accused or put down.
>
> I'm only telling the truth.I understand, the thing is, it isn't always civil to tell the truth.
> When will this world use religion as what it is meant to be, a positive voice
It could be debated, what religion is meant to be, but let's at least make these boards a place for positive voices...
Bob
Posted by Phillipa on March 24, 2007, at 22:52:52
In reply to Re: Please be civil, posted by FredPotter on March 16, 2007, at 15:48:41
Fred Potter I agree and read some that book last night too. Love Jan
This is the end of the thread.
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