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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 16 to 40 of 40. Go back in thread:
Posted by NikkiT2 on August 18, 2006, at 16:02:06
In reply to Re: Please be civil » gardenergirl, posted by cheesesteak on August 18, 2006, at 13:42:35
but you know what, Babble is *part* of that life.
Is it worse than online gaming? Worse than discussing reality TV? Worse tahn sitting in front of the TV all day watching daytime TV.
I am willing to put money on the fact I do more for my "community" than you, that I do more voluntary work (on top of a full time job in mental health). Do you spend a few hours a week, unpaid, trying to improve mental health services for you peers? To get laws changed? To advocate for others how to get the best care?
Until you do all of this, until you are respected nationwide for all the *very* hard (unpaid)work you do, please do not tell me I "have no life" for simply posting on an internet forum.
Thankyou
Nikki
Posted by Dinah on August 18, 2006, at 16:42:10
In reply to I have a great life.. happyflower, posted by NikkiT2 on August 18, 2006, at 16:02:06
Passions are a bit high, so everyone might want to scan their posts a few times before hitting that submit button.
Posted by cheesesteak on August 18, 2006, at 16:45:01
In reply to I have two general admin suggestions, posted by Dinah on August 17, 2006, at 19:12:08
Dinah, please elaborate on "radical acceptance".
Posted by wildcardII on August 18, 2006, at 16:55:02
In reply to I have two general admin suggestions, posted by Dinah on August 17, 2006, at 19:12:08
Posted by Dinah on August 18, 2006, at 16:59:04
In reply to Re: I have two general admin suggestions » Dinah, posted by cheesesteak on August 18, 2006, at 16:45:01
It's one of my favorite DBT skills.
But I think maybe I'm not as good as Linehan at describing it.
I'm afraid you've run up against one of my personal limitations. I can't define or explain things very well.
Posted by happyflower on August 18, 2006, at 20:38:47
In reply to Please be civil » happyflower, posted by gardenergirl on August 18, 2006, at 10:00:04
sorry didn't mean to be uncivil. Actually what I meant, didn't come acrossthe right way I wanted.
I am on the boards too, a lot, I was more talking about all the heated arguments on Admin. about the rules of the site. For me it is getting old, really, and that is why I don't want to come here (admin) anymore. I don't have the time to get involved in the "fights" or read about them.
I truely support what this site is about and am glad it is here, but I plan on staying away from certain areas . I think everything I said here was civil, to as much as I understand the rules (which are very confusing).It is really hard to keep up on the new rules especailly since there is not notification anything has changed and I dont' read the FAQ everytime I sign in.
So I hope this post is okay. I am almost scared to even post anything anymore. It seems so easy to mess up here. I hope nobody is offended. Sorry about the misunderstanding on my first post.
Posted by Phillipa on August 18, 2006, at 22:30:42
In reply to Re: Please be civil, posted by happyflower on August 18, 2006, at 20:38:47
Happy I know what you mean. I don't come here often either. And I only frequent a couple of boards too. Love Phillipa
Posted by Declan on August 19, 2006, at 1:53:35
In reply to I am glad I have got a life., posted by happyflower on August 18, 2006, at 7:50:56
Ya know, maybe there's two kinds of people who come to Admin.
Those who want a stoush (and those who want to watch) and those who say it sucks.
Posted by Gabbi~G~ on August 19, 2006, at 3:02:38
In reply to Re: I am glad I have got a life. » happyflower, posted by Declan on August 19, 2006, at 1:53:35
Posted by SLS on August 19, 2006, at 6:50:49
In reply to if these posts are triggering anyone, why read??? (nm), posted by wildcardII on August 18, 2006, at 16:55:02
I guess you don't find out they trigger you until after you get done reading them. Besides, it feels good to get emotionally engaged sometimes, even if the primary emotion is anger. It is stimulating.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on August 19, 2006, at 9:23:18
In reply to Re: I have two general admin suggestions » cheesesteak, posted by Dinah on August 18, 2006, at 16:59:04
Ok, my best shot at defining it is that it is accepting reality for what it is, without judgement. It doesn't mean approving of reality. It just means accepting that it *is* reality.
It doesn't even mean that you can't take realistic steps to change the present reality. But it does mean evaluating those steps in terms of reality.
As an example, and hopefully those with Eastern philosophy training or DBT training would correct me if I was wrong, suppose you have a mother who you have never been able to have a good relationship with. Radical acceptance would mean accepting that your mother is who she is, and that she's not the mother you wish to have, or that you might deserve to have, or that it would be fair to have. And no matter what you do, or how well you treat her, or how much you beg her, she will always be who she is. Just like the wind will always blow and the sun will always shine.
It doesn't mean that you approve of getting a mother who isn't the mother you want.
It doesn't mean you can't try to change the rules of your engagement with your mother.
It just means that you accept that what is, is.
Nothing terribly profound. I meant nothing unkind or sarcastic by it. I just saw that people were getting upset and was suggesting alternatives, that's all.
Posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2006, at 9:38:55
In reply to Re: I have two general admin suggestions, posted by Dinah on August 19, 2006, at 9:23:18
Dinah,
You wrote,[...I meant nothing unkind or sarcastic..I saw that people were getting upset...].
Could you write a statement here that you are rulling out that others could have a legitimate cause to think that I am any cause for others here to get upset? If not, could you post what in your opinion could give a legitimate cause for other to be upset by whatever it is about me?
Lou
Posted by Dinah on August 19, 2006, at 9:57:18
In reply to Lou's request to Dinah » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on August 19, 2006, at 9:38:55
No, that was not my point.
I thought I made that clear.
Posted by wildcardII on August 19, 2006, at 10:31:52
In reply to Re: if these posts are triggering anyone, why read, posted by SLS on August 19, 2006, at 6:50:49
but when it is a continuing thing, some do not seem comfortable with it and it becomes like wildfire :-)
Posted by laima on August 19, 2006, at 17:24:44
In reply to Re: I have two general admin suggestions, posted by Dinah on August 19, 2006, at 9:23:18
Wow, you are lucky to find DBT therapy. I've been trying, but the groups I've located have not been accepting new people.> Ok, my best shot at defining it is that it is accepting reality for what it is, without judgement. It doesn't mean approving of reality. It just means accepting that it *is* reality.
>
> It doesn't even mean that you can't take realistic steps to change the present reality. But it does mean evaluating those steps in terms of reality.
>
> As an example, and hopefully those with Eastern philosophy training or DBT training would correct me if I was wrong, suppose you have a mother who you have never been able to have a good relationship with. Radical acceptance would mean accepting that your mother is who she is, and that she's not the mother you wish to have, or that you might deserve to have, or that it would be fair to have. And no matter what you do, or how well you treat her, or how much you beg her, she will always be who she is. Just like the wind will always blow and the sun will always shine.
>
> It doesn't mean that you approve of getting a mother who isn't the mother you want.
>
> It doesn't mean you can't try to change the rules of your engagement with your mother.
>
> It just means that you accept that what is, is.
>
> Nothing terribly profound. I meant nothing unkind or sarcastic by it. I just saw that people were getting upset and was suggesting alternatives, that's all.
Posted by Jost on August 19, 2006, at 18:21:08
In reply to Re: if these posts are triggering anyone, why read, posted by SLS on August 19, 2006, at 6:50:49
> I guess you don't find out they trigger you until after you get done reading them. Besides, it feels good to get emotionally engaged sometimes, even if the primary emotion is anger. It is stimulating.
>
>
> - Scott----- Guess you have to decide if, on balance, the likelihood of being triggered is outweighed by the desire to know whether you'll be triggered, and ifso, how much?
Jost
Posted by Toph on August 20, 2006, at 11:47:54
In reply to I have two general admin suggestions, posted by Dinah on August 17, 2006, at 19:12:08
What would happen if the administration practiced this philosophy also, radical acceptance of all posts? Chaos, I suppose.
Posted by Dinah on August 20, 2006, at 11:49:51
In reply to Re: I have two general admin suggestions » Dinah, posted by Toph on August 20, 2006, at 11:47:54
It's more of a zen thing than an administrative procedure, Toph. I practice radical acceptance all the time on admin. :)
Posted by Toph on August 20, 2006, at 13:38:47
In reply to Re: I have two general admin suggestions » Toph, posted by Dinah on August 20, 2006, at 11:49:51
> It's more of a zen thing than an administrative procedure, Toph. I practice radical acceptance all the time on admin. :)
>
>
I think I understand what you are suggesting, Dinah. But it sounds like you are advocating extreme acceptance of posters. God knows you have exhibited acceptence of me over the years, despite my labile moods. But I don't believe that you have always exercised radical acceptance of posts; a block and other sanctions I view as radical rejection of a post.
Posted by gardenergirl on August 20, 2006, at 14:13:05
In reply to Re: I have two general admin suggestions » Dinah, posted by Toph on August 20, 2006, at 13:38:47
Radical acceptance doesn't mean anything goes. It means cognitively accepting that the reality and operating conditions you are in ARE the ones you are in. Wishing something was different or beating your head against the wall about it or directing a great deal of your energy trying to change reality would mean you are not accepting the conditions. And you would be investing a great deal of emotional, cognitive, and perhaps physcial energy that can cause increased stress or could be used in ways that are more meaningful to you. (hypothetical "you") It's more of a way to manage emotions when there are things that are outside of your control.
So as a deputy on admin, radical acceptance could involve accepting that even though you wish that no one ever posted anything that put anyone else down or otherwise did not follow the rules of the site, these things DO actually happen. Getting upset about it sucks up emotional energy that would be freed up if I accepted that this was going to continue to happen, and I was going to continue to have to take administrative actions as long as I am a deputy. Even if I don't like something I have to do. Even if I wish sometimes that somebody (hypothetical "somebody") would just stop or just "get it". Radical acceptance would help me realize that someone is NOT stopping and may not EVER "get it". Or chooses to act they way they do. Despite how much I might wish things were different.
Hope that helps.
gg
Posted by Toph on August 20, 2006, at 14:50:49
In reply to radical acceptance » Toph, posted by gardenergirl on August 20, 2006, at 14:13:05
I think I get it gg, thanks. So if Dinah posits that we envoke radical acceptance this means that we should endeavor to accept the idiosyncracies of our fellow posters and the failings of the administration as just the way is is?
Perhaps if I used this my my work with abused and neglected clients I wouldn't be so fried.
Posted by Dinah on August 20, 2006, at 14:57:46
In reply to Re: I have two general admin suggestions » Dinah, posted by Toph on August 20, 2006, at 13:38:47
I think I used a mother as an example. And said that radical acceptance means accepting that the mother was who the mother was. But that it was not contrary to radical acceptance to set boundaries. :)
Blocks and sanctions are boundaries. Dr. Bob has said that certain things are and aren't allowed on his site. It isn't necessarily a lack of acceptance at all, and almost certainly not a lack of radical acceptance, just a statement of what is allowed *here*.
IMO, radical acceptance and boundary setting are both very healthy, and not at all incompatible.
Also, radical acceptance doesn't imply approval. Just acknowledgement that what is, is. Gardenergirl explained it better than I can.
However, I'll go further to say that I not only accept you in the more usual sense of the word, I like you. And if I ever sanction a post of yours, it isn't because I don't accept you or don't like you. I'm just helping Dr. Bob enforce the boundaries he has set for his site.
And this is really a personal question, and you don't have to answer, but I wonder if your parents were clear in separating acceptance of you from boundary setting and consequence enforcing? You really don't have to answer. :) I just have inferred that we have differing views on authority and I was interested in possible explanations for how people come to view authority differently.
Posted by Dinah on August 20, 2006, at 15:06:54
In reply to Re: radical acceptance » gardenergirl, posted by Toph on August 20, 2006, at 14:50:49
It really is a very nice module of DBT. I think I had this huge ah-hah moment recently about it. I was watching Linehan's video, and how accepting reality didn't mean approving of reality.
And I realize how often I just refuse to accept that things change, and made it one of my therapy goals to accept that change does happen and to deal with it as well as possible, while stating that I don't at all approve of it. And I don't have to approve of it to accept it. :)
We were doing self help DBT although we're a bit behind, towards the top of the Psychology Board screen, if you'd like to join us. All you'll have missed is Mindfulness, lesson 1, and the links are right there.
Now mind you, I'm not in any way suggesting that people stop trying to change admin rules that they think need changing. Or to stop thinking of new arguments for change, or new ways to explain arguments for change. Radical acceptance in that case might just mean accepting that however much I might wish that Dr. Bob would be struck with my wisdom, and change his mind, it's entirely possible that he won't.
Posted by Toph on August 20, 2006, at 21:54:11
In reply to Re: I have two general admin suggestions » Toph, posted by Dinah on August 20, 2006, at 14:57:46
I think that I and, I believe, most of us have acceptance of other posters as who they are, it's certain posts which cause reactions that often lead to uncivil interchanges. A breaking of our boundaries, if you will. Its not unlike what administrators do, only you have your own rules and authority, we have ours.
You asked about my parents and authority. This is very complicated. I think that my parents separated love from discipline and guidance well. Even though, for whatever reason, I was apparently never very certain of my parents' love for me. The latter problem is something years of therapy has yet to unravel. I'm sorry if this doesn't illustrate much.
Posted by Toph on August 21, 2006, at 10:21:25
In reply to Re: I have two general admin suggestions » Toph, posted by Dinah on August 20, 2006, at 14:57:46
This is the end of the thread.
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