![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 27 to 51 of 85. Go back in thread:
Posted by sleepygirl on March 2, 2006, at 23:11:36
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 22:32:51
I have missed you, and I am truly sorry
Posted by Dinah on March 2, 2006, at 23:19:53
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 22:32:51
Well, if I'm not mistaken, he thanked me for my devotion to Babble, not to him. :)
But Bob and Babble have always been inextricably wound together to me like the rose and the briar. So if I'm not devoted to BabbleBob then I must be nuts to spend the time and effort I do here. lol.
Yes, he doesn't have to do anything, in that he could shut down Babble tomorrow and not look back. But he's Bob, and he does have a sense of responsibility. True responsibility doesn't come from an external governing board anyway. As you should know, having been on the receiving end of extreme irresponsibility sanctioned by the external governing board. True responsibility comes from within.
Posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 23:35:18
In reply to Re: Ethics » 5, posted by Dinah on March 2, 2006, at 23:19:53
> But Bob and Babble have always been inextricably wound together to me like the rose and the briar. So if I'm not devoted to BabbleBob then I must be nuts to spend the time and effort I do here. lol.
yeah. i think you have talked about how if he left then you would too. in fact... i think a fair few people said that. and that tends to happen... has happened on another board when the clinician attempted to reduce their input.
> Yes, he doesn't have to do anything, in that he could shut down Babble tomorrow and not look back.
yeah. or he could piss off for a week or so and leave things in the hands of a new moderator. or whatever. he can do whatever he wants.
> he does have a sense of responsibility.
you mean... thus far he has turned up fairly reliably when things started to turn to custard. sure. i've seen that too. but he doesn't HAVE to. but it isn't even about that. i was getting at real life conduct. off these boards. contact people have with him of these boards. if people think he HAS to behave ethically because there will be consequences for him if he does not... well my point is what consequences? there aren't any. he isn't our clinician... he has no duty of care at all. he can do whatever he likes. but i don't think people grasp this... because he is 'dr' bob.
> True responsibility doesn't come from an external governing board anyway. As you should know, having been on the receiving end of extreme irresponsibility sanctioned by the external governing board. True responsibility comes from within.
yeah...
would you see a councellor if you knew they didn't come under an ethical board (so there would be no consequences for unethical behaviour)
would you?
i'd be out of there on first meeting...
yeah he says 'i have no duty to you i'm not your doctor'
but...
he is 'dr' bob.
he puts his pic up
he posts his one liners
he encourages people to process transference issues
etc etc
Posted by Dinah on March 2, 2006, at 23:36:40
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 23:35:18
Posted by Deneb on March 2, 2006, at 23:50:23
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 23:35:18
Dr. Bob!
There are adverse reactions all over the place. I think 5 had one. 5 is right, you can do whatever you want to do. Adverse reactions don't matter because they don't get reported to anyone besides you and you don't seem to do anything about them. Adverse reactions are important. I think you need to acknowledge them.
5 is right about that transference thing too.
Dr. Bob, I really think you need to conduct a poll about how much blocks hurt people, both the blockee and posters.
Dr. Bob, you also need to admit to making mistakes. Sometimes your blocks, (e.g. in 5's case) don't make sense at all.
This turns blocking into random punishment IMHO. That turns up the stress factor 100%. Soon we will learn to be helpless.
Deneb
Posted by Dinah on March 2, 2006, at 23:52:42
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by Deneb on March 2, 2006, at 23:50:23
I feel like Linda Blair.
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on March 3, 2006, at 0:30:41
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 23:35:18
I'm not sure that I agree that Bob is not subject to ethical guidelines. Although I am more familiar with the ethical guidelines for psychologists, I suspect the psychiatrists have similar ones. Ethics are not about enforcable laws (although there is overlap). Ethics are about how one conducts himself or herself professionally. There are many things that one can do that are unethical that are not illegal. And there are many things that are legal that are not ethical.
Psychiatry is a profession that you can't just "check at the door." You are a psych 24 hrs a day, like it or not. The ethics also follow you 24 hrs a day. For example, some professions, like mental health professionals, are mandated reporters of child abuse. Even if you are in a social setting, if you hear something that indicates child abuse you are ethically (and I think legally) bound to report it.
Like most folks on this site, I don't always agree with Bob's decisions. However, I do think that there are limits to his "power" (not sure what word would be best) and that there is some level of accountability even on the internet.
Best,
EE
Posted by muffled on March 3, 2006, at 1:30:39
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 22:24:03
Posted by Sobriquet Style on March 3, 2006, at 6:19:12
In reply to Re: Ethics » JenStar, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 21:05:05
>Do you think that is acceptable?
So you think that it is acceptable that Dr Bob doesn't have to answer to a relatively objective body regarding his conduct on the boards?>I...
Think that he is asking one hell of a lot.
Would you accept it if you were told your potential psychotherapist wasn't a member of an association that has a governing authority regarding ethical conduct (with consequences for unethical conduct such as loss of lisence)?>I would not.
Dr Bob, isn't your potential psychotherapist though, right?
~
Posted by Sobriquet Style on March 3, 2006, at 6:22:33
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 23:35:18
>would you see a councellor if you knew they didn't come under an ethical board (so there would be no consequences for unethical behaviour
Does Dr Bob counsel here, has he counselled you?
~
Posted by Sobriquet Style on March 3, 2006, at 6:45:28
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by Sobriquet Style on March 3, 2006, at 6:22:33
>E-Therapy: Case Studies, Guiding Principles, and the Clinical Potential of the Internet
Do you feel the above is related to this website? Eg, is this site a from of E-therapy, a case study and a clinical website?
Or, is it not, and simply a link to your book?
Finally, are you called Dr, because you have a Phd?
:-)
~
Posted by AuntieMel on March 3, 2006, at 10:37:55
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by 5 on March 2, 2006, at 22:03:06
Is it possible that you were hurt because you have some transference issues, too? Maybe in a way we all do.
----------------
my block...
i was extra hurt because it was him
and i trusted him--------------------
Posted by muffled on March 3, 2006, at 11:18:01
In reply to Re: Transference » 5, posted by AuntieMel on March 3, 2006, at 10:37:55
Just sometimes blocks feel so much like you been sucker punched, and it really pisses you off on a variety of levels when you get sucker punched.
Posted by AuntieMel on March 3, 2006, at 13:50:55
In reply to Re: Transference, posted by muffled on March 3, 2006, at 11:18:01
I am sure it does.
I am merely trying to talk to her on a logical level instead of an emotional one. Most of the time that's the type of discussion she prefers.
Posted by muffled on March 3, 2006, at 15:55:39
In reply to Re: Transference » muffled, posted by AuntieMel on March 3, 2006, at 13:50:55
Posted by Deneb on March 3, 2006, at 17:06:17
In reply to Re: I'm sorry » Deneb, posted by Dinah on March 2, 2006, at 20:29:09
> *My* Bob didn't mind. But he was a TV star, so maybe that makes a difference. You could ask Dr. Bob if he minds, or if it makes him uncomfortable. And if it does, then you can respect him by not doing what makes him uncomfortable. And if he doesn't, then I suspect the rest of us can stand it. And maybe even, if we let ourselves, reminisce a bit.
Do you really think that Dr. Bob will answer my question Dinah? What if he doesn't reply? Does that mean I can continue posting about loving him?
What if I asked him in person? Would he answer me? Does Dr. Bob actually answer questions and talk in real life? Will he talk to me? What will we talk about? Did you talk about current events? Will we talk about how Babble is run? I hope Dr. Bob talks to me. Does Dr. Bob answer personal questions? Will he answer interview-type questions?
If I ask him, "Dr. Bob, what gave you the idea to start up Psych-Babble?" Will he answer me?
What about, "What is the most difficult thing being an online moderator?"
What about, "Why did you choose to become a pdoc?"
What about, "How many countries have you been to?"
What about, "What is your favourite colour?"
What about, "Did I make you feel bad when I sent you all those threats?"
What if I apologize for making my threats, do you think Dr. Bob will acknowledge and accept my apology?
Will we make small talk? Will we talk about the weather?
Do you think Dr. Bob knows that my hamsters died?
Do you think Dr. Bob reads my posts, I mean really reads them, not just scan them?
Okay, that's a lot of questions. LOL
What if I say, "I love you Dr. Bob," in person. What will Dr. Bob say then?
Deneb
Posted by JenStar on March 3, 2006, at 17:40:25
In reply to Asking if Dr. Bob minds, posted by Deneb on March 3, 2006, at 17:06:17
Without knowing Dr. Bob, here's my guess:
He'll answer questions about why he started babble and why he became a pdoc, travel he's done. He will probably accept your apology, but will steer away from personal talk and details, or anything that might seem "therapy-ish."
Maybe you won't want to say that you love him when you meet him face to face, because the physical presence of him will be so different from the imaginary Dr. Bob that you love right now? Maybe you'll see immediately that it would be kind of weird and strange and not even accurate to say that you love him, because you love the IDEA of him and not the REAL person?
I think it's important to keep in mind that you're meeting him as the moderator of this board, NOT as a therapist, penpal, on-line friend, or doctor. So it won't QUITE be as personal as you'd (probably) like.
Again, that's my guess, based on what a "typical" person might do in such a situation. It's also based on what *I* would probably do if I ran such a board and had agreed to meet members. As a way of self-protection, and a way of protecting members from getting too attached, I'd probably have to stay somewhat detached from them as people, no matter how interesting they were.
I could be totally wrong, of course. :) But I like to put forth my theories. :)
But I think you should expect the least so you don't end up disappointed.
JenStar
Posted by JenStar on March 3, 2006, at 17:48:13
In reply to Re: Ethics, posted by Deneb on March 2, 2006, at 23:50:23
Deneb,
it worries me when you write posts like this. It seems (and correct me if I'm wrong) that you might be implying that posters here have no personal responsibility for owning their own emotions or responses to blocks, or even for writing the things that get blocked in the first place.Are you implying that Dr. Bob, as the one who assigns blocks, is totally responsible for the state of mind & emotional unheaval of the blocked parties?
To me, that is sort of like saying that people who commit crimes should not have to go to jail because it will upset them. Or that Olympic athletes who are caught doping or taking steroids should not have medals taken away (even if they know it would happen if they got caught) because it will make them desperate and possibly suicidal. The deal is, this site has rules about posting, and everyone knows what they are. We can choose to familiarize ourselves with the rules, and can choose whether to break them or not. And then it's up to us to face the consequences. Right? I just don't get why people are making this so personal about Dr. Bob...
What about personal responsibility?
JenStar
Posted by Deneb on March 3, 2006, at 18:04:23
In reply to Re: Ethics » Deneb, posted by JenStar on March 3, 2006, at 17:48:13
> Deneb,
> it worries me when you write posts like this. It seems (and correct me if I'm wrong) that you might be implying that posters here have no personal responsibility for owning their own emotions or responses to blocks, or even for writing the things that get blocked in the first place.I think Dr. Bob should own up to his mistakes.
>
> Are you implying that Dr. Bob, as the one who assigns blocks, is totally responsible for the state of mind & emotional unheaval of the blocked parties?No, I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is that Dr. Bob should find out exactly how harmful blocks are and maybe change policies to make this place more supportive. This is supposed to be a *supportive* place to be. It would kind of defeat that purpose if one were to find out that say, 70% of people here were harmed by the blocks instead of helped. What if all that was needed was a reduction in lengths of blocks? Blocks seem to hurt a lot of people IMO, both the blockee and friends of the blockee, maybe even lurkers.
>
> To me, that is sort of like saying that people who commit crimes should not have to go to jail because it will upset them. Or that Olympic athletes who are caught doping or taking steroids should not have medals taken away (even if they know it would happen if they got caught) because it will make them desperate and possibly suicidal. The deal is, this site has rules about posting, and everyone knows what they are. We can choose to familiarize ourselves with the rules, and can choose whether to break them or not. And then it's up to us to face the consequences. Right? I just don't get why people are making this so personal about Dr. Bob...Rules to what end? What if the rules or the enforcement of the rules ends up defeating the very purpose of this site? Support and education. I dunno, maybe I just don't like rules. Maybe I should go back to usenet.
Maybe I have a bit of anarchist in me. ;-)
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on March 3, 2006, at 19:25:47
In reply to Re: Asking if Dr. Bob minds » Deneb, posted by JenStar on March 3, 2006, at 17:40:25
> Maybe you won't want to say that you love him when you meet him face to face, because the physical presence of him will be so different from the imaginary Dr. Bob that you love right now? Maybe you'll see immediately that it would be kind of weird and strange and not even accurate to say that you love him, because you love the IDEA of him and not the REAL person?
I think you're absolutely right JenStar. I don't love people in real life. (Except my family, but even then I don't really feel affection towards them). I think the most likely scenario would be that I would be too afraid to talk to Dr. Bob.
> I think it's important to keep in mind that you're meeting him as the moderator of this board, NOT as a therapist, penpal, on-line friend, or doctor. So it won't QUITE be as personal as you'd (probably) like.
There better be some interesting weather then. ;-)
> I'd probably have to stay somewhat detached from them as people, no matter how interesting they were.
I think that's too bad. What would be the purpose of meeting then?
> I could be totally wrong, of course. :) But I like to put forth my theories. :)
LOL, yes, I hope you're wrong. I don't think Dr. Bob will talk too much. I don't think he'll get personal either. I think he might start asking me about Canada and our weather. LOL Then I'll ask him about Chicago weather. ROFL
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on March 3, 2006, at 21:04:01
In reply to Re: Asking if Dr. Bob minds » JenStar, posted by Deneb on March 3, 2006, at 19:25:47
I love it when Dr. Bob comes on site and redirects stuff. I just love it so much. I love how he spends time here and how he reads a lot of posts.
He's been away for a few days now and I miss him.
I wonder what he thinks about? I wish I could get into his mind. I'm going to wish really hard for that. Maybe some magic will happen.
I wish I could be Dr. Bob for a typical day. I wonder what his life is like? I think he has a lot of friends. I think he's an outgoing type of guy.
Why am I so fascinated with Dr. Bob?
Has anyone else here been as fascinated with him as I am? Have there been other Babblers who "loved" Dr. Bob? What were they like?
I wish we could have fun together, like go to the zoo and eat ice cream.
I wonder what Dr. Bob thinks of this situation of me loving him? What do you think he thinks?
I love him so much. :-)
Awww, he's great. Smiling me.
I have an idea. :-) I'm going to get started on it tomorrow. I hope he likes it. :-)
Or, maybe it's a bad idea...
Dr. Bob, would you accept a gift from me?
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on March 3, 2006, at 21:51:58
In reply to Re: Asking if Dr. Bob minds, posted by Deneb on March 3, 2006, at 21:04:01
That was inappropriate of me to ask.
I don't really love you.
Sorry.
I think I just want attention.
Posted by sleepygirl on March 3, 2006, at 21:57:50
In reply to Re: Ethics » Deneb, posted by JenStar on March 3, 2006, at 17:48:13
Posted by Deneb on March 4, 2006, at 0:20:56
In reply to I'm sorry Dr. Bob, posted by Deneb on March 3, 2006, at 21:51:58
Dr. Bob,
I'm just really confused. I don't know if I really love you or not. I don't know if I sometimes post about this to get attention. I just don't know anymore. I think maybe I do actually like you very much at times and think you're my friend.
Dr. Bob, I was thinking of giving you a gift, but would it be inappropriate for you to accept it? I don't want to appear like a fool. Maybe it would be better if I gave everyone else the same gift. Yes, that is what I'll do....
Then it won't be inappropriate, because I'm giving everyone the same gift.
I'm going to try really hard to not be insane from now on. I don't want people to be afraid of me. I'm gonna try really hard to not be so insane with the love thing. I don't want you to be afraid of me. Don't worry, I would never stalk you.
I'm really relatively normal in person. I really am.
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on March 4, 2006, at 0:25:18
In reply to Re: I'm sorry Dr. Bob, posted by Deneb on March 4, 2006, at 0:20:56
> I'm really relatively normal in person. I really am.
Actually, on second thought, scratch that. I'm pretty abnormal in real life too. I don't even have any friends. I'm awkward and can't socialize properly. I'm just waaay more quiet and less dramatic in real life. I *promise*.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
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