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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 126 to 150 of 272. Go back in thread:
Posted by Deneb on January 20, 2006, at 14:42:55
In reply to Re: people are harmed here emotionally » Dr. Bob, posted by Deneb on January 20, 2006, at 13:56:09
OK Dr. Bob, another question for you.
Let's say you had a choice...
If you lose your little finger, Babble will forever be civil.
If you choose to keep your little finger, Babble will forever be uncivil.
Which would you choose?
Does the individual matter now?
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on January 20, 2006, at 15:03:17
In reply to Re: people are harmed here emotionally, posted by Deneb on January 20, 2006, at 14:42:55
Dr. Bob,
You belong to some ethics thing right?
Maybe you should give us all an ethics lesson.
The only ethics course I've ever taken was bioethics, aka medical ethics.
Seriously, if you explain your reasoning better, maybe people won't be so hard on you.
Deneb
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2006, at 16:50:42
In reply to Re: people are harmed here emotionally, posted by Toph on January 20, 2006, at 14:20:03
While I have no particular problem with language, since I curse like a sailor, I admit to being a strong supporter of the politics rules, and may have even helped convince Dr. Bob that they were needed.
I, as a conservative, was hearing things said about conservatives that made it very difficult for me to feel like part of this community.
And yes, I'm certain about the protection. I'm speaking of my own experience here, so please don't tell me I'm mistaking myself.
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2006, at 16:51:47
In reply to Re: people are harmed here emotionally » Dr. Bob, posted by Deneb on January 20, 2006, at 13:56:09
Maybe it would help if you thought of "community" as a number of individuals.
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2006, at 16:53:18
In reply to Re: people are harmed here emotionally » Deneb, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2006, at 16:51:47
What I mean is, it might help you judge Dr. Bob less harshly, if you think of community as a large number of individuals.
Posted by Deneb on January 20, 2006, at 18:05:44
In reply to Re: people are harmed here emotionally, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2006, at 16:53:18
> What I mean is, it might help you judge Dr. Bob less harshly, if you think of community as a large number of individuals.
I'm not angry at Dr. Bob anymore. My anger goes away quickly.
Here's my current explanation of things...
Dr. Bob *cannot* care for individuals because 1. there are simply too many of us, and 2. caring about individuals runs a risk of friendship developing. Dr. Bob cannot be friends with any of us here because he cannot form relationships with us.
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on January 20, 2006, at 18:09:24
In reply to Re: people are harmed here emotionally » Dinah, posted by Deneb on January 20, 2006, at 18:05:44
Can someone explain to me why Dr. Bob can't form relationships with us again?
I just want to make sure I'm on the right track.
Deneb
Posted by alexandra_k on January 20, 2006, at 18:17:17
In reply to Re: people are harmed here emotionally, posted by Deneb on January 20, 2006, at 18:09:24
> Can someone explain to me why Dr. Bob can't form relationships with us again?
because his role as moderator means that he needs to act in the interestes of the group as a whole.
if he was diverted from the group to a few individuals within the group then the group (as a whole) would suffer.
lets say (just for arguments sake) that he has around one hour per day that he has decided to use to help people.
he could talk to maybe one or two or three...
or he could moderate the boards where how many of us find benefit to helping and receiving help from one another?
but for it to stay that way... he needs to act in the interests of the group.
and it is not in the interests of the group for him to be diverted by individuals. and if the group disintegrates... then even those individuals who he may have temporarily helped... ultimately they will be harmed as the group falls apart.
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2006, at 18:18:09
In reply to Re: people are harmed here emotionally » Dinah, posted by Deneb on January 20, 2006, at 18:05:44
Can't Dr. Bob care about all of us as individuals but when you put all the individuals together, we're a community?
Posted by Declan on January 20, 2006, at 19:50:05
In reply to Re: people are harmed here emotionally » Toph, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2006, at 16:50:42
I think there's a community on Social, for example, but I can't for the life of me see how there is or can be a community on Politics, except a very partial quiet one, which may or may not be better than a bigger more unhappy fractious one. There are people who back each other up there, I guess.
Declan
Posted by Deneb on January 20, 2006, at 19:53:30
In reply to Re: people are harmed here emotionally » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on January 20, 2006, at 18:17:17
> and it is not in the interests of the group for him to be diverted by individuals.
Does caring about people really divert attention away from others? Does a mother give less love to each of her 5 children than 1? What if all that was needed was to care and not act? He doesn't have to show that he cares. He doesn't have to spend any time with individuals. Will a teacher be less able to care for a loved one if she/he decides to care about the children in her/his classroom?
I'm not talking about relationships here. I'm just talking about caring that a fellow human being is suffering. Go ahead and punish the person, but does a person have to be so indifferent to her/his suffering? Again, no actions required...just heart.
>and if the group disintegrates... then even those individuals who he may have temporarily helped... ultimately they will be harmed as the group falls apart.
Really? The group will fall apart if he thinks, "Gee, I hope (blocked poster) is OK. I don't want anything bad to happen to her/him."
Deneb
Posted by Deneb on January 20, 2006, at 19:58:32
In reply to Re: people are harmed here emotionally » alexandra_k, posted by Deneb on January 20, 2006, at 19:53:30
I know I don't really make sense in the above post.
I know that it is impossible to know whether or not one cares if one doesn't express this in any way.
Therefore, everything I wrote is pure speculation and there is no way to prove or disprove things.
Deneb
Posted by Toph on January 20, 2006, at 20:13:14
In reply to Re: people are harmed here emotionally » Toph, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2006, at 16:50:42
>
> And yes, I'm certain about the protection. I'm speaking of my own experience here, so please don't tell me I'm mistaking myself.I'm not certain about the protection. I, too, am speaking of my own experience here, and I don't understand what you mean.
I have always respected your experience, beliefs and intellect Dinah, though we differ on a few persectives. My struggles with authority go deep and, in part, are a derivative of experiences as a person with mental illness. To the extent that we both resist an attempt, if you will, by our brain chemistry to control us, we are kindred spirits no matter the differences in our ideologies.
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2006, at 20:25:43
In reply to Re: people are harmed here emotionally » Dinah, posted by Toph on January 20, 2006, at 20:13:14
In rereading it, my post didn't come out like I intended it. I'm sorry if I came across too defensively. :(
I wasn't suggesting disrespect on your part, just trying to say that...
Oh drat. My ability to convey what I wish to convey isn't at it's best.
I fear that if I try to clarify, I'll just insert my foot in farther.
Again, I'm sorry.
Posted by Toph on January 20, 2006, at 20:31:06
In reply to Re: people are harmed here emotionally » Toph, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2006, at 20:25:43
Posted by Toph on January 20, 2006, at 20:42:22
In reply to I'm sorry too (nm) » Dinah, posted by Toph on January 20, 2006, at 20:31:06
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2006, at 21:00:03
In reply to ^^for my part.^^ (nm), posted by Toph on January 20, 2006, at 20:42:22
Posted by alexandra_k on January 20, 2006, at 22:19:45
In reply to Re: people are harmed here emotionally » alexandra_k, posted by Deneb on January 20, 2006, at 19:53:30
> Does caring about people really divert attention away from others?
I never said that. I thought you were asking about why he didn't socialise with us. Sorry if I misunderstood.
> Does a mother give less love to each of her 5 children than 1?
what do you mean by 'less love'? if you are thinking about her being able to spend a lot of time with each of her children individually then there are only so many hours in the day. typically... when families get bigger brothers and sisters support and nurture each other more. older siblings do more to help look after the younger ones. because there are... only so many hours in the day.
i think he does care about us in the way that a teacher cares about their class.
> but does a person have to be so indifferent to her/his suffering?
sorry... i though he said that he did care that blocks hurt. perhaps you missed that post...
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 20, 2006, at 22:25:58
In reply to Re: people are harmed here emotionally » Dinah, posted by Toph on January 20, 2006, at 20:13:14
> I am sure that that Bob underestimates this mental health community's ability to handle words like *ss or criticism of political leaders ... I'm speaking of how unfortunate it is when interesting and helpful contributors feel uncomfortable remaining in a community where their expression is needlessly criticized and punished.
Individuals vary in willingness and ability to handle incivility. IMO, however, the larger the community, the greater the potential disruption. You see bigger waves in an ocean than in a bathtub.
I agree, it's unfortunate when someone feels uncomfortable. But it can be hard to make everyone happy. If they're looking for big waves, maybe they've come to the wrong place?
> My struggles with authority go deep
It's an interesting question, why people stay somewhere they feel uncomfortable. What is it they hope to gain?
Bob
Posted by Deneb on January 20, 2006, at 22:56:42
In reply to Re: people are harmed here emotionally » Deneb, posted by alexandra_k on January 20, 2006, at 22:19:45
sorry Alexandra about the tone of my post
I'm not making much sense, I know.
Don't know what to think anymore.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 20, 2006, at 23:05:53
In reply to Re: people are harmed here emotionally » alexandra_k, posted by Deneb on January 20, 2006, at 22:56:42
> sorry Alexandra about the tone of my post
thats okay. sorry if there was a tone in mine...
> I'm not making much sense, I know.
lol me neither ;-)
> Don't know what to think anymore.
hmm.
how about thinking that there are people here who care about you very much. and you know this because people email you and stuff. and you get people responding to your threads and stuff. and you get welcomed back after a block...and about dr-bob...
my guess would be that he does care about individuals the way that a teacher cares about the kids in her class. and he has said little things to that effect. he put your pic up... he has said he cared about us at various points... he is prepared to meet you in toronto even if you are the only one who is going.i think what can be hard is the idea that someone can care... and can know that their action will hurt another... but can still do it.
i mean... you know by now that some people get upset when you post about feeling low...
but you post about feeling low anyway. and that is okay.and i figure... dr bob knows by now that some people get upset when they are blocked... but he blocks them anyway. and that doesn't mean that he doesn't care. he does it because he believes that is best for the group as a whole. and he has to look after the group ahead of individuals. like how a teacher has to look after the class as a whole ahead of individuals. in the sense that... some kids will get suspended for distrupting the classroom.
it is a hard thing to grasp... and i think it is something that tends to come and go.
a while back you talked about making a list of things for yourself. a list of things that were evidence that he didn't hate you. did you ever get around to that?
Posted by Toph on January 21, 2006, at 11:46:37
In reply to Re: feeling uncomfortable, posted by Dr. Bob on January 20, 2006, at 22:25:58
>
> Individuals vary in willingness and ability to handle incivility. IMO, however, the larger the community, the greater the potential disruption.And IMO the larger the community, the greater the community's ability to handle such disruptions through such dynamics as peer pressure, conformity, social norms, etc.
>
>You see bigger waves in an ocean than in a bathtub.
I love it when you wax poetic Bob. You also see a greater variety of sea life in an ocean than in a bathtub. I'd rather be in an ocean with a shark than in a bathtub with one.
>
> I agree, it's unfortunate when someone feels uncomfortable. But it can be hard to make everyone happy. If they're looking for big waves, maybe they've come to the wrong place?
I come to Psycho-Babble not to agitate but rather to associate with others like myself. I expect to find on a mental health site some who have difficulty with their moods, impulses, thoughts and ability to interact with others. It disappoints me greatly that this is more like an aquarium with select fish than a mental health ocean, to beat your analogy to death. I have seen people who come here on occasion with delinquent intent. Invariably the group has acted effectively in protecting the community from these disruptions. The individual's lack of investment in this culture seems to cause them to lose interest eventually and move on to other opportunities elsewhere. Ironically, in my experience, it is not the administrative interventions that force these individuals to leave.> >
> > My struggles with authority go deep
>
> It's an interesting question, why people stay somewhere they feel uncomfortable. What is it they hope to gain?
Did you mean to ask this question of me personally or to make some rhetorical
statement about like it or leave it? If you did, as I have said in the past, I came here out of curiosity. I stayed here because of two main reasons, 1) because after managing to control my bipolar illness with medication I sort of denied my chronic mental illness identity for years which I rediscovered here. I enjoyed coming out of the closet, if you will. 2) I have met some fascinating people here (I'd include you in that group, but I think that intriguing would be more apropos adjective for you). Maybe I'm wrong, but I do not think I am here to fight, my deep authority issues notwithstanding.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 21, 2006, at 17:07:01
In reply to Re: feeling uncomfortable » Dr. Bob, posted by Toph on January 21, 2006, at 11:46:37
> > IMO, however, the larger the community, the greater the potential disruption.
>
> And IMO the larger the community, the greater the community's ability to handle such disruptions through such dynamics as peer pressure, conformity, social norms, etc.I disagree that dynamics are sufficient. They help, but aren't always enough even in small groups that meet in person.
> >You see bigger waves in an ocean than in a bathtub.
>
> I love it when you wax poetic Bob. You also see a greater variety of sea life in an ocean than in a bathtub. I'd rather be in an ocean with a shark than in a bathtub with one.Me, too! :-)
IMO, an online ocean is different from a real ocean. Because it's more connected. The sea life can support each other more easily, but they're less safe from sharks, too.
Anyway, I think a question is whether it's possible to have the best of both worlds, the diversity of an ocean and the safety of a bathtub. Not as diverse as an ocean or as safe as a bathtub, but a mix of the two.
> > it can be hard to make everyone happy. If they're looking for big waves, maybe they've come to the wrong place?
>
> I come to Psycho-Babble not to agitate but rather to associate with others like myself.With sharks?
> It disappoints me greatly that this is more like an aquarium with select fish than a mental health ocean
If someone's looking for sharks, maybe they also have come to the wrong place.
> > > My struggles with authority go deep
> >
> > It's an interesting question, why people stay somewhere they feel uncomfortable. What is it they hope to gain?
>
> I stayed here because of two main reasons, 1) because after managing to control my bipolar illness with medication I sort of denied my chronic mental illness identity for years which I rediscovered here. I enjoyed coming out of the closet, if you will.Coming out of the closet *and* being accepted. Maybe some people stay, even though they feel uncomfortable, because they hope for acceptance. They see how accepting in general it is here.
And others know what it's like to be rejected. To be treated like a shark. So they empathize.
> 2) I have met some fascinating people here (I'd include you in that group, but I think that intriguing would be more apropos adjective for you). Maybe I'm wrong, but I do not think I am here to fight, my deep authority issues notwithstanding.
Maybe some are here to defend. Maybe to them I'm the alpha shark. Maybe they accept feeling uncomfortable because they consider it to be for a good cause.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 21, 2006, at 17:56:32
In reply to Re: Can we work together to figure out what to do?, posted by Dr. Bob on January 9, 2006, at 1:55:32
> > if Grief, for example, had evolved into a board where Grief was an active topic with a group of people seeking to explore the grieving process it makes sense. But if grief is just somewhere you're redirected to if a family member or friend dies and you seek to share it with your community, then it's just isolating.
>
> I have to agree ... Maybe it's just not going to work as a separate boardSo what if we keep it available, but automatically redirect any new posts to Social?
Bob
Posted by Toph on January 21, 2006, at 18:17:36
In reply to Re: sharks, posted by Dr. Bob on January 21, 2006, at 17:07:01
> >
> > I come to Psycho-Babble not to agitate but rather to associate with others like myself.
>
> With sharks?
I realize that the shark metaphor was mine, but I think you know I was speaking abstractly about posters who disrupt. Do you really think of me as a shark? Though I may have bitten a few people, I am hardly a predatory killer that others fear here. God, at least I hope not.> ...Maybe some people stay, even though they feel uncomfortable, because they hope for acceptance. They see how accepting in general it is here.
Yes, acceptance, that's important to me. And Babble is indeed a place where acceptance is commonplace.
> And others know what it's like to be rejected. To be treated like a shark. So they empathize.I'm too far down the food chain to understand this one. Maybe someone else can interpret for me.
>
> Maybe some are here to defend. Maybe to them I'm the alpha shark. Maybe they accept feeling uncomfortable because they consider it to be for a good cause.
>
> BobYou are alpha shark, Bob (so how's that T-shirt project coming?). And Babble is a good cause.
Toph
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