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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 173 to 197 of 197. Go back in thread:
Posted by AMD on June 27, 2005, at 20:03:32
In reply to Re: I-statements » AMD, posted by 10derHeart on June 27, 2005, at 16:54:08
> >> is a result of the ignorance and illiteracy of the reader more than incorrect semantics by the writer.
>
> Thanks - appreciate that description. I shall try not to misinterpret any more of your writing, or display my ignorance and illiteracy here. It must be a disgusting concept for you to have to deal with.
**********In my opinion, this is an example of what I'm talking about: in my opinion, you just pulled this inference out of thin air, that somehow I was talking about you (I don't even know who you are, actually). In my opinion you are mistaking my response to a particular statement (that being, why it's redundant, in my opinion, to include the letter "I" in every statement) as a personal attack on you, which was clearly not my intention. Are you denying that there are people in the world who don't understand that the statement, for example, "this is ridiculous" is obviously an opinion? I don't see, personally, how it could not be. We speak: we /are/ "I".
> I just don't know what to do about the fact I find choosing words like "disgusting", "ignorant" and "illiterate" which are highly "charged," as gg said before, to often be uncivil -yes, in and of themselves - when applied to ANY posters'
And guess what: that's /your/ opinion! And I respect it. Don't use "disgusting." Don't use "illiterate." Don't use "ignorant." But don't deny these are perfectly valid adjectives, nor deny /me/ the choice to use the word "disgusting" if that's what the statement calls for.
Seriously -- what's more offensive? Someone saying "disgusting" about something (NOT someone), or someone telling someone in particular (me) to basically shut up and to then choose words for him.
I don't like you telling me what I can or can't say. That's offensive.
Do I think you should be blocked? No. I doubt I'd ever ask Dr. Bob to block anyone, for any reason.
(See, "That's offensive" would have been perfectly reasonable here. No need to say "In my opinion," or "I think it's," etc.)
amd
Posted by 10derHeart on June 27, 2005, at 22:57:25
In reply to Re: I-statements » 10derHeart, posted by AMD on June 27, 2005, at 20:03:32
>> I don't like you telling me what I can or can't say. That's offensive.
I apologize for offending you. I didn't think I was telling you what you can or can't say, but if that's how it came across, I am sorry. I wouldn't like that either.
Thanks for not wanting me blocked. I don't want you blocked, either.
I shouldn't have posted any of this, despite my good intentions. It's proving too stressful for me.
My best to you, AMD.
Posted by 10derHeart on June 27, 2005, at 22:59:34
In reply to ((((((10derheart))))) (nm) » 10derHeart, posted by gardenergirl on June 27, 2005, at 17:43:51
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 28, 2005, at 10:08:05
In reply to Re: I-statements » 10derHeart, posted by AMD on June 27, 2005, at 20:03:32
> you just pulled this inference out of thin air
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. The last time you were blocked it was for 1 week, and I'm making this for another week.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
> I was always taught that using "I" in a statement was redundant, particularly when it's an opinion.
>
> e.g., in the statement:
>
> "The movie is offensive."
>
> The "I think" part that could prefix it is implied.Even if you consider it implied, it's still not really an I-statement:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040112/msgs/320097.html
Follow-ups regarding these issues, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by ugh on June 28, 2005, at 14:35:00
In reply to Re: blocked for week » AMD, posted by Dr. Bob on June 28, 2005, at 10:08:05
that is so f*cked up, dr. bob.
have the courage of your convictions. tofuemmy, dinah, and your touchy-feel-y approach to dialogue. it's lame. you must really have no self-esteem in that you need to bring down others because you can't handle anything too strongly worded. you are pathetic. people like you are the bane of a free, healthy society. i'm sure you're happy you've shut down numerous people multiple times: larry, chemist, others. well, you know what? their posts are infinitely more useful than yours have ever been, and if there were really any justice, you'd be the ones banned from the site, for hindering the useful dialogue of the actually insightful (as opposed to your banal ramblings, which consist, mainly, of complaining about words like "disgusting" or lack of the word "I" in every sentence) for nothing more than a few strong words. i hope you get the pain you're inflicting on others by preventning those actually helpful from communicating with the ones in need.
Posted by Dinah on June 28, 2005, at 16:51:27
In reply to lame, posted by ugh on June 28, 2005, at 14:35:00
Dinah here, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob.
I've blocked this posting name, and Dr. Bob will sort it out when he comes.
If you have any concerns about this block, please email them to Dr. Bob. His email address is at the bottom of each page.
Posted by TofuEmmy on June 28, 2005, at 18:07:58
In reply to lame, posted by ugh on June 28, 2005, at 14:35:00
Hmmm...let's see...
I feel so sad when you say I am pathetic.
I feel ticklish when you say I am the "bane of a free, healthy society".
I feel stupified when you imply I've done anything against Chemist.
I feel artistically stunted when you refer to my posts as "banal ramblings".
I feel grossed out when you wish for me to experience pain.
I don't know you, but I hope you find happiness.Emmy
Posted by gardenergirl on June 28, 2005, at 19:20:13
In reply to Re: lame » ugh, posted by TofuEmmy on June 28, 2005, at 18:07:58
Posted by jay on July 5, 2005, at 16:57:51
In reply to Re: How to build a Zen..Dr. Bob...please review.. » jay, posted by Gabbi-x-2 on June 14, 2005, at 16:58:40
> > > Especially when this unfair treatment comes from a man. And most especially when the man is supporting another man who repeatedly broke the rules. Women who have been abused by men in the past are particularly sensitive to unfair treatment from men. It raises the hackles on our collective necks.
> > >
> >
> > I feel quite put down in your assumption of one man being like all men. I believe it is sexist, and if I where a man saying that about woman, I would be stompped upon. Dr. Bob I am asking you to look into this, and provide a response. Thank you,
> >
> > Jay
>
> Where in that post is it insinuated or assumed that one man is like all men?
> I fail to see that. I fail to see the sexism.
> To me it's no different than a man saying "a man who was abused by his mother in the past is likely to be sensitive to any similar treatment by a women"
> I don't believe any man would be "stomped" on for making that statement.
>
>What makes the difference is the first sentence. "when this unfair treatment comes from a man." Replace man with Jew/coloured...even woman..and it smacks of generalization. No, it is not acceptable.
Jay
Posted by TofuEmmy on July 5, 2005, at 17:45:12
In reply to Re: How to build a Zen..Dr. Bob...please review.. » Gabbi-x-2, posted by jay on July 5, 2005, at 16:57:51
Jay - I can see from your perspective why that first sentence sounds bad. Let me explain a bit.
At the time, I felt that *I* was being descriminated against. Larry was ignoring my request, and Dr. Bob was ignoring my email to him. I felt like Bob and Larry had sorta ganged up against me by ignoring me. That's why I posted - I felt ignored by both men. That is difficult for me since we live in a society which favors men in salaries, power positions, etc. I felt disenfranchised. That's when I posted my diatribe.
Had Dr. Bob replied to my emailed request, this never would have happened. Had Larry either not posted to me, or indicated that he thought my request was invalid - this never would have happened.
I agree that Larry's block is too long. But to blame me for this block, IMO, is unfair. The only thing I regret is not asking a friend of his to remind him to stop posting to me. However, since he now states that he thinks my request was invalid, I don't know if he would have respected that additional request.
Jay, I too am a strong supportor of my pals, so I certainly understand your strong feelings. I think your kind support of your friend is commendable.
emmy
Posted by crushedout on July 6, 2005, at 13:52:23
In reply to Explanation » Larry Hoover, posted by Dinah on June 13, 2005, at 9:23:44
> To me, the difference was the use of the word "you" in the body of the post, in a context where you seemed to be addressing a comment to Emmy.
Dinah, I reread Larry's post, and I can't find where he said the word "you" anywhere. I'm confused.
Posted by All Done on July 7, 2005, at 1:08:18
In reply to Re: How to build a Zen..Dr. Bob...please review.. » jay, posted by TofuEmmy on July 5, 2005, at 17:45:12
Posted by AuntieMel on July 7, 2005, at 8:26:48
In reply to Re: How to build a Zen..Dr. Bob...please review.. » jay, posted by TofuEmmy on July 5, 2005, at 17:45:12
I just hate it when two people I have fun chatting with are on the outs. I just wish I could do something to make it better. Like kissing the boo-boo used to do.
Posted by gabbii on July 8, 2005, at 4:54:34
In reply to Re: How to build a Zen..Dr. Bob...please review.. » Gabbi-x-2, posted by jay on July 5, 2005, at 16:57:51
>
> What makes the difference is the first sentence. "when this unfair treatment comes from a man." Replace man with Jew/coloured...even woman..and it smacks of generalization. >
> JayI don't think I've ever seen you post more than you have since you boycotted the board!
I really didn't see anything new in your argument, but I'll state what I saw once again.
I would not take the one sentence out of Emmy's post because it takes the entire post to convey the message, and the reasoning for what she said about men is explained in the last sentence of what she wrote.
You mentioned replacing the word "man" with anyone of color or race in your two previous posts in order to show how offensive it is, It can easily be done without general offence unless the one sentence you have objected to is taken out of the context of the message. It's the message I'm concerned with, not one phrase.
Perhaps it could have been worded more clearly,
sorry the one sentence upset you, but the fact is, women who've been abused by men in the past are generally more sensitive to abuse "especially when this behaviour comes from a man" I have no problem with that statement>No, it is not acceptable.
No, it's not acceptable to you.
Posted by gabbii on July 8, 2005, at 4:58:50
In reply to Re: How to build a Zen..Dr. Bob...please review.. » Gabbi-x-2, posted by jay on July 5, 2005, at 16:57:51
Posted by AuntieMel on July 8, 2005, at 9:17:14
In reply to Re: How to build a Zen..Dr. Bob...please review.. » jay, posted by gabbii on July 8, 2005, at 4:54:34
Granted that it is but one sentence taken out of context.
But people get blocked for less, don't they? Isn't it often the style of the message and not the message itself?
Not fussing at you, just confused.
Posted by gabbii on July 8, 2005, at 10:27:34
In reply to Re: But Gabbi » gabbii, posted by AuntieMel on July 8, 2005, at 9:17:14
> Granted that it is but one sentence taken out of context.
>
> But people get blocked for less, don't they? Isn't it often the style of the message and not the message itself?
>
> Not fussing at you, just confused.> Granted that it is but one sentence taken out of context.
>
> But people get blocked for less, don't they? Isn't it often the style of the message and not the message itself?
>
> Not fussing at you, just confused.Oh sure they do! But Jay said he found it offensive, not simply that he was upset because he thought it contravened the civility guidlines and wasn't P.B.C'd, so the "civility" issue didn't enter into my response.
Even so, to offer a comparison sentence, "When this unfair treatment comes from another woman" (it can be even more hurtful) wouldn't be considered "uncivil" unless you had an axe to grind.
Posted by gardenergirl on July 8, 2005, at 13:14:24
In reply to Re: But Gabbi » AuntieMel, posted by gabbii on July 8, 2005, at 10:27:34
I just re-read the message, and I still think that Emmy was clearly talking about her own experience and feelings. And it seems to me that she does feel gender is an issue in how she responded. That's honest. I don't see it as putting down all men. I see it as Emmy talking about what upset her and reflecting on why. That's very brave of her.
gg
Posted by zenhussy on August 3, 2005, at 5:41:14
In reply to How to build a Zen, posted by TofuEmmy on June 12, 2005, at 10:01:47
Tofusky,
Good thing I come with building instructions otherwise I'd return me for a refund as damaged goods ;)
__zh
Posted by crushedout on August 3, 2005, at 9:52:03
In reply to Re: How to build a Zen » TofuEmmy, posted by zenhussy on August 3, 2005, at 5:41:14
sorry. i barely even know you. but you're a legend.:)
Posted by alexandra_k on August 3, 2005, at 14:15:56
In reply to Re: How to build a Zen » TofuEmmy, posted by zenhussy on August 3, 2005, at 5:41:14
Posted by gabbii on August 3, 2005, at 20:08:37
In reply to Re: How to build a Zen » TofuEmmy, posted by zenhussy on August 3, 2005, at 5:41:14
Posted by Dinah on August 6, 2005, at 21:49:53
In reply to Re: How to build a Zen » TofuEmmy, posted by zenhussy on August 3, 2005, at 5:41:14
Posted by chemist on August 8, 2005, at 23:26:16
In reply to Re: How to build a Zen » TofuEmmy, posted by zenhussy on August 3, 2005, at 5:41:14
Posted by Phillipa on August 9, 2005, at 0:17:23
In reply to welcome! all the best, chemist (nm), posted by chemist on August 8, 2005, at 23:26:16
Chemist where have you been? I miss you. It's DC this Thursday. I hope you were wrong about this Henkin. Let me know if you have learned any more about him. Thanks, Jan, Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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