![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 155 to 179 of 536. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dinah on January 31, 2005, at 6:45:41
In reply to Re: half-cozy, half-gated communities, posted by Dr. Bob on January 30, 2005, at 18:09:47
If you made what *is* private, private.
Make the exclusionary communities a separate areas, which can only be entered by those who agree to be part of an exclusionary community. The ticket to entry would be the agreement to join. A separate admin board. No public announcements of who specifically chooses to join. No ability to read boards by those who aren't agreeable to joining a gated community.
What you do within those boundaries, whether you let those who belong to one group read all boards, is of absolutely no interest to me.
Posted by Dinah on January 31, 2005, at 10:17:34
In reply to Eureka! I think I have it! » Gabbix2, posted by Dinah on January 31, 2005, at 4:06:46
> While we see this as a community, a group of people, comprised of the posters themselves. We see Babble as Gabbi and Dinah and gg and SLS and Lar and the unfortunate departed from the community but still missed like Cam and Zen.
I of course didn't mean that Cam and Zen and the others who left here are unfortunate. I mean that their leavign was unfortunate for us. I mean that those who leave and those who stay are are part of this living growing community, just like in a coral community. That the posters both present and not present make Babble what it is today.
Unfortunately my therapist dislikes my restaurant analogy. He reminded me that private parties at restaurants are not public the same way these gated communities would be. It is not typical for the other restaurant patrons to gather at the doors of the private party and listen to the conversations. It's a bit validating though that he finds even less room for understanding this than I do. :)
Posted by AuntieMel on January 31, 2005, at 11:59:25
In reply to Oops. A technical correction., posted by Dinah on January 31, 2005, at 10:17:34
I see the point you are making.
A gated community is ostentatious in its restrictiveness. It is built, not just to keep people out, but to let people see just enough of what is behind the gate to show off.
Living in a building with a doorman technically accomplishes the same thing, but the intent is safety and privacy. Those on the outside don't see what they are missing and it doesn't purposely try to invoke envy.
Posted by AuntieMel on January 31, 2005, at 12:18:34
In reply to Oops. A technical correction., posted by Dinah on January 31, 2005, at 10:17:34
I tried to send you an email to tell you to ignore my last email.....
gmail doesn't work too well from home. I need to download a more recent netscape. someday.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 31, 2005, at 12:30:13
In reply to Re: Dinah?, posted by AuntieMel on January 31, 2005, at 12:18:34
This is just another addition to my opinion. To hide these groups from the eyes of others. Seems to me to be just a sneakier way to insult all of us more and allow us to be Country Club members with a gold key in a good club. I would never join one I can email and make my own groups. I would NEVER insult and exclude another human being in this way. I also hope others don't because.....what we don't know will hurt us those of us who know this change is on the table will know..there are other HIDDEN grousps out there. I guess I find this sorry and see DR BOB losing a LOT of memebers to another board....in fact I see many over there now...with a few toes in the door of babble....while the rest of them leaves.
So for me there will be no exceptions I do not need ANYTHING that much that I would hurt another even in secret
Posted by Gabbix2 on January 31, 2005, at 13:23:06
In reply to Eureka! I think I have it! » Gabbix2, posted by Dinah on January 31, 2005, at 4:06:46
> The reason why Dr. Bob and those of us who find the idea abhorrent will never even understand each other.
>
> I was on to something in an earlier post.
>
> Dr. Bob sees this as an accomodation.I think you're exactly right Dinah.
Posted by Gabbix2 on January 31, 2005, at 14:14:21
In reply to Re: Dinah?, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 31, 2005, at 12:30:13
> This is just another addition to my opinion. To hide these groups from the eyes of others. Seems to me to be just a sneakier way to insult all of us more and allow us to be Country Club members with a gold key in a good club.
It's true, people do have a way of finding out.
However, I really think that the rooms just won't work. There just aren't enough babblers altogether, nevermind enough who would be interested in a private room. The social board is hardly crowded with posters, the student board eventually had to become unrestricted and
I've seen posts on the 2000 board that have been made just to keep it from being closed. I have too much faith in Babblers to worry about having to leave over this, if it is implemented I'll just have to wait until I get over my annoyance with Dr.Bob and I've managed to do that more than a few times. : (
Posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2005, at 17:37:18
In reply to Re: Dinah?, posted by Gabbix2 on January 31, 2005, at 14:14:21
As soon as you judge one board to be ‘better’ than another there are problems…
Instead of focusing on what you have you focus on what you are missing out on.
You feel envy because you aren’t in the ‘best’ board.
But it doesn’t have to be that way. All you have to do is lift the judgement.
Posted by Gabbix2 on January 31, 2005, at 18:14:24
In reply to I think I understand why people don't like this..., posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2005, at 17:37:18
> As soon as you judge one board to be ‘better’ than another there are problems…
> Instead of focusing on what you have you focus on what you are missing out on.
> You feel envy because you aren’t in the ‘best’ board.
>
>
> But it doesn’t have to be that way. All you have to do is lift the judgement.That's not it for me at all, not even remotely.
Few people I could connect with would want to even be involved with a private board so it's a non-issue. Why on earth would I envy people who were involved in something I find so repugnant? I think the reasons for not liking the idea were made pretty clear by Dinah, and they didn't involve envy, it's a matter of rudeness and elitism.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2005, at 18:21:05
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbix2 on January 31, 2005, at 18:14:24
Would it be rude and elite for me to join a board that you don't want to?
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 31, 2005, at 18:22:06
In reply to Re: Dinah?, posted by Gabbix2 on January 31, 2005, at 14:14:21
I will leave when I even think there are select groups. I KNOW there are some off shoots...
Way back when I was a kid...maybe age 12 we had an interracial couple move into our very white and upper middle class suberb...I spoke with them often when I went to visit friends a couple blocks away..I would wave and say hi ask them dumb kid questions...they seemed SO greatful for that. At the time I didn't see that ..I was a kid...My dad even made comments on that dirty white woman who married a .....(dad was a very nice man normally) and ALL the rest of the neighborhood did NOT speak to them..This is true...*nobody EVEN looked at them* (kind of a what you don't see deal) they would just let them know by their silence they did not belong. You know closed doors.. Not even 6 months later....I was on my way to a friends house and no curtains were in the window..they moved....paid a lot of cash to move into our area to be ignored and treated like garbage. *I* will never be a part of something so distasteful. To this day in my old neighborhood you see few to zero black people...Where I live now a small town of 8000 with OLD MONEY you see no blacks at all minus shopping...It's like we have a gated community....they FEEL they are not welcome as I am sure some in here will too....I hate that what you see won't hurt you mentality...it is insulting. I will blow outta babble when that time comes that we have to hide and not be with all ...I will survive. I guess what some posters on here do not realize about me is. I could care less if I lost Babble myself I am fighting to keep what many of you seem to care about as well as the posters who will be shut out...Yeah it's a small town clique is all. If you hide it to me, that is just worse than not ..and very hypocritical. Lets have a country club in a hills so the blacks and jewish people don't know they are excluded...ugh..sickening
> > This is just another addition to my opinion. To hide these groups from the eyes of others. Seems to me to be just a sneakier way to insult all of us more and allow us to be Country Club members with a gold key in a good club.
>
> It's true, people do have a way of finding out.
> However, I really think that the rooms just won't work. There just aren't enough babblers altogether, nevermind enough who would be interested in a private room. The social board is hardly crowded with posters, the student board eventually had to become unrestricted and
> I've seen posts on the 2000 board that have been made just to keep it from being closed. I have too much faith in Babblers to worry about having to leave over this, if it is implemented I'll just have to wait until I get over my annoyance with Dr.Bob and I've managed to do that more than a few times. : (
>
>
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 31, 2005, at 18:31:18
In reply to I think I understand why people don't like this..., posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2005, at 17:37:18
This is not to anyone in particular but sometimes people act like judgement is bad. I judge freedom and choice to be something I value. I think we judge judgment....
Main Entry: judg·ment
Variant(s): or judge.ment /'j&j-m&nt/
Function: noun
Date: 13th century
1 a : a formal utterance of an authoritative opinion b : an opinion so pronounced
2 a : a formal decision given by a court b (1) : an obligation (as a debt) created by the decree of a court (2) : a certificate evidencing such a decree
3 a : capitalized : the final judging of mankind by God b : a divine sentence or decision; specifically : a calamity held to be sent by God
4 a : the process of forming an opinion or evaluation by discerning and comparing b : an opinion or estimate so formed
5 a : the capacity for judging : DISCERNMENT b : the exercise of this capacity
6 : a proposition stating something believed or asserted
synonym see SENSE
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 31, 2005, at 18:34:56
In reply to I think I understand why people don't like this..., posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2005, at 17:37:18
Fifty years ago Rosa Parks was arrested for refusing to give up her bus seat to a white person in Montgomery, Ala. This event led to a bus boycott that was the first mass protest of racial discrimination..sometimes you have to stand up for what you belive in at ALL cost ..This is a case where I will be like Rosa Parks and stand up for all of those who want a bus seat......
Posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2005, at 18:55:27
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this..., posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2005, at 18:21:05
I don't have a problem with judgement. But when the consequence of judement leads to hurt feelings and we do not need to judge that way...
I have heard a lot about racial segregation. I think that to compare small town boards with segregation on the basis of race is on a par with comparing babble with Nazi germany. That is to say that it undermines the suffering of those affected by those situations.
Dr Bob isn't saying lets limit membership to race or colour or income or anything like that. He is saying lets limit it to a certain number of posters.
I really should just stop this.
I am not trying to change peoples minds
I am trying to understand the hurt feelings
And I am trying to find ways to show people that we really don't need to be that hurt.We can choose how to view this...
Posted by Gabbix2 on January 31, 2005, at 19:22:28
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this..., posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2005, at 18:55:27
> I am trying to understand the hurt feelings
> And I am trying to find ways to show people that .
>
> We can choose how to view this...Please don't say "we" it's a complete contradiction. I don't need someone to show me how to choose. I *have* chosen how to view this, and my view is different from yours. The way that is phrased it sounds like the only way I could be choosing is if I agree to this, and that's rather ironic. My feelings are not hurt, I'm angry, and I'm disappointed.
I frequently change my mind when an argument presented seems valid to me.
I haven't seen one yet, "The words have changed but the song remains the same"No, I don't think this is as extreme as choosing people by color. However sometimes people exaggerate to make a point.
I think having private conversation which can be viewed but not participated in by the rest of babble is insensitive, I think it promotes cliquisheness and it insinuates that there is an unruly mass to get away from.>we really don't need to be that hurt
That's right, anyone who wants a private conversation can have one.. IN PRIVATE
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 31, 2005, at 19:26:37
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this..., posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2005, at 18:55:27
I totally disagree with you it is a form of elitism and segregation....many agree with me...some don't. I agree to disagree with you ..I do not think we will agree, it may be because of where I live, my age and life experience you are much younger than I..that is not bad or saying you do not know much but it is ELITISM..I never said NEVER said Dr Bob is basing it on color etc PLEASE DO NOT TWIST MY WORDS...I used **examples** of ELITISM...THE ONE THING WE AGREE ON IS THE LAST PART OF YOUR POST WHERE YOU SAY...."I really should just stop this.
> I am not trying to change peoples minds
> I am trying to understand the hurt feelings
> And I am trying to find ways to show people that we really don't need to be that hurt.
>
> We can choose how to view this... "
Those are wise words ...no you will not change peoples minds I would NOT want to change yours its your mind and beliefs...I respect that..Dinah Gab and I have been around here our minds and hearts feel differently...HOWEVER I will say YOU CANNOT SHOW US ANY OF US that we do not need to be hurt WE HATE THIS IDEA...I AM BTW NOT YELLING AT YOU JUST STRESSING points I do not think you understand or will :/ We arent wanting or asking you to agree or change your mind, YOU WILL NOT SEE US CHANGE OURS. Just as I know killing someone is wrong I know this elitism is wrong> I don't have a problem with judgement. But when the consequence of judement leads to hurt feelings and we do not need to judge that way...
>
> I have heard a lot about racial segregation. I think that to compare small town boards with segregation on the basis of race is on a par with comparing babble with Nazi germany. That is to say that it undermines the suffering of those affected by those situations.
>
> Dr Bob isn't saying lets limit membership to race or colour or income or anything like that. He is saying lets limit it to a certain number of posters.
>
> I really should just stop this.
> I am not trying to change peoples minds
> I am trying to understand the hurt feelings
> And I am trying to find ways to show people that we really don't need to be that hurt.
>
> We can choose how to view this...
Posted by Gabbix2 on January 31, 2005, at 19:33:03
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this..., posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2005, at 18:55:27
> And I am trying to find ways to show people that we really don't need to be that hurt.
>
Alexandra I really don't think that's up to you.
Do you really? It just doesn't sound like you to me.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 31, 2005, at 19:34:13
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbix2 on January 31, 2005, at 19:22:28
Thank you Gab for this post it's well said and conveys how I feel exactly I have tried to express as best as I can in a civil that WE feel how WE feel and we arn't inclusive or some posters..I have tried hyperbole...I never asked for someone to agree. I will NOT insult someone else opinion or intellegence by trying to change it ..well minus Dr Bob's....Somehow we just feel the same and babble will be bye bye for a lot of us...I am sickened to think of the walls with no windows being viewed as civil and sensitive myself
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU I AM NOT A PART OF THAT WE either
> > I am trying to understand the hurt feelings
> > And I am trying to find ways to show people that .
> >
> > We can choose how to view this...
>
> Please don't say "we" it's a complete contradiction. I don't need someone to show me how to choose. I *have* chosen how to view this, and my view is different from yours. The way that is phrased it sounds like the only way I could be choosing is if I agree to this, and that's rather ironic. My feelings are not hurt, I'm angry, and I'm disappointed.
>
> I frequently change my mind when an argument presented seems valid to me.
> I haven't seen one yet, "The words have changed but the song remains the same"
>
> No, I don't think this is as extreme as choosing people by color. However sometimes people exaggerate to make a point.
> I think having private conversation which can be viewed but not participated in by the rest of babble is insensitive, I think it promotes cliquisheness and it insinuates that there is an unruly mass to get away from.
>
> >we really don't need to be that hurt
>
> That's right, anyone who wants a private conversation can have one.. IN PRIVATE
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 31, 2005, at 19:44:27
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbix2 on January 31, 2005, at 19:33:03
A blonde moment maybe but Gab you think someone else is on her puter? Or??? I know for myself I keep saying it's up to Dr Bob and nobody else .....but ??
> > And I am trying to find ways to show people that we really don't need to be that hurt.
> >
> Alexandra I really don't think that's up to you.
> Do you really? It just doesn't sound like you to me.
Posted by Gabbix2 on January 31, 2005, at 19:48:12
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » Gabbix2, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 31, 2005, at 19:34:13
> Thank you Gab for this post
Posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2005, at 20:17:27
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbix2 on January 31, 2005, at 19:22:28
> > We can choose how to view this...
> I don't need someone to show me how to choose.
I am not trying to tell you or show you *how* to choose, I am trying to tell you or show you that it is in fact a matter of choice.
You have the choice, we all do.
I don't care *what* people choose.
I care how people feel as a consequence of their choice.
I am trying to show you that there are options.>My feelings are not hurt, I'm angry, and I'm disappointed.
Hmm. I would consider anger and disappointment to be painful feelings. Feelings that are unpleasant anyways.
I don't care whether people want small boards or not. I don't care whether there are small boards or not.
I do care about how people feel about whether small boards happen or not.
But you choose to feel a certain way as a result of the way you choose to view small boards.
Your issue.
But I wish people weren't so upset / hurt / disappointed / whatever about this.
I wish people wouldn't question Dr Bob's motives about this. Because I can see things both ways. I can see how one could be well intentioned and want small boards. I can see how one could be well intentioned and not want small boards.I just wish people weren't so upset about this...
Posted by Fallen4MyT on January 31, 2005, at 20:42:47
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this..., posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2005, at 20:17:27
Those are nice wishes but are not part of my reality... I do not share in the Bob is right mentality and Bob knows best. Still I wish you could somehow find peace in our upsetness we are OK with it..I own my feelings I ate, slept good and loled a lot today...I am not falling on a sword over this but that is because I feel my stand on this is based on a higher principle than myself and what I want or wish but what I feel is right..Dr Bob WILL do whatever he wants and people will like it and people won't and you will see some go and some stay thats just life. The older I get the more I understand authority is not always right...and malice doesnt need to exist...if something is wrong it just is...That said I wish you well as always but I also believe you will never find the not botheredness you seek.
> > > We can choose how to view this...
>
> > I don't need someone to show me how to choose.
>
> I am not trying to tell you or show you *how* to choose, I am trying to tell you or show you that it is in fact a matter of choice.
>
> You have the choice, we all do.
> I don't care *what* people choose.
> I care how people feel as a consequence of their choice.
> I am trying to show you that there are options.
>
> >My feelings are not hurt, I'm angry, and I'm disappointed.
>
> Hmm. I would consider anger and disappointment to be painful feelings. Feelings that are unpleasant anyways.
>
> I don't care whether people want small boards or not. I don't care whether there are small boards or not.
>
> I do care about how people feel about whether small boards happen or not.
>
> But you choose to feel a certain way as a result of the way you choose to view small boards.
>
> Your issue.
> But I wish people weren't so upset / hurt / disappointed / whatever about this.
> I wish people wouldn't question Dr Bob's motives about this. Because I can see things both ways. I can see how one could be well intentioned and want small boards. I can see how one could be well intentioned and not want small boards.
>
> I just wish people weren't so upset about this...
>
>
Posted by Gabbix2 on January 31, 2005, at 20:51:26
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this..., posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2005, at 20:17:27
> > > We can choose how to view this...
>
> > I don't need someone to show me how to choose.
>
> I am not trying to tell you or show you *how* to choose, I am trying to tell you or show you that it is in fact a matter of choice.
>
Of course it's a matter of choice, what else would it be?
> You have the choice, we all do.
> I don't care *what* people choose.
> I care how people feel as a consequence of their choice.
> I am trying to show you that there are options.
>
Again, when you phrase it like that "I'm trying to show you" it sounds to me as if you feel you are somehow gifted with something that I am unable to see, I'm afraid in this instance that's just not the case. I hear what you are saying, I don't agree with it.
> >My feelings are not hurt, I'm angry, and I'm disappointed.
>
> Hmm. I would consider anger and disappointment to be painful feelings. Feelings that are unpleasant anyways. Yes but to me quite different than hurt.>
> I don't care whether people want small boards or not. I don't care whether there are small boards or not.
>
> I do care about how people feel about whether small boards happen or not.
>
> But you choose to feel a certain way as a result of the way you choose to view small boards.There are a few things in life I get angry about.
Cliquisheness/elitism or any of it's variances one of them.
Anger can be constructive and, as long as I still see people as individuals and do not direct my anger where it's not warranted
I have no problem with it, so perhaps you shouldn't be upset about my feelings.> But I wish people weren't so upset / hurt / disappointed / whatever about this.
> I wish people wouldn't question Dr Bob's motives about this.Dinah explained quite well some reasons he might have for this that were not innately negative, but a different way of viewing Babble. I agreed with her.
Because I can see things both ways. I can see how one could be well intentioned and want small boards. I can see how one could be well intentioned and not want small boards.
And??
> I just wish people weren't so upset about this...Well, I'm not going to stop being upset about things I think are potentially hurtful, and I'm not going to choose to not see it as potentially hurtful in order to ease into a tepid congeniality.
Posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2005, at 21:15:20
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » alexandra_k, posted by Fallen4MyT on January 31, 2005, at 20:42:47
> I do not share in the Bob is right mentality and Bob knows best.
Oh, I never meant to imply that! I just meant that I believe that Bob is well intentioned.
As are we all.
That makes it harder to be mad at him.
Not impossible, but harder.>I wish you could somehow find peace in our upsetness we are OK with it..
Oh, I'll be ok. I just care about how you guys feel and don't like to see people upset. But I won't lose sleep over it, okay?
No hard feelings.
?
Posted by alexandra_k on January 31, 2005, at 21:36:41
In reply to Re: I think I understand why people don't like this... » alexandra_k, posted by Gabbix2 on January 31, 2005, at 20:51:26
> Of course it's a matter of choice, what else would it be?
Well it could be *just obvious* that one way of viewing it is the *right* way.
> Again, when you phrase it like that "I'm trying to show you" it sounds to me as if you feel you are somehow gifted with something that I am unable to see, I'm afraid in this instance that's just not the case. I hear what you are saying, I don't agree with it.
You don't agree that there are options?
You don't agree that there are different ways of seeing small boards?
That was what I was saying.I genuinely apologise that that did sound condescending. I see that now that you point it out.
> There are a few things in life I get angry about. Cliquisheness/elitism or any of it's variances one of them.But it is a choice to see small boards as *cliquish* and *elite*.
I would feel so very mad at Dr Bob if I thought that the truth of the situation was that small boards are *cliquish* and *elite* and yet he wanted them anyway. His intentions must be very evil indeed...
If I thought the truth of the situation was that small boards were *cliquish* and *elite* then perhaps I would be mad at him for his stupidity in refusing to recognise that fact.
But he has an alternative way of seeing small boards. He does not see them as *cliquish* and *elite*.
There are alternative ways to view them.
And that is a different issue from whether they should be implemented or not.
I don't mind that you prefer not to have them.
I think not wanting something to happen that has the potential to produce hurt feelings in others is a good and noble reason (not that you need my approval of course).Some people may feel envious that they cannot be part of one small board in particular.
Sounds like that is what people are trying to prevent.
But are those feelings of envy something that follows from small boards or something that follows from *judging* some small boards to be better than another?
We choose to feel hurt...
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