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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 40 to 64 of 64. Go back in thread:
Posted by AuntieMel on December 1, 2004, at 8:53:52
In reply to Re: An art form?, posted by verne on December 1, 2004, at 1:17:35
Please read and reread Noa's response.
Lou isn't the only one with strong personal feelings about this topic. Count me in, too.
Even Toph has rethought what he said. You are right that he was trying to illustrate a point. It's just that there are other ways.
It's one thing to be "right." It is another to insist on being "right" even if you know you are offending someone. I think Toph - to his credit - believes this too.
Posted by Toph on December 1, 2004, at 11:23:44
In reply to Re: An art form? » verne, posted by AuntieMel on December 1, 2004, at 8:53:52
This tread is regrettable for a number of reasons. I regret that I got so frustrated with Bob for not responding promptly to my request that he reconsider his sanction of Susan. This prompted me to use an extreme example of injustice to illustrate my point. Unfortunately, I offended people by comparing a sensitve topic with something so trivial as being unfairly blocked from PB. I hope people believed my apology was sincere.
I regret that I also discounted Lou's offense, dismissing it as "just Lou, crying wolf again." Noa's post set me straight.
While I appreciate verne's support, I regret that others who do not know him as a serious, thoughtful person may misread the points he has attempted to make.
What I do not regret is that the thread was allowed to proceed and was not halted as someone suggested. Without Bob's intervention, it allowed important sensitive issues to be discussed and worked out.
-Toph
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 1, 2004, at 11:44:26
In reply to Regrets, posted by Toph on December 1, 2004, at 11:23:44
Toph,
You wrote,[...I regret tnat I also discounted Lou's offense, dismissing it as "Just Lou crying wolf again"...].
Could you explain what you mean by {Lou''s offense}? and could you also give an example of what you are referring to as {Lou [crying wolf]?}.If you could, then I could have theopportunity to respond accordingly.
Lou
Posted by Toph on December 1, 2004, at 12:35:11
In reply to Lou's response to Toph- » Toph, posted by Lou Pilder on December 1, 2004, at 11:44:26
> Toph,
> You wrote,[...I regret tnat I also discounted Lou's offense, dismissing it as "Just Lou crying wolf again"...].
> Could you explain what you mean by {Lou''s offense}? and could you also give an example of what you are referring to as {Lou [crying wolf]?}.If you could, then I could have theopportunity to respond accordingly.
> LouI'm sorry Lou, I wasn't very clear there, I meant when you objected to my analogy instead of 'Lou's offense'.
Posted by Noa on December 1, 2004, at 15:57:56
In reply to Re: Toph-fer-extrm's reply to, posted by Toph on November 30, 2004, at 8:49:51
Thank you, Toph. I knew you'd understand.
Posted by Noa on December 1, 2004, at 16:02:03
In reply to Re: Toph-fer-extrm's reply to » Noa, posted by NikkiT2 on November 30, 2004, at 12:47:48
Yes--of course that makes sense. And, I agree--I am not sure whether locking threads is a good idea either.
In a case like this, I think clarifying with each other can work, and I think it did.
Posted by Noa on December 1, 2004, at 16:05:48
In reply to Lou's reply to pegasus- » pegasus, posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2004, at 15:52:44
>...But could there be some introspection by the posters in the thread, after the halt is posted, that could, perhaps, alter the new posts in the new thread?
Perhaps, but I think introspection can also happen from other strategies, such as in the exchange between me and Toph.
Posted by verne on December 1, 2004, at 17:21:14
In reply to Regrets, posted by Toph on December 1, 2004, at 11:23:44
I wish I hadn't jumped in mid-thread. I was blind drunk and hadn't really read most of the preceding posts.
Toph, thanks for the kind words and understanding. I'm often misunderstood. I can "agree" with someone and still manage to start a fight - especially if I've been drinking. I start shooting from the hip (I've never owned a gun, so believe me when I say that's strictly a metaphor).
I'm sorry if I made things worse for you or offended anybody. I've been wanting to take a break from babble and fell on my sword. Imagine how surprised I was when I still had a babble pulse the next morning.
I think I need a break and would welcome a block. But I shouldn't take others with me or start a riot on my way out.
verne
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 1, 2004, at 19:37:22
In reply to Add my Regrets » Toph, posted by verne on December 1, 2004, at 17:21:14
> I wish I hadn't jumped in mid-thread. I was blind drunk and hadn't really read most of the preceding posts.
>
> Toph, thanks for the kind words and understanding. I'm often misunderstood.It would take a whole lot more than this to make me think you are insensitive. I find your thoughts interesting and often pointedly insightful. No one is here because they are perfect!
Posted by Noa on December 1, 2004, at 20:06:09
In reply to The halting procedure- » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on November 30, 2004, at 7:52:02
>I will ask noa's permission to do so first.
I appreciate both the compliment about my post as well as the courtesy you mention of asking permission in order to circulate or publish my post. Truly, I am flattered and I'm glad that I was able to express something in a way that you appreciated.
But I really prefer that my post not be circulated anywhere. It is just something that is part of this conversation here, nothing more really.
Thanks, Lou.
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 1, 2004, at 20:42:02
In reply to Add my Regrets » Toph, posted by verne on December 1, 2004, at 17:21:14
> I wish I hadn't jumped in mid-thread. I was blind drunk and hadn't really read most of the preceding posts.
**okay, verne what were you drinking? Beer? What does blind drunk mean?
>
> I'm sorry if I made things worse for you or offended anybody. I've been wanting to take a break from babble and fell on my sword. Imagine how surprised I was when I still had a babble pulse the next morning.**verne you are so funny. I love this last statement.
>
> I think I need a break and would welcome a block. But I shouldn't take others with me or start a riot on my way out.** you want to start a riot?
My goodness you make me lighten up when I am sad or uptight.
If you need to take a break, I can accept that, I will miss you.
Jai
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 1, 2004, at 21:01:11
In reply to Re: The halting procedure- » Lou Pilder, posted by Noa on December 1, 2004, at 20:06:09
Noa,
I have not sent the post out yet, so I will not do so.
Best regards,
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 1, 2004, at 21:05:27
In reply to Re: Lou's reply to pegasus- » Lou Pilder, posted by Noa on December 1, 2004, at 16:05:48
Noa,
But could not both ways,{halt and exchange} be available? What could have happened if you did not post your post?
Lou
Posted by verne on December 2, 2004, at 0:02:27
In reply to Re: Add my Regrets » verne, posted by Gabbix2 on December 1, 2004, at 19:37:22
no, I really just live and camp in imperfection.
I've been so adrift and down lately, your words were a huge encouragement.
one value of this site is: that when we lose perspective others help us get our bearings.
I have a tendency to only read posts by certain people. Anyway, I usually stop and read your posts. You seem real (is "seem real" an oxymoron?), and authentic.
thanks for the encouragement
verne
Posted by alexandra_k on December 2, 2004, at 0:12:12
In reply to Lou's reply to Noa-hltexcng » Noa, posted by Lou Pilder on December 1, 2004, at 21:05:27
I would have to say that for preference over yet another rule if someone finds something to be offensive, they just say so. People who read the thread will read the post and can then decide for themselves whether they wish to continue the thread, in what manner they wish to do so etc etc until the point at which Dr. B makes a determination.
I think that the intention of the writer is important and that their intentions should be taken into account in determining whether something is acceptable or civil or not.
That is why it can be useful to say 'I thought you were saying something like the following... and here is why I took offense from what I understood you to be saying'. That allows the poster to say - 'oh, yes, on that interpretation of what I was saying I do see how you might be offended by that and I am sorry'. And also the chance to say 'but that wasn't what I intended by what I said, rather I had such and such in mind'.
And then, after considering things from each others point of view, people could just kind of move on.
At least I fail to understand why things don't work that way at times. Perhaps it continues because one of the parties is unwilling or unable to see things from the others point of view.
I would say that the statement that caused offence in this case was intended to be a hyperbolic claim (or an overexaggeration for effect) about someones feelings of a situation on the board.
It wasn't meant to trivialise, rather it was meant to amplify or exaggerate for effect. I don't understand what is so hard to grasp about this.
haven't quite learned to keep my mouth shut yet, but lets see (and let me take note) whether any trouble follows...
I do hope not.
Posted by Toph on December 2, 2004, at 8:41:04
In reply to Another rule... and intentions.., posted by alexandra_k on December 2, 2004, at 0:12:12
That we're still talking about this is a little embarassing for me. You are right, alexandra,if I may say so myself, I intended on making noise to draw attention to how pissed I was at Bob and ended up inadvertently offending people sensitive to the Holocaust. While I now recognize the danger in using inflamatory rhetoric, I like that Babble is filled with interesting people who are impassioned about things, who engage in serious discourse about their health, their world and how best to live in it. Let's not over-regulate this forum so that some voices may be silenced.
-Toph
Posted by henrietta on December 2, 2004, at 9:20:04
In reply to Add my Regrets » Toph, posted by verne on December 1, 2004, at 17:21:14
Ah. You write too well when you're blind drunk. If I'd had a clue (slurred letters?) I think I would have interpreted your post quite differently, I would not have been offended (or at least I would have examined my response a bit more carefully), and I would not have posted yet another regrettable post. For the record: with the exception of my note to Noa the other night, I've regretted every letter I've ever tapped into this frame.
hen
Posted by henrietta on December 2, 2004, at 9:36:33
In reply to Re: Add my Regrets » verne, posted by henrietta on December 2, 2004, at 9:20:04
I am in no way suggesting that you are responsible for my having made "yet another regrettable post". I was attempting to compliment your uncommon lucidity.
Somebody please shoot my computer and get me out of this place for good. (Would that do it?)
hen
Posted by verne on December 2, 2004, at 10:43:45
In reply to Re: Add my Regrets:clarification verne, posted by henrietta on December 2, 2004, at 9:36:33
Thanks for your kind words. I understood.
I tend to over-dramatize and exaggerate so I'm easily misunderstood. (sometimes, by morning's light, I can't even figure it out). Anyway, thanks for being so understanding.
verne
Posted by AuntieMel on December 2, 2004, at 12:40:53
In reply to Re: Toph-fer-extrm's reply to » NikkiT2, posted by Noa on December 1, 2004, at 16:02:03
My suggestion to lock this one was a lame attempt at humor - trying to get folks to not escalate this into an argument.
Apparently it was very lame.
Posted by AuntieMel on December 2, 2004, at 12:45:38
In reply to Add my Regrets » Toph, posted by verne on December 1, 2004, at 17:21:14
I think your message struck a nerve in me because I could see myself.
Before I quit drinking myself I could make very lucid, good arguments. The only problem with them was that they were a bit (ok, more than a bit) more emphatic than they needed to be.
It's hard to explain - on the surface your post was reasonably put. It was my projection of myself into it that was the problem. Sorry.
Imagine my surprise when you said you were "blind drunk" when you wrote it!
Posted by verne on December 2, 2004, at 20:23:42
In reply to Re: Add my Regrets » verne, posted by AuntieMel on December 2, 2004, at 12:45:38
I've never been sailing but my thinking resembles the way they tack from position to position. I'm always off course and have to adjust, or rather, jerk wildly in one direction or another.
On the wrong tack with one metaphor, I try to counter with more exaggeration in the other direction and end up even further off course. Calm, clear thought eludes me.
verne
Posted by Noa on December 3, 2004, at 5:32:43
In reply to Re: locking threads » Noa, posted by AuntieMel on December 2, 2004, at 12:40:53
Auntie, I think someone else had suggested it, too, although maybe they used a different word from "Lock". I don't think my comment was in reference to your post--I think I was either responding to Lou's suggestion to "halt" the thread or I was responding to the general concept, whether it be called "halting" or "locking" that had gotten picked up in the thread for discussion by several posters.
But I did read your other posts and appreciated them--about your own feelings on the subject at hand, as well as your suggestion that maybe we all (voluntarily) cool it before we lose it--this is often very wise advice in life.
Thanks.
Posted by Noa on December 3, 2004, at 5:47:47
In reply to Re: locking threads » AuntieMel, posted by Noa on December 3, 2004, at 5:32:43
Hey everyone. I think in the end, this discussion was fruitful and I appreciate everyone's willingness to talk to each other respectfully to try to understand each other. All in all, I really think this is such a remarkable group of people--intelligent and insightful and civil--YES, despite all the talk of PBC's, the rocky times we experience sometimes, etc.--civil.
(I know that during the rockier times this feeling isn't as obvious to me, but right now it is): It's great to be part of this group.
At this point, I am ready to move on from this thread. :)
Posted by Gabbix2 on December 11, 2004, at 22:55:31
In reply to Caution: I break for imperfection. » Gabbix2, posted by verne on December 2, 2004, at 0:02:27
Oh no I'm a week Late!
I just saw this today.
no, I really just live and camp in imperfection.
>
> I've been so adrift and down lately, your words were a huge encouragement.They were just the truth Verne.
>
> one value of this site is: that when we lose perspective others help us get our bearings.
>
> I have a tendency to only read posts by certain people. Anyway, I usually stop and read your posts. You seem real (is "seem real" an oxymoron?), and authentic.Why thank you, and now the good thing is you know that I meant what I said too, cause I'm not always that sweet, I know...
>
> thanks for the encouragement
>
You are very welcome.
This is the end of the thread.
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