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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 78 to 102 of 138. Go back in thread:
Posted by Toph on November 1, 2004, at 10:00:04
In reply to Re: sort of off-topic » Toph, posted by Larry Hoover on November 1, 2004, at 8:29:14
Some say we only use 10% of our brain, obviously they have never checked yours out, Larry. I don't know about others here, but if I see a Larry Hoover post, I'm going to check it out right away.
-Toph
Posted by SLS on November 1, 2004, at 10:39:03
In reply to Re: off-topic » Larry Hoover, posted by Toph on November 1, 2004, at 10:00:04
> Some say we only use 10% of our brain, obviously they have never checked yours out, Larry. I don't know about others here, but if I see a Larry Hoover post, I'm going to check it out right away.
> -TophIt's all those extra glial cells.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by SLS on November 1, 2004, at 10:40:03
In reply to Re: off-topic, posted by SLS on November 1, 2004, at 10:39:03
:-)
Posted by AuntieMel on November 1, 2004, at 11:04:50
In reply to Re: Another 3-post rule, posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2004, at 2:22:51
Can we make a rule that there will be no more than three 3-post-rules??
Posted by TofuEmmy on November 1, 2004, at 11:35:48
In reply to Re: I have another 3 post rule » Dr. Bob, posted by AuntieMel on November 1, 2004, at 11:04:50
Sorry! There will be allowed 3 such rules. ;-)
Posted by gardenergirl on November 1, 2004, at 13:10:45
In reply to Re: I have another 3 post rule » AuntieMel, posted by TofuEmmy on November 1, 2004, at 11:35:48
Here is what I am struggling with. This reminds me so much of a class I taught that literally had more rules than subjects to cover. The prof. used to create a rule every time there was a new problem behavior on the part of the students.
Hellloooo? Why not address the problem or concern with the individual? Not every new behavior that happens is going to generalize to the group. IMO, rules should be made when a problem behavior is seen in many posters, such as being uncivil. Otherwise, I believe an administrator would serve the community much more effectively by addressing individual behavior with the individual(s).
For example, I often interject silly comments into serious discussions, particularly on Admin. If this is a behavior that Dr. Bob and others dislike as being disruptive or perhaps disrespectful, I would appreciate Dr. Bob emailing me and telling me so rather than making a new rule.
No new rule saying only 3 funny posts per month, and the humor will be judged by Dr. Bob! (Shoot, I should never try to make up protest slogans...much too verbose.)
Anyone else thinking this?
gg
Posted by AuntieMel on November 1, 2004, at 13:45:33
In reply to Why do we need a rule for every little thing?, posted by gardenergirl on November 1, 2004, at 13:10:45
I like you injecting a bit of humor into serious discussions. It puts a bit of perspective on it.
I was trying to do the same thing. Did I miss?
Posted by All Done on November 1, 2004, at 13:47:33
In reply to Why do we need a rule for every little thing?, posted by gardenergirl on November 1, 2004, at 13:10:45
> Anyone else thinking this?
>
> ggUmm, yes.
And it seems to have the potential to hurt the poster or few posters that have the behavior for which the rule was created.
That doesn't feel very supportive to me. In fact, I would feel it's just the opposite. I would be hurt and embarrassed if I realized my behavior resulted in a new rule for the entire website.
Maybe the goal is to make the majority feel safe to post? Is that the same as being supportive?
Laurie
Posted by gardenergirl on November 1, 2004, at 14:26:27
In reply to Re: Why do we need a rule for every little thing? » gardenergirl, posted by All Done on November 1, 2004, at 13:47:33
Posted by gardenergirl on November 1, 2004, at 14:27:10
In reply to Re: Why do we need a rule for every little thing? » gardenergirl, posted by AuntieMel on November 1, 2004, at 13:45:33
Just using myself as an example cause I knew it wouldn't "hurt".
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on November 1, 2004, at 15:39:29
In reply to Why do we need a rule for every little thing?, posted by gardenergirl on November 1, 2004, at 13:10:45
I'm very interested in your thoughts on this.
Thanks, GGhttp://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041027/msgs/410094.html
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2004, at 17:32:31
In reply to Why do we need a rule for every little thing?, posted by gardenergirl on November 1, 2004, at 13:10:45
> Why not address the problem or concern with the individual? Not every new behavior that happens is going to generalize to the group. IMO, rules should be made when a problem behavior is seen in many posters, such as being uncivil.
If something happens once, it can happen again.
I think the main advantage of a rule is that it makes things more predictable. Posting the speed limit makes it easier for drivers and the police both. And for any deputies.
The civility rule is actually a good example. IMO, it's worked better since what's uncivil has been spelled out.
Bob
Posted by gardenergirl on November 1, 2004, at 18:08:29
In reply to Re: Why we need rules, posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2004, at 17:32:31
Dr. Bob,
Thanks for your reply. I have some additional thoughts.> > Why not address the problem or concern with the individual? Not every new behavior that happens is going to generalize to the group. IMO, rules should be made when a problem behavior is seen in many posters, such as being uncivil.
>
> If something happens once, it can happen again.Yes, but...what is the liklihood? Again, I believe you are going to eventually end up with as many rules as there are posters with that kind of approach. Because we are all capable of some kind of new behavior that might require a rule.
> I think the main advantage of a rule is that it makes things more predictable. Posting the speed limit makes it easier for drivers and the police both. And for any deputies.
Yes, this is true. But how about a rule for how you must slow down when going up hill behind a semi? How quickly should you decelerate? I'm confused, please give me a rule.
>
> The civility rule is actually a good example. IMO, it's worked better since what's uncivil has been spelled out.I agree that the civility rule is good. But it addresses broad posters' behavior. I feel weighed down by manya specific rules for specific behaviors that are not likely to occur among the general Babble population.
I also believe that the more rules you have, specifically those that have quantifiable criteria, the more likely YOU are, Dr. Bob, to make errors in administration. Whatever happened to the KISS principle?
gg
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 2, 2004, at 9:26:43
In reply to Re: Why we need rules » Dr. Bob, posted by gardenergirl on November 1, 2004, at 18:08:29
gg,
You wrote,[...but how about a rule for how you must slow down when going up a hill behind a semi?...].
I appreciate your perspective in relation to the above.
Lou
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 2, 2004, at 10:32:24
In reply to Re: Why we need rules » Dr. Bob, posted by gardenergirl on November 1, 2004, at 18:08:29
> > If something happens once, it can happen again.
>
> Yes, but...what is the liklihood?I don't know, but why not do what we can to minimize it?
> > I think the main advantage of a rule is that it makes things more predictable. Posting the speed limit makes it easier for drivers and the police both. And for any deputies.
>
> Yes, this is true. But how about a rule for how you must slow down when going up hill behind a semi? How quickly should you decelerate? I'm confused, please give me a rule.Sorry, what's the issue with going uphill behind a semi?
> I feel weighed down by manya specific rules for specific behaviors that are not likely to occur
If they're not likely to affect you, why should you feel weighed down?
> I also believe that the more rules you have, specifically those that have quantifiable criteria, the more likely YOU are, Dr. Bob, to make errors in administration. Whatever happened to the KISS principle?
That could be seen as another advantage of a rule, errors would be easier to identify and then to correct. Simple isn't necessarily best, the most simple would be no rules...
Bob
Posted by SLS on November 2, 2004, at 13:21:54
In reply to Re: Why we need rules » Dr. Bob, posted by gardenergirl on November 1, 2004, at 18:08:29
> Yes, this is true. But how about a rule for how you must slow down when going up hill behind a semi?
I think the general rule is to decelerate at a rate sufficient to avoid a call to your insurance company.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by gardenergirl on November 2, 2004, at 14:50:11
In reply to Re: Why we need rules, posted by Dr. Bob on November 2, 2004, at 10:32:24
> > > If something happens once, it can happen again.
> >
> > Yes, but...what is the liklihood?
>
> I don't know, but why not do what we can to minimize it?I am thinking of the idea of diminshing returns here. Is the effort really necessary to have a significant effect on the liklihood of more and more posters behaving in a similar manner?
>
> > > I think the main advantage of a rule is that it makes things more predictable. Posting the speed limit makes it easier for drivers and the police both. And for any deputies.
> >
> > Yes, this is true. But how about a rule for how you must slow down when going up hill behind a semi? How quickly should you decelerate? I'm confused, please give me a rule.
>
> Sorry, what's the issue with going uphill behind a semi?It's a metafer. A metafer! Do I have to challenge you to a duel now? Or just throw spitballs at you? ;-) (And if you are still confused, see clip of Zell Miller on Hardball immediately post-his speech at the RNC)
>
> > I feel weighed down by many specific rules for specific behaviors that are not likely to occur
>
> If they're not likely to affect you, why should you feel weighed down?Because the atmosphere feels oppressive to me. Kind of like being in a heavy, muggy, dark environment, when it could be light and breezy and relaxed, and yet still civil. How's that for a non-helpful answer? Sorry, best I can do with my feelings about this.
>
> > I also believe that the more rules you have, specifically those that have quantifiable criteria, the more likely YOU are, Dr. Bob, to make errors in administration. Whatever happened to the KISS principle?
>
> That could be seen as another advantage of a rule, errors would be easier to identify and then to correct. Simple isn't necessarily best, the most simple would be no rules...KISS isn't saying make it the simplest possible. There needs to be general rules. But common sense and judgement of the moderator can serve the same purpose as creating a new rule for every last behavior, imo. Keeping it simple means not getting so detailed that you lose the general principles.
gg
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 2, 2004, at 17:04:15
In reply to Re: Why we need rules » Dr. Bob, posted by gardenergirl on November 2, 2004, at 14:50:11
> > > > If something happens once, it can happen again.
>
> I am thinking of the idea of diminshing returns here. Is the effort really necessary to have a significant effect on the liklihood of more and more posters behaving in a similar manner?If something happens once, then effort is necessary then, anyway...
> > Sorry, what's the issue with going uphill behind a semi?
>
> It's a metafer. A metafer! Do I have to challenge you to a duel now? Or just throw spitballs at you? ;-) (And if you are still confused, see clip of Zell Miller on Hardball immediately post-his speech at the RNC)I'd prefer spitballs. Is it a long clip? Is it online?
Bob
Posted by gardenergirl on November 3, 2004, at 20:36:36
In reply to Re: Why we need rules, posted by Dr. Bob on November 2, 2004, at 17:04:15
Dang it. Last night I looked it up and posted the links, but I see they are not here. Must have messed something up in my late night distress and sleep deprivation.
Here is a link to the transcript. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5892840
The video is 3MB and about 8 minutes long. It does help to see it to get the whole effect. Of course the best effect is also seeing former Sen. Miller's speech at the RNC. (SCARY!)
Both of these can be found at this site http://www.newsfly.org/media.htm if you scroll down.Happy viewing. My hubby also sent me some altered pics of Sen. Miller. My favorite was the one portraying him as the Dark Lord from Star Wars. :-0
Regards,
gg
Posted by Crazy_Charlie on November 4, 2004, at 4:36:03
In reply to clarification of 'arbitrary' » Dr. Bob, posted by alexandra_k on October 27, 2004, at 20:40:57
"Why must we resort to rules rules and more rules?
That makes me very sad indeed.
I just trust my common sense best I can, and trust yours enough so that you realise I am doing that and so I trust I will not be blocked for breaking some arbitrary and obscure rule that you have to enforce regardless of context because it is there in the authorised version of the posting rules."I am not going to join this discussion as such... but here you are indeed hitting me in my chest with words that could have been my own. Since this will be a fairly long post about nothing, I am not expecting anyone to read it or answering it, but i will still write.
Rules. I grew up in a country that is said to be the one country in Europe that is most similar to America in a social and cultural context, Norway. In the depth of my heart: I don't know what that means. I have never been in the U.S., and I haven't met that many Americans. I have a friend in New York that I love very much, she must be the most heartwarm person on this planet. But I don't have a clue of how representative she is for Americans in general. I also believe in uniqety and individuality, we are all valuable and wonderful in our own way.
I grew up in Norway. Norway is a country that has many many rules. Rules that can make me puzzled for so many days, I'm just wondering... why do we have a rule that seems to make everything worse? Think about this dilemma for example: many people havetheir life ruined by a problem of falling asleep. lets say that half of these people could be cured by using Melatonine that they could for example get on prescription from the doctor. Now, I suppose that since many of you are Americans you know what Melatonine is so I am not going to tak ethe taime to explain it, you can ask if you have read this far and wonder.
One problem remains though for people with this type of sleeping disorder in Norway. You see, it is illegal to sell or import that to Norway. The reason is that it's a new discovery, we don't know enough about long term effects soandsoandso. reasonable. Except that those 50% of all with a sleeping disorder that gets their life ruined that could have been helped with Melatonin... they have to get to the doctor and get something else instead. For example benzodiazepines.
Now, please understand that growing up in Norway has made me aware of the fact that I KNOW that there are many people who find this perfectly logical and reasonable. I am really really sorry if you find me offensive now, and I hope you can forgive me, because I really don't see th elogic in this.
But this is just an example of how rules works in Norway. We have rules for absolutely everything. And if a new problem pops up, then we make it illegal. That will sure solve the problem. If there isn't a "law made rule", it is a social rule. And everyone is making great trouble making sure you also follow the social rules. Sigh.
Believe me. I am not an anarchist, I do not prefer chaos. But I am not obsessed with order either. I find a world that is filled with silly rules killing on creativity and intelligence. I think that people should be allowed to think for themselves an dtake responsibilities of good behaviour. A system that is propped with rules will not allow that. It makes us robots in Utopia.I moved to the netherlands. It's not so far from Norway, but if you view it culturally, it is very different. The Netherlands is absolutely not a perfect country, it has quite a few obvious flaws for that. But hey. It doesn't exist a such thing as a perfect country, and why would we want to have that? But it surprises me on some areas, in such a positive way that I sometimes wonder if I weren't really supposed to be Dutch from the beginning of... I just ended up in the wrong country.
The Netherlands is the most tolerant country I have ever heard of. I experience time after time that here things work perfectly fine without the ten rules we have in Norway concerning the same case 8without specific examples right now- I have to get done writing soon). And even though this is a country with 16 million inhabitants. In Norway we have 4,5 inhabitants. What difference does that make? Well, the 16m people in the Netherlands is put on an area that is something like 10% of the size of Norway. People here are stacked on top of each other compared to Norway. Norwegians would have been confused and gone crazy in such a situation without a whole bunch of rules to control the situation. here no one seems to notice it. Even mor einteresting is the fact that it's also several different cultures mixed together. It seems like the whole world is represented in the Netherlands. You learn pretty quick when things like Chinese New Year is for example, since that is loudly celebrated amongst the Chinese every year. The Africans are having markets where they sell typical african stuff, and so have the turks. You can buy whatever food you can think of, whatever clothes. They even have aboriginal museums.
Norwegians get insecure if someone from a different culture start suggesting something that isn't "typical" Norwegian. For example that muslim girls bust be allowed to wear hijab at work. Here no one would have to raise their voice about that, because no one would think of making it illegal in the Netherlands. In Norway, they are discussing this right now, up and down, inside out.
Norwegians think Norway is the superb place to live, the best place in the world. We think we have the best political system, that no one is poor in Norway, no one suffers. If someone get depressed, you might hear the comment "what is he nagging about? Doesnt he know that he lives in th ebest country in the world?". With all these rules, it has to be perfect, right?
When I was a pregnant student, I could hardly afford to buy food, because as a student I didn't have the right to any kind of supprt. I was too sick to work, so I could barely continue my studies. But hey, I know that I was lucky, because I managed. There are thousands of people in Norway that are starving on a regular basis... but I somethimes wonder if it is illegal to talk about them? I worked in a prison for 8 months as a clinical psychologist. I met people that were doomed because they didn't follow the rules they couldn't understand. That made them get put in to an even stricter system that they don't understand. I met many people in that prison that had had such a life that I felt like congratulating them for still being alive. I heard storied about 10 year old boys that had never spoken to a grown up. I heard stories av maltreating, beatings, sexual abuse, torturing. Things behind the doors that every Norwegian know about, but a scial rule makes it illegal to mention. I have friends who has experienced all the shit that these people had, but that had managed to stay out of prison. Now, well. In a way good that they are put in to prison and at least picked up somewhere?
The only problem is that the prison is full of rules reflecting the social world to the degree that it is ridiculous. I was treating a drug addict for example... a person who had been in and out of jail the last 15 years. I had agreed with my patient that now it was about time to do something about that, so he signed up on a treatment program. Then we applied for the prison, stating he had severly drug problems and needed to go through such a program to get help. he was denied becaus ethe urine samples taken from him the last three months proved that he had been using drugs in prison. He could not be scheduled for a drug abus etreatment program before he was clean. I went to someone a bit hight up in the system and asked me to explain the logic behind that, but he got mad when I asked about it. Because "everyone had to understand such a simple matter. A rule is a rule, and the rule is stating that to get any kind of advantage you have to show positive behaviour in the prison. Drug treatment is viewed as an advantage because it is assumed that the prisoner will benefit from it. A positive urine sample is a negative behaviour. Thereby, he can't go".
A collegue of mine asked the director of the prsion if she could start a drug treatment group in the prison, and the response was that "a prison is not a treatment place, but a punishment". Fair enough. I still have a problem understanding what makes this such a good thing that we keep up with it?
I agree with the previous poster. I think it is scary when common sense is swapped out with rigid rules. Who does it benefit?
Just asking
(yes I know this is probably not the right board, but I dunno which board would be correct and how to redirect it).
Charlie
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 4, 2004, at 5:38:39
In reply to Another 3-post rule?, posted by Dr. Bob on October 27, 2004, at 11:14:57
> This rule is being applied retroactively?
>
> gg
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041027/msgs/410911.htmlI think that makes sense, how about it?
> If that is so, what are you suggesting that I do if a future post, that you have not addressed, and has in it a statement that I did read and consider to be either accusitive or sarcastic or defaming to me, or such other similar kinds of statements, directed at me by the poster? If you are saying that I can email to you concerning the post, what could I do to deal with it if you do not reply to me within some time period that we have not established yet, and could a resonable time period for this be 12 hours?
>
> Lou Pilder
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20041027/msgs/411059.htmlYou can email me. The time period we discussed before was 2 days. For other suggestions, maybe ask at Psycho-Babble Social?
Bob
Posted by gardenergirl on November 4, 2004, at 10:41:48
In reply to Re: Just to clarify new rule, posted by Dr. Bob on November 4, 2004, at 5:38:39
The retroactive application of this new rule, (and I assume you have decided to implement it??) worries me in that there are some who are already "in the hole" and may not know it. In addition, I think it's unfair to apply a new rule to old events. If the rule were in place at the time of the old posts, the poster may have decided on a different approach.
In pro football, coaches need to use their requests for instant replay review carefully as they only have a limited number. I think this caution would apply here as well if people had known they had a limited number prior to posting.
So in short, I do not think it should be applied retroactively.
gg
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 4, 2004, at 22:36:51
In reply to Re: Just to clarify new rule » Dr. Bob, posted by gardenergirl on November 4, 2004, at 10:41:48
> In pro football, coaches need to use their requests for instant replay review carefully as they only have a limited number.
I agree, there are advantages to starting from scratch. But even if A has exhausted his or her 3 requests for reviews of B:
1. A can still monitor others.
2. Others can still monitor B.Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 17, 2005, at 10:13:22
In reply to Re: Just to clarify new rule, posted by Dr. Bob on November 4, 2004, at 22:36:51
> > > I am Poster A. Twice I have asked Administration to make a call on Poster B’s posts ** that weren’t about me or something I’d written** Twice Admin has ruled that his/her posts were civil. Would I ever again be able to question a Poster B post?
> >
> > A could keep questioning them. But if any more of the questioned posts were considered civil, those complaints would be considered uncivil.
>
> Even if A's requests ** were about something B said about A or something A had written ** (as opposed to some other question about the acceptability of what B posted)?Right, even then.
> we can't defend ourselves if we'd like to, because we don't need to?
>
> Minnie-Haha
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050614/msgs/513685.htmlSorry, let me back up. I think what makes this hard is defense sometimes becomes offense. It's always fine to clarify what you meant in a previous post (as long as you're civil), if that's what you mean...
--
> Sorry - it took a while to find them:
>
> AuntieMel
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20050614/msgs/513714.htmlThanks for taking that time. So we do already have this rule! Sorry about my memory lapse.
I'd like to leave it up to posters whose posts are objected to to invoke this. If there's a third "false alarm", they can do so by letting me know the URLs of the objections.
Bob
Posted by so on June 17, 2005, at 19:29:23
In reply to Re: 3-complaint rule, posted by Dr. Bob on June 17, 2005, at 10:13:22
Then if a person openly asks a general question about what it might be permissible to write here, then is the third such request deemed uncivil?
For example, this post is not a complaint. It is a question. How does it count?
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