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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 183 to 207 of 291. Go back in thread:
Posted by Toph on September 30, 2004, at 11:46:50
In reply to Lou's response to Toph's post-2, posted by Lou Pilder on September 30, 2004, at 10:00:11
> ..."i appreciate evrything you have to say. i enjoyed reading your posts... >
>Lou, I have appreciated some of the things you have said and have supported you on this board --on the other hand, I have not always appreciated the way that you have said it. Toph
Posted by Dinahmari on September 30, 2004, at 11:57:02
In reply to Alternate proposals, and alternate choices » alesta, posted by Dinahmari on September 30, 2004, at 11:38:16
your position, or misinterpreted it.
I am summarizing my understanding of what you have said.
Frequent posters "cramp" less frequent ones
A more equitable "sharing" of the board is desirable so as to encourage less frequent posters to post more.
It is a good thing to allow others to help, even if it means being less helpful yourself.
Less frequent posters may be intimidated by frequent posters, and the fact that frequent posters may often welcome them, answer their questions, or respond to threads with few responses does not offset this intimidation factor.
You believe the three post limit would help this situation more than, say, a daily limit.
Is it possible to have a computer enforced limit of some sort so as to avoid public humiliation of being told you talk too much? Honestly, that would probably also solve my problem of being afraid I'll harm myself mid meltdown because of an admin action. If it's possible under your computer writing code, wouldn't it be more compassionate?
I'm sorry if I inadvertantly broke the three post limit on this occasion. There are so many posts going on on this thread that I had trouble counting.
(BTW, Dr. Bob. Perhaps you can see some value in Lou's style of posting if you think about your own way of answering posts. People often think you forget to address certain aspects of their post, and admittedly it may be difficult to remember all parts of a question. If you addressed each part separately, it might be easier for you to remember to answer it all.)
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 30, 2004, at 12:07:30
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Toph's post-2 » Lou Pilder, posted by Toph on September 30, 2004, at 11:46:50
Toph,
You wrote that[... there are some things that you appreciate that I have written and that there are some times that you have not always appreciated the way I have said it...].
But there are many people now writing that they appreciate my posting style. Could not those people have the opportunity to read what I am posting in my style? Are there not posts here that could have the potential for others to think that the 3-post rule is unwarrented?
Let us look at Dinah's post about this. She writes to me,"I think that your posting style is just fine. It doesn't bother me one whit." and, [...feel free to respond to my posts with as many posts as you like...], and [...This can't be easy for you. (((Lou))))...].
Lou
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040927/msgs/397223.html
Posted by SLS on September 30, 2004, at 12:16:03
In reply to Alternate proposals, and alternate choices » alesta, posted by Dinahmari on September 30, 2004, at 11:38:16
I'm not sure what the best answer is.
This is just a visual:
* Test Anyone
* Test SLS
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* Test Anyone
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* Test Anyone
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- Scott
Posted by All Done on September 30, 2004, at 12:20:36
In reply to Re: limit of 3 consecutive posts, posted by Dr. Bob on September 29, 2004, at 4:51:17
To All,
Here’s what bothers me the most about all of this. It’s actually not the rule itself or the fact that it is being discussed and debated. I always welcome all views and I am even open to changing mine as a result. What upsets me is that I believe this entire discussion and the advent of the 3-post limit started this time because of one specific poster and his posting style. No matter what anyone says, I cannot bring myself to believe that this is truly a general discussion. It feels like a witch hunt to me.
I do not argue that this discussion needed to be and something needs to be decided and implemented fairly. Some posters have done an excellent job of sticking to the issue at hand without using specific examples. For those that haven’t, I wonder if using one person as the constant example is unfair and could be hurtful. Lou is handling this with more grace and dignity than I know I could ever muster. I imagine I would have run into hiding for a very long time by this point.
Thanks for listening,
Laurie
Posted by TofuEmmy on September 30, 2004, at 12:38:48
In reply to Re: how we dicuss this, posted by All Done on September 30, 2004, at 12:20:36
A wonderful example of why I think you're swell. Kisses, emmy
Posted by alesta on September 30, 2004, at 12:44:07
In reply to Alternate proposals, and alternate choices » alesta, posted by Dinahmari on September 30, 2004, at 11:38:16
hi, dinahmari,:)
thanks for sharing your ideas!:)
hmm..i just don't think such a broad approach would work. here are a couple examples as to why:
some people like to post only on weekends, for instance, or only a portion of the week. this daily posting limit would surely work to their disadvantage and be unfair.
also, some people do post a lot more but are helping a lot more people on the boards--we wouldn't want to prevent people from being helped
because posters aren't allowed to answer anymore questions due to a posting limit.and, third, i think this idea would prove to be very inconvenient and annoying to many, and a bit heavyhanded.
take care :),
amy
Posted by alesta on September 30, 2004, at 13:08:44
In reply to Lou's rsponse to alesta's idea-2--dr. bob, lou-ht » alesta, posted by Lou Pilder on September 30, 2004, at 11:41:42
> alesta,
> You wrote,[...I think your idea...is fantastic...].
> Well, I think that we could also go further in my suggestion to include what is to happen if the poster posts befor the 3-hour halt is over.
> I belive that any blocking in this situation to be inappropriate. If the rule that I am suggesting was considerd to have merit here, then I suggest that if the poster in question posts before the 3-hour halt is over, that the halt could be extended to 6 more hours.Then of course, if the poster posts before the 6-hour halt is over, then a 12-hour halt and so forth. The idea that I am trying to present here is that posting in a consecutive posting manner is not something that I consider to be disruptive or annoying and I would not like that to be considered to be such by associating it with things that carry with it a blocking, such as using profanity here.
> Louhi lou,
i don't understand how what you're proposing will work. it looks like with your system a person can just keep on posting! while simply getting warnings of a halt each time that they need not obey..this achieves nothing. i still prefer my idea of a warning.<The idea that I am trying to present here is that posting in a consecutive posting manner is not something that I consider to be disruptive or annoying
but it is, lou. all the excessive unnecessary posting prevents certain posts from being addressed or read by people. i know i personally i would hate it if i posted a question that was important to me and it disappeared quickly from the board with few responses. this affects people and in some cases may hurt them, as they may have otherwise received some very significant, important piece of information to aid their well-being or health. i am usually very satisfied with the turnover on PB. i've never been dissappointed. but i know if someone started *unnecessarily* posting excessively in the manner that you have, it would probably frustrate me for the reasons stated above.
amy:)
Posted by AuntieMel on September 30, 2004, at 13:34:19
In reply to Re: how we dicuss this, posted by All Done on September 30, 2004, at 12:20:36
Thank you Laurie. It seems that all this finger pointing is an example of why we that we *have* civility rules in the first place.
Posted by AuntieMel on September 30, 2004, at 13:35:20
In reply to Re: how we dicuss this, posted by All Done on September 30, 2004, at 12:20:36
Posted by AuntieMel on September 30, 2004, at 13:39:18
In reply to Alternate proposals, and alternate choices » alesta, posted by Dinahmari on September 30, 2004, at 11:38:16
I'll step out on a limb here and say that if each person was to have a daily limit that this place would get pretty dead.
Another idea! <just kidding> instead of blocking for lack of civility, the daily limit can be reduced. Start with one post/day and each day of civility adds one more!
meanwhile I think I've just hit my 3
Posted by AuntieMel on September 30, 2004, at 14:09:28
In reply to Re: Alternate proposals, and alternate choices, posted by SLS on September 30, 2004, at 12:16:03
I don't think either one is better, but I think if the idea is to keep any one person from posting over and over and over then I think the second one is better. Most people <I've never seen an example to the contrary> would just give up after about 6-8 tries and no response.
However if there is a response.....
In case nobody has noticed, this whole thing didn't get messy until others jumped in.
The first way it becomes a dialogue and can go on forever.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 30, 2004, at 14:09:45
In reply to Re: how we dicuss this, posted by All Done on September 30, 2004, at 12:20:36
All Done,
You wrote,[...Thanks for listening...].
I listened and you are welcome.
You wrote,[...No matter what anyone says, I cannot...believe that this is truly a general discussion. It feels like a witch hunt to me...].
There is a test to determine if something is a witch-hunt. Could you point out what you think is being done in this discussion that could qualify the discussion to be a witch-hunt? If we list those things, then we can see if your feelings are correct.
Best regards,
Lou
Posted by AuntieMel on September 30, 2004, at 14:11:56
In reply to Alternate proposals, and alternate choices » alesta, posted by Dinahmari on September 30, 2004, at 11:38:16
What if there is a person that really needs help right away. Three posts are a lot more likely to be ignored than 10. It seems too cruel to limit this person.
Posted by AuntieMel on September 30, 2004, at 14:13:58
In reply to Lou's response to All Done-wtchnt » All Done, posted by Lou Pilder on September 30, 2004, at 14:09:45
It sure seems that all pretense of this being 'hypothetical' has gone down the tubes.
Posted by Toph on September 30, 2004, at 14:20:44
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Toph's post-2 » Toph, posted by Lou Pilder on September 30, 2004, at 12:07:30
Lou, I've said about as much as I'd like to say about the subject of unconventional posting styles. It seems to me that you are intelligent enough to know what you do, why you do it and what it does to many of those who encounter it. Again, I don't believe that I've ever objected to any of the content of your posts. Toph
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 30, 2004, at 14:56:18
In reply to Re: witchhunt - I don't know, but... » Lou Pilder, posted by AuntieMel on September 30, 2004, at 14:13:58
Aunti Mel,
You wrote,[...It sure seems that all prestense of this being "hypothetical" has gone down the tubes...].
I understand the use of the word "pretense" hear, but I am not familiar with the phrase,[...gone down the tubes...]. Could you help me here in understanding that phrase?
Best regards,
Lou
Posted by SLS on September 30, 2004, at 15:02:34
In reply to Re: witchhunt - I don't know, but... » Lou Pilder, posted by AuntieMel on September 30, 2004, at 14:13:58
> It sure seems that all pretense of this being 'hypothetical' has gone down the tubes.
How so?
Like I've said before, it is not the fault of any one person that the boards were vulnerable to abuse. It is just that recent posting behaviors have demonstrated a previously unrecognized or under-appreciated need.
- Scott
Posted by All Done on September 30, 2004, at 15:06:28
In reply to Lou's response to All Done-wtchnt » All Done, posted by Lou Pilder on September 30, 2004, at 14:09:45
> All Done,
> You wrote,[...Thanks for listening...].
> I listened and you are welcome.
> You wrote,[...No matter what anyone says, I cannot...believe that this is truly a general discussion. It feels like a witch hunt to me...].
> There is a test to determine if something is a witch-hunt. Could you point out what you think is being done in this discussion that could qualify the discussion to be a witch-hunt? If we list those things, then we can see if your feelings are correct.
> Best regards,
> Lou
>
Hi, Lou.First off, I hope in my attempt to respond to you, I do not offend the entire PB population. I don’t know that I’m very good at following the civility guidelines, so most of the time I don’t say much. That is the reason I will add the disclaimer (for what it’s worth) that I do not believe everyone is in support of the new rule for the same reasons and I can see both sides of the argument in some cases. I do not believe that everyone is in support of the new rule just to stop you from posting the way you have in the past.
That said, while I am personally unaware of any test to determine if something is a witch hunt, I will attempt to answer your question of why I feel this is like a witch hunt. There have been quite a few posts that use, in support of the three-post limit, examples that are strikingly similar to (or in some cases actually) some of your past posts or your posting style, which has a unique quality to it. It seems rather obvious to me that some have taken offense specifically to your posting style and would like to implement a rule that would basically affect only you and your posting style at this point in time. Although the rule may have other benefits or purposes, they find it mainly to be an effective way of stopping you from posting the way you had in the past. Okay. I think I’m walking a the fine civility line here - may have even crossed it - so I’ll stop.
Please note, though, that while I have attempted to explain why this *feels* *like* a witch hunt to me, I don’t exactly understand how we can determine if my "feelings are correct". They are just my feelings and I am not saying that this is, in fact, a witch hunt.
Take care,
Laurie
Posted by SLS on September 30, 2004, at 15:17:39
In reply to Re: All Done's response to Lou » Lou Pilder, posted by All Done on September 30, 2004, at 15:06:28
> First off, I hope in my attempt to respond to you, I do not offend the entire PB population. I don’t know that I’m very good at following the civility guidelines, so most of the time I don’t say much.
I'm not a moderator, but I found your post to be very well composed and entirely civil.
> There have been quite a few posts that use, in support of the three-post limit, examples that are strikingly similar to (or in some cases actually) some of your past posts or your posting style, which has a unique quality to it.
Was my visual demonstration something that you were referring to?
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 30, 2004, at 15:25:47
In reply to Re: All Done's response to Lou » Lou Pilder, posted by All Done on September 30, 2004, at 15:06:28
Hi, All Done,
You wrote,[It seems... obvious to me...some ...would like to implement a rule that would basically affect only you and your posting style...].
I would like to do a thread on this, but the limitation of the 3-post rule could have the potential for me not to be able to do that. The reason being that I have a rare neurological condition that causes me to post in the "unique?" manner of mine.
Lou
Posted by All Done on September 30, 2004, at 15:26:19
In reply to Re: All Done's response to Lou » All Done, posted by SLS on September 30, 2004, at 15:17:39
> I'm not a moderator, but I found your post to be very well composed and entirely civil.
>> Thank you, Scott. I really appreciate you saying that. :)
> Was my visual demonstration something that you were referring to?>> Nope. In all honesty, I did not have any particular post in mind.
Take care,
Laurie
Posted by Dinahmari on September 30, 2004, at 16:08:43
In reply to Re: Alternate proposals, and alternate choices » Dinahmari, posted by alesta on September 30, 2004, at 12:44:07
Well, clearly I don't have a problem with frequent posters or I wouldn't be one. :) I had always rather thought they were a *good* thing, or again, I would have self censored myself.
But Dr. Bob has stated that he doesn't want less frequent posters to be cramped by more frequent ones. And that he wishes to implement rules to encourage less frequent posters to post more by encouraging more frequent posters to post less. I don't quite understand the rationale for this particular incarnation of the rule, because this sort of posting behavior is not *the* type that interferes most with his stated goals. Indeed, he admits that it happens infrequently. So how it hinders less frequent posters from posting more frequently is beyond me. But perhaps he will add more rules later to help the less frequent poster feel less constrained by more frequent posters.
My contribution is merely to suggest alternatives that automate the implementation of the rule so that one (and that one could well be me) is not publicly embarassed by being told by Dr. Bob that one is posting too much.
Of course, if I had my druthers, Dr. Bob's program would also scan posts for naughty words and put up reminders before you hit confirm so that nobody receives a PBC for inadvertanly forgetting to replace a letter with a *.
And my question is "Wouldn't it be better and more compassionate for the computer to tell one *before* one posts that one is over one's limit (whatever that limit may be) than to wait until after the fact to have Dr. Bob publicly point that out?"
The only reason I suggested the daily posting limit is that it might be hard for the computer to figure out this byzantine rule. It's hard for me to figure it out, count posts, try to figure out if I'm replying to different posters and am thus exempt, etc.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 30, 2004, at 16:42:32
In reply to Re: Alternate proposals, and alternate choices, posted by SLS on September 30, 2004, at 12:16:03
> I'm not sure what the best answer is.
>
> This is just a visual:
>
>
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>
> - Scott
>
Scott,
In your post above, you wrote that this is just a visual.
I am not familiar with this type of post that you made. Could you tell me what that type of post mean?
thanks in advance,
Lou
Posted by SLS on September 30, 2004, at 16:47:18
In reply to Lou's request to Scott » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on September 30, 2004, at 16:42:32
> > I'm not sure what the best answer is.
> >
> > This is just a visual:> In your post above, you wrote that this is just a visual.
> I am not familiar with this type of post that you made. Could you tell me what that type of post mean?
I was trying to demonstrate what a webpage would look like when many consecutive posts are submitted.
- Scott
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