![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 194. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 20, 2002, at 13:54:49
Dr. Bob,
You posted on the faith board,"Please be civil>>Lou Pider 10/16/02"
In your admonishment to me, you wrote that I should respect the views of others.
Could you tell me who the "others" are?
If you tell me who they are, then I can post accordingly, but as it stands, I do not know who the "others" are.
Also, it appears to me ,unless you give me some additional infomation, that from this point on, I will not be able to quote the Rider, who is The Word of God in my experiance, at all, for if I do, then according to your admonishment, I beleive that I (could) be subject to another admonishment by you to not be respecting the views of "others" because, for instance, if I said that the Rider said that one should not have any other Gods before Him, then would you admonish me as being not respectfull of "others" that are polythiests? Also, if I quoted the Rider , again, when He said that the pharmakeia would be cast into the Lake of Fire, which is the Second Death, would I be admonished for not being respective to those that take mind-altering drugs? It was my understanding that the faith board was created for those , like myself, to tell of their experiances with God and I am, indeed, telling of what I experianced. Are you saying that (now) no one can tell of their experiance with God on the board that has been established for that purpose? I did not say myself the statement that you deem disrespectfull, but quoted the Rider, who is he Word of God in my experiance. Are you saying that there are others that can prove that there is no God and that is who you are referring to as the "others"?
I would like you to clarify this situation so that I could know how, if at all, how I could continue with telling the board my experiance that I call "The 7 Gates on the Road to the Crown of Life for others have told of their experiances without admonishment, such as the poster that said she beleived in the father, the son and the holy ghost . I am not a member of christiandom and I do not beleive, and there are others also that do not beleive, that God is what christiandom calls a trinity, yet that poster was allowed to state his/her views about God. There are posters telling of there experiance with Zen and other religions. I have no problem with that, for the faith board has been established, I thought, so that people could freely tell of their experiances with God and so it was my understanding that I could tell of my experiance also. I am not intending to be disrespectfull to anyone here by telling of my experiance. I am telling of my experiance because you want me to do so. You said that since I was able to overcome addiction and depression that I could tell on this board my experiance so that the potential for others to also overcome could be made available to them by reading my experiance.
If you could clarify how I can quote the Rider, who in my experiance is The Word of God , in the future to me, if at all, then I could contstruct my posts accordingly to be acceptable to your standards.
Lou
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 20, 2002, at 18:25:21
In reply to Lou's response to Dr. Bob's post, posted by Lou Pilder on October 20, 2002, at 13:54:49
> > The Rider turned to us and said, "Only a fool, in his heart, says that there is no God."
> > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20021001/msgs/1097.html> In your admonishment to me, you wrote that I should respect the views of others.
> Could you tell me who the "others" are?Those who say in their hearts there is no God.
> Also, it appears to me ,unless you give me some additional infomation, that from this point on, I will not be able to quote the Rider, who is The Word of God in my experiance, at all, for if I do, then according to your admonishment, I beleive that I (could) be subject to another admonishment by you to not be respecting the views of "others" because, for instance, if I said that the Rider said that one should not have any other Gods before Him, then would you admonish me as being not respectfull of "others" that are polythiests?
Yes, that's a constraint at PBF.
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 6:32:47
In reply to Re: respecting the views of others, posted by Dr. Bob on October 20, 2002, at 18:25:21
Dr. Bob,
I do respect the views of others. I have not posted that others could not post of Their religious experiances. I am not asking for (special) rights, but (equal) rights.
There are posters here explaining their catholicism, and how they see it as a sin to not go to church.And that they take holy communion. I have never objected to that post. That poster has not been restraned from saying that.
There is a post about believing in the father, the son, and the holy ghost. I did not object to that post. That poster has not been restrained from saying that.
There is a post that says that Luther and other religious historical people have OCD. That poster has not been restrained from saying that.
I realise that those, and other posts about peoples faith are NOT in any way disrespectfull to me, being a jew, and not believing in their post. I respect all religions and I believe that we all have equal rights here to express our faith on the faith board for that is what you created the faith board for. Could you clarify what your descriminatory rational is for allowing those posts and restraining my post? If you could clarify that ,then I could construct my posts to fit your restraints. As of now, it appears to me that you would restrain me from saying that the God of the Jews, can not be posted on this board if I say that the basic tenant of Judaism, which is that there is one God, and that jews are to obey the commandment to have no other Gods before Him, which the breaking of is idolatry to jews.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 7:25:32
In reply to Re: respecting the views of others, posted by Dr. Bob on October 20, 2002, at 18:25:21
Dr. Bob,
Posting one's faith experiance does not mean that you disrespect other's faiths. And just because one has A point of view, that does not mean that that one disrespects other's points of view.
Lou
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 21, 2002, at 7:57:11
In reply to Having a faith does not mean that you disrespect » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 7:25:32
I find this comment pretty dis-respectful
"Only a fool, in his heart, says that there is no God."
You are calling me a fool for not believing in god.
nikki
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 8:07:13
In reply to Re: respecting the views of others, posted by Dr. Bob on October 20, 2002, at 18:25:21
Dr. Bob,
You cited the PBF page. On that page it says that "It is OK to share what has worked for you". Are you saying that (now) if someone shares "what worked for them" that they will be deemed disrespectfull to others? I am only telling of my experiance here, as you have stated that one can do. I am not saying that anyone (must) be jewish, just as the other posters have not said that others (must) be Zen people, or Catholic people, or people of other faiths that have been mentioned here. The fact that I am jewish and the jewish faith requieres that jews worship only one God does not mean that you or anybody else can not worship many Gods, or no God at all. There is a poster here that says that he/she believes in Greek Mythology. I have never said that he/she can not beleive in many Gods. And you have not restrained that poster's post. Are you saying that you are using some type of descriminatory rational that gives preference to those that believe in Greek Mythology and that they will not be restrained and that I will be restrained if I mention that I beleive in only one God? If you are, then could you tell me what that rational is so that I can post to be in compliance with that rational? There is no statement on the PBF page , as you have stated, that states that one cannot post their experiance with their faith. On the contrary, it says that "It is OK to share what has worked for you."
Lou
Posted by tina on October 21, 2002, at 8:11:20
In reply to It is OK to share what has worked for you » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 8:07:13
As it has been stated above in more than one post, it is the "ONLY FOOLS don't believe in God" part of your quotation that is uncivil, not your beliefs or the sharing thereof. LISTEN to the answers you are given when you pose your questions.
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 8:19:59
In reply to Re: Having a faith does not mean that you disrespect » Lou Pilder, posted by NikkiT2 on October 21, 2002, at 7:57:11
Nickki T2,
No , I am not calling you a fool for not beleiving in God. Nor did I say that as you are accusing me of.
In my experiance that I am telling here, I told of an exchnge that the Rider, who is The word of God in my experiance, said to a person who said to Him that he could do whatever he wants because he did not beleive that there is a God. It was the Rider, who is The Word of God in my experiance that said to him that a fool believes In His Heart that there is no God. I did not say that.
There are posters here that quote what others have said. That does not mean hat the person that is citing the quote is saying that. It only means that the person is quoting someone else. There are posters here that quote Shakespeare and T.S. Elliot. That does not mean that the person making the quote is saying what Shakespere or T.S. Eliot said. Then there is a post right here that says that No one can prove that there is No God.
Lou
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 21, 2002, at 8:36:42
In reply to It is OK to share what has worked for you » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 8:07:13
> You cited the PBF page. On that page it says that "It is OK to share what has worked for you". Are you saying that (now) if someone shares "what worked for them" that they will be deemed disrespectfull to others?
The whole sentence is:
> > As has been discussed before, it's OK to share what's worked for you, but *not* to pressure others to do the same or to put them down for doing something different.
> Could you clarify what your descriminatory rational is for allowing those posts and restraining my post? If you could clarify that ,then I could construct my posts to fit your restraints.
The key is not to pressure others or to put them down. How about just saying that it's worked for you to worship one God?
Bob
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 8:37:22
In reply to Re: It is OK to share what has worked for you » Lou Pilder, posted by tina on October 21, 2002, at 8:11:20
Tina,
The quote that the Rider, who is The Word of God in my experince said was that a fool (In His Heart) says that there is no God.
In telling of what I experianced, the Rider, raised a person from the dead to this man and he still said that he did not beleive that there was a God. The Rider called him a fool (not anyone else)because he rejected God even though he saw a ressurection of the dead. Now , once again, I am only telling my experiance here. I am not saying that you (must) accept it and you are free to reject it. There are more than me in history that have had the type of experiance that I am describing here. There are people who have told that they saw the Virgin Mary in Fatima , Portugal many years ago. Some give credance to their report and one of them, I believe, is still living. She tells of her experiance and people can reject it if they want to. There is a man who has described seeing Jesus in a statue, and a man that has described seeing God on a couthouse pole. No one (must) accept their experiances or my report. I am only telling my expriance here because it enabled mr to overcome depression and addiction and Dr. Bob says that it is OK for me, or anyone else here , to tell what worked for them.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 8:44:06
In reply to Re: but not to put others down, posted by Dr. Bob on October 21, 2002, at 8:36:42
Dr. Bob,
It is not my intention to put Anyone down by telling my experiance here. On the contrary, it is my intention to tell my experince because it "worked for me" as you have stated that one could share.
I am not ashamed of the good news that was revealed to me that gave me the power to overcome addiction and depression.
How about if you allow me to share my experiance here and then when I am finished you can critique it instead of restraining me from freely telling of what "worked for me"?
Lou
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2002, at 9:14:47
In reply to Lou's answer to Dr. Bob's post » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 8:44:06
Lou,
Dr. Bob has been pretty consistent on this. Sharing what works for you is fine. Saying that your belief is that there is one God is fine.
But in the past, Dr. Bob has not permitted others to say that the only path is through belief in Jesus Christ, even though they were quoting church doctrine, and even the Bible.
There have been other quotes that Dr. Bob has deemed did not fall within the guidelines of the board.
Quoting the Rider saying that only a fool does not believe in God is similar. You are only quoting what the rider told you, that is true. But the fact that you are quoting doesn't change that the statement could be seen as offensive or as a put down by those who don't believe in God. And that crosses the line of the rules of the board.
I suspect there are parts of my faith that would be very difficult to share on the board, while staying within board guidelines. Like you, I do not believe there is only one way to "salvation". And I respect your tolerance, Lou. But even so, there are aspects of each person's faith that may be difficult to share on a board with the rules this one has.
Why don't you think about how you can share your experience, and if you have any questions about a specific statement, run it by Dr. Bob first in an email?
Dinah
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 9:20:28
In reply to Re: Lou's answer to Dr. Bob's post » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2002, at 9:14:47
D,
Sorry, but did offer Dr. Bob to vior dair my posts before they would be posted in order to do what you suggested but he declined. I am still willing to send each post to him and let him censor it before it is posted.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 9:28:52
In reply to Re: Lou's answer to Dr. Bob's post » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2002, at 9:14:47
D,
Once again, I did not quote that the Rider, who is the Word of God in my experiance said that evryone is a fool that does not believe in God. The Rider spoke spacifically to a man that witnessed a resurrection of the dead and said to the Rider that he would do any thing that (he) wanted to, for (he) did not beleive that there was a God even though he saw the powere of God resurrecting someone from the dead. The Rider only answered that spacific person. It was a verbal exchange that I remember in my experiance and I am only telling my experiance here. The man BELIEVED In His Heart , which is differen from just believing.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 9:48:43
In reply to Re: Lou's answer to Dr. Bob's post » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2002, at 9:14:47
Dinah,
Sorry, but the faith board has been created for those to share their belief in God. It is expected that when one reads the posts on the faith board that God, and the experiances that people had with God will be posted. So thearfore,IMO, no one has to apologise for posting their experiances with their faith on the faith board. It is their privilege to freely tell of their faith experinces and those that read are aware that God will be mentioned and the experinces of those will be mentioned.
I am sorry that my experiance could be deemed as putting others down to some people, but I do not feel put down because a poster posted their catholic beliefs, or their Zen beliefs, or any other beliefs, or no belief at all. The board is created for that purpose, just as the drug board is created for those to tell of their experiances with their drug(s). When people look at the posts on the faith board, they are not led to believe that people will not be talking about God or their experinces with God. There is full disclosure that God will , and can, be mentioned. Dr. Bob has stated that if people do not want to read, that is Ok. But he also stated that others can not tell others not to read the posts.
Lou
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2002, at 9:58:15
In reply to Lou's answer to Dinah's post-part 2, posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 9:28:52
I do understand Lou. Perhaps you could ask Dr. Bob if wording the sentence differently would have been ok. For example "The man had seen the resurrection and the rider told him that anyone who had seen the dead resurrected and yet still not believed in God was a fool." Would that be ok. It would not be considered a putdown to anyone who had not seen the dead resurrected and still did not believe in God. Perhaps with an additional explanation that this only applied to this one man, and you did not mean to imply that anyone who did not believe in God was a fool?
I'm just throwing out ideas here, Lou. I still think that certain religious thought is difficult to express on the faith board, given the varying religious beliefs, including atheism that are joyfully included there. It is a difficult thing, Lou. As many have discovered when trying to share their faith on the board.
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 10:05:19
In reply to Re: Lou's answer to Dr. Bob's post » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2002, at 9:14:47
Dinah,
You talked about tolerance, and I appreciate that you commmended me for being tolerant.
Then you say that the rules of the board make it (difficult) for one to share their experiance with the others here.
Could you not also request that Dr. Bob examine his rules, rather than to ask me to be restrained in order to accomodate the rule as being an alterntive to allowing me to post my experiance rather than not post my experiance ?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 10:12:50
In reply to Re: Lou's answer to Dinah's post-part 2 » Lou Pilder, posted by Dinah on October 21, 2002, at 9:58:15
Dinah,
You say that it is a difficult thing to express your faith experiance here.
I agree with you! Do you want to suggest reforms that would enable people here, not just me, to make it less difficult to post their experiances in regards to their faith?
Lou
Posted by Dinah on October 21, 2002, at 10:46:34
In reply to Re: Lou's answer to Dinah's post-part 2 » Dinah, posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 10:12:50
To be honest Lou, I think I would rather not express my faith here completely, rather than to change the rules. I respect Dr. Bob's rules here, which are made to keep a certain atmosphere here at the site. And since it's Dr. Bob's site, Dr. Bob gets to choose the atmosphere.
There are many boards where I could share my religious beliefs if I wished to, but only one Babble.
I like a certain personality, I won't use names here. And I went to that person's site, and there was a religion board on that site, and everyone was free to post their views there. The result was that members of one religion were saying that members of another religion were going to hell, because they didn't have the correct view of God and Jesus, or that their baptisms were not valid, etc. That religion of course responded in kind. It was highly unpleasant. Everyone was doing nothing but reporting what their faith and their church believed, but the result was that others felt attacked.
Dr. Bob doesn't want that here. I understand that you are not attacking those of other religions, I have always understood that. You have always been extremely respectful of my religious views. But there are probably things in my faith experience as well as yours that no matter how well worded, cannot be said at Babble without violating the site guidelines. Even as quotes from the Rider, or the New Testament, or the Tanakh.
I empathise with your dilemma. I really do. And I hope that you can find a way to word your experience in such a way that does not violate site guidelines, since I can tell it is important for you to share your experience.
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 21, 2002, at 12:11:45
In reply to Re: Having a faith does not mean that you disrespect » NikkiT2, posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 8:19:59
Other people don't post quotes that are offensive in that way.
I'm offended.
I'm also offended that you seem to think that peole are attacking you for simply stating your views. I have been supportive of you int he past, as your view are as important as anyone elses.
But making statements such as calling people fools, when quoting, para phrasing or what ever is still offensive.
Nikki
Posted by oracle on October 21, 2002, at 17:36:19
In reply to Re: but not to put others down, posted by Dr. Bob on October 21, 2002, at 8:36:42
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 18:55:41
In reply to Ah, the beginning of the end (nm), posted by oracle on October 21, 2002, at 17:36:19
Oracle,
Good evening, Mr. Oracle. I have been reading a lot of your posts. I am delighted to be on the same thread with you. Could you clarify what you mean by the "beginning" and the "end". If you could clarify those , then ,perhaps, we could have a discussion about your end and your beginning. I hope tha you will explin them to me so we can have a discussion.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 19:02:47
In reply to Lou mets Oracle » oracle, posted by Lou Pilder on October 21, 2002, at 18:55:41
Oracle,
I meant that I wanted to discuss your "end", not your end.
Sorry for leaving out the quotes,
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 22, 2002, at 7:36:13
In reply to Re: but not to put others down, posted by Dr. Bob on October 21, 2002, at 8:36:42
Dr. Bob,
Are you going to accuse me of "putting down others" because I want to post that the Rider, who is the Word of God in my experiance, said to me, "I am the Lord your God, you shall have no other Gods before me"? You later suggest that I can leave in the "one God" part, but you did not include the part that I "should have no other Gods before me", so that could mean that I will be restrianed by you if I post (that part) on the faith board.
Being a jew, we have a commandment from my God that if we worship other Gods, then it is considered idolatry to us. Nor can we worship idols, either.
Now you say that you will restrain me from posting that I "should have no other Gods before me". in the telling of my experiance on the Faith board. Your rule on the faith board says that you can tell "what worked for you." It also says not put others down or pressure others. Are you saying that you will accuse me of either "pressuring others" or "putting down others" if I would tell of my faith experiance when I was told by the Rider, who is The Word of God in my experiance, to not worship other Gods?
I would like for you to clarify why you would accuse me of this, if I post the formentioned quote on the faith board,, as to how another poster can post that she is catholic and her religion tells her not to forsake going to church, or it is a sin to her and you did not restrain her and accuse her of "putting down others", or "pressuring others" because she told of one of the parts to Her religion that she is to follow. Are you telling me that a catholic person can freely tell of there parts of there religion that they are to follow, but a jewish person, like myself, will be restrained from telling their parts of their religion that they are to follow on this electronic bullitin board?
I would like to know what your descriminating rational is to make such a restraint upon me, and how your rational allows the Catholic person to post their parts of their religion that they are to follow. If you would clarify that, then I could have a better knowlege to rationals on this board that you use to determine acceptability and then I could formulate my posts to accomodate those rationalas. As of now, I am under the impresson that catholics can tell of parts of their religion that they are to follow, but jewish people, like myself, on this board will be restrained if they post one of the parts of their religion that they are to follow,ie, to have no other Gods before them. I am Not saying that others Must follow the jewish God and niether is the Catholic person saying that others Must follow their God and go to their church. I am not putting people down because I am a jew and niether is the Catholic lady putting people down because she says that she is a Catholic. Are you saying that the Zen person that posts here is could alo be accused of"putting people down" because they post of their Zen beliefs using your rational? I am telling my experiance , as I have been invited by you to do on the faith board which was created for people to tell of their faith as your opening page states on the faith board.
I would like to continue telling of my experiance on the faith board so that others could see it and then choose, if they want to, to see if it could help them, for you said that the faith board was for me to tell my experiance because since it worked for me, then it could have the potential to work for others. But I can not do so untill you clarify if you are going to restrain me from posting the post in question here and what your descrimiating rational is so that I can accomodate your rational.
Lou
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 22, 2002, at 8:34:51
In reply to Telling of your faith does not put down others » Dr. Bob, posted by Lou Pilder on October 22, 2002, at 7:36:13
Lou,
Myself and others have told you where you went wrong with your post and how we felt offended by it, but you have convieniately not replied to them or seem to have taken any notice of them.
Dr Bob is NOT saying you can't post your experiences, but using language that will offend others (such as calling us fools) is not acceptable.
Nikki
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