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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 46 to 70 of 70. Go back in thread:
Posted by beardedlady on July 23, 2002, at 8:35:10
In reply to Re: The queen is dead. Long live the queen! » beardedlady, posted by Dinah on July 23, 2002, at 8:12:45
> I guess we all have different opinions as to what is worthy of admiration.
I think this is kind of smug. I got a good cackle out of their posts! And now stand above me with some sort of pedagogical admonishment.
Yes, we do all have different opinions. But your wording seems to suggest that you have a better idea of what's "worthy" than I.
beardy
Posted by Dinah on July 23, 2002, at 8:42:37
In reply to Re: The queen is dead. Long live the queen! » Dinah, posted by beardedlady on July 23, 2002, at 8:35:10
Posted by SandraDee on July 23, 2002, at 9:51:53
In reply to Re: We've got a guy here... » wendy b., posted by IsoM on July 23, 2002, at 2:55:47
that post. That post you put together took a lot of time. Since I'm relatively new here, I don't know all the happenings since January. I went back into some of the archives to better understand Lou when I was conversing with him, but didn't get anywhere worth while. I really, honestly, appreciate being sort of "up-to-date" on the issues at hand here. Your post was valuable to me, is what I guess I'm trying to say. (?)
P.S. Anyhow, I forgive Lou. If Kiddo "needed" forgiveness, then I need to forgive Lou.
Posted by Mashogr8 on July 23, 2002, at 10:45:49
In reply to I really, truly, appreciate... » IsoM, posted by SandraDee on July 23, 2002, at 9:51:53
I second that message which appears to be just above. I've been trying to figure the whole trail out and just got more and more frustrated. Thank you.
But now I'm not sure whether your comments were real or tongue in cheek? Sorry, I cant see the name of the poster who went to all the trouble of writing the Cliff Notes of posts.
This whole thread however, except for one or two posts, seems to belong on the faith board. Or, have I been misinterpreting things again?
MA
Posted by judy1 on July 23, 2002, at 10:57:38
In reply to Re: We've got a guy here... » wendy b., posted by IsoM on July 23, 2002, at 2:55:47
for seeing what all this is. I've been very ill at times myself. Take care of yourself- judy
Posted by IsoM on July 23, 2002, at 11:34:29
In reply to Bless you Judy » IsoM, posted by judy1 on July 23, 2002, at 10:57:38
Bob prefers that we be supportive. He also has stated that he'd like it if we could post links to any posts that we mention of others. So this is what I've tried to do. My previous post was the best possible way I could think to bring everything together with links & quotes and still make it supportive.
I don't want the title of 'queen' passed to me (thanks beardy). Crowns sit uneasily on my head, mess up my hair, & require that I keep my head straight & level so it won't fall off. What's more like me is the queen of klutzy. I just wanted all this brought together in one place, in as civil and as encouraging a tone as possible. Each person can decide what they think of it themselves.
There's been many new posters that haven't really understood what's been happening before or what's been said. Lou does have a tendency for multiple postings in one thread that can be difficult for others to follow. If everything is brought together, then those who've been away (or too ill to read regularly) plus new posters can get a fairly good idea of where the threads have been leading. I think I did it so each link will lead to a separate thread discussing Lou's experiences & other's questions. That way, if someone desires, they can explore the threads even more.
The more information (not accusations) that's gathered in one place - in one thread - the easier it will be for people to decide whether to continue exploring that theme & whether they wish to continue asking further questions. But all this may be moot, for Lou has said "...this board may not permit me to post the 6th and 7th Gates because they could be in breach of this board's rules. This is not to say that this board's rules should not exist, but it only means that I may have to go someware else to complete the Gates." http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020627/msgs/6584.html
Posted by beardedlady on July 23, 2002, at 13:17:26
In reply to Reason for posting my synopsis on Lou's posts » judy1, posted by IsoM on July 23, 2002, at 11:34:29
Sorry, but the crown is in the mail. I'll Fedex you some bobby pins.
beardy : )>
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 23, 2002, at 13:33:51
In reply to Re: We've got a guy here... » wendy b., posted by IsoM on July 23, 2002, at 2:55:47
> If there is a post that a number of posters feel is beyond the line, and he does not feel that the post is beyond the line, he should explain his reasoning, just as he explains the reasoning when he gives a please be civil.
>
> DinahI think that makes sense. Sorry if I haven't been doing that.
----
> why mansions, lou? just curious. wouldn't it help people more to live simply and donate your money and time to altrusitic charities? this is a straightforward question, not meant to be critical at all.
>
> krazy katSorry, but it strikes me as critical even if you didn't intend it to be. Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, thanks.
----
> So Lou thinks he is God.
>
> Wendy B.In addition to the above, please don't jump to conclusions about others.
----
> We've got a guy here...
> ...with many talents. I think the ability to overcome OCD, bipolar disorder, depression, hearing music continuously, & atrocious spelling, & many other disorders is remarkable for any person to surmount. Credit needs to be given where credit's due. I feel that we should be more supportive of any person that can do so very much despite the odds against them...
>
> IsoMIn addition to the above, please don't be sarcastic.
Bob
Posted by IsoM on July 23, 2002, at 13:47:33
In reply to Re: please be civil » krazy kat, Wendy B., IsoM, posted by Dr. Bob on July 23, 2002, at 13:33:51
Bob, are you saying that a person with emotional & mental disorders can't overcome the odds against them & achieve much? I didn't think I was being sarcastic but felt the need to give someone credit where due. There have been many people who had disabilities that have achieved great things throughout history. Many others with disabilities & disorders may not have achieved great things according to worldy standards, but still have done much in their own humble way to improve the life of others.
Perhaps Lou has done none of what he's said, but perhaps he has. Who's to say? We can't very well run a background check on everything someone posts here but need to reasonably decide whether there's validity in their statements. Perhaps the best thing is to take their word for it unless we feel there's reasons not to believe what they say. Reading their posts may give as some idea of what to believe or not. How else can someone decide without being informed?
Lou, himself, thanked me for bringing his experiences up-to-date. It seems that some others have appreciated it too. Lou's stated that he suffers (or has suffered in the past) from these disorders, & he seems to have accomplished much, despite them (except for his bad spelling but that's no indicator of intelligence anyway).
I'd suggest that it's good to view others comments just as they are without ascribing different motives to them such as sarcasm.
Posted by IsoM on July 23, 2002, at 13:54:02
In reply to too late. » IsoM, posted by beardedlady on July 23, 2002, at 13:17:26
Well, okay. Just be sure it's made of aluminum - that's a light metal. Any more & I'd get a headache. And maybe staples instead of bobby pins - that way it really won't fall off.
An old joke I remembered from a Broomhilda cartoon:
She says to Gaylord, her buzzard friend "I've been having these chest pains lately."
He asks, concerned "Have you seen the doctor about it? What did he say?"
She answers him "He told me I should stop stapling my bra on."It cracked me up so much as I'm not big up top at all & told my friends that would be the best way to get one to fit properly & stay on snuggly.
Posted by krazy kat on July 23, 2002, at 14:24:37
In reply to Re: please be civil » krazy kat, Wendy B., IsoM, posted by Dr. Bob on July 23, 2002, at 13:33:51
"> why mansions, lou? just curious. wouldn't it help people more to live simply and donate your money and time to altrusitic charities? this is a straightforward question, not meant to be critical at all.
>
> krazy katSorry, but it strikes me as critical even if you didn't intend it to be. Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, thanks.
---
Dr. Bob, I was asking Lou a question. All he had to do was answer me with how he WAS helping people and he did. I was not accusing him or putting him down at all - it was a straightforward question. I did not understand how living in a mansion could help his "cause" so to speak.
I'm sorry, Lou, if I offended you. I do understand your answer.
Posted by krazy kat on July 23, 2002, at 14:32:36
In reply to Re: please be civil » krazy kat, Wendy B., IsoM, posted by Dr. Bob on July 23, 2002, at 13:33:51
> > So Lou thinks he is God.
> >
> > Wendy B.
>
> In addition to the above, please don't jump to conclusions about others.Wendy, Wendy, Wendy -- we don't know what Lou thinks. Slap on Wendy's knucles...
> > We've got a guy here...
> > ...with many talents. I think the ability to overcome OCD, bipolar disorder, depression, hearing music continuously, & atrocious spelling, & many other disorders is remarkable for any person to surmount. Credit needs to be given where credit's due. I feel that we should be more supportive of any person that can do so very much despite the odds against them...
> >
> > IsoM
>
> In addition to the above, please don't be sarcastic.
>
> BobBoy, I didn't sense any sarcasm here at all. And it was SO helpful to have some of the posts together - I would ask Lou to do this except I think he prefers starting over (he stated something like that somewhere).
Posted by krazy kat on July 23, 2002, at 14:33:29
In reply to Re: The queen is dead. Long live the queen! » beardedlady, posted by Dinah on July 23, 2002, at 8:12:45
Posted by Phil on July 23, 2002, at 19:05:36
In reply to I do not think I was uncivil... » Dr. Bob, posted by krazy kat on July 23, 2002, at 14:24:37
Say, if we were at a party and I worked into the conversation about living in a mansion and helping the poor, I would "expect' that question from someone. It's legitimate.
Posted by oracle on July 23, 2002, at 22:26:28
In reply to Re: I do not think I was uncivil...you weren't » krazy kat , posted by Phil on July 23, 2002, at 19:05:36
At what point can someone make so many claims
that it is reasonable to conclude a person
is spinning tall tails (of course because of an illness)
and post about this in a civil way ?Reading some of Lou's posts last night caused
me to see think differently. ISO's recap post
made it clear. An issue I had not considered
was made clear which changes my feelings toward Lou
to consern, not dislike.In general, I avoid supporting delusional thinking in others.
It is not helpful to have a ill persons disorganized thinking
supported by others. Is giving this person a board to themselves a good idea;
will this help them get better by providing an audience (to support their delusions)?
Posted by judy1 on July 23, 2002, at 22:59:52
In reply to Dr Bob, question, posted by oracle on July 23, 2002, at 22:26:28
and I started a thread about my own symptoms on PPB and invite you to ask questions. Take care, judy
Posted by oracle on July 24, 2002, at 12:40:48
In reply to I was happy to see your concern » oracle, posted by judy1 on July 23, 2002, at 22:59:52
Where is the thread, I will find this intresting.
However, you have always been forthcoming so
I would not feel uncomfortable asking you things.
I was asking more about those how do not say they
have a problem and continue to post untruths. What do we do them ?
Posted by judy1 on July 24, 2002, at 19:01:34
In reply to Re: I was happy to see your concern » oracle, posted by oracle on July 24, 2002, at 12:40:48
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20020702/msgs/702.html
Please ask anything you want- judy
Posted by oracle on July 26, 2002, at 11:16:38
In reply to Dr Bob, question, posted by oracle on July 23, 2002, at 22:26:28
Given the large numbers of blocks as on late I would appreciate that you answer this question.
I am seeking guidance, and am not posting (as to not stir things up) on this issue till you answer this question:At what point can someone make so many claims
that it is reasonable to conclude a person
is spinning tall tails (of course because of an illness) and post about this in a civil way ?
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 27, 2002, at 5:37:51
In reply to Re: Dr Bob, question ATTENTION, posted by oracle on July 26, 2002, at 11:16:38
> I am seeking guidance, and am not posting (as to not stir things up) on this issue till you answer this question:
>
> At what point can someone make so many claims
> that it is reasonable to conclude a person
> is spinning tall tails (of course because of an illness) and post about this in a civil way ?I think not posting so as not to stir things up is a good idea. Didn't I reply to something like this already? Please try to take into account how the other person might react. I do think not posting so as not to stir things up is a good idea...
Bob
Posted by oracle on July 27, 2002, at 16:53:12
In reply to Re: not posting, posted by Dr. Bob on July 27, 2002, at 5:37:51
I think not posting so as not to stir things up is a good idea. Didn't I reply to something like this already? Please try to take into account how the other person might react. I do think not posting so as not to stir things up is a good idea...
>
> BobI think Lou is delusional. This became clear from ISO's post that pulled all his claims together. I think we need to concentrate on asking him ONLY about his mental health and not engage in the hate, arguing, ect. Pointing out the untruths in his posts does no good. He is also ill so I do not see the point in trying to debate with him.
I think we are allowing an ill person upset us because we assume he is not ill; that his arguments come from a mind not based in reality.
I also allowed myself to think "he is doing this
on purpose" when he was really just manifesting
his illness.I missed this for a long time because I only read Lou's posts here and there. I am mad at myself for not understanding all of this sooner. I allowed one of my trigger issues, religion, to take over. Once I read ISO's post I had an 180 degree shift in my feeling towards Lou, from anger to consern.
I think if we concentrate on reserving our questions and responses to Lou about his health
this issue will resolve itself. At the same time we cannot expect Lou to answer or show us that he is making progress toward health. The hard part about mental illness is that some times nothing we do can help. So it in not fair to get angry
if people do not get better (or try to get better).If some do want to discuss Lou's writings let them them do this on "faith" and leave them alone.
Posted by Dinah on July 28, 2002, at 9:01:08
In reply to Re: not posting, that answer was no help, posted by oracle on July 27, 2002, at 16:53:12
(Ummmm. Lou is only blocked from posting, not from reading. I certainly recognize that your intentions are good, but I thought I'd throw in that reminder.)
I'm not Dr. Bob, but if it would be any help I'll give some examples from my real life (completely disguised of course) and how I choose to deal with it (at my therapist's advice).
Situation 1. Person is suffering from a mistaken idea that involves ME. I know it is mistaken, because after all I am me. Family friend Millie brings me about 50 presents, all suitable for an infant girl, and congratulates me on my new addition. I thank her for thinking of me, tell her how kind it was, but gently point out that she must have me confused with someone else. (Later might call Millie's husband to make sure Millie is still med compliant.)
Situation 2. Error in fact. Millie reminds me that yesterday when we were eating lunch at the White House, President Clinton asked her advice on foreigh affairs. I probably mention that I had been in Philadelphia yesterday, and couldn't have been in Washington. I might or might not mention that Clinton is no longer president. After all, I am not her mental health professional, and am not equipped to intervene in a helpful manner. I probably would call her husband though.
Situation 3. Hard to believe matters of faith. I don't touch those at all. Millie tells me that this morning while shopping at Wal-Mart, an angel of the Lord descended in glory and told her not to use the interstate that day or she would be run over by a truck. I say nothing because, well, how do I know if an angel of the Lord hadn't decided to descend in glory in Wal-Mart. The beliefs of many religions would seem at first glance to be rather improbable. I may have my own beliefs about the matter, but I'm not about to argue them with Millie, because it's pointless. I can't prove it isn't so more than she can prove it is. I would, however, probably try to change the subject. (And I'd probably still call her husband, and I might even avoid the interstate that day.)
Of course, on the internet, we can't call anyone's husband.
In no case was Millie a danger to herself or others.
Just my own thoughts on the matter.
Posted by Dinah on July 28, 2002, at 9:28:13
In reply to Re: not posting, that answer was no helo » oracle, posted by Dinah on July 28, 2002, at 9:01:08
On only one of those scenarios did I consult my therapist and get his advice. And I changed the details of what happened enough so that I really can't claim he advised me to do what I did, although I hope I retained the spirit of the actual occurrance.
Posted by mair on July 28, 2002, at 11:03:05
In reply to Re: not posting, posted by Dr. Bob on July 27, 2002, at 5:37:51
I think the "don't say anything" route isn't always adequate. It seems tailor made for the situation where 1) everyone understands that the statements are delusional, and the statements are such or are made in a manner that they can be mostly ignored; 2) no one is being hurt or targeted by the statements, and 3) the statements themselves or their manner of being posted have not already stirred things up.
If the "don't say anything" route is to work, I think the moderator maybe has to be willing and ready to intervene when conditions 1, 2 & 3 above start to surface.
Mair (IMO of course)
Posted by oracle on July 29, 2002, at 16:48:30
In reply to Re: not posting, that answer was no helo » oracle, posted by Dinah on July 28, 2002, at 9:01:08
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20020702/msgs/702.html
Judy indicates it does no good to point out delusions (or like behavior) I tend to agree.
I guess for me at some point I realize some
folks here are just to ill and continuing to
argue with them is pointless.I can then decide to not read these posts and not have them trigger me. I also do not hold very ill persons responsible for what they say.
This is the end of the thread.
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