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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mair on April 30, 2002, at 17:58:58
Hi Everyone
I signed off about 3 weeks ago and have resisted coming back on except for some ocassional lurking. I miss posting both for the support I get and for the positives I derive from responding to others, but like KK, I'm weary (and wary) of firestorms so now doesn't really seem like a good time to jump back in. I have deliberately read very few of the PBA posts about multiple boards - there are too many and I just don't feel up to it, but I do have some thoughts about this, that I can't seem to keep to myself. Forgive me if they don't seem responsive to specific posts that I haven't read or if I'm repeating things that have been said too many times already.
My context here is that I registered in 2000 under a different moniker, ksvt, and reregistered in 2001 as Mair. During most of that time, I've never strayed away for all that long so unlike some 2000 babblers who never really gave PSB much of a try, I think I've been a somewhat more continuous presence there. I guess I'm eligible for all of the Boards although I wish they didn't exist.
In my opinion , in spite of the bickering, PSB, as it existed before the recent split was every bit as friendly and accepting as PB was in 2000 before the creation of PSB. (actually probably more) While there are now overall many more posters if you consider all of the boards, PSB, anyway, sees certainly no more and possibly fewer posters than did PB before that first split. When I came on in 2000, I was very intimidated by what I felt was the "club" atmosphere of the Board. It took me a long time (months not weeks) to feel like anyone was even remotely aware of my presence. I think new posters now are identified and enveloped into the fold much more easily and quickly.
I have always spoken against an old timers board although I can rather grudgingly see that it makes sense to some. I didn't like it because anything that excludes or appears to exclude rankles. I think it's as simple as that. No one likes to be the kid on the outside looking in. I think what's happened could and should have been anticipated.
If there is some function to the 2000 Board, there is absolutely no function to the 2001 Board except perhaps to make some people feel better about being excluded by giving them the opportunity to exclude someone else. While some people may have identified themselves as pre-the-creation of PSB and post-the-creation of PSB, none of us identify ourselves on a calendar year basis. If there was any logic to another board, the cut off for the old timers board would have been when the Board first split. To cut it off at the end of 2000 seems highly arbitrary and has given some foundation, shaky at best, to the notion of creating new boards every calendar year.
The more Boards the less connecting there will be. For those of us who've been pretty active over enough of a span to want to connect with alot of different people, it's incredibly confusing now just to figure out where to go. Afficianados of the 2000 Board can say now that they intend to spend plenty of time on PSB but how are they going to decide what goes where, and at what point will that become just too much of a hassle? Some of those same people who have advocated for an old timers board, opposed the original creation of PSB because people would untimately choose one board or the other. That really did happen with alot of regular participants. We're all time limited and we have to make choices about how to allocate that time.
Maybe most importantly, when these boards are functioning as they really should, there should be almost no activity on PBA other than the ocassional technical concerns. Controversy, by its very nature, breeds controversy and tends to polarize. I know some controversy is inevitable. As long as I've been around there have always been the ocassional very disruptive poster, the proseletizers, and the overactive-posters who seem to take over the Board for a time and squeeze others out. Functioning on this Board means learning whom and what to avoid and how to ration your participation. However, those disputes generally don't draw as many people into them as the current dispute has. The fact that most of the "social" activity now is on PBA tells me that the Board is probably producing more upset than it is support for alot of people. This imbalance will drive people away, as it has KK, particularly now that there are less controversial and disruptive alternatives like Chat and private email. With such an imbalance, there are fewer positive reasons for people who really need support to be here. The risk is that the Board will become more perpetually attractive to people, like scared, who just like stirring things up.
I think there continues to be a function for PSB that is different and more positive than Chat or private email. But I don't think the current feelings of polarization will just dissipate easily and I think that as much splintering as has occurred will make it more difficult for people to make those connections that seem so important and to get beyond the current feelings of hurt and anger that appear to exist.
I have no magic solutions, particularly knowing Bob's reluctance to back off anything once he's set it up. I do think things would be better if he at least got rid of the 2001 Board. It's not being used alot anyway, and maybe people will feel a little less threatened is they don't have to think that we're always going to be split up in this arbitrary a manner. As a symbolic gesture, maybe it would help put to rest some of the controversy and let people get back to the real work of the Board.
Mair
Posted by Krazy Kat on April 30, 2002, at 20:31:40
In reply to Unsolicited thoughts about multiple boards (long), posted by mair on April 30, 2002, at 17:58:58
Mair:
Your ability to structure an argument (in the strictest sense) is phenomenal.
Thank you for your input. And I don't just mean this because we're on the same page re: a lot of it.
- k.
Posted by mist on May 1, 2002, at 9:33:22
In reply to Unsolicited thoughts about multiple boards (long), posted by mair on April 30, 2002, at 17:58:58
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 2, 2002, at 15:21:01
In reply to Unsolicited thoughts about multiple boards (long), posted by mair on April 30, 2002, at 17:58:58
> In my opinion , in spite of the bickering, PSB, as it existed before the recent split was every bit as friendly and accepting as PB was in 2000 before the creation of PSB. (actually probably more) While there are now overall many more posters if you consider all of the boards, PSB, anyway, sees certainly no more and possibly fewer posters than did PB before that first split. When I came on in 2000, I was very intimidated by what I felt was the "club" atmosphere of the Board. It took me a long time (months not weeks) to feel like anyone was even remotely aware of my presence. I think new posters now are identified and enveloped into the fold much more easily and quickly.
That's a nice perspective, thanks.
> The more Boards the less connecting there will be. For those of us who've been pretty active over enough of a span to want to connect with alot of different people, it's incredibly confusing now just to figure out where to go. Afficianados of the 2000 Board can say now that they intend to spend plenty of time on PSB but how are they going to decide what goes where, and at what point will that become just too much of a hassle? Some of those same people who have advocated for an old timers board, opposed the original creation of PSB because people would untimately choose one board or the other. That really did happen with alot of regular participants. We're all time limited and we have to make choices about how to allocate that time.
IMO, it was good that PSB could be created and become friendly and accepting. Even if it was disruptive for a time and some posters lost touch after the split (which is of course what PB 2000 is for...). The more friendly and accepting boards, the better. It may not be one big happy family, but the more big happy families, the better, too.
> If there is some function to the 2000 Board, there is absolutely no function to the 2001 Board except perhaps to make some people feel better about being excluded by giving them the opportunity to exclude someone else... To cut it off at the end of 2000 seems highly arbitrary and has given some foundation, shaky at best, to the notion of creating new boards every calendar year.
>
> MairIf the 2000 board serves a valid purpose for some posters, might not the 2001 board serve that same purpose for other posters?
Doing it by year is arbitrary, but it does at least have the advantages of being relatively straightforward and of not leaving anybody out, which a "frequent flier" board, for example, would.
So I'd like to try some new boards, but I'm not by any means wedded to the current system. If anyone can think of a better way to do this, I'm open to suggestions!
Bob
Posted by CtrlAlt n Del on May 2, 2002, at 15:36:07
In reply to Re: thoughts about multiple boards, posted by Dr. Bob on May 2, 2002, at 15:21:01
> So I'd like to try some new boards, but I'm not by any means wedded to the current system. If anyone can think of a better way to do this, I'm open to suggestions!
> BobPlease keep 2001..even though I'm the only postie: )
xxxxxtraX
Posted by CtrlAlt n Del on May 2, 2002, at 15:42:31
In reply to Re: thoughts about multiple boards » Dr. Bob, posted by CtrlAlt n Del on May 2, 2002, at 15:36:07
Posted by wendy b. on May 3, 2002, at 8:45:19
In reply to Re: thoughts about multiple boards » Dr. Bob, posted by CtrlAlt n Del on May 2, 2002, at 15:36:07
> > So I'd like to try some new boards, but I'm not by any means wedded to the current system. If anyone can think of a better way to do this, I'm open to suggestions!
>
> > Bob
>
> Please keep 2001..even though I'm the only postie: )
> xxxxxtraXEH-HEM!
Posted by Willow on May 3, 2002, at 10:32:31
In reply to Re: thoughts about multiple boards » CtrlAlt n Del, posted by wendy b. on May 3, 2002, at 8:45:19
I've requested to be moved to the 2001 board. I orginally went to the 2000 board chasing kazoo, but i think he's dumped me, so i'm going to come join my buddies and party away on the 2001 board. If i'm welcome?
Whistling Willow
Posted by kid_A on May 3, 2002, at 11:59:54
In reply to Re: thoughts about 2001, posted by Willow on May 3, 2002, at 10:32:31
>If i'm welcome?
Welcome?! we'll make you an honorary member, you just have to have seen the movie to qualify...
well... maybe not seen the movie...
actually, no qualifications needed... now if id only post in there, maybe Willow can coax me... why am i refering to her in the third person in a message to her... im insane......
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
Posted by Willow on May 3, 2002, at 12:36:21
In reply to Re: thoughts about 2001 » Willow, posted by kid_A on May 3, 2002, at 11:59:54
Posted by NikkiT2 on May 3, 2002, at 13:27:40
In reply to Unsolicited thoughts about multiple boards (long), posted by mair on April 30, 2002, at 17:58:58
I also have to agree with you. I wasone of the ones around in 2000, and have indeed posted a reply on that board (it was directed toward me - asking me where I was!)... But I hate the idea of all this segragation.. it certainly would have scared me off at the time of "joining". It just shouts how cliquey this place can be, and makes it seem like the so ccalled "old timers" wouldn't want anything to do with the likes of me.
I don't know what the answer is, there seems no way to keep evryone happy.
Oh, and i never knew you were ksvt!! I remember you!! *lol*
Nikki
Posted by wendy b. on May 3, 2002, at 14:16:02
In reply to Re: thoughts about 2001, posted by Willow on May 3, 2002, at 10:32:31
> I've requested to be moved to the 2001 board. I orginally went to the 2000 board chasing kazoo, but i think he's dumped me, so i'm going to come join my buddies and party away on the 2001 board. If i'm welcome?
>
> Whistling Willow
Willow,
I hope Bob can reassign you to 2001, we need your input and insights... Always love reading you... Just think Kazoo is shy... Anyway, talk to you soon?Wendy
Posted by CtrlAlt n Del on May 3, 2002, at 14:51:54
In reply to Re: thoughts about multiple boards » CtrlAlt n Del, posted by wendy b. on May 3, 2002, at 8:45:19
Posted by CtrlAlt n Del on May 3, 2002, at 15:04:17
In reply to Re: thoughts about multiple boards, posted by Dr. Bob on May 2, 2002, at 15:21:01
You'll get no appology from me this time doc: )
Seems to me the board problem is no problem , just in early state of evolving into 2 accessible to everyone boards , one serious one not so.
Spillage into eachother..by re-directing .
I do think keep the name 2001 board -
Arthur c Clark will be so pleased when I tell him : )seriously..
Posted by CtrlAlt n Del on May 3, 2002, at 15:56:28
In reply to Re: Thought about Boards » Dr. Bob, posted by CtrlAlt n Del on May 3, 2002, at 15:04:17
Yes , does depend what others percieve as serious and seriously funny/or just social , a difficulty.
Ah but thats when others get into the depths of a thread and it can evolve either way a dispute can be funny ..so could be carried into the discuss seriously board...Bob, I'm confusing myself : ) If someone is asking for help then that's obvious
...Is my logic here making sense , oh well I'm sure someone will be more specific ...medication time...
Posted by CtrlAlt n Del on May 3, 2002, at 17:17:21
In reply to Re: More scattered Thoughts about Boards Bob, posted by CtrlAlt n Del on May 3, 2002, at 15:56:28
When I say not serious I'll change it to alternative because of Kid A's gems and others also..shall we tear up my threads and start again?
Think I'll now take a back seat veiw or big walk.
Helpful aren't I .....: )
Posted by Willow on May 3, 2002, at 19:26:26
In reply to Re: thoughts about 2001 » Willow, posted by wendy b. on May 3, 2002, at 14:16:02
> I hope Bob can reassign you to 2001, we need your input and insights...Input I have lots of, but regarding insight I have to beg out. Two professionals have now stated that I have no concept of personal insight.
>Just think Kazoo is shy...
There is nothing shy about that man. You are just trying to soothe my broken heart, which good girlfriends are suppose to do. Let's face it I've been dumped.
Did you manage to visit your brother and if so I hope the trip went well?!
Have I finally made it to the correct room? I feel like I've been bouncing from room to room at a house party, and finally found the one with my old chums. You know the ones who won't comment if you drink too much and start to slur a little or get all mushy. (Is that Dreamer steaming up the windows and drawing little stick men?)
Hope it's a good party!!
Whistling Willow
Posted by Willow on May 3, 2002, at 19:30:28
In reply to Re: thoughts about 2001, posted by Willow on May 3, 2002, at 19:26:26
Posted by shar on May 4, 2002, at 3:29:27
In reply to Re: thoughts about 2001, posted by Willow on May 3, 2002, at 19:26:26
Willy,
don't be so quick to assume you've been dumped. I think K has taken all this recent brouhaha very seriously; that is, it's stressed him out. Probably needs quiet time to come back more balanced.Do you think we all jump to the idea that we've been dumped when there are silences or rough patches? I sure as hell do. In fact, I'm eating enough for two in a body of one, and plan to whack about eight inches off my hair. Now that is bummed.
Shar
This is the end of the thread.
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