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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Bekka H. on February 1, 2002, at 17:13:32
I'm fairly new to Psychobabble, and I do have a few complaints about it, but overall, it is so much better than any other mental health message board I've come across. Every so often, I go back to Usenet or to AOL Depression and ADD/ADHD boards, and each time I make the mistake of doing that, I am struck by the vast difference in quality between those other boards and Psychobabble. There are no standards on those other boards, and the low level of discourse is appalling. The AOL boards are "monitored," but the monitors are not trained in mental health. The Usenet boards are populated largely by bigots, chronic proscrastinators and co-dependents who seem to have little interest in overcoming their disorders, and who are threatened by and actually try to sabotage those of us who struggle valiantly to rise above our difficulties.
Thank you to Dr. Bob and to all the other PB members who make this board possible.
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 1, 2002, at 19:00:30
In reply to This board is better than any other message board , posted by Bekka H. on February 1, 2002, at 17:13:32
> The AOL boards are "monitored," but the monitors are not trained in mental health.
And do you think that makes a difference? If they "just" monitor and don't actually provide the support?
> Thank you to Dr. Bob and to all the other PB members who make this board possible.
I'm glad you put it that way. It really is a collaboration. I try to steer the site, but you all power it.
Bob
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2002, at 19:20:00
In reply to Re: This board is better, posted by Dr. Bob on February 1, 2002, at 19:00:30
> > The AOL boards are "monitored," but the monitors are not trained in mental health.
>
> And do you think that makes a difference? If they "just" monitor and don't actually provide the support?
>
Dr. Bob,
I'll respond to this in the interests of science. :)It does make a big difference. Except for the wit of your responses, I can predict with a remarkable degree of certainty exactly what you will say in any given circumstance because it is exactly what my therapist would say. They must teach you those things in mental health school.
Someone who wasn't trained in therapeutic techniques would probably intervene in a less predictable way (and I don't mean that in a bad way). And someone not trained in therapeutic techniques (and an unfortunate number who were so trained) would not respond in as deft a manner. I've actually discussed with my therapist some of your responses to situations on the board that correspond to similar situations arising in therapy and nearly identical responses he has given, and used the opportunity to find out the reasoning behind his responses.
Sorry to be so long, but you did ask.
Dinah
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 2, 2002, at 14:03:44
In reply to Re: This board is better » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on February 1, 2002, at 19:20:00
> > > The AOL boards are "monitored," but the monitors are not trained in mental health.
> >
> > And do you think that makes a difference? If they "just" monitor and don't actually provide the support?
>
> Someone who wasn't trained in therapeutic techniques would probably intervene in a less predictable way (and I don't mean that in a bad way). And someone not trained in therapeutic techniques ... would not respond in as deft a manner.Do I have this right, are you saying less predictable isn't necessarily bad?
I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but it seems like you're identifying two variables, predictability and deftness. Someone might be predictable but not so deft, or vice versa.
And a hypothesis might be that someone who went to "mental health school" :-) might be more likely to be both?
> I've actually discussed with my therapist some of your responses to situations on the board that correspond to similar situations arising in therapy and nearly identical responses he has given, and used the opportunity to find out the reasoning behind his responses.
I'm glad if I've helped, but couldn't you just ask him directly? :-)
Bob
Posted by Dinah on February 2, 2002, at 14:25:58
In reply to Re: training in therapeutic techniques, posted by Dr. Bob on February 2, 2002, at 14:03:44
> > Someone who wasn't trained in therapeutic techniques would probably intervene in a less predictable way (and I don't mean that in a bad way). And someone not trained in therapeutic techniques ... would not respond in as deft a manner.
>
> Do I have this right, are you saying less predictable isn't necessarily bad?
No, no, no. I'm saying that predictable (which sometimes has a negative connotation) is a good thing in moderating a board like this - necessary even. Sorry, didn't express myself well there.> I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but it seems like you're identifying two variables, predictability and deftness. Someone might be predictable but not so deft, or vice versa.
> And a hypothesis might be that someone who went to "mental health school" :-) might be more likely to be both?
>
Precisely. (Although I think deft is a little harder to come by.)
>
> > I've actually discussed with my therapist some of your responses to situations on the board that correspond to similar situations arising in therapy and nearly identical responses he has given, and used the opportunity to find out the reasoning behind his responses.
>
> I'm glad if I've helped, but couldn't you just ask him directly? :-)
>
Sure, but it's easier to identify when you're not emotionally involved. And easier to hear the answers too.Dinah
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 2, 2002, at 23:20:19
In reply to Re: training in therapeutic techniques » Dr. Bob, posted by Dinah on February 2, 2002, at 14:25:58
> I'm saying that predictable (which sometimes has a negative connotation) is a good thing in moderating a board like this - necessary even.
OK, that's what I thought you were getting at...
> > I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but it seems like you're identifying two variables, predictability and deftness. Someone might be predictable but not so deft, or vice versa.
> > And a hypothesis might be that someone who went to "mental health school" :-) might be more likely to be both?
> >
> Precisely...I was hoping that's what you were thinking! That's what I said in my article:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/research.html
But of course I'm biased, so it's nice to hear it from someone else, too. :-)
> > > I've actually discussed with my therapist some of your responses to situations on the board that correspond to similar situations arising in therapy and nearly identical responses he has given, and used the opportunity to find out the reasoning behind his responses.
> >
> > I'm glad if I've helped, but couldn't you just ask him directly? :-)
> >
> Sure, but it's easier to identify when you're not emotionally involved. And easier to hear the answers too.Ah, very true.
Bob
Posted by Bekka H. on February 3, 2002, at 19:06:46
In reply to Re: This board is better, posted by Dr. Bob on February 1, 2002, at 19:00:30
> > The AOL boards are "monitored," but the monitors are not trained in mental health.
>
> And do you think that makes a difference? If they "just" monitor and don't actually provide the support?
> Bob
#################################################Yes, I think it makes a huge difference. What I had in mind was something like the reasoning behind the training and analysis that psychoanalysts are required to have before they can become analysts. It is essential to "know thyself" and to understand oneself before one can be of real help to others. If we don't understand our own problems, fears, insecurities, etc, those problems can interfere with, and even exacerbate, someone else's problems. Let me give you an example. Some time ago, I met a man who is a physician. He was not my doctor. I met him socially and dated him briefly. As it turned out, he HATED female physicians, female medical students and female premedical students. Apparently, he had been jilted by two of his girlfriends when he was in medical school, and he had never worked through or gotten over being hurt and rejected. The women who rejected him were medical students and, for years, he continued to generalize his anger to ALL female physicians. Now, can you imagine this man as a psychiatrist? What if he had a female patient who was also in medical school? How could he help her? With all his unresolved hatred of those "castrating bitch" female medical students (his words), he couldn't possibly help his patient. He might even try to harm her, consciously or unconsciously.
I know that the board monitors don't engage in therapy or analysis of the message board posters, so perhaps my example is a bit extreme. The problem is, that some of the posters might try to engage others in "therapy" or "therapy by proxy" or some such thing. On the AOL boards, some of the monitors delete posts from people because they don't agree with their political views or their colorful language, but they don't delete posts that are downright cruel and potentially destructive to other members. That can be very dangerous. Mental health problems require great care and expertise, and are best left to qualified caregivers and experts.
Posted by jane d on February 4, 2002, at 14:21:40
In reply to Re: This board is better, posted by Dr. Bob on February 1, 2002, at 19:00:30
> > The AOL boards are "monitored," but the monitors are not trained in mental health.
>
> And do you think that makes a difference? If they "just" monitor and don't actually provide the support?I don't think that it does. I think your describing a separate skill that can be found in people who run business meetings well, teachers and, well, moderators. If anything, I would think that mental health training with it's emphasis on intervening would make it harder to just stand back and risk other people messing up..
It sometimes seems to me as though your credentials actually get in the way. They can encourage posters to fall into the passive patient role and assume that because your name is on the site with the magic words "MD" that it's content and value to them personally is somehow guaranteed. On the other hand, those credentials may be necessary to keep at bay the posters who would try to take over with their view of the "truth".
I'd really like to know what you think about this. Do you think your training helps you be effective here? Or that the skills you use here are the same ones you needed to be an effective psychiatrist? How does your being an MD effect the way you handle this site?
Jane
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 4, 2002, at 19:27:35
In reply to Re: This board is better » Dr. Bob, posted by jane d on February 4, 2002, at 14:21:40
> > > The AOL boards are "monitored," but the monitors are not trained in mental health.
> >
> > And do you think that makes a difference? If they "just" monitor and don't actually provide the support?
>
> I don't think that it does. I think your describing a separate skill that can be found in people who run business meetings well, teachers and, well, moderators.Fair enough. But maybe training in mental health is one way to try to develop that skill?
> If anything, I would think that mental health training with it's emphasis on intervening would make it harder to just stand back and risk other people messing up..
Hmm, I guess it depends on what school of mental health you come from. Not all of them emphasize intervening!
> I'd really like to know what you think about this. Do you think your training helps you be effective here? Or that the skills you use here are the same ones you needed to be an effective psychiatrist? How does your being an MD effect the way you handle this site?
I do think it helps. But it may be neither necessary nor sufficient. See also what Dinah said:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20011216/msgs/2815.html
Being an MD in particular? Hmm, I haven't thought about that...
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 4, 2002, at 19:50:24
In reply to Re: This board is better, posted by Bekka H. on February 3, 2002, at 19:06:46
> On the AOL boards, some of the monitors delete posts from people because they don't agree with their political views or their colorful language, but they don't delete posts that are downright cruel and potentially destructive to other members. That can be very dangerous. Mental health problems require great care and expertise, and are best left to qualified caregivers and experts.
Sorry about getting to these out of order... That's an interesting perspective, training in mental health certainly should help someone recognize what's potentially destructive. But as Jane was saying, a monitor doesn't necessarily have to be a therapist to do that...
Bob
Posted by Shar on February 5, 2002, at 1:10:11
In reply to Re: training in therapeutic techniques, posted by Dr. Bob on February 4, 2002, at 19:50:24
>a monitor doesn't necessarily have to be a therapist to do that...
You are correct, sir! However, imo, some slight MH training would be good when it came to identifying posts that were potential triggers to suicide, and things like that. I guess there could be other events or posts that a layperson might not catch as being ungood on a MH board.
I wonder if they'd also need training in the importance of detachment, not being biased and being aware of not being biased. So posts along a particular line of thought don't get deleted. I'm not talking about the obvious posts, like if someone wanted to delete all god posts; but sometimes a bias + a post can be pretty subtle. Self-awareness is what I'm thinking about.
It is a true luxury to have time and resources to spend on thinking about things like this. IE, not having to worry about literal survival issues like a lot of people in the world have to. This comment is just me waxing a bit philosophical and is not related to this thread.
Shar
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 5, 2002, at 14:16:31
In reply to Re: training in therapeutic techniques, posted by Shar on February 5, 2002, at 1:10:11
> imo, some slight MH training would be good when it came to identifying posts that were potential triggers to suicide, and things like that.
Right, I agree.
> I wonder if they'd also need training in the importance of detachment, not being biased and being aware of not being biased.
I agree there, too, and what Bekka posted:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20011216/msgs/2835.html
was also along those lines...
Bob
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