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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JahL on December 12, 2001, at 21:52:41
> PS: Do people feel it's "bad" to be redirected?No, I don't think so. After all it's vital you keep Babble focussed and relevant and redirecting non-med chat (and vice-versa with PSB) is just a part of this. I think what you are seeing is a reluctance for people to move boards. I certainly feel more comfortable on the med board and I know many feel similarly about PSB.
I'm not exactly sure how redirect works; if you are just suggesting the conversation should wind down or move over, then great. I agree. I wouldn't be so happy if you were physically placing a redirect link on PSB since if I wanted my comments posted there I would've done so myself. In doing so you would be automatically involving me in a debate I've already expressed no desire to participate in. My comments (which you've kindly brought to everyones' attn :-) ) were an answer to a person (Judy)'s Q in an obscure thread in which I thought noone would interrupt...
Maybe you jumped the gun a little on this one; I thought Judy's last post had effectively rolled things up...
Ta,
J.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 13, 2001, at 15:45:43
In reply to Re: Redirect: feelings towards psychotherapy » Dr. Bob, posted by JahL on December 12, 2001, at 21:52:41
> I'm not exactly sure how redirect works; if you are just suggesting the conversation should wind down or move over, then great. I agree.
Yes, that's what I mean to suggest.
> I wouldn't be so happy if you were physically placing a redirect link on PSB since if I wanted my comments posted there I would've done so myself. In doing so you would be automatically involving me in a debate I've already expressed no desire to participate in.
I guess I've ended up doing redirections a number of ways. I'll try to explain, but it's going to get complicated... Say a post to PB isn't really about medication. Let's call that post P.
1. If P is the start of a new thread, sometimes I just move it to PSB and delete it from PB. "Moving" it to PSB means I post to PSB myself and quote P in my post. Let's call my post Q. Q then starts a new thread on PSB.
2. If P comes along in the middle of a thread, however, I leave P there, since it does kind of "belong" to that thread, and post a redirect request. Let's call that p ost R. R goes to PB.
a. Sometimes I do also move P to PSB, as in case 1. In that case, I include in Q to a link to P, so people on PSB (who maybe never saw the thread on PB) can see how the discussion got started. I also include in R a link to Q, so people on PB can continue the discussion just by clicking on it, being taken to Q, and replying. Their post then continues the thread on PSB started by Q.
b. Sometimes, however, I don't move P. In that case, if people on PB want to continue the discussion, they can reply to P or R and redirect their reply to PSB when they preview it. Their post then starts a new thread on PSB (since in this case there's no Q).
(Sorry about the P and Q business, but I started out with words and it was even worse! :-)
Any way, in cases 1 and 2, I move P to PSB and "involve" that poster there. Is that something you'd object to? You wouldn't have to participate in any discussion there. It's just that your post, P, would be there, quoted in my post, Q.
> Maybe you jumped the gun a little o n this one; I thought Judy's last post had effectively rolled things up...
Maybe. But sometimes I've thought things were all rolled up and then they kept unrolling. Maybe because people got there later, via the archives?
Bob
Posted by JahL on December 13, 2001, at 18:53:42
In reply to Re: exactly how redirect works, posted by Dr. Bob on December 13, 2001, at 15:45:43
> > I'm not exactly sure how redirect works; if you are just suggesting the conversation should wind down or move over, then great. I agree.
>
> Yes, that's what I mean to suggest.
>
> > I wouldn't be so happy if you were physically placing a redirect link on PSB since if I wanted my comments posted there I would've done so myself. In doing so you would be automatically involving me in a debate I've already expressed no desire to participate in.
>
> I guess I've ended up doing redirections a number of ways. I'll try to explain, but it's going to get complicated...Thanks 4 the long explanation Doc, but I actually understood how redirect essentially works. If I didn't I'm not sure yr description would've helped :-)
I just wasn't sure what the *exact* procedure was because, as you say, you've redirected in a variety of ways.> Any way, in cases 1 and 2, I move P to PSB and "involve" that poster there. Is that something you'd object to?
Object's too strong a word but in this particular instance I prefer option 2 b. Essentially it was a quick interchange between 3 people who had been on that thread since the beginning. It wasn't a debate or discussion, but by redirecting it you run the risk of turning it into one. I made it clear before I posted to Judy that I don't want to debate my views and I still don't.
>You wouldn't have to participate in any discussion there.
You say that but by making my comments to an individual the basis of a discussion, you put me in a position where I am obliged to answer any responses to them.
I think yr policy should remain discretionary. If you have just a couple of established posters who know the rules but briefly get sidetracked, then it seems a bit authoritarian to automatically redirect and therefore repost their comments. To briefly sound like those I criticise, you would be in danger of disempowering posters (by removing their choice of which board they post to). In such a case far better to just say to the posters concerned, "would you like to continue this on PSB?".
I doubt anyone else much cares about this but I've been in enough acrimonious (much of the acrimony on my side admittedly) 'debates' not to want any more. The original post on that thread actually requested that there be no 'debate' as such (that actually referred to opiates but applies equally to this).
Ultimately it's no big deal tho'.
Thanks,
J.
Posted by judy1 on December 13, 2001, at 20:21:32
In reply to Re: exactly how redirect works, posted by Dr. Bob on December 13, 2001, at 15:45:43
I feel really bad about Jah's response and feel it's my fault. I just wanted to understand why he and Elizabeth felt so negative about therapy, because it and medication are so linked for me. Thank you for answering again Jah, and i didn't intend to put you in a discussion that you stated very clearly you didn't want to be in. My confusion continues with the result of my epilepsy testing- I had posted about atrophy of my hippocampus on the PB board and also testing on PSB. Where does it belong? I don't want to screw up anymore. Thanks- judy
Posted by JahL on December 13, 2001, at 20:52:45
In reply to Sorry and completely confused » Dr. Bob, posted by judy1 on December 13, 2001, at 20:21:32
> I feel really bad about Jah's response and feel it's my fault.
Hi Judy. There's nothing 2 feel bad about . You gotta stop apologising 4 everything (see yr last 2 headings)! :-) . I was more than happy to explain my views to you; I just didn't want them discussed. That wasn't going to happen on the opiate thread but if started as an entirely new thread.....
It does my acutely high stress levels no good to get involved so these days so I try not to. Besides, I lose my rag too easily.If anyone wants to be feeling bad it's the over-officious Dr B :-)
J.
Posted by judy1 on December 14, 2001, at 10:03:15
In reply to Re: completely confused » judy1, posted by JahL on December 13, 2001, at 20:52:45
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2001, at 13:09:50
In reply to Re: exactly how redirect works » Dr. Bob, posted by JahL on December 13, 2001, at 18:53:42
> I actually understood how redirect essentially works. If I didn't I'm not sure yr description would've helped :-)
I know, I know. :-)
> >You wouldn't have to participate in any discussion there.
>
> You say that but by making my comments to an individual the basis of a discussion, you put me in a position where I am obliged to answer any responses to them.I disagree. You could just let it go. And shouldn't be pressured to reply, either.
> I think yr policy should remain discretionary. If you have just a couple of established posters who know the rules but briefly get sidetracked, then it seems a bit authoritarian to automatically redirect and therefore repost their comments. To briefly sound like those I criticise, you would be in danger of disempowering posters (by removing their choice of which board they post to). In such a case far better to just say to the posters concerned, "would you like to continue this on PSB?".
OK, good point. I think of 2a as doing a little extra to help, but maybe I shouldn't assume that those involved want that "help". Which would be fine, 2b is of course easier for me.
> The original post on that thread actually requested that there be no 'debate' as such (that actually referred to opiates but applies equally to this).
>
> Ultimately it's no big deal tho'.Well, feedback is helpful to me, thanks. I'm glad it's not a big deal. If it is, remember, you're under no obligation to reply to this. :-)
Bob
Posted by JahL on December 15, 2001, at 18:54:43
In reply to Re: exactly how redirect works, posted by Dr. Bob on December 15, 2001, at 13:09:50
> > >You wouldn't have to participate in any discussion there.
> >
> > You say that but by making my comments to an individual the basis of a discussion, you put me in a position where I am obliged to answer any responses to them.
>
> I disagree. You could just let it go.Easier said than done, Doc. I'm sure you could but in my current state I find it hard and that's why I'd rather not be put in that position in the first place. My problem, but this is one way of dealing with it.
>And shouldn't be pressured to reply, either.
The pressure's all in my own head. And it doesn't go away.
> OK, good point. I think of 2a as doing a little extra to help, but maybe I shouldn't assume that those involved want that "help".Yeah, that's my point. You're probably the best judge of who's in need of 'help'. Perhaps 2b is your default action, 2a for people who are totally lost or for threads spinning out of control etc.
> I'm glad it's not a big deal. If it is, remember, you're under no obligation to reply to this. :-)
Yeah, yeah :-)
J.
PS when you gonna install a CC facility on the donations page? As a fairly successful full-ish time gambler, I would be happy to cut you a small percentage of my bigger wins. However, being a hard-nosed punter, the generosity usually wears off by the time I can get a cheque (that's *English* for 'check' :-) ) to hand (or else I've started losing by then :-( ). I don't know if it's been suggested before but you could implement a 7 day 'cooling off' period for the benefit of the more impulsively minded.
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 16, 2001, at 23:11:08
In reply to Re: redirect works? » Dr. Bob, posted by JahL on December 15, 2001, at 18:54:43
> PS when you gonna install a CC facility on the donations page?
What's slowing me down there is, I think I should incorporate first. Which means paperwork. Not my strong suit. :-(
> As a fairly successful full-ish time gambler, I would be happy to cut you a small percentage of my bigger wins. However, being a hard-nosed punter, the generosity usually wears off by the time I can get a cheque to hand or else I've started losing by then...
Hmm, impulse donating, a whole new can of worms...
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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