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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Nate on November 11, 2001, at 22:08:30
The FAQ for this site says jokes about suicide are prohibited. Is this "cyanide is a very effective treatment" post a joke or some sort of suicidal outcry? Is there some sort of double standard on this site, so some regulars can write whatever they want, regardless how it effects others?
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20011104/msgs/83651.html
The "I want to die" post was also troublesome.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20011104/msgs/83708.html
The post itself would be removed from most mental health support sites, because public discussion of suicide might tend to promote or trigger further suicidal behavior. The post was bothersome, but some of the responses are more troublesome. Infering that suicidal thoughts are stupid or telling a person expressing suicidal thoughts they are not serious can dare the person to follow through with their thoughts. The company that insures this site must have very deep pockets.
Posted by JahL on November 12, 2001, at 8:16:01
In reply to Is this okay?, posted by Nate on November 11, 2001, at 22:08:30
> The FAQ for this site says jokes about suicide are prohibited. Is this "cyanide is a very effective treatment" post a joke or some sort of suicidal outcry? Is there some sort of double standard on this site, so some regulars can write whatever they want, regardless how it effects others?
Apparently so. I'm *assuming* the 'Cyanide gag' was a clumsy, immature attempt to satirise my 'liberal' views, as set out above (and if not, then what? There's no such thing as a joke w/o a target.). Probably those of the other 2 posters concerned too. Not at all civil. However I've only been here a year so it's probably still OK to ridicule my concerns.
Even worse is worrying friends with cryptic suicidal messages and then sitting back whilst they all fret. Oooohhh, the power.
JMHO.
> The "I want to die" post was also troublesome,
I would've thought that discussion of suicide is perfectly acceptable, and relevant, here.
> but some of the responses are more troublesome. Infering that suicidal thoughts are stupid or telling a person expressing suicidal thoughts they are not serious can dare the person to follow through with their thoughts.
I agree. Any pdoc worth his salt knows that any declaration of intent to commit suicide must be taken very seriously. The *last* thing you do is call a suicidal person's bluff (tho' only one post seems to do this).
Respectfully,
J.
Posted by Shar on November 13, 2001, at 1:54:34
In reply to Is this okay?, posted by Nate on November 11, 2001, at 22:08:30
> >Is there some sort of double standard on this site, so some regulars can write whatever they want, regardless how it effects others?
No, there is no double standard allowing regulars to write whatever they want. You'll find numerous 'pleasebecivils' and time-outs applied to regulars, regularly.
Shar
Posted by Nate on November 13, 2001, at 2:18:20
In reply to No double standard » Nate, posted by Shar on November 13, 2001, at 1:54:34
> You'll find numerous 'pleasebecivils' and time-outs applied to regulars, regularly.
> SharSome people apparently are allowed to joke about suicide. The variance of the standard seems to involve how consistently some rather subjective guidelines are enforced.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 13, 2001, at 10:51:06
In reply to Re: Is this okay? » Nate, posted by JahL on November 12, 2001, at 8:16:01
> I'm *assuming* the 'Cyanide gag' was a clumsy, immature attempt to satirise my 'liberal' views...
IMO, it's hard to be sure *what* it was...
> Even worse is worrying friends with cryptic suicidal messages and then sitting back whilst they all fret.
I agree, it can be provocative...
> I would've thought that discussion of suicide is perfectly acceptable, and relevant, here.
I think so, too.
> Any pdoc worth his salt knows that any declaration of intent to commit suicide must be taken very seriously. The *last* thing you do is call a suicidal person's bluff (tho' only one post seems to do this).
I'm not sure I'd say she wasn't taken seriously or her bluff was called... And didn't it work out OK?
Bob
Posted by JahL on November 13, 2001, at 13:08:48
In reply to Re: Is this okay?, posted by Dr. Bob on November 13, 2001, at 10:51:06
> > Any pdoc worth his salt knows that any declaration of intent to commit suicide must be taken very seriously. The *last* thing you do is call a suicidal person's bluff (tho' only one post seems to do this).
>
> I'm not sure I'd say she wasn't taken seriously or her bluff was called... And didn't it work out OK?Hi Dr B.
I think it did. I wasn't directing my last comment at anyone in particular, which is why I referred specifically to *pdocs*. I was really just agreeing w/ Nate that suicide should be handled very sensitively.
I think everyone in that thread was genuinely concerned. I just wondered if the 'tough love' (you're right, bluff is perhaps too strong a word) approach is the best way forward.
However I have no doubt that the post in Q was full of good intention. So absolutely no probs w/ me.
J.
Posted by Nate on November 13, 2001, at 19:58:49
In reply to Re: Is this okay?, posted by Dr. Bob on November 13, 2001, at 10:51:06
> > I'm *assuming* the 'Cyanide gag' was a clumsy, immature attempt to satirise my 'liberal' views...
>
> IMO, it's hard to be sure *what* it was...Then, would it be okay to say a noose around the neck cures emotional pain? A shotgun blast in the face cures frustration? Slitting your wrists ends unwanted pregnacy?
Isn't there supposed to be something here about not suggesting that others hurt themselves, even in jest? Maybe it's not about what was said, but rather who said it. Is that fair to everybody who reads the site?
Posted by Dinah on November 14, 2001, at 1:08:13
In reply to Re: Is this okay?, posted by Nate on November 13, 2001, at 19:58:49
For what it's worth, it didn't occur to me to take it as a joke about suicide and certainly not as an attempt to advocate suicide. I saw it as expressing frustration at the side effects of meds, like the antidepressant ad telling how wonderful your life will be on that antidepressant but then listing all the various possible side effects.
I think different interpretations are possible and neither of the above may have been the intention of the post.
I appreciate Dr. Bob giving the poster the benefit of the doubt.
Posted by JahL on November 14, 2001, at 9:32:14
In reply to Re: Is this okay?, posted by Dinah on November 14, 2001, at 1:08:13
> For what it's worth, it didn't occur to me to take it as a joke about suicide and certainly not as an attempt to advocate suicide.
I didn't think so either.
> I saw it as expressing frustration at the side effects of meds, like the antidepressant ad telling how wonderful your life will be on that antidepressant but then listing all the various possible side effects.
It was no such thing. I can guarantee that (& Dr. B, I'm not being presumptuous; if it looks & smells like a cuss, it probably is).
> neither of the above may have been the intention of the post.
Unfortunately the chronology of the 3 threads involved tells you all you need to know. Start with the "GHB: Could anyone help me to know?" thread & then follow it to here. The cyanide post followed immediately after. It was a pop at the 'GHB [which James strongly disapproves of] is an effective treatment' posts just above. Foot-stomping IMO.
Rgds,
J.
Posted by Dinah on November 14, 2001, at 11:52:24
In reply to Re: Is this okay?, posted by JahL on November 14, 2001, at 9:32:14
Posted by JahL on November 14, 2001, at 12:05:43
In reply to Re: Is this okay?Thanks. I understand now. (nm) » JahL, posted by Dinah on November 14, 2001, at 11:52:24
In return thanks for clarifying. I have a sometimes uncontrollable temper which isn't helped by mild (non-euphoric) hypomania (which I have at present). It sounds silly but I was beginning to get really wound up. I thought it was a 'loyality to long-term poster'-type scenario.
I can relax now-until the nxt post :-)
J.
Posted by Mark H. on November 15, 2001, at 22:20:57
In reply to Re: Is this okay?Thanks. I understand now. » Dinah, posted by JahL on November 14, 2001, at 12:05:43
I've certainly been put in my place when I've stepped out of line here, both by Dr. Bob and by a few of the regulars. In the short run it sometimes doesn't feel all that great, but in the long run I appreciate both their concern and the "course correction" that it offers me.
For what it's worth, I think james' post was out of line too, and I suspect that if Dr. Bob had spotted it early on, he might have intervened. On the other hand, several "regulars" IMMEDIATELY stepped in with genuine concern for james and scorn for the tone of the post. To me, that shows that this community is working.
It's hard to think of anyone more beloved, appreciated and respected here than Cam W., whose input is constantly sought -- ask him whether he's ever been called on the carpet for being out of line here. :-) If Cam ain't immune to censure, you can be sure ain't no one gets a free pass!
With love,
Mark H.
This is the end of the thread.
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