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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Rick on June 30, 2001, at 5:29:36
It seems every time I post, my post gets archived the next morning, before anyone can read it! Yes, I'm being stupid -- I should pay attention and ensure that I post shortly AFTER an archive is created, but I never think about that until it's too late.
It's realy pretty frustrating, because I know I've spent my time composing some thoughts that will get seen by a mere fraction of readers who would have seen it had posted five days sooner or two days later, etc..
Dr. Bob, do you have any stats on the daily number of hits on the latest archive vs. the front page? Even if the difference (surprisingly) isn't great, the people most likely to read my shunted-to-archive posts are probably lurkers (aka "Psycho-Dabblers") who are less likely to respond.
Is there anything that can be done about this? Why can't you simply leave the last day or two's posts on the front page when you archive? E.g, on June 6 archive everything through June 4. The "leftover" days will then end up in the next archive, which will be called "June 5". Since your archives are identified soley by *first*-posting date included, I can't see how a change in the *end*-dates would confuse readers.
BTW, is it verboten to respond to your own quickly-hidden post to get it back on the front where there's a chance of being heard and maybe getting a response?
Thanks,
Rick
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 30, 2001, at 17:39:12
In reply to Murphy's Law for Posters (me, anyway) -- Dr. Bob, posted by Rick on June 30, 2001, at 5:29:36
> It seems every time I post, my post gets archived the next morning, before anyone can read it!
Sorry about that!
> the people most likely to read my shunted-to-archive posts are probably lurkers (aka "Psycho-Dabblers") who are less likely to respond.
Well, I don't know, why would you assume that?
> Is there anything that can be done about this? Why can't you simply leave the last day or two's posts on the front page when you archive?
This has come up before, so I should probably do it, but FYI it's not a simple change at all. Since right now nothing happens to the old page and a blank page is just made the new page.
The new way, the most recent posts would need to be removed from the old page and added to the new page. Plus the files would need to be moved from the old directory to the new one. Plus links to them would need to be revised. Plus who knows what else... So it's on my list now, but don't hold your breath! :-)
> BTW, is it verboten to respond to your own quickly-hidden post to get it back on the front where there's a chance of being heard and maybe getting a response?
Thanks for asking. It's frowned upon, whether the original post was the previous day or even longer ago, and sometimes I've deleted posts like that. (But if you just post it again to start a new thread, I might not notice. :-)
Bob
Posted by Rick on July 1, 2001, at 1:31:09
In reply to Re: post gets archived the next morning, posted by Dr. Bob on June 30, 2001, at 17:39:12
Thanks for the response. I had a feeling there might be some tricky technical issues I was overlooking.
> > the people most likely to read my shunted-to-archive posts are probably lurkers (aka "Psycho-Dabblers") who are less likely to respond.
>
> Well, I don't know, why would you assume that?
>"Lurkers" wasn't really the right word. I was referring more to first-time or sporadic users. They're the folks who are more likely to be "looking around" and browsing the archives, don't you think? Conversely, A more-frequent reader/contributor might feel they haven't missed anything in say, 24 hours when in fact they have.
"Out of sight, out of mind" still applies when the only visual enticement to click isn't any sexier than "01 June 18" at the bottom of a laundry list of archive start-dates. And if someone sees a homepage already brimming with interesting topics, they're more likely to dive into those and overlook -- or have little time left to spend with -- the archives.How about implementing an interim fix which simply draws attention to the last archive. A simple approach could be to set the latest archive's link apart form the rest (i.e., lower down and maybe bigger font); give it start AND end dates; and add a large-font note, with an arrow pointing to that link, saying something like "Regular Readers remember to check here for late posts from last period." And change "Current Period" to "Current Period -- Starting with posts from 6/25/01." Etc., etc, with wordsmithing.
>(But if you just post it again to start a new thread, I might not notice. :-)
It's really nice that you're so open and honest with me. A grievous error in judgment, but nice. ;-)
Posted by JahL on July 1, 2001, at 8:15:54
In reply to Murphy's Law for Posters (me, anyway) -- Dr. Bob, posted by Rick on June 30, 2001, at 5:29:36
> It seems every time I post, my post gets archived the next morning, before anyone can read it!
> Is there anything that can be done about this? Why can't you simply leave the last day or two's posts on the front page when you archive? E.g, on June 6 archive everything through June 4. The "leftover" days will then end up in the next archive, which will be called "June 5". Since your archives are identified soley by *first*-posting date included, I can't see how a change in the *end*-dates would confuse readers.
Excellent idea. It's long occurred to me that it's almost not worth posting near the end of the page.
It's also occurred to me that "NEW" (ie unread) posts do not appear as such once archived, making it v. difficult to identify the sort of posts Rick's referring to. Would this be as difficult to rectify, Dr. B?
J
Posted by Lorraine on July 1, 2001, at 11:35:40
In reply to Re: post gets archived the next morning, posted by Dr. Bob on June 30, 2001, at 17:39:12
> > BTW, is it verboten to respond to your own quickly-hidden post to get it back on the front where there's a chance of being heard and maybe getting a response?
>
> Thanks for asking. It's frowned upon, whether the original post was the previous day or even longer ago, and sometimes I've deleted posts like that. (But if you just post it again to start a new thread, I might not notice. :-)****************
Bob, I think that given the fact that the problem of archiving recent posts is unlikely to be remedied quickly, you might consider a general "loosening" of the no reposting rule for those whose recent posts were archived. I've found this frustrating as well.
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 1, 2001, at 20:45:51
In reply to Re: post gets archived the next morning » Dr. Bob, posted by Lorraine on July 1, 2001, at 11:35:40
> > > the people most likely to read my shunted-to-archive posts are probably lurkers (aka "Psycho-Dabblers") who are less likely to respond.
> >
> > Well, I don't know, why would you assume that?
>
> I was referring more to first-time or sporadic users. They're the folks who are more likely to be "looking around" and browsing the archives, don't you think? Conversely, A more-frequent reader/contributor might feel they haven't missed anything in say, 24 hours when in fact they have.OTOH, regulars are more likely to realize that they have in fact missed something and go back to look...
----
> It's also occurred to me that "NEW" (ie unread) posts do not appear as such once archived, making it v. difficult to identify the sort of posts Rick's referring to. Would this be as difficult to rectify, Dr. B?
This is something I run into myself every time, you know... I think there are two ways to deal with this, see:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20010315/msgs/1308.html
----
> Bob, I think that given the fact that the problem of archiving recent posts is unlikely to be remedied quickly, you might consider a general "loosening" of the no reposting rule for those whose recent posts were archived. I've found this frustrating as well.
OK, fair enough, consider it loosened. :-)
Bob
Posted by AKC on July 6, 2001, at 7:19:48
In reply to Re: post gets archived the next morning, posted by Dr. Bob on July 1, 2001, at 20:45:51
I know that there are highly technical reasons why things are as they are, but having just typed in a really cool, but long, quote from a book, and then have it archived, I do feel Rick's Murphy's Law for Posters pain!
Posted by Willow on July 6, 2001, at 21:55:29
In reply to Now I feel his pain, posted by AKC on July 6, 2001, at 7:19:48
AKC
I'll fix it!Whispering Willow
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2001, at 12:34:58
In reply to Re: post gets archived the next morning, posted by Dr. Bob on June 30, 2001, at 17:39:12
> > It seems every time I post, my post gets archived the next morning, before anyone can read it!
>
> > Is there anything that can be done about this? Why can't you simply leave the last day or two's posts on the front page when you archive?
>
> This has come up before, so I should probably do it, but FYI it's not a simple change at all. Since right now nothing happens to the old page and a blank page is just made the new page.
>
> The new way, the most recent posts would need to be removed from the old page and added to the new page. Plus the files would need to be moved from the old directory to the new one. Plus links to them would need to be revised. Plus who knows what else... So it's on my list now, but don't hold your breath! :-)Did anybody notice how PSB just got archived? :-)
With graphics it's standard, but the web server can also incorporate text from other sources besides a given HTML file. It saved me a ton of space recently to consolidate HTML that was repeated all the time this way.
And now the most recent posts from the old page are added to the new page until the new page gets going. It's just links, and just temporary, so no files need to be moved.
If you're interested, take a look at http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social and http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20010915 and see how, at least for now, the former includes some old posts the latter doesn't.
Bob
Posted by akc on September 15, 2001, at 13:40:30
In reply to Re: post gets archived the next morning, posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2001, at 12:34:58
> Did anybody notice how PSB just got archived? :-)I definitely noticed!! Hurray. It made it seem to flow from the old posts to the new -- it was not jarring in the least. I deleted all the techno-mumbo-jumbo you included on how you are doing this, because I don't understand it, myself. But I am so glad you figured it out. Thanks so much. I really appreciate it.
Now, if you could read my mind, figure out which people on the board irritate me, and make their posts vanish before they appear, I would think you are deserving of sainthood. :-)
In all seriousness, thanks for figuring this out.
akc
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2001, at 19:46:32
In reply to Re: post gets archived the next morning » Dr. Bob, posted by akc on September 15, 2001, at 13:40:30
> Now, if you could read my mind, figure out which people on the board irritate me, and make their posts vanish before they appear...
There are forums that let you say you want to "ignore" so-and-so, and then they don't even show you their posts...
IMO, however, there's something to be said for being challenged by other points of view. But only if those other perspectives are presented in a civil way...
Bob
Posted by Rick on September 15, 2001, at 23:30:44
In reply to Re: post gets archived the next morning, posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2001, at 12:34:58
>And now the most recent posts from the old page are added to the new page until the new page gets going.
While noting the merits of the suggestion, you told me, "don't hold your breath" when I first suggested this change at the beginning of the thread.
When someone makes that comment, it usually means, "maybe in a year or two, if ever."
So I'm delighted to see it happen,and in less than three months!
I and other Psycho-Babblers (well, akc at minimum) thank you for this most-welcome enhancement!
Rick
Posted by akc on September 15, 2001, at 23:55:37
In reply to Re: read my mind, posted by Dr. Bob on September 15, 2001, at 19:46:32
> > Now, if you could read my mind, figure out which people on the board irritate me, and make their posts vanish before they appear...
>
> There are forums that let you say you want to "ignore" so-and-so, and then they don't even show you their posts...
>
> IMO, however, there's something to be said for being challenged by other points of view. But only if those other perspectives are presented in a civil way...
>
> BobAs frustrated as I might get with people at times, I actually really wouldn't want it any other way. If I only had people that thought the way I do, then I would not get challenged, stretched as a human. I needed to add my sarcasm disclaimer -- I hope you know that I only half meant for that "reality." I should have known that someone would have a solution where you could screen out any person that makes you uncomfortable. Like many in our country would like to do right now -- but you lose so much in that process. I am glad that you have never chosen to add such a feature, and no matter how the masses may clammer for it, I hope you never do.
akc
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