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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Kingfish on August 1, 2001, at 20:41:38
I don't know if it is appropriate for me to bring this to the board, but it seems that the same poster is posting under two names - "gldngodes" (I may not have that exactly right) and "Else". Both have mentioned losing their babies due to Effexor. And both have the same way of instigating arguments, very decisively and flamboyantly.
I know that probably nothing can be done, and probably nothing should be done, but it rings true to "ItsJustMe" and the baiting is tiresome.
Just had to get it off my chest.
- K.
Posted by stjames on August 1, 2001, at 23:57:39
In reply to Someone posting under two names-baiting others?, posted by Kingfish on August 1, 2001, at 20:41:38
I can't comment on if these 2 are the same person.
I try to tune out people who incite others. I call them "ankle biters". They are like small yappy dogs with nothing better to do. Most get ignored but some need a kick in the teeth to get them to stop.I find statements like "I lost my baby due to Effexor" inflamitory. The truth is no one knows
what effect Effexor has on the unborn nor is there a test to prove why anyone lost a baby.james
Posted by Mitchell on August 2, 2001, at 2:14:13
In reply to Re: Someone posting under two names-baiting others?, posted by stjames on August 1, 2001, at 23:57:39
> nor is there a test to prove why anyone lost a baby.
Pathologists employ an extensive array of tests to determine causes of fetal deaths.
Posted by stjames on August 2, 2001, at 10:20:35
In reply to Re: pathology, posted by Mitchell on August 2, 2001, at 2:14:13
>
> > nor is there a test to prove why anyone lost a baby.
>
>
> Pathologists employ an extensive array of tests to determine causes of fetal deaths.But there is not one for Effexor
Posted by Wendy B. on August 2, 2001, at 11:00:27
In reply to Someone posting under two names-baiting others?, posted by Kingfish on August 1, 2001, at 20:41:38
Hello,
However, to get back to Kingfish's original question - (not if there is a test for pathologists to use for effexor) -
I feel very very strongly about this, too. I think it's hard for Dr. Bob to determine if they are indeed the same poster. Perhaps either or both of them should tell us, if it's true. In any case, I try to ignore them, as James says...
However, it does make the overall "tone" of the bulletin board quite negative lately. I worry that new people looking at the Board for help and information will be totally turned off! It's like we're hanging out our dirty laundry, so to speak.
I feel that I can say for Dr. Bob and many others when I say that a positive answer, and a helpful attitude, go a VERY long way to making the atmosphere a good one. Support is support, ranting is not, and neither is baiting or name-calling, nor are intemperate demands for research to back up an opinion. I wish these posters would look for the people or the situations that are *really* making them upset, rather than venting or getting angry with the good people who post on PsychoBabble.
'Nuff said.
And with all respect to everyone,
Wendy
> I don't know if it is appropriate for me to bring this to the board, but it seems that the same poster is posting under two names - "gldngodes" (I may not have that exactly right) and "Else". Both have mentioned losing their babies due to Effexor. And both have the same way of instigating arguments, very decisively and flamboyantly.
>
> I know that probably nothing can be done, and probably nothing should be done, but it rings true to "ItsJustMe" and the baiting is tiresome.
>
> Just had to get it off my chest.
>
> - K.
Posted by Kingfish on August 2, 2001, at 11:15:56
In reply to Re: Someone posting under two names-baiting others? » Kingfish, posted by Wendy B. on August 2, 2001, at 11:00:27
> Thanks - glad you noticed it, too...
Posted by Mitchell on August 2, 2001, at 22:43:39
In reply to Re: pathology, posted by stjames on August 2, 2001, at 10:20:35
> > > nor is there a test to prove why anyone lost a baby.
> > Pathologists employ an extensive array of tests to determine causes of fetal deaths.
> But there is not one for Effexor
There is a serum test for venlaxafine. High performance liquid chromatography can be used to determine serum levels of venlafaxine (Effexor). The test is available through numerous pathology laboratories.
There might not have been any prenatal deaths medically attributed to venlaxafine.
Of 14 reported adult overdoses of venlafazine, none has been reported as fatal, according to Dr. Ivan Goldberg's venlafaxine FAQ, posted elsewhere on this site and elsewhere on the Net.
Dr. Goldberg also reports that "There is no data to establish the safety of venlafaxine for the fetus or nursing infant."
In "Psychotropic medications in pregnant women: treatment dilemmas " (1998) Marie-Paule V. Austin and Philip B. Mitchell conclude that: "The lack of data on the newer antidepressants (moclobemide, venlafaxine, nefazodone) probably reflects their more recent entries onto the market."
In "A Review of pregnancy outcome following exposure to newer antidepressants" (August 1995), Helen E. Swaby, Pharm.D. reported that:
"In rat animal studies of venlaxafine at 10 times (mg/kg basis) the maximum human daily dose, there was a decrease in pup weight, an increase in stillborn pups, and an increase in pup deaths during the first 5 days of lactation. It again is cautioned that animal reproductive studies are not predictive of human response."Although a negative pregnancy test was required prior to enrollment in clinical trials, fourteen pregnancies were reported among 1239 venlafaxine-treated women. According to data on file from Wyeth-Ayerst laboratories, there were five full-term births in the venlafaxine group with normal outcomes. Fetal exposure to venlafaxine in the five pregnancies occurred in the first trimester. One ectopic pregnancy was reported in a woman with a history of two spontaneous abortions. Three spontaneous abortions were reported in total, one patient was lost to follow-up and the remaining women terminated their pregnancies via elective abortions. Wyeth-Ayerst also states they have received rare spontaneous reports of congenital anomalies (including craniofacial abnormalities) which coincide with the use of venlafaxine during the first trimester of pregnancy."
http://www.pharmacy.umaryland.edu/~umdi/ssripreg.htmI do not intend to comment on the safety of venlaxafine use by pregnant women, but only to demonstrate that the question is of scientific interest.
Skepticism about a claim that venlaxafine caused a fetal death is probably appropriate, for the purpose of scientific reasoning.
On the other hand, a woman's perception that the drug played a role in the death of her fetus can be an important consideration, for that woman and for her choice of a treatment regimen. If, at the time of a miscarriage, a woman reported suspicions related to venlaxafine use, the occasion might also suggest an opportunity to preserve fetal remains for testing.
Whether it is helpful in this instance to speculate about a woman's claims that she lost a fetus, and that venlaxafine caused the miscarriage, is another matter about which I do not care to speculate.
Posted by stjames on August 2, 2001, at 23:27:24
In reply to Re: pathology, posted by Mitchell on August 2, 2001, at 22:43:39
> > > > nor is there a test to prove why anyone lost a baby.
>
> > > Pathologists employ an extensive array of tests to determine causes of fetal deaths.
>
> > But there is not one for Effexor
>
> There is a serum test for venlaxafine. High performance liquid chromatography can be used to determine serum levels of venlafaxine (Effexor). The test is available through numerous pathology laboratories.James here.....
Correct, gas cromat can test for everything, provided the molecular chemistry is known . What
I was saying is there is no test to prove Effexor caused a miscarrage given that there is little
data on AD's and pregancy. So it does little good to prove Effexor is present if we do not know what effect it will have on the unborn. I feel that absolute statements like this, that are not supported by fact, tend to scare people.Your data seems to support my feelings that the can neither prove or disprove this issue. It seems we agree on this issue.
james
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 3, 2001, at 0:08:31
In reply to Re: pathology, posted by stjames on August 2, 2001, at 23:27:24
> Correct, gas cromat can test for everything, provided the molecular chemistry is known ...
Could the discussion of testing be redirected to (the original) Psycho-Babble? Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Else on August 4, 2001, at 16:13:27
In reply to Re: Someone posting under two names-baiting others? » Wendy B., posted by Kingfish on August 2, 2001, at 11:15:56
> > Thanks - glad you noticed it, too...
I am not the same person as this b***h. Thank you.
This is the end of the thread.
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