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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 98 to 122 of 129. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 1, 2001, at 16:33:40
In reply to Re: Credit cards - privacy concerns » Dr. Bob, posted by ShelliR on March 31, 2001, at 15:06:33
> WAIT A SECOND.... what is this about temporary memberships for a period of time? This is sounding more like you must eventually be a member. That is not in keeping with a pledge drive. If you don't pledge on public radio, you can still listen, participate; it is up to you and your conscience.
It's also up to how successful the pledge drive is...
> When I suggested a pledge drive, I had in mind that all donations should be voluntary, not that psychobabble would now start to charge a mandatory membership fee.
I know, this is something separate, which I've been thinking about for a while. It's never been a popular idea, which I guess I understand, but I think I can make it palatable. Although I might need to hire a PR firm...
> That would upset me a lot because I think the entire flow of your website would change, be more limited, turn away people who by now have gotten used to full participation on the internet without fees. We do pay (most of us) to get our connection to the internet, but I have never been forced to pay for any services. What happens if you are censored? Do you get back your membership fee? What if someone leaves for a few months and then comes back? Who wants to keep track of all that minutia?
It would be a change, and some people might be turned away, yes. No one would be *forced* to pay anything, of course...
Probably if people were blocked, they wouldn't get a refund. It would be an extra incentive to be civil. One of the reasons to do it, BTW, is to make it easier for me to *keep* disruptive people blocked.
The server would keep track of everything, it's good at that. :-)
> Also right now, Dr. Bob, you have a lot of power on the board, which is fine with me. But it I had to pay for membership, it might not be fine with me.
Can you say more about that?
> Gosh, if this is turning into forced payment, then I'm sorry I mentioned a pledge drive.
Again, this goes back a long time, it wouldn't be your fault.
--------
> I thought the impracticalities & drawbacks of a membership system were covered a while ago...(eg what incentive would say, a CamW have to enrol?)
Good question. What incentives could there be? :-)
Bob
Posted by ShelliR on April 1, 2001, at 17:57:51
In reply to Re: membership fee idea, posted by Dr. Bob on April 1, 2001, at 16:33:40
Dr. Bob,
The pledge drive could be really easy to put into place fast. It is at the least a temporary way to bring more money in.
Now that you're rethinking the whole membership fee thing again, I can see the time just goin' by again and no money coming in for a long time.
Why start vacillating again now? Why not just go for the pledge drive and debate the manadatory membership later, so at least one thing concerning finances gets done?
Personally, if you make this a paid site, I think you will be very disappointed at the outcome and truely regret it. You will need to explain why this board, out of all the hundreds of free boards, requires payment. There are boards with paid staff psychologists and psychiatrists answering questions, and they don't even require money. As far as I tell, you are the only one who thinks this would be a good idea. (And truely, I'm not being facetitious here, I "hear" that people are willing to pay a donation, or help you work to find a sponsor or grant, but don't want a membership fee for a myriad of reasons.) It might be worthwhile to really listen. You've got a lot of bright people participating on this board.
But that decision can still be made later. Hey, it's your board. But why not see what a pledge drive twice a year brings in and continue to look for a sponsor.
ShelliR
p.s., if you're truely headed towards a membership fee requirement, then I don't want to put any more energy into ideas to bring in money. It would just be a waste of time. (Again, not meant to be disrespectful, but it's frustrating to see people try to help think of ways to bring in money and have you return again to paid membership again. What is the point of brain storming if that is where you're going to end up anyway?)
Well, yeah, I guess I'm a bit annoyed that we're backtracking again.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 2, 2001, at 2:56:01
In reply to Re: membership fee idea » Dr. Bob, posted by ShelliR on April 1, 2001, at 17:57:51
> The pledge drive could be really easy to put into place fast.
Not so so easy if it's by credit card. Or were you thinking checks?
> if you're truely headed towards a membership fee requirement, then I don't want to put any more energy into ideas to bring in money. It would just be a waste of time.
>
> Well, yeah, I guess I'm a bit annoyed that we're backtracking again.I do appreciate your help with this, sorry if I don't seem responsive. Think of it not as backtracking, but just as keeping that door open. We can pursue more than one option at a time, can't we?
> Personally, if you make this a paid site, I think you will be very disappointed at the outcome and truely regret it.
> It might be worthwhile to really listen. You've got a lot of bright people participating on this board.
I know, it might be a big mistake. But how about if we discuss whether or not to cross that bridge if we come to it? Thanks,
Bob
Posted by ShelliR on April 2, 2001, at 9:21:40
In reply to Re: membership fee idea, posted by Dr. Bob on April 2, 2001, at 2:56:01
We can pursue more than one option at a time, can't we?Absolutely.
It's just that the membership idea came up again while talking about a pledge drive, so it seemed to me (and others) that you were connecting the two. I do think you cannot do a pledge drive and have mandatory membership at the same time. But yes, of course you can do a pledge drive now and continue to think about membership dues.
I think checks could work for a pledge drive; I think credit cards would be better. How long would it take to put into place? ShelliR
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 3, 2001, at 1:37:31
In reply to Re: membership fee idea » Dr. Bob, posted by ShelliR on April 2, 2001, at 9:21:40
> It's just that the membership idea came up again while talking about a pledge drive, so it seemed to me (and others) that you were connecting the two.
I don't think I was the one who brought it up, I think I just responded to something...
> I think checks could work for a pledge drive; I think credit cards would be better. How long would it take to put into place?
I think the web page side of things is a lot easier than it used to be. But maybe I should open a separate bank account for this?
The main thing is, I have to do my taxes first. :-)
Bob
PS: BTW, I think I figured out a way to work a pledge drive into the site. :-)
Posted by NikkiT2 on April 3, 2001, at 20:37:52
In reply to Re: membership fee idea, posted by Dr. Bob on April 3, 2001, at 1:37:31
Woah....
As part of my illness I ahve run up HUGe debts, and as such have no way I could pay you, other than slowly by some sort of bankers draft or something... I have no visa, nothing.
*sobs* I'd be incredibly hurt to be exluded from chatting here simply because of this.
Nikki
Posted by Cam W. on April 4, 2001, at 8:47:30
In reply to Re: membership fee idea, posted by Dr. Bob on April 3, 2001, at 1:37:31
Dr.Bob - I haven't been following this thread very much, but have you considered drug company money. To be fair, you could offer all drug companies an option of participating with links to their sites (ie for monographs, drug information, etc) and their sites have mutual links back to PB.
To fund a site like this would be a drop in the bucket to any drug company. To cover a year's operating costs would cost less than one conference. The participating drug company links could be placed at the bottom of each page.
In return, you could allow access (which they really already have) to post marketing information on their drug &/or competitors' drugs. Almost all of the information on this site is balanced, eventually and it would give their marketing boys a chance to use the info to tailor the marketing of their product (ie Wyeth-Ayerst could fashion an ad campaign to educate doctors about how to handle &/or prevent Effexor withdrawl symptoms).
Also, how much would membership cost. I do think that a membership fee may chase me away. With all the expenses I have been incurring lately (and the awful exchange on the Canadian dollar) I can barely "pay" attention, let alone pay to give information (passionate or otherwise)
:^)- Cam
Posted by willow on April 4, 2001, at 21:46:36
In reply to Drug Company Money? » Dr. Bob, posted by Cam W. on April 4, 2001, at 8:47:30
Cam
I had mentioned something similar earlier and it got exed because of "conflict of interest" I believe. I didn't agree with the reasoning considering all the advertising that we get through the television and print ads already. Your way of presenting it with the links is a better idea though so perhaps it'll get more positive feedback.
I do believe this site gives good feedback to the general public. I remember yourself answering questions I had regards to my father when his doctors decided to change his medication. You had eased our distress and gave us a second opinion. I can remember my dad reading your posts over my shoulder and he actually followed your advice though it took him a little time. (He quit his Maximum Ice habit. : )
Keep posting, and don't take any of the emotional posts to heart. You are helping many!!
Willow
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2001, at 23:21:11
In reply to Re: membership fee idea » Dr. Bob, posted by NikkiT2 on April 3, 2001, at 20:37:52
> As part of my illness I ahve run up HUGe debts, and as such have no way I could pay you
> *sobs* I'd be incredibly hurt to be exluded from chatting here simply because of this.
If there were -- hypothetically -- some sort of fee, about what do you think would be reasonable? Or are "reasonable" and "fee" totally contradictory?
Bob
Posted by ShelliR on April 5, 2001, at 5:40:32
In reply to Re: no way to pay, posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2001, at 23:21:11
> Or are "reasonable" and "fee" totally contradictory?
>
> BobI think for me that's it. And it has less to do specifically with the amount than the principle. Part of it is how I feel about the internet in general, that it should be free. The other part has to do with giving rather than receiving. Most of the people on the board who have been here for a while definitely give more than they ask for. Of course this is true for Cam and Sunnely, but you'll find it's also true for lots of others, just that the giving may be more supportive than informational. Why should one pay a fee to offer help to others? (Now a donation is different. A donation implies support for something we may find useful to humanity in general.) shelli
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 7, 2001, at 11:42:45
In reply to Re: advertising, posted by Dr. Bob on March 22, 2001, at 2:53:39
> > I found a good article on Affilate Marketing for Non-Profits. http://www.clickz.com/article/cz.3061.html
> > This might be a viable approach. You could use igive and some of the other affilation programs. This does not seem out of line with what you are trying to do here in terms of tone.
>
> > > Of the giving malls, iGive.com is perhaps the best known. Started in 1997, iGive.com enables consumers to shop from about 240 merchants while directing from 0.4 percent to 12 percent of every purchase to more than 13,000 causes. Most of the merchants are affiliate marketing stalwarts, from Art.com and Amazon.com to Zones.com and Zany Brainy. Since its inception, iGive.com reports raising just more than $800,000 for charities, of which $310,032.69 came in 2000.
>
> OK, let's give iGive a try.I did give it a try and got some new sunglasses from Fossil. I suppose it takes some time to be credited with the percentage. Any guesses as to how many other "supporters" have signed up with them?
Bob
Posted by NikkiT2 on April 7, 2001, at 12:09:19
In reply to Re: no way to pay, posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2001, at 23:21:11
Its the not the amount, but the fact I would NOT be able to pay!!! Simply no means available to me!!
Oh well.. :o( Good idea to get rid of the the old supporters and other people who don't have credit cards etc!!
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 8, 2001, at 3:16:01
In reply to Re: no way to pay » Dr. Bob, posted by NikkiT2 on April 7, 2001, at 12:09:19
> Its the not the amount, but the fact I would NOT be able to pay!!! Simply no means available to me!!
Oh, I see, no credit card, hmm...
> Good idea to get rid of the the old supporters and other people who don't have credit cards etc!!
Of course the idea isn't to get rid of people!!
Bob
Posted by dougb on April 15, 2001, at 12:16:41
In reply to Re: no way to pay, posted by Dr. Bob on April 4, 2001, at 23:21:11
> If there were -- hypothetically -- some sort of fee, about what do you think would be reasonable? Or are "reasonable" and "fee" totally contradictory?
I have noticed that some sites, providing a valuable public
service such as this one, reguest that everbody send in $1.00.At first blush, this may seem like a dumb idea, but when a site is getting a million page hits a month, there is scope for significant reimbursement of costs,
One site even uses pay-pal for the convenience factor.
DCB
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 15, 2001, at 15:05:54
In reply to Re: no way to pay, posted by dougb on April 15, 2001, at 12:16:41
> I have noticed that some sites, providing a valuable public
> service such as this one, reguest that everbody send in $1.00.How often? And can you give me an example?
> when a site is getting a million page hits a month, there is scope for significant reimbursement of costs
A million hits isn't a million *users*, of course...
Bob
Posted by Lorraine on April 16, 2001, at 12:55:24
In reply to Re: no way to pay, posted by Dr. Bob on April 15, 2001, at 15:05:54
> A million hits isn't a million *users*, of course...
>
Do you know how many users you have?
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 17, 2001, at 0:01:10
In reply to Re: no way to pay, posted by Lorraine on April 16, 2001, at 12:55:24
> Do you know how many users you have?
That depends on how you count. :-)
Readers I don't think there's no good way to keep track of. Posters I have more of a handle on, so to speak:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/stats
Bob
Posted by Lorraine on April 17, 2001, at 21:13:58
In reply to Re: how many users, posted by Dr. Bob on April 17, 2001, at 0:01:10
Cool, info. How do you calculate posters? Is this within the month, year, inception?
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 18, 2001, at 0:25:43
In reply to Re: how many users, posted by Lorraine on April 17, 2001, at 21:13:58
> Cool, info. How do you calculate posters? Is this within the month, year, inception?
Inception (of the current version of the registration system).
Bob
Posted by dougb on April 18, 2001, at 12:57:27
In reply to Re: no way to pay, posted by Dr. Bob on April 15, 2001, at 15:05:54
> > I have noticed that some sites, providing a valuable public
> > service such as this one, reguest that everbody send in $1.00.
>
> How often? And can you give me an example?
---Have run across several, but this one recently (that's why i was able to find it again):
http://www.topqualityfreeware.com/index.html>
> > when a site is getting a million page hits a month, there is scope for significant reimbursement of costs
>
> A million hits isn't a million *users*, of course...
Certainly, still this number of visits/activity is nothing to sneeze-at.Your site also has something every web-master wants: sense of community and return visits.
Regards
Doug B
Posted by dougb on April 18, 2001, at 13:27:37
In reply to Re: no way to pay » Dr. Bob, posted by NikkiT2 on April 7, 2001, at 12:09:19
> Its the not the amount, but the fact I would NOT be able to pay!!! Simply no means available to me!!
Not even $1 or 2 once in a while? What we have here is a unique service that all must receive benefit from or would not return.
> Oh well.. :o( Good idea to get rid of the the old supporters and other people who don't have credit cards etc!!
--- don't recall reading that anyone would be denied access (other than through lack of respect for other members)Let us not leave sight of the service and sacrifice that allows this site to function to date, it should be obvious one of us here is contributing greatly of his time in what must be a very busy schedule.
We should be happy to contribute in any way possible.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 21, 2001, at 0:28:38
In reply to Re: no way to pay » Dr. Bob, posted by dougb on April 18, 2001, at 12:57:27
> > > I have noticed that some sites, providing a valuable public
> > > service such as this one, reguest that everbody send in $1.00.> http://www.topqualityfreeware.com/index.html
Well:
> So we're asking you, our browsers, to voluntary support the site. One Dollar from you could make all the difference.
That's not exactly saying $1 is all it takes...
> Your site also has something every web-master wants: sense of community and return visits.
I don't mean to sneeze at that, but they've also been known to think about the bottom line...
Bob
Posted by pandora on April 21, 2001, at 2:16:00
In reply to Re: no way to pay, posted by Dr. Bob on April 21, 2001, at 0:28:38
Dr. Bob,
Assuming you plan to continue to use these sites (and the posts contained on them) for research purposes, wouldn't introducing a membership fee at this point introduce a major confounding variable? (or would it be a threat to validity? I've been out of school too long!) It would be nearly impossible to compare results from before and after the fee was introduced (aside from tracking specific posters who participated both before and after) and it would limit your population more than it already is (i.e. from "people who post on internet websites" to "people who are willing to pay to post")Just a thought.
Erin
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 21, 2001, at 17:33:34
In reply to Re: no way to pay » Dr. Bob, posted by pandora on April 21, 2001, at 2:16:00
> Assuming you plan to continue to use these sites (and the posts contained on them) for research purposes, wouldn't introducing a membership fee at this point introduce a major confounding variable?
It would. I guess that's what the "discussion" section's for. :-)
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 21, 2001, at 17:35:02
In reply to Re: confounding variable, posted by Dr. Bob on April 21, 2001, at 17:33:34
> > Assuming you plan to continue to use these sites (and the posts contained on them) for research purposes, wouldn't introducing a membership fee at this point introduce a major confounding variable?
>
> It would.Like introducing the current email address requirement...
Bob
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