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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on June 28, 2023, at 15:04:50
"Acceptability, Tolerability, and Estimates of Putative Treatment Effects of Probiotics as Adjunctive Treatment in Patients With Depression: A Randomized Clinical Trial"
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37314797/
- Scott
Posted by Hugh on June 29, 2023, at 14:04:43
In reply to Probiotics and depression., posted by SLS on June 28, 2023, at 15:04:50
In the future, I think it's likely that probiotics will be a first-line treatment for depression and for many other ailments. The study of the human microbiome is only in its infancy.
Posted by SLS on June 29, 2023, at 20:55:26
In reply to Re: Probiotics and depression., posted by Hugh on June 29, 2023, at 14:04:43
> In the future, I think it's likely that probiotics will be a first-line treatment for depression and for many other ailments. The study of the human microbiome is only in its infancy.
Absolutely. That there is a gut-brain relationship is putative at this point.
- Scott
Posted by Jay2112 on July 5, 2023, at 18:43:48
In reply to Re: Probiotics and depression., posted by Hugh on June 29, 2023, at 14:04:43
> In the future, I think it's likely that probiotics will be a first-line treatment for depression and for many other ailments. The study of the human microbiome is only in its infancy.
>I went crazy after starting a course of antibiotics (despite my previous positive reaction)...I mean I thought I was losing my mind!! So, stopped them, bought a potent probiotic, and within a day was feeling much better. Maybe placebo, but it was a very authentic change in feelings. This has happened numerous times...I think we are really onto something.
Jay
Posted by SLS on July 6, 2023, at 10:49:17
In reply to Re: Probiotics and depression., posted by Jay2112 on July 5, 2023, at 18:43:48
The introduction of an antibiotic can sometimes cause what's called the Jarisch-Herxheimer Reaction or Herx for short. It occurs within a few days as the initial massive die-off of bacteria release lipoproteins that present as antigen. In Lyme Disease, detection of the antigen by the immune system can provoke an overreaction by the immune system that causes the Herx reaction.
https://www.myerowitzchiroacu.com/lyme-disease/herx-reactions/
Interestingly, consuming too much probiotic - live bacteria - can provoke a Herx reaction, too. The pathogen that is involved in the precipitation of Lyme Disease by a spirochete bacterium called, Borrelia burgdorferi. When the most common antibiotic used to treat Lyme, doxycycline, causes the initial die-off ofreaction. People generally experience a transient worsening of symptoms within 48 hours after the introduction of doxycycline, after which the symptoms recede as doxycycline treatment continues.
Does the timing of your worsenings following a pattern similar to the Herx reaction?
- Scott
Posted by Jay2112 on July 6, 2023, at 15:18:57
In reply to Re: Probiotics and depression., posted by SLS on July 6, 2023, at 10:49:17
> The introduction of an antibiotic can sometimes cause what's called the Jarisch-Herxheimer Reaction or Herx for short. It occurs within a few days as the initial massive die-off of bacteria release lipoproteins that present as antigen. In Lyme Disease, detection of the antigen by the immune system can provoke an overreaction by the immune system that causes the Herx reaction.
>
> https://www.myerowitzchiroacu.com/lyme-disease/herx-reactions/
>
> Interestingly, consuming too much probiotic - live bacteria - can provoke a Herx reaction, too. The pathogen that is involved in the precipitation of Lyme Disease by a spirochete bacterium called, Borrelia burgdorferi. When the most common antibiotic used to treat Lyme, doxycycline, causes the initial die-off ofreaction. People generally experience a transient worsening of symptoms within 48 hours after the introduction of doxycycline, after which the symptoms recede as doxycycline treatment continues.
>
> Does the timing of your worsenings following a pattern similar to the Herx reaction?
>
>
> - ScottYes, that is spot-on Scott. But, the probiotics seem to produce an almost counter-force. I ALWAYS take just a small amount of probiotic, because too much of anything is not good. Maybe that is how I get around this syndrome is by using small amounts of probiotics. In this recent situation, my infection was almost over, anyways, and the antibiotics an afterthought. I was feeling so bad, it didn't seem worth it to continue with antibiotics. It was a sinus infection. I should have started the probiotic with the antibiotic.
But, thanks for that detailed, fascinating explanation. I will keep it in mind.Jay
Posted by Alchemy on January 3, 2024, at 23:41:34
In reply to Probiotics and depression., posted by SLS on June 28, 2023, at 15:04:50
Hey Scott. Different probiotics worsen my mood. Especially the one I took that was specifically for improving your mood. And more depressed if I ate a large meal. I didnt recognize it right away, I was after going through some journals. The antibiotics lessened the depression, but gave me more anxiety.
I would do a FMT, but I feel like my experience makes it too risky to try.
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