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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Englishman006! on January 29, 2023, at 13:27:30
Hi all, just thought I would ask how long the side effects are expected to continue after coming off valium. I'm on day 19. I have been taking half a 5mg tablet a day for 2 1/2 years and I think it has worsened my depression. All I hope is that I feel consistently better soon.
Thanks in advance
Shaun
Posted by SLS on January 29, 2023, at 18:41:09
In reply to Valium, posted by Englishman006! on January 29, 2023, at 13:27:30
> Hi all, just thought I would ask how long the side effects are expected to continue after coming off valium. I'm on day 19. I have been taking half a 5mg tablet a day for 2 1/2 years and I think it has worsened my depression. All I hope is that I feel consistently better soon.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> ShaunHi, Shaun.
I don't know enough to answer your question. I found this for you:
https://www.benzoinfo.com/ashtonmanual/
You might find it useful.
- Scott
Posted by Hugh on January 29, 2023, at 19:38:33
In reply to Valium, posted by Englishman006! on January 29, 2023, at 13:27:30
I felt raw and on edge for months after getting off Valium. After taking Ativan for years for insomnia, I developed tolerance and withdrawal. I tapered Ativan for two months and then did a crossover to Valium for two months. The Valium taper was far smoother than the Ativan taper.
You might recover more quickly than I did. Scott's Ashton Manual suggestion is a good one.
These supplements might help you:
Posted by Englishman006! on January 30, 2023, at 10:28:20
In reply to Re: Valium » Englishman006!, posted by SLS on January 29, 2023, at 18:41:09
Thank you to both Scott and Hugh. That is a relief! :)
Posted by Hugh on January 30, 2023, at 10:33:27
In reply to Re: Valium, posted by Hugh on January 29, 2023, at 19:38:33
A supplement that might help with benzo withdrawal is the probiotic L. plantarum. It's a high GABA producer. It's thought that elevated proline levels can worsen depression, and L. plantarum converts proline into GABA.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413122001280
https://www.swansonvitamins.com/q?kw=l.%20plantarum
Posted by Christ_empowered on January 30, 2023, at 11:02:19
In reply to Re: Valium, posted by Hugh on January 30, 2023, at 10:33:27
hi on the one hand, you were on a relatively low dose. that's good in terms of avoiding a miserable taper. also, I'm glad you were prescribed Valium. here, it's usually one of the 3 : xanax, ativan, klonopin. and the tapers are miserable, and the doctors are slack. -fun-
The Orthomolecular people recommend vitamins for everyone (of course), and they recommend high dose B3 (niacin or niacinamide..think 1,500mgs to 3,000 mgs in divided doses), plus a couple of high potency b-complex tabs, and vitamin C (at least as much C as whatever form of B3 one prefers) for those with psych issues -at all- and definitely for those tapering sedatives.
The B3 at high doses boosts tryptophan levels, which seems to help the body produce more serotonin. this has a calming, mellowing effect over time, sans the adverse effects of SSRI drugs. A more immediate effect is GABA activation, so its sort of like taking a sedative that is also a vitamin and antioxidant, etc. Some experts in the "alternative" field report that long term benzodiazepine-treated people are able to taper more quickly, with fewer adverse effects, by going for a Hoffer-style protocol.
GABA supplements are helpful for many people, also. Passion flower, valerian, taurine at sufficient doses...
options, options. I hope things go well for you.
Posted by Englishman006! on February 3, 2023, at 6:38:56
In reply to Re: Valium, posted by Christ_empowered on January 30, 2023, at 11:02:19
> hi on the one hand, you were on a relatively low dose. that's good in terms of avoiding a miserable taper. also, I'm glad you were prescribed Valium. here, it's usually one of the 3 : xanax, ativan, klonopin. and the tapers are miserable, and the doctors are slack. -fun-
>
> The Orthomolecular people recommend vitamins for everyone (of course), and they recommend high dose B3 (niacin or niacinamide..think 1,500mgs to 3,000 mgs in divided doses), plus a couple of high potency b-complex tabs, and vitamin C (at least as much C as whatever form of B3 one prefers) for those with psych issues -at all- and definitely for those tapering sedatives.
>
> The B3 at high doses boosts tryptophan levels, which seems to help the body produce more serotonin. this has a calming, mellowing effect over time, sans the adverse effects of SSRI drugs. A more immediate effect is GABA activation, so its sort of like taking a sedative that is also a vitamin and antioxidant, etc. Some experts in the "alternative" field report that long term benzodiazepine-treated people are able to taper more quickly, with fewer adverse effects, by going for a Hoffer-style protocol.
>
> GABA supplements are helpful for many people, also. Passion flower, valerian, taurine at sufficient doses...
>
> options, options. I hope things go well for you.Thank you for the information about supplementation, very handy!
Posted by Jay2112 on February 4, 2023, at 13:08:34
In reply to Re: Valium, posted by Hugh on January 30, 2023, at 10:33:27
> A supplement that might help with benzo withdrawal is the probiotic L. plantarum. It's a high GABA producer. It's thought that elevated proline levels can worsen depression, and L. plantarum converts proline into GABA.
>
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413122001280
>
> https://www.swansonvitamins.com/q?kw=l.%20plantarum
>
>I think there are some concerns about using particular probiotics to 'cure' certain things. If you check on reddit, there are people freaking out over l. plantarum causing major apathy, low libido, etc. I found the same with l. reuteri, and it's effect on testosterone. People flipping out, saying it causes them to be too aggressive, etc.
I guess the other thing is, is how much of this is placebo? Please, I am not trying to be so negative, but it seems the 'cure' causes so many other problems/concerns too. Plus, the cost...you look at the price of just one strain, and it will cost you a small fortune to keep in supply for a long time. Then, you think of combining the strains, which would be a smart idea to create balance, and you have to be wealthy to do that!
So, just some thoughts. I'd really like to be proven wrong, as I'd like to go this route and try some different probiotic strains, and see what happens. I just can't afford it!
Jay
Posted by Jay2112 on February 4, 2023, at 18:57:17
In reply to Re: Valium, posted by Christ_empowered on January 30, 2023, at 11:02:19
> hi on the one hand, you were on a relatively low dose. that's good in terms of avoiding a miserable taper. also, I'm glad you were prescribed Valium. here, it's usually one of the 3 : xanax, ativan, klonopin. and the tapers are miserable, and the doctors are slack. -fun-
>
> The Orthomolecular people recommend vitamins for everyone (of course), and they recommend high dose B3 (niacin or niacinamide..think 1,500mgs to 3,000 mgs in divided doses), plus a couple of high potency b-complex tabs, and vitamin C (at least as much C as whatever form of B3 one prefers) for those with psych issues -at all- and definitely for those tapering sedatives.
>
> The B3 at high doses boosts tryptophan levels, which seems to help the body produce more serotonin. this has a calming, mellowing effect over time, sans the adverse effects of SSRI drugs. A more immediate effect is GABA activation, so its sort of like taking a sedative that is also a vitamin and antioxidant, etc. Some experts in the "alternative" field report that long term benzodiazepine-treated people are able to taper more quickly, with fewer adverse effects, by going for a Hoffer-style protocol.
>
> GABA supplements are helpful for many people, also. Passion flower, valerian, taurine at sufficient doses...
>
> options, options. I hope things go well for you.But, too much Niacin is not good either. It caused me to be extremely aggressive, full of anxiety. That was about 500-600mg a day. I am SUPER sensitive to serotonin, being Asperger's/Autistic. Plus, having severe PTSD. I don't do well on serotonin meds, and only Risperdal and AdderallXR (small dose) help my depression and anxiety. There is no vitamin cure (reduce mental anguish) for Autism Spectrum, despite what Dr. Oz and those wackjobs say. (Sorry, but they are quacks trying to sell something with no scientific backing.)
Not saying you are a "quack"...lol. But, many are just as bad as drug pushers, aka Big Pharma.
Jay
Posted by Jay2112 on February 4, 2023, at 19:06:23
In reply to Re: Valium- probiotics for effect... » Hugh, posted by Jay2112 on February 4, 2023, at 13:08:34
I found it interesting to read that much of the original source of probiotics come from other human mother's breast milk. But, I guess it beats a fecal transplant..lol. NOT that I am saying anything against it...but we are the only species who drink the milk of other animals..so no biggie, really. Just....interesting.
Jay
Posted by Lamdage22 on February 9, 2023, at 14:35:28
In reply to Re:Probiotics often from Mother's breast milk, posted by Jay2112 on February 4, 2023, at 19:06:23
Yes but the microbiome is also passed on during birth. It would be good if the mother didnt need any antibiotics in her life. But you dont need to need them to get them.
Posted by Lamdage22 on February 9, 2023, at 14:38:29
In reply to Re:Probiotics often from Mother's breast milk, posted by Jay2112 on February 4, 2023, at 19:06:23
> I found it interesting to read that much of the original source of probiotics come from other human mother's breast milk. But, I guess it beats a fecal transplant..lol. NOT that I am saying anything against it...but we are the only species who drink the milk of other animals..so no biggie, really. Just....interesting.
>
> JayAre you saying that they take the bacteria out of breast milk and then cultivate them for probiotics? No genetic engineering?
Posted by Jay2112 on February 9, 2023, at 19:24:59
In reply to Re:Probiotics often from Mother's breast milk, posted by Lamdage22 on February 9, 2023, at 14:38:29
> > I found it interesting to read that much of the original source of probiotics come from other human mother's breast milk. But, I guess it beats a fecal transplant..lol. NOT that I am saying anything against it...but we are the only species who drink the milk of other animals..so no biggie, really. Just....interesting.
> >
> > Jay
>
> Are you saying that they take the bacteria out of breast milk and then cultivate them for probiotics? No genetic engineering?
>
>
I'm not exactly sure. I was looking up info on the strain l. reuteri, which they use in autism, as l. reuteri has some connection to helping trigger oxytocin, the 'love' chemical, in your brain. It also has anti-depressant and anti-anxiety qualities. It apparently works quite well, but the better brands are pricey....like 40 bucks for 30 tablets.
Jay
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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