Shown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jadde on July 7, 2022, at 15:55:02
Hello all. Had a new experience with Nardil, and hope this helps someone. A few months ago, I felt like I was losing the a/d effect. I was under enormous stress at the time. I tried going up in dose but that didnt work. A while later, I stopped taking my 5mg Zyprexa for sleep. I wanted desperately to lose some weight. It worked but I became a zombie from lack of sleep. So I started the Zyprexa again. Miraculously Nardil kicked back in almost immediately. I had the full blown Nardil hypomanic episode and then it slowly eased into the nice a/d effect with some much needed daily energy.
I suppose its possible that it was the Zyprexa itself but Im almost positive it was Nardil, that needed the Zyprexa push if that makes sense. Im no expert on these things and the experience was a complete surprise. I feel good, I feel normal.
As always YMMV. Again, just thought Id share.
Jade
Posted by PeterMartin on July 8, 2022, at 0:05:38
In reply to Nardil share, posted by Jadde on July 7, 2022, at 15:55:02
Thanks for this! Something to try next time I get in a long depressive period (I'm on Marplan which still works a decade later, but sometimes it doesn't seem to also). I have a bottle of Zyprexa for emergencies (from the last time I was hospitalize in 2016).....like you I'm petrified of gaining weight so I never take it. One or two nights of a small dose would prob be worth it though....to see if it jump starts an AD response at least.
Posted by rose45 on July 8, 2022, at 9:01:51
In reply to Nardil share, posted by Jadde on July 7, 2022, at 15:55:02
I did post some years ago that when Parnate stopped working altogether for me, I added 2.5 mg Zyprexa, and it got it to start again. Unfortunately I then slowly started reducing the zyprexa and the whole combination stopped working altogether.
I am now very ill and back on Zyprexa and unable to come off the parnate, and the combination no longer works. So although noone would want to stay on zyprexa, if possible, the combination stopped working as I reduced it. And I found coming off Zyprexa very very difficult because of the horrible depression and anxiety which comes with the reduction.
Just thought I would share my experience
Posted by rose45 on July 8, 2022, at 9:23:23
In reply to Nardil share, posted by Jadde on July 7, 2022, at 15:55:02
Jadde, Are you still taking the zyprexa..? I would appreciate knowing if the combination is still working for you, and did you have trouble coming off the zyprexa originally? Thank you.
Posted by SLS on July 8, 2022, at 10:52:04
In reply to Nardil share, posted by Jadde on July 7, 2022, at 15:55:02
> Hello all. Had a new experience with Nardil, and hope this helps someone. A few months ago, I felt like I was losing the a/d effect. I was under enormous stress at the time. I tried going up in dose but that didnt work. A while later, I stopped taking my 5mg Zyprexa for sleep. I wanted desperately to lose some weight. It worked but I became a zombie from lack of sleep. So I started the Zyprexa again. Miraculously Nardil kicked back in almost immediately. I had the full blown Nardil hypomanic episode and then it slowly eased into the nice a/d effect with some much needed daily energy.
>
> I suppose its possible that it was the Zyprexa itself but Im almost positive it was Nardil, that needed the Zyprexa push if that makes sense. Im no expert on these things and the experience was a complete surprise. I feel good, I feel normal.
>
> As always YMMV. Again, just thought Id share.
>
> Jade
That's an amazing observation. Do you think that adding Zyprexa after Nardil stops working can bring about another remission?Quetiapine (Seroquel) is often chosen for sleep at dosages between 25-50 mg at bedtime. It is reported to work great. Another avenue is to try several "Z" drugs. They work on a subtype of benzodiazepine receptor that produces sleep, but not sedation or muscle relaxation. Zolpidem (Ambien) is great for sleep initiation, but may become less effective at sleep maintenance over time. It reminds me of triazolam (Halcion). Both drugs have a very short half life. Other Z drugs are probably better for sleep maintenance. I would try zolpidem first. That leaves zaleplon, zipiclone, eszopiclone, and zaleplon. "Z drugs" can be stopped abruptly without provoking a benzodiazepine-type withdrawal syndrome. Withdrawal rebound insomnia is the only withdrawal symptom I experienced coming off zolpidem. Weaning is fairly easy.
- Scott
Posted by Jadde on July 8, 2022, at 15:07:02
In reply to Re: Nardil share, posted by PeterMartin on July 8, 2022, at 0:05:38
> Thanks for this! Something to try next time I get in a long depressive period (I'm on Marplan which still works a decade later, but sometimes it doesn't seem to also). I have a bottle of Zyprexa for emergencies (from the last time I was hospitalize in 2016).....like you I'm petrified of gaining weight so I never take it. One or two nights of a small dose would prob be worth it though....to see if it jump starts an AD response at least.
Youre welcome. I would say its worth a shot. I forgot to mention that I only took 1/2 of my usual dose of Zyprexa and still am, which is 2.5 mg. In addition Im taking .25 mg of lorazepam, also for sleep. So very low doses of each. Thats all I take, in addition to 60mg of Nardil. 30 in the morn, 30 midday. Cant really say if the lorazepam had anything to do with it. It was my effort to be able to sleep and lose weight.
Id maybe give it a week for the Zyprexa. But thats just me.
Be well!
Jade
Posted by Jadde on July 8, 2022, at 15:18:53
In reply to Re: Nardil share, posted by rose45 on July 8, 2022, at 9:23:23
> Jadde, Are you still taking the zyprexa..? I would appreciate knowing if the combination is still working for you, and did you have trouble coming off the zyprexa originally? Thank you.
Hi Rose. Im still taking 2.5 mg Zyprexa each night. This, along with .25 mg lorazapam lets me sleep. In addition, Im not feeling depressed like I was just on Nardil. Zyprexa was fairly easy for me to get off of, except for crazy insomnia. And around that time I was experiencing all over itching. Could be Zyprexa w/d? Not sure. It went away on its own.
Curious, have you ever tried Nardil? The result of adding back in Zyprexa was nothing short of amazing. For a month or so I knew I was a little manic, but that calmed down and now I just feel good.
I hope that helps.
Jade
Posted by Jadde on July 8, 2022, at 15:34:06
In reply to Re: Nardil share, posted by SLS on July 8, 2022, at 10:52:04
> That's an amazing observation. Do you think that adding Zyprexa after Nardil stops working can bring about another remission?I do now! Im still feeling good, and had a month or so of lots and lots of energy.
>
> Quetiapine (Seroquel) is often chosen for sleep at dosages between 25-50 mg at bedtime. It is reported to work great. Another avenue is to try several "Z" drugs. They work on a subtype of benzodiazepine receptor that produces sleep, but not sedation or muscle relaxation. Zolpidem (Ambien) is great for sleep initiation, but may become less effective at sleep maintenance over time. It reminds me of triazolam (Halcion). Both drugs have a very short half life. Other Z drugs are probably better for sleep maintenance. I would try zolpidem first. That leaves zaleplon, zipiclone, eszopiclone, and zaleplon. "Z drugs" can be stopped abruptly without provoking a benzodiazepine-type withdrawal syndrome. Withdrawal rebound insomnia is the only withdrawal symptom I experienced coming off zolpidem. Weaning is fairly easy.
>
>
> - ScottWhen I decided no more Zyprexa (weight gain), I contacted my dr about my sleep issues and they offered me 3 choices. Klonopin, seroquel, and zolpidem. I declined the first two, tried zolpidem twice, with zero sleep effect. And thats when I added back in Zyprexa, thank god.
At this point Im not changing a thing. If Nardil stops working again at some point, Id drop the Zyprexa for a couple of weeks, then restart. It worked this time.
One thought, I wonder if severe lack of sleep could kick off a slightly manic state as well. My gut tells me it was the restart of Zyprexa
Posted by SLS on July 8, 2022, at 16:30:23
In reply to Re: Nardil share » SLS, posted by Jadde on July 8, 2022, at 15:34:06
Hi.
> One thought, I wonder if severe lack of sleep could kick off a slightly manic state as well. My gut tells me it was the restart of Zyprexa
For someone with bipolar disorder who is prone to mania, sleep deprivation can definitely trigger a manic episode. However, with unipolar Major Depressive Disorder, sleep deprivation can trigger a relapse of depression.
I'm glad you are feeling better.
- Scott
Posted by PeterMartin on July 8, 2022, at 18:14:44
In reply to Re: Nardil share » SLS, posted by Jadde on July 8, 2022, at 15:34:06
> When I decided no more Zyprexa (weight gain), I contacted my dr about my sleep issues and they offered me 3 choices. Klonopin, seroquel, and zolpidem. I declined the first two, tried zolpidem twice, with zero sleep effect. And thats when I added back in Zyprexa, thank god.
>Have you tried Seroquel before? Or why were you against that? Just curious as it's worked really well for me for over a decade at a tiny dose (12.5 -25mg) for sleep. Never experienced weight gain that I could attribute to it at that amount.....
Posted by Jadde on July 9, 2022, at 11:27:41
In reply to Re: Nardil share, posted by PeterMartin on July 8, 2022, at 18:14:44
> Have you tried Seroquel before? Or why were you against that? Just curious as it's worked really well for me for over a decade at a tiny dose (12.5 -25mg) for sleep. Never experienced weight gain that I could attribute to it at that amount.....I have not tried Seroquel. But I know someone who did and he gained a lot of weight and was tired all the time. I guess its the devil you do know. I did try Zyprexa a long time ago as an A/d, it helped but nothing like Nardil. What ever the reason, my current combo ( Nardil, Zyprexa, lorazapam) is working well for me. I just have to lay off the Tequila and the carbs!
Posted by Jadde on July 9, 2022, at 11:33:08
In reply to Re: Nardil share » Jadde, posted by SLS on July 8, 2022, at 16:30:23
> Hi.
>
> > One thought, I wonder if severe lack of sleep could kick off a slightly manic state as well. My gut tells me it was the restart of Zyprexa
>
> For someone with bipolar disorder who is prone to mania, sleep deprivation can definitely trigger a manic episode. However, with unipolar Major Depressive Disorder, sleep deprivation can trigger a relapse of depression.
>
> I'm glad you are feeling better.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>Thanks. I believe I am prone to mania. When it hits, the relief from depression is well, a relief. It has never been a problem on Nardil, ppl just notice I have more energy. Me included.
Hope you are well,
Jade
Posted by rose45 on July 10, 2022, at 8:58:39
In reply to Re: Nardil share, posted by Jadde on July 8, 2022, at 15:18:53
> > Jadde, Are you still taking the zyprexa..? I would appreciate knowing if the combination is still working for you, and did you have trouble coming off the zyprexa originally? Thank you.
>
> Hi Rose. Im still taking 2.5 mg Zyprexa each night. This, along with .25 mg lorazapam lets me sleep. In addition, Im not feeling depressed like I was just on Nardil. Zyprexa was fairly easy for me to get off of, except for crazy insomnia. And around that time I was experiencing all over itching. Could be Zyprexa w/d? Not sure. It went away on its own.
>
> Curious, have you ever tried Nardil? The result of adding back in Zyprexa was nothing short of amazing. For a month or so I knew I was a little manic, but that calmed down and now I just feel good.
>
> I hope that helps.
>
> Jade
Yes i have tried nardil, and it lasted 22 ish years until it just stopped working. i did get hypomanic on it though, and remained that way most of the time.I did tell the psych about it but his view at that time , was that it was purer to remain on just one med (This was the uk in 1992) And I put on so much weight and had so many side effects - I far preferred parnate which had fewer side effects. Parnate stopped working after I reduced it 4 or 5 years ago and would not work when I increased the dose. By by adding 2.5 mg olanzapine it worked again...just as in your case with nardil. studpidly I thought that it no longer needed the olanzapine,and started reducing it , which was my big mistake as the whole thing then stopped working .
It may be useful to know that you need to keep taking the olanzapine, or you may react differently. I do find it impossible to come off the olanzapine,or to come off parnate or lamotrigine, all of which I am still taking. Others seem to do it much more easily.
Posted by Jadde on July 12, 2022, at 18:03:34
In reply to Re: Nardil share, posted by rose45 on July 10, 2022, at 8:58:39
> Yes i have tried nardil, and it lasted 22 ish years until it just stopped working. i did get hypomanic on it though, and remained that way most of the time.I did tell the psych about it but his view at that time , was that it was purer to remain on just one med (This was the uk in 1992) And I put on so much weight and had so many side effects - I far preferred parnate which had fewer side effects. Parnate stopped working after I reduced it 4 or 5 years ago and would not work when I increased the dose. By by adding 2.5 mg olanzapine it worked again...just as in your case with nardil. studpidly I thought that it no longer needed the olanzapine,and started reducing it , which was my big mistake as the whole thing then stopped working .
> It may be useful to know that you need to keep taking the olanzapine, or you may react differently. I do find it impossible to come off the olanzapine,or to come off parnate or lamotrigine, all of which I am still taking. Others seem to do it much more easily.22 years hypomanic on Nardil. Wow. Its so weird to me that sometimes even the smallest change can make a huge difference. I have a habit of tweaking things a little here and there. I justify this by realizing that almost every successful trial was requested by me. Of course that can backfire as well. Anyway, sounds like we have had some similar experiences, maybe these observations will help someone with similar wiring :)
Jade
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