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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by linkadge on July 28, 2021, at 8:17:54
In reply to Re: GABAergic hypofunction in psychosis?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 27, 2021, at 13:41:42
If AP withdrawal causes insomnia, you might try some feverfew. It blocks 5-ht2a (like many antipsychotics) which leads to sleep improvement.
Linkadge
Posted by Christ_empowered on July 28, 2021, at 11:31:20
In reply to Re: GABAergic hypofunction in psychosis?, posted by linkadge on July 28, 2021, at 8:17:54
some older research (60s-80s, I think) showed a reduction in symptoms (however that's measured?) when stable people on meds were given benzodiazepines on top. some shrinks still use long term sedatives with neuroleptics, both for symptoms control and to help keep the neuroleptic dosage lower and help with some adverse effects.
i skimmed over a review of old research...standard dose valium (40mgs/day?) was compared to prolixin in people headed towards psychosis (prodromal phase), and they both stabilized people.
guess I'm saying...with or without a bona fide gaba-ergic dysfunction of some sort, sedatives that act upon gaba may very well be helpful with some aspects of schizophrenia.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 28, 2021, at 12:31:29
In reply to Re: GABAergic hypofunction in psychosis?, posted by Christ_empowered on July 28, 2021, at 11:31:20
Thanks.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 29, 2021, at 3:33:04
In reply to Re: GABAergic hypofunction in psychosis?, posted by Christ_empowered on July 28, 2021, at 11:31:20
Thats cool. I do think it helps. Im much more comfortable around people. Almost totally comfortable like I was way back. 5-HTP, Liposomal GABA and Lemon Balm. If they really wanted to help people, they'd pay this stuff.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 29, 2021, at 3:38:23
In reply to Re: GABAergic hypofunction in psychosis?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 29, 2021, at 3:33:04
Non addictive anxiolytics... Im not saying everyone responds like I do, but even if it is just 30%. 30% percent mostly rehabilitated, wouldn't that be pretty awesome?
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 29, 2021, at 3:49:09
In reply to Re: GABAergic hypofunction in psychosis?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 29, 2021, at 3:38:23
Not even the driving ability is impaired. I react well enough to unexpected situations in traffic. The only thing, 5-HTP does give me vivid dreams, mostly nightmaires. I suspect that its the Serotonin->Melatonin issue. But even that doesn't have to be a bad thing. I know whats up with my subconscious this way.
Posted by sigismund on July 29, 2021, at 4:13:49
In reply to Re: GABAergic hypofunction in psychosis?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 29, 2021, at 3:49:09
Magnolia bark extract might help.
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 29, 2021, at 4:17:32
In reply to Re: GABAergic hypofunction in psychosis?, posted by sigismund on July 29, 2021, at 4:13:49
Thank you, I'm taking a note.
Posted by undopaminergic on July 29, 2021, at 5:01:24
In reply to Re: GABAergic hypofunction in psychosis?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 29, 2021, at 3:38:23
> Non addictive anxiolytics...
I think anxiolysis in itself is addictive. If it makes you feel better, you almost inevitably want to do it again.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 29, 2021, at 5:07:36
In reply to Re: GABAergic hypofunction in psychosis?, posted by undopaminergic on July 29, 2021, at 5:01:24
Its a question of definition. If I get the same effect without wanting to escalate the dose, I am happy.
Posted by sigismund on July 29, 2021, at 5:08:49
In reply to Re: GABAergic hypofunction in psychosis?, posted by undopaminergic on July 29, 2021, at 5:01:24
Things you can feel come on (like benzos) are likely to be (very?) much harder to stop than things that take ages (or for me only just work).
Zizyphus spinosa extract is another one.
Posted by linkadge on July 29, 2021, at 17:28:05
In reply to Re: GABAergic hypofunction in psychosis?, posted by undopaminergic on July 29, 2021, at 5:01:24
>I think anxiolysis in itself is addictive. If it >makes you feel better, you almost inevitably want >to do it again.
I completely disagree. I think that anxiolysis is simply the removal of anxiety which does not need to be addictive. While short term stress / anxiety can be helpful / normal in some situations, prolonged anxiety is not normal (especially when it is not accompanied by any significant stressor).
As an analogy. I am not in any physical pain. This is normal. This doesn't mean I am high (like I would be on painkillers). If I took a painkiller I would still get high, even though I am not in pain. This argues that the euphoriant effect of painkillers (or benzos for that matter) are independent of their painkilling or anxiolytic effect.
Linkadge
Posted by porkpiehat on July 29, 2021, at 22:52:10
In reply to Re: GABAergic hypofunction in psychosis?, posted by linkadge on July 29, 2021, at 17:28:05
I'm not sure how helpful this is but I couldn't help thinking as I'm reading that, for me, tiny doses of klonopin help me when I feel zoned out on meds or can't think well.
I read somewhere that being on psych meds can flood the synapses, and a little GABA activity can negate some of the sedation or dissociative effects. I remember feeling pretty good on zoloft until my benzo wore off and then I felt horribly detached. When I took abilify I would just sit in my truck and stare out the window after arriving somewhere. .25 mgs of klonopin would snap me out.
Posted by undopaminergic on July 30, 2021, at 0:15:38
In reply to Re: GABAergic hypofunction in psychosis?, posted by linkadge on July 29, 2021, at 17:28:05
> As an analogy. I am not in any physical pain. This is normal. This doesn't mean I am high (like I would be on painkillers). If I took a painkiller I would still get high, even though I am not in pain. This argues that the euphoriant effect of painkillers (or benzos for that matter) are independent of their painkilling or anxiolytic effect.
>Yes, but when pain is present, painkilling is rewarding, relatively to baseline, and is one reason you'd want to use the drug again. I agree that "addictive" is perhaps not the right term, but I don't know one that fits better.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2021, at 0:32:31
In reply to Re: GABAergic hypofunction in psychosis?, posted by undopaminergic on July 30, 2021, at 0:15:38
Even Psychotherapy creates dependecy if it is the first and only person you could ever really talk to about deep seated problems. I think dependency is a better word for what you mean than addiction. You depend on stuff that makes you better.
> Yes, but when pain is present, painkilling is rewarding, relatively to baseline, and is one reason you'd want to use the drug again. I agree that "addictive" is perhaps not the right term, but I don't know one that fits better.
>
> -undopaminergic
>
Posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2021, at 1:09:58
In reply to Re: GABAergic hypofunction in psychosis?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2021, at 0:32:31
It is hard not to depend on anything when you are trying to get better.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 1, 2021, at 3:09:10
In reply to Re: GABAergic hypofunction in psychosis?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2021, at 1:09:58
If I go full blown Lou Pilder on you guys, please tell me. I dont want to do that. I just want to give some food for thought sometimes. I will contain myself enough to not disrupt the supportive and inclusive nature of this board that I love. It is why I am here. My road to wellness just seems to be different and I want to share. I did get help along the way here anyway. That is what this place is about, which is awesome. I cant give sophisticated scientific theories, I try to support mostly emotionally or with my experiences if I can.
Posted by undopaminergic on August 1, 2021, at 9:34:55
In reply to Am I Lou Pildering you guys?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 1, 2021, at 3:09:10
> If I go full blown Lou Pilder on you guys, please tell me. I dont want to do that. I just want to give some food for thought sometimes. I will contain myself enough to not disrupt the supportive and inclusive nature of this board that I love. It is why I am here. My road to wellness just seems to be different and I want to share. I did get help along the way here anyway. That is what this place is about, which is awesome. I cant give sophisticated scientific theories, I try to support mostly emotionally or with my experiences if I can.
>
>I don't know who Lou Pilder is, and I'm not sure what you are apologetic about.
The only things that sometimes bother me about you are a) that you are sometimes cryptic, at least until one goes back and reads the previous post (the one you're replying to), and b) your tendency to post two or more very short messages successively, rather than a single message with more substance. (a) could be helped by citing (or paraphrasing) what you're referring to, and (b) could solved by not submitting your post so fast, but instead waiting a bit to see if additional thoughts you want to express come to mind.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 1, 2021, at 10:30:53
In reply to Re: Am I Lou Pildering you guys?, posted by undopaminergic on August 1, 2021, at 9:34:55
Thanks for your candid response. Lets see if I can fix that. Should be able to.
Lou Pilder stopped posting before you came here. He took psychiatry criticism and criticism of posters way too far. Spammed the board. He also was always the victim. Both the posters and himself were constantly offended in a vicious circle. It wasnt fun. In short, it was something this board didnt need.
Yeah my participation here would be less spammy without consecutive posts.
Posted by undopaminergic on August 1, 2021, at 11:57:47
In reply to Re: Am I Lou Pildering you guys?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 1, 2021, at 10:30:53
> Thanks for your candid response. Lets see if I can fix that. Should be able to.
>Thanks.
> Lou Pilder stopped posting before you came here.
Apparently, you mean while I was gone, not before I came -- I was active here in 2008, and it appears Lou Pilder was here in 2014.
> Yeah my participation here would be less spammy without consecutive posts.
>I wouldn't worry about "spammy" for now -- this board needs more activity, not less.
-undopaminergic
Posted by linkadge on August 1, 2021, at 13:25:14
In reply to Am I Lou Pildering you guys?, posted by Lamdage22 on August 1, 2021, at 3:09:10
That's hilarious. "Lou Pildering" is now an official verb.
"Friends ....."
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on August 1, 2021, at 13:30:26
In reply to Re: GABAergic hypofunction in psychosis?, posted by undopaminergic on July 30, 2021, at 0:15:38
>Yes, but when pain is present, painkilling is >rewarding, relatively to baseline, and is one >reason you'd want to use the drug again. I agree >that "addictive" is perhaps not the right term, >but I don't know one that fits better.
Yes, but if you had a painkiller that did not cause reward (in and of itself), then yes one might feel better after taking it (if in pain) but it's not the drug producing the reward. It's simply the desirability of less pain.
For example. If you take an aspirin, and it relieves a headache, you wouldn't bother take a second. However, if you took some morphine for that same headache, you might ask for more 10 minutes later.
Linkadge
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 1, 2021, at 13:33:06
In reply to Re: Am I Lou Pildering you guys? » Lamdage22, posted by linkadge on August 1, 2021, at 13:25:14
:)
> That's hilarious. "Lou Pildering" is now an official verb.
>
> "Friends ....."
>
> Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on August 1, 2021, at 13:34:47
In reply to Re: GABAergic hypofunction in psychosis?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2021, at 0:32:31
>Even Psychotherapy creates dependency if it is the >first and only person you could ever really talk >to about deep seated problems. I think dependency >is a better word for what you mean than addiction. >You depend on stuff that makes you better.
I would argue that you still have issues if you are dependent on your therapist. I have rehabilitated sick squirrels (from time to time) (which is a perfect analogy for human psychiatric patients BTW - kidding). The goal however, is to get them back into nature. Hence, you have to be very careful of your procedure. The first two wanted to be my pet. With more rehabs however, we learned how to make them self sufficient.
Of course, it depends on the individual as well. There are certain personalities that are very dependent. Others are more independent.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on August 1, 2021, at 13:41:26
In reply to Re: GABAergic hypofunction in psychosis?, posted by Lamdage22 on July 30, 2021, at 1:09:58
>It is hard not to depend on anything when you are >trying to get better.
Of course. Unfortunately some (or many) of us have been dealt a bad genetic card whereby the medications may relieve the symptoms but they are doing nothing to correct the underlying genetic defects.
You can't nurse somebody back from Huntington's (for example).
There is nothing inherently wrong for taking a chemical so long as the benefits outweigh the risks. You body / brain operate on a kazillion chemicals.
Am I dependent on wearing my glasses? Probably, but who cares?
This being said, I (personally) believe in testing the doses and seeing what happens. Don't keep taking 500mg of a medication if 250mg will do just as well.
Linakdge
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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