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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rjlockhart37 on February 28, 2020, at 23:21:54
i've been thinking about it, so ill just post it because want to know what's known. Its the most general, ibenzo there is. I've been on alprazolam i would take the 2 mg bars, and i would relax and go to sleep, felt immediate relief of all anxiety. Ativan - it will take the stress off if your in stressed state and relief like bricks being removed off. Klonopin - very potent, best used for sleep, it makes you depressed and impaired.
diazepam just a general relieved, take it and feel dull and emotionless, like have a valium slump have to drink caffeine to get out of it. All i can say, it's just a good ole general benzo. Lorazepam is more effective for severe anxiety, and alprazolam is for panic attacks, or immediate relief of all anxiety. That's why alprazolam is abused a lot because it hits the D2 receptors, and makes a small euphoria. D2 your relaxed and a bit pleasured. Diazepam good for daytime anxiety, but for severe anxiety lorazepam is better
alprazolam or lorazepam, which directly chill you out. All i can say, its good medication to take through out the day for general anxiety. They say, and classify it has a long half life, but the effect actually only lasts 7 hours, then it wears off even though its classified as a long acting benzo
I took it for phenibut withdrawal, and sometimes its effect barely noticeable, just a valium slump. Lorazepam is better for severe anxiety, diazepam is general anxiety
that's why it was a such common household name in the 1970s, it was commonly prescribed, just like aspirin. It just for nerves, not severe anxiety.
Posted by undopaminergic on February 29, 2020, at 1:56:00
In reply to diazepam review, posted by rjlockhart37 on February 28, 2020, at 23:21:54
> Klonopin - very potent, best used for sleep, it makes you depressed and impaired.
>I'm not any kind of benzo expert, but in my opinion clonazepam (Klonopin) is too long-acting to use for sleep. It can make you drowsy the next day. For sleep, I prefer midazolam (Dormicum), but I think triazolam (Halcion) would be good too.
In my experience, benzos don't make me feel better. At most, they can make me tired or even sleepy.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Christ_empowered on February 29, 2020, at 5:47:48
In reply to Re: diazepam review, posted by undopaminergic on February 29, 2020, at 1:56:00
for strictly as needed and/or short-term use, I think temazepam is a good choice for the sleep deprived, personally.
klonopin was once a last ditch benzodiazpeine. somehow, it became the 'it' benzodiazepine. one would think xanax xr would be more popular, especially in the depressive states, but...not so much.
valium is a golden oldie. personally, i wish i'd been prescribed valium, even at a lower equivalent dosage, than klonopin or ativan. the muscle relaxant qualities can be helpful, and I think the sedation could potentially help with agitation and sleep, helping reduce neuroleptic dosage and akathisia...
all while keeping the overall benzodiazepine dosage lower than using the high(er) potency drugs. just a thought.
im also somewhat curious about meprobamate. apparently, some people still take it. Good ole Miltown is still being prescribed to new patients. still Schedule IV. I think it would be more physically relaxing, which could be helpful.
Posted by Lamdage22 on February 29, 2020, at 8:21:56
In reply to Re: diazepam review, posted by Christ_empowered on February 29, 2020, at 5:47:48
Was it known right from the beginning that Benzo's are addictive or did they lie about it?
Posted by Christ_empowered on February 29, 2020, at 8:58:32
In reply to Re: diazepam review, posted by Lamdage22 on February 29, 2020, at 8:21:56
oh, doctors knew. early studies on Librium, I think mostly on committed psych patients, showed that the withdrawal syndrome was basically as bad as the barbiturates.
on the plus side, they're a lot less toxic than the barbiturates, and I think there are fewer drug-drug interactions, also. so, there's that.
sometimes, i think psychiatry is useless. maybe we should all just go to family doctors with psychopharmacology training, on top of their core curriculum? Szasz writes that a reasonably intelligent person can grasp psychopharmacology with about 2 weeks of dedicated study. Maybe he is...correct?!?!
Posted by Lamdage22 on February 29, 2020, at 9:52:49
In reply to Re: diazepam review, posted by Christ_empowered on February 29, 2020, at 8:58:32
Me, too. They still push ECT on people so that tells you all you need to know about psychiatry. Most of us lack or lacked love from crucial people in our lives. We didn't lack Pfizer or Lilly.
> sometimes, i think psychiatry is useless. maybe we should all just go to family doctors with psychopharmacology training, on top of their core curriculum? Szasz writes that a reasonably intelligent person can grasp psychopharmacology with about 2 weeks of dedicated study. Maybe he is...correct?!?!
Posted by Lamdage22 on February 29, 2020, at 9:57:09
In reply to Re: diazepam review, posted by Lamdage22 on February 29, 2020, at 9:52:49
Aaron Lewis from Staind put it very well. "And they've made a corporation, Out of desperate people's feelings".
Posted by Jadde on February 29, 2020, at 10:55:19
In reply to Re: diazepam review, posted by undopaminergic on February 29, 2020, at 1:56:00
> > Klonopin - very potent, best used for sleep, it makes you depressed and impaired.
> >This was my experience with it. Took it for nerve pain.
>
> In my experience, benzos don't make me feel better. At most, they can make me tired or even sleepy.Same.
Jade
Posted by undopaminergic on February 29, 2020, at 12:02:52
In reply to Re: diazepam review, posted by Christ_empowered on February 29, 2020, at 8:58:32
>
> sometimes, i think psychiatry is useless. maybe we should all just go to family doctors with psychopharmacology training, on top of their core curriculum? Szasz writes that a reasonably intelligent person can grasp psychopharmacology with about 2 weeks of dedicated study. Maybe he is...correct?!?!
>It has taken me years, but if I had had access to the right kind of teaching materials (eg. books) it would probably have taken less than a year. I have picked up a little here and a little there, and it has added up to an understanding that I perceive to surpass that of most (but far from all) psychiatrists. But Szasz has a point -- you do *not* need to go to medical school full-time for years in order to pick up a decent knowledge of psychopharmacology.
Good psychiatrists do have something that I lack, namely clinical experience. On the other hand, I have personal, first-hand, experience, which a lot, if not most, psychiatrists don't have. Reading anecdotal reports from patients (such as here on dr-bob.org) and doctors (eg. case histories in medical journals) can, to an extent, simulate clinical experience.
-undopaminergic
Posted by rjlockhart37 on February 29, 2020, at 17:40:04
In reply to Re: diazepam review, posted by undopaminergic on February 29, 2020, at 12:02:52
i'm not boasting about it to me its just boring, rather go back to phenibut. It just, you know diazepam has had such a long history of addiction, its general boring benzo. It does relieve anxiety, but like 2.5mg is just, its almost the same as gabapentin at 200mg. I went through phenibut withdrawal, i had to go to the doctor because i thought i was gonna have nervous breakdown, could not sleep, she said benzo because to prevent seizures from withdrawal. And just left it from there. I really prefer lorazepam, or alprazolam, there more for severe anxiety. diazepam is just general anxiety, you have to take high doses for severe anxiety. I've had severe anxiety during the day, and diazepam just general, like aspirin. Didnt help, needed to phenibut to calm the anxiety again.
Posted by SLS on March 4, 2020, at 8:46:52
In reply to diazepam review, posted by rjlockhart37 on February 28, 2020, at 23:21:54
Clonazepam (Klonopin) is well-known for producing depression or making it worse. Not everyone reacts this way, but a large percentage of people do. Many years ago, clonazepam was studied more closely than it is now. A few studies reported that it produced changes in serotonin function, but they were conflicting with respect to the pharmacology involved.
Lorazepam (Ativan) can work moderately well for anxiety. As long as the dosage isn't too high, I find it to be a very clean drug that doesn't produce sedation or euphoria. It takes the edge off without producing changes in cognition or mood. I don't feel at all "drugged" when taking it. 2 mg three times a day works well for me.
Alprazolam (Xanax) is probably the most potent benzodiazepine for treating anxiety. Unlike lorazepam, it often produces a "laid-back" feeling that some people describe as floating on a cloud. Some people report feelings of euphoria or an antidepressnt effect. All of the benzodiazepines produce various levels of physiological dependence and usually produce withdrawal effects when they are discontinued. However, alprazolam has the greatest potential to be addictive and abused. It is psychologically addictive and can produce strong cravings. However, alprazolam is probably the most potent anxiolytic for people who have more severe anxiety disorders.
- Scott
Posted by undopaminergic on March 4, 2020, at 9:00:28
In reply to Re: diazepam review, posted by SLS on March 4, 2020, at 8:46:52
>
> Alprazolam (Xanax) is probably the most potent benzodiazepine for treating anxiety. Unlike lorazepam, it often produces a "laid-back" feeling that some people describe as floating on a cloud. Some people report feelings of euphoria or an antidepressnt effect. All of the benzodiazepines produce various levels of physiological dependence and usually produce withdrawal effects when they are discontinued. However, alprazolam has the greatest potential to be addictive and abused. It is psychologically addictive and can produce strong cravings. However, alprazolam is probably the most potent anxiolytic for people who have more severe anxiety disorders.
>I think opies are more potent. I need more research though. I never noticed any "nice" feelings from benzos, but I never tried alprazolam so far.
-undopaminergic
Posted by Lamdage22 on March 4, 2020, at 9:03:45
In reply to Re: diazepam review, posted by SLS on March 4, 2020, at 8:46:52
In my experience, if Lorazepam is a 7, Xanax is an 8. Its not that much worse i think. Is it possible that Xanax is less amnesic than Lorazepam?
Posted by rjlockhart37 on March 4, 2020, at 17:39:33
In reply to Re: diazepam review, posted by SLS on March 4, 2020, at 8:46:52
SLS
yes your correct, i have been on those 3 benzos in the past, same thing, klono is potent and is good for sleep, but is depresso clonnzo drug, lorazepam is chill out benzo, it will take stress and you all of sudden feel it lifted off, but it's not as strong ask klono for sleep. xanax omg everyone its potent, it has antidepressant effects, and its fast relieving anxiety, almost like enjoyable to take one.
diazepam is just a good ole joe benzo, movies in the 80s they would always make a reference to valium, to chill out. Its not as potent as lorazepam, i dont know why they say its long acting, it has very long half life, but the actual effect the anxiety relief is 7 hours, maybe 8 in some people. It has lesser withdrawal symptoms because of its long half life, xanax is short and hell getting off of. Valium is just a general calm, general anxiety relief, severe you have to take 15-20 mg doses.
Posted by rjlockhart37 on March 4, 2020, at 17:44:15
In reply to Re: diazepam review, posted by rjlockhart37 on March 4, 2020, at 17:39:33
its not as good for panic attacks either, have to take a heavy dose during a panic attack to relieve it, like 15-20mg.
Posted by rjlockhart37 on March 4, 2020, at 17:49:27
In reply to Re: diazepam review, posted by rjlockhart37 on March 4, 2020, at 17:39:33
its boring, no distinct characteristics to it, first benzo released after librium, but i don't know why people got addicted to it so much, mainly because it was the only benzo out there during that period of time, then alprazolam took over later the most prescribed
This is the end of the thread.
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