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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Christ_empowered on March 31, 2016, at 9:22:18
I dont' wanna get too 1970s on everybody, but I've been thinking about it...for some (alot?) of us, I think there are factors that keep us sick. For some people, its family, some people its economic issues, some people its the mental health system itself, some people I think it may be stigma...if you've been out of the mainstream for a while, it can be impossible to get back. Why? Much of society in the 21st century won't let you back in.
I'm rambling. I'm just thinking about this. I don't doubt that madness/mental illness is a real problem, and targeted somatic treatments can help, but...I think there's a lot going on outside of symptoms and such when we're talking about "mental illness" and what it means to be "mentally ill," especially "severely mentally ill."
What do y'all think?
Posted by J Kelly on March 31, 2016, at 10:25:35
In reply to factors that may keep us 'sick', posted by Christ_empowered on March 31, 2016, at 9:22:18
> I dont' wanna get too 1970s on everybody, but I've been thinking about it...for some (alot?) of us, I think there are factors that keep us sick. For some people, its family, some people its economic issues, some people its the mental health system itself, some people I think it may be stigma...
I agree that life's circumstances can certainly hold us back. Sometimes when I'm having a good day, good week, whatever, I then start realizing all that I've lost and all that I have to recover. It can be a trigger. Catch 22.
> if you've been out of the mainstream for a while, it can be impossible to get back. Why? Much of society in the 21st century won't let you back in.
>
> I'm rambling. I'm just thinking about this. I don't doubt that madness/mental illness is a real problem, and targeted somatic treatments can help, but...I think there's a lot going on outside of symptoms and such when we're talking about "mental illness" and what it means to be "mentally ill," especially "severely mentally ill."I think when a person with mental illness finds him/herself in some form of remission it is very possible to rebuild a life that is worth living, even if it doesn't resemble the life we enjoyed before the illness. I agree outside influences can slow this process.
And for some, I'm sorry to say this, wellness remains beyond reach due to some of the reasons you listed. Dysfunctional family, seemingly impossible financial situations, the mental health system.
>
> What do y'all think?Jade
Posted by Christ_empowered on March 31, 2016, at 11:05:42
In reply to Re: factors that may keep us 'sick' » Christ_empowered, posted by J Kelly on March 31, 2016, at 10:25:35
yeah...now that I read your response, I see that its fairly obvious...not everybody recovers and gets on the road to wellville.
Oh well. I'll count my blessings from now on. I am apparently in recovery and doing...remarkably well, all things considered.
I just think about how many people never get to recover, and not just because of symptoms and all that.
Posted by J Kelly on March 31, 2016, at 11:34:06
In reply to Re: factors that may keep us 'sick', posted by Christ_empowered on March 31, 2016, at 11:05:42
> yeah...now that I read your response, I see that its fairly obvious...not everybody recovers and gets on the road to wellville.
Nah... I don't think any of it is obvious and its an interesting point you bring up.
>
> Oh well. I'll count my blessings from now on. I am apparently in recovery and doing...remarkably well, all things considered.This is great to hear!! To what do you give credit? I'm sorry if you've posted this and I missed it :)
>
> I just think about how many people never get to recover, and not just because of symptoms and all that.I hear ya. Some of us are luckier than others.
Jade
Posted by Phillipa on March 31, 2016, at 11:39:26
In reply to Re: factors that may keep us 'sick' » Christ_empowered, posted by J Kelly on March 31, 2016, at 11:34:06
Think it depends on the illnesses. Simple first time depression usually responds quickly for a lot or anxiety issures. Others and not naming them are what is called chronic and meds allow semi to normal life. Phillipa
Posted by Christ_empowered on March 31, 2016, at 13:25:53
In reply to Re: factors that may keep us 'sick', posted by Phillipa on March 31, 2016, at 11:39:26
For me, I think its largely stigma. I went off the rails when I should have been productive. I was mentally ill...but no professional around here cared, because my people "weren't important."Now, I get proper treatment, no probs. The small town I live in...the narrative seems to be that I "wanted to be special," and I just now developed Schizophrenia. The place I go to for treatment says I had problems from a young age and now its some flavor Bipolar I.
Ugh. I'm hoping maybe I can move one day, but the question is...move where? and do...what, exactly? Any place is a terrible place if you're poor.
Oh, yeah...and my people are "important" now, so I get treated better. It also helps that my counselor is a Christian.
--sigh--
Posted by Jeroen on March 31, 2016, at 15:27:13
In reply to factors that may keep us 'sick', posted by Christ_empowered on March 31, 2016, at 9:22:18
indeed
Posted by Tabitha on March 31, 2016, at 19:43:55
In reply to Re: factors that may keep us 'sick', posted by Christ_empowered on March 31, 2016, at 13:25:53
> the narrative seems to be that I "wanted to be special,"
Ugh, that's just awful. By that logic anyone with any uncommon health problem should be guilty. I hate how people in smallish groups want to put a label on someone, and you're forever defined by that thing.
To answer your original question, I've started to think that long-term therapy was a factor that kept me sick. I thought I was taking care of myself, and trusted her to speak up if my meds were off, but she didn't speak up and she didn't recognize the issue. Plus, she encouraged me to think I was uniquely troubled and thus needed endless therapy. And she encouraged me to focus on my problems and think about them and talk endlessly about them. It made me think of myself as a very, very dysfunctional person making tiny bits of progress.
I'm probably the minority. Other people feel helped by therapy. I'm glad you seem to like your counselor.
Posted by Christ_empowered on March 31, 2016, at 19:57:37
In reply to Re: factors that may keep us 'sick' » Christ_empowered, posted by Tabitha on March 31, 2016, at 19:43:55
I think therapy is just as potentially dangerous as abusive psychiatry. I've had terrible counselors, that's for sure...until this guy, basically all of them were domineering, condescending, and liars. I mean, whenI got a hold of just some of my records, there were straight up lies in there.
I only see my counselor every 6-8 weeks. Its the recovery model. I think that's probably a good way to do it. I had intensive therapy a while back and it triggered psychotic depression. :-(
Posted by SLS on April 1, 2016, at 8:25:53
In reply to Re: factors that may keep us 'sick' » Christ_empowered, posted by Tabitha on March 31, 2016, at 19:43:55
> > It made me think of myself as a very, very dysfunctional person making tiny bits of progress.
:-(
How damaging that can be.
My last psychotherapist demanded that I either go to school or find a job, or else she would terminate my treatment. I forced myself to get a job with Staples, even though it went against all of my instincts and what I had learned about myself and my illness. However, I could not help but to entertain the possibility that my therapist knew better than I did, and that I wouldn't make any further progress towards recovery had I not tried to work. Well, I failed the Staples orientation program because I couldn't read fast enough and failed to understand what I did read. The thought of being forced to work a cash register was overwhelming. I didn't last a day. The damage that this failure did to my self-esteem and confidence was almost crippling and lasted for many months. My therapist f_cked-up big time. I terminated her.
- Scott
Posted by B2chica on April 1, 2016, at 13:34:26
In reply to Re: factors that may keep us 'sick' » Tabitha, posted by SLS on April 1, 2016, at 8:25:53
ok, i have rewritten this 3 times so that i dont sound like a raving lunitic.
but that is the most REDICULOUS Thing i have ever heard of! i cant believe she was even a LICENSE therapist!
yes, hmm having self doubts, well i can cure that by setting you up for failure!
have trouble reading and comprehending? Lets give you Manuals and Handbooks to learn,
Get overwhelmed easy? lets set you infront of a digital cash register with at LEAST 500 options that oh by the way, you have to memorize! and to be Totally Frank, even on my good days i would be overwhelmed by those things..
i am VERY Sorry you had to ever go through that Scott. Very sorry indeed.
Posted by Escapee on April 1, 2016, at 14:01:19
In reply to Re: factors that may keep us 'sick' » SLS, posted by B2chica on April 1, 2016, at 13:34:26
Whatever the cause there is almost always a good enough reason to go on meds. Even things like loneliness, shyness and family isolation. None of them NEED meds, but I believe that instead of letting the matter linger and possibly ideas and actions of suicide they can be, for a majority of people life savers. Thought of having yoga to pull someone out of deep depression is dangerous. In this day and age, Unfortunitely many ofr the non-drug aproach simply aren't available the the majority of people. No friend or family. No drive. No point in anything. People giving up on every thing. Meds can help to give those symptoms a kick in the teeth.
Posted by Christ_empowered on April 1, 2016, at 14:09:17
In reply to Re: factors that may keep us 'sick', posted by Escapee on April 1, 2016, at 14:01:19
meds can be life-changing and lifesaving, I think. They can also be overprescribed and their beneficial effects exaggerrated. Its a mixed bag.
SLS, I'm sorry about your terrible therapist. Sometimes I think that some (many?) people in mental health, particulary the counselors and therapists, are there because they need power, to control and label people. I've seen it in psychiatrists, too (especially --male-- psychiatrists).
My former counselors and shrinks were more interested in control and maintaining me in a state of constant sickness and dependency than they were in helping me. Strangely enough, public/community mental health has proven much more helpful because of the recovery model. Helping people recover is a much wiser use of limited resources than maintaining them/us in sickness.
Posted by J Kelly on April 1, 2016, at 14:28:33
In reply to Re: factors that may keep us 'sick' » SLS, posted by B2chica on April 1, 2016, at 13:34:26
> ok, i have rewritten this 3 times so that i dont sound like a raving lunitic.
> but that is the most REDICULOUS Thing i have ever heard of! i cant believe she was even a LICENSE therapist!
> yes, hmm having self doubts, well i can cure that by setting you up for failure!
> have trouble reading and comprehending? Lets give you Manuals and Handbooks to learn,
> Get overwhelmed easy? lets set you infront of a digital cash register with at LEAST 500 options that oh by the way, you have to memorize! and to be Totally Frank, even on my good days i would be overwhelmed by those things..
> i am VERY Sorry you had to ever go through that Scott. Very sorry indeed.
>Double agreed and double ditto. My therapist believes in do what you can moment to moment. And she leaves that up to me. Suggestions are good. But they are only that, suggestions. Suggestions to try on, roll around in, and then take or leave.
Shame on her.
Jade
Posted by Tabitha on April 1, 2016, at 14:40:07
In reply to Re: factors that may keep us 'sick' » Tabitha, posted by SLS on April 1, 2016, at 8:25:53
> I could not help but to entertain the possibility that my therapist knew better than I did, and that I wouldn't make any further progress towards recovery had I not tried to work.
That's exactly the logic that kept me in bad therapy for way too long. I not only entertained the possibility that she knew better, but I committed to thinking that way. I thought it was necessary for treatment to work. That, plus the fear I'd regress if I quit therapy made me vulnerable to every type of lunacy she wanted to try on me. :-(
> Well, I failed the Staples orientation program because I couldn't read fast enough and failed to understand what I did read. The thought of being forced to work a cash register was overwhelming. I didn't last a day.That sounds absolutely awful. Working retail is something I don't think I could handle for a day, either. Any counselor who insisted that working at Staples would improve your mental health deserved to be fired.
I'm volunteering right now. There's no fixed schedule, so I go in for an hour or two whenever I want. It's pretty enjoyable. I'd like more income but I don't want to lose control of my schedule.
Posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2016, at 17:02:23
In reply to Re: factors that may keep us 'sick' » SLS, posted by Tabitha on April 1, 2016, at 14:40:07
Tabitha may I ask what sort of volunteering you do? As being retired RN, I could no longer work in a hospital setting or nursing home as getting older. And a few hours is so perfect. Thanks. Phillipa
Posted by Tabitha on April 1, 2016, at 19:06:50
In reply to Re: factors that may keep us 'sick' » Tabitha, posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2016, at 17:02:23
Posted by baseball55 on April 1, 2016, at 20:04:25
In reply to Re: factors that may keep us 'sick' » Tabitha, posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2016, at 17:02:23
Well, as some of you know from previous posts, I had nothing but wonderful experiences with therapy, therapists and psychiatrists. Meds helped, meds helped me (sometimes) with the deep biological depressive symptoms I would suffer.
But meds couldn't end my terrible social isolation, my inability to feel connected or comfortable with people, my distress over a terrible childhood/adolescence that was started to eat at me constantly, my difficult relationship with my husband, whose response to my depression and a suicide attempt was - why don't you just kill yourself? --, my inability to extricate myself from that relationship because I feared being alone above anything else, my complete inability to reflect on myself or identify feelings. None of these issues were caused by a biological mental illness. They had deep psycho-social roots and for this, I needed therapy.
It's disheartening to hear so many people talk about bad therapists. I wish I could give you my therapist's number (he is also my psychiatrist). He helped me so much. OTOH, I looked up his ratings on one of those sites for MDs and someone commented that he was manipulative, judgmental and insensitive. So "fit" matters so much. If we're lucky, we click with someone. But if we're not lucky.
Posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2016, at 21:41:45
In reply to Re: babblemailed you (nm) » Phillipa, posted by Tabitha on April 1, 2016, at 19:06:50
Thanks :)
Posted by Samuel Morgan on April 7, 2016, at 23:36:42
In reply to factors that may keep us 'sick', posted by Christ_empowered on March 31, 2016, at 9:22:18
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