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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 22 to 46 of 46. Go back in thread:
Posted by SLS on February 10, 2016, at 5:16:22
In reply to Re: Can AD's Cause Long-Term Damage that is Reversible » SLS, posted by Phillipa on February 9, 2016, at 22:02:20
> Yes Especially due to age. But you like lexapro. I can do that but did go to 5mg last night and kept the same amount of luvox? No difference. Phillipa
As a nurse, you surely know better than to evaluate the worth of an antidepressant drug after only one day.
1. 5 mg/day of Lexapro is still only half of the lowest recommended dose (10-20 mg/day). Some people go up to 40 mg/day, especially for OCD. I would say that the most common dosage used is 20 mg/day.
2. Even if 5 mg/day were the perfect dosage of the perfect drug for you, it would still take a minimum of 3-6 weeks before symptoms improve and you begin to feel better. You must commit to a drug trial before beginning it. This would include tolerating side effects. It would be a good idea to confer with your doctor if you reach the point of discontinuing the drug prematurely.
3. You could cross-titrate the Luvox and Lexapro, or even simply drop the Luvox altogether once you begin increasing the Lexapro dosage.
I sometimes get the feeling that you are your own worst enemy when it comes to selecting and committing to treatments. The faster you get your depression and anxiety under control, the younger you will stay. Chronic stress beats the hell out of the whole body, particularly the brain.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 10, 2016, at 8:46:57
In reply to Re: Can AD's Cause Long-Term Damage that is Reversible, posted by SLS on February 10, 2016, at 5:16:22
> > Yes Especially due to age. But you like lexapro. I can do that but did go to 5mg last night and kept the same amount of luvox? No difference. Phillipa
>
> As a nurse, you surely know better than to evaluate the worth of an antidepressant drug after only one day.
>
> 1. 5 mg/day of Lexapro is still only half of the lowest recommended dose (10-20 mg/day). Some people go up to 40 mg/day, especially for OCD. I would say that the most common dosage used is 20 mg/day.
>
> 2. Even if 5 mg/day were the perfect dosage of the perfect drug for you, it would still take a minimum of 3-6 weeks before symptoms improve and you begin to feel better. You must commit to a drug trial before beginning it. This would include tolerating side effects. It would be a good idea to confer with your doctor if you reach the point of discontinuing the drug prematurely.
>
> 3. You could cross-titrate the Luvox and Lexapro, or even simply drop the Luvox altogether once you begin increasing the Lexapro dosage.
>
> I sometimes get the feeling that you are your own worst enemy when it comes to selecting and committing to treatments. The faster you get your depression and anxiety under control, the younger you will stay. Chronic stress beats the hell out of the whole body, particularly the brain.
>
>
> - ScottFriends,
Be not deceived. What Scott has posted could draw you into a life-time of misery and lead to your death by suicide or the drug s could kill you. Let us look at how psychiatry hooks even children into a life-time of dependence on mind-altering drugs that could induce a life-ruining condition, addiction and death.
Here Scott writes that in order for the drugs to be determined to improve depression/anxiety ect, they have to be taken a minimum of 3-6 weeks.
Can you see it? Tell me can you see it?
If you can't see it, the hook is that the drugs can cause addiction in that time-frame so that when the drug is stopped, withdrawal could set in and then the sufferer could return to the psychiatrist to get another drug and repeat even more addiction and the chances can increase of suicide or murder or life-ruining conditions that could cause death induced from the drugs.
And has Scott posted that he is free from depression/ anxiety from his drugging over the years? I see posts by him saying that all of his drugs have not done so.
The human tragedy here is that readers could be misled to believe that what Scott is posting here is supportive, but Scott does not tell the whole truth because he leaves out the other side of the coin which could seriously mislead you to think that what Scott is advocating is safer than it really is. And worse, children reading here could think that taking Scott's advice could not cause any harmful effects at all. That could start them on a lifetime of sorrows that could cause them to kill themselves from the drugs or even murder their own parents as the drugs kill thousands of people each month, but Scott leaves that fact out.
Parents, beware of Scott's advice here, for what he has posted here could mislead you to believe that you have to take drugs for stress as he does not list any alternative. But there is an alternative to taking mind-altering drugs that could maim you for life for your stress and even shorten your life span by killing you or causing you to kill yourself. For it has been revealed to me that those that take these drugs become slaves to the drugs and the psychiatrists and others that traffic in them. Do you want to be shackled to the psychiatrist and the drugs headed for the dance at the pharmacy?
Friends, there is a way out. And the way out is to be drawn to The Light of Life. That Light will shine to expose the lies of drugs and the deception carried out by those looking for a new fool. Be not deceived. There is a continual body of scientific knowledge showing that these drugs do not work and are addictive even worse so than heroine. And even more so, look out kids, your going to be hit, by losers and cheaters hanging 'round the druggies, sucking you down a whirlpool into the sewers of humanity. Friends, the deceived mind is the devil's playground.
Lou
Posted by SLS on February 10, 2016, at 23:24:39
In reply to Re: Can AD's Cause Long-Term Damage that is Reversible » Phillipa, posted by SLS on February 9, 2016, at 13:44:13
> Hi Phillipa.
>
> Even though you obsess, I doubt that you have true OCD, and should not be treated as if you do. I would guess that you have some type of anxiety disorder. Right now, you are taking too little of any one drug to produce a substantial therapeutic effect.
>
> Paxil 20-40 mg/day
> Luvox 100-300 mg/day
> Lexapro 10-30 mg/day
> Xanax 2.0-4.0 mg/day
>
> Right now, it probably makes sense to increase the dosage of Lexapro if you can tolerate it. You are already on it. Lexapro can help with GAD, OCD, and depression. If you genuinely have OCD, you would need the higher dosages of the SSRIs for longer periods of time.
>
> There is so much that you have not tried. Are you afraid of these drugs?In order to remedy any possible misunderstandings, I wish to state that the drugs I listed above are those that Phillipa takes or has taken in the past. I did not mean to recommend that they be taken together.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 11, 2016, at 9:59:21
In reply to Re: Can AD's Cause Long-Term Damage that is Reversible, posted by SLS on February 10, 2016, at 23:24:39
> > Hi Phillipa.
> >
> > Even though you obsess, I doubt that you have true OCD, and should not be treated as if you do. I would guess that you have some type of anxiety disorder. Right now, you are taking too little of any one drug to produce a substantial therapeutic effect.
> >
> > Paxil 20-40 mg/day
> > Luvox 100-300 mg/day
> > Lexapro 10-30 mg/day
> > Xanax 2.0-4.0 mg/day
> >
> > Right now, it probably makes sense to increase the dosage of Lexapro if you can tolerate it. You are already on it. Lexapro can help with GAD, OCD, and depression. If you genuinely have OCD, you would need the higher dosages of the SSRIs for longer periods of time.
> >
> > There is so much that you have not tried. Are you afraid of these drugs?
>
> In order to remedy any possible misunderstandings, I wish to state that the drugs I listed above are those that Phillipa takes or has taken in the past. I did not mean to recommend that they be taken together.
>
>
> - ScottScott,
But you have recommended taking combinations of drugs here. Combinations that could cause addiction and life-ruining conditions and death.
Let there be no misunderstanding. Readers could be seriously misled by you when you promote a drug, advocate changing dosages and such which could lead to their deaths or even murder others or get addiction and life-ruining conditions. The FDA rules require when a drug is promoted to give a balanced view including the most important adverse consequences. These rules are not being followed here and I do not know why you and Mr. Hsiung are exempt from the FDA rules. So what I want you to do from here on is to:
A. not advocate to anyone to change the dosage of these mind-altering drugs because changing the dosage could cause great adverse effects including death. An alternative would be to say to the poster to return to their provider and ask for a dosage adjustment. I do not think that advocating any type of diagnosis or advising changes in dosage of these drugs to be supportive at all, since you are not a psychiatrist or even a licensed psychopharmacologist or a degreed pharmacist. In fact, what you are doing here could cause the death of children because without Mr. Hsiung interceding here with you, there could be readers thinking that what you post is actual fact when it is not because the site is chaired by a psychiatrist and they could think that what is posted here is validated by him since he allows you free reign in posting what could kill others.
B. I want you to go back and post corrections in all the posts where you have promoted these drugs to include the whole truth so that readers are not deceived to think that the drugs promoted by you are safer than they really are including warning about death.
C. I want you to go to write a letter to Mr. Hsiung asking for him to not allow you to promote these drugs in defiance of the FDA rules so that if you do, he could post a disclaimer that your promotion of the drugs could mislead readers to think that the drugs are safer than they really are.
D. I want you to resign immediately from this forum if you are going to refuse to stop promoting drugs here without also listing the adverse effects including death that could befall the reader that takes your advise
Lou
Posted by Phillipa on February 11, 2016, at 10:22:37
In reply to Lou's response-addiction, life-ruining conditions- » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on February 11, 2016, at 9:59:21
Lou if you are not Dr Bob you have no authority to ask Scott to do any of the above. So why are you almost demanding he do this? I make my own decisions I listen to recommendations. But ultimately I do exactly what I want to do in all things in life. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 11, 2016, at 13:43:59
In reply to Re: Lou's response-addiction, life-ruining conditions- » Lou Pilder, posted by Phillipa on February 11, 2016, at 10:22:37
> Lou if you are not Dr Bob you have no authority to ask Scott to do any of the above. So why are you almost demanding he do this? I make my own decisions I listen to recommendations. But ultimately I do exactly what I want to do in all things in life. Phillipa
Phillipa,
Many here could withstand the propaganda being spewed out here as "support" and discard what they think is wrong. But there are a subset of people here easily swayed by Scott and Mr. Hsiung to accept whatever they post as correct and good and such and supportive. Watch out.This is all because Mr. Hsiung states that he is using the Golden Rule and to trust him in that what he does in his thinking will be good for his community as a whole. Watch out.But is that the standard that determines if something is supportive or not? Or is it a transparent attempt to dupe readers into the bowels of psychiatry that advocates mind-altering drugs that could induce addiction and life-threatening conditions and death? Watch out. Many can be deceived by a psychiatrist that says that readers are to try and trust him. The historical parallels to that have caused the deaths of millions of people. Why should people die or get addicted or suffer a life-ruining condition so that Mr. Hsiung's community will be improved (in his thinking)?
Let there be no misunderstanding here. Watch out. The psychiatrist's condoning mind-altering drugs that can addict and kill is a powerful influence for children and others to accept false conclusions and be killed by the drugs or kill themselves and/or others. Thousands of people are killed each month by these drugs being promoted here as "supportive". And there are people like you that are intelligent and think that they can not be deceived. But people greater than you have been deceived to commit mass-murder on the guise that it will be good for their country as a whole which they think justifies even slavery and infanticide.
Many of you can see the fallacies being promoted here as being supportive. But what about the kids with the backpacks peeking through the portals of this website after school? They see hatred, anti-Semitism, slander and falsehoods, all trying to cover up a tell-tale list of deaths with evasion. And the next thing you know they will be reading the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. And bragging about getting illegal drugs advertised from here. Mothers, I say, take you son, your daughter out of the mire and dirt being pandered here as support, for the deceived mind is the devil's playground.
Lou
Posted by SLS on February 11, 2016, at 15:58:36
In reply to Can AD's Cause Long-Term Damage that is Reversible, posted by babbler20 on February 8, 2016, at 15:15:36
Posted by Lamdage22 on February 13, 2016, at 3:26:23
In reply to Re: Can AD's Cause Long-Term Damage that is Reversible (nm), posted by SLS on February 11, 2016, at 15:58:36
Posted by SLS on February 13, 2016, at 7:44:40
In reply to Re: Can AD's Cause Damage that is Irreversible (nm), posted by Lamdage22 on February 13, 2016, at 3:26:23
Hi Lamdage.
I actually approached this question in my first post along this thread.
"My position on this is that ADs can produce changes that persist. One example of this is the ability of an AD to produce a remission that lasts beyond drug discontinuation. Of course, this is the best of scenarios. Some people feel that SSRIs can produce amotivation and sexual side effects that last well after the drug is discontinued. I, myself, have experienced changes in various bodily functions as a result of exposure to TCAs. Another manifestation of long-term changes in psychobiological function produced by ADs, especially SSRIs, is the phenomenon of drug-induced drug refractoriness. If one attains full remission on an AD which lasts a decade, and then decides to discontinue it, it may not work if it has to be restarted upon relapse two months later. Long-term exposure to a drug can induce changes that are not easily reversed."
I was careful not to use the word "damage" because I don't know how people define it. I tried to lay out some facts as I have come to know them and allow others to determine for themselves if they represent damage or not.
I would like to discuss this further with you. I might be able to answer your question more directly if you were to provide more details as to your thoughts and concerns.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on February 14, 2016, at 12:05:52
In reply to Re: Can AD's Cause Damage that is Irreversible » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on February 13, 2016, at 7:44:40
I am thinking to change from low dose Effexor to low dose Viibryd.
I dont want permanent sexual problems!
What do you think?
It would have to be AFTER my switch to Cannabidiol which will be next month.
Posted by SLS on February 14, 2016, at 14:39:20
In reply to Re: Can AD's Cause Damage that is Irreversible, posted by Lamdage22 on February 14, 2016, at 12:05:52
In what ways does Effexor affect you sexually?
Effexor will always be there for you if Viibryd doesn't work.
My doctor likes Viibryd. I found it partially effective with no sexual side effects.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on February 15, 2016, at 3:58:04
In reply to Re: Can AD's Cause Damage that is Irreversible, posted by SLS on February 14, 2016, at 14:39:20
difficulty reaching orgasm.
Posted by SLS on February 15, 2016, at 7:15:51
In reply to Re: Can AD's Cause Damage that is Irreversible, posted by Lamdage22 on February 15, 2016, at 3:58:04
> difficulty reaching orgasm.
That's extremely frustrating.
How long have you been taking Effexor at 75 mg/day? Does it help at all?
The drug that gave me the most trouble was Nardil. However, I recovered the ability to orgasm after 3 months, although there was some delay. Interestingly, there was no loss of pleasure sensation at any time. Some people describe "genital anesthesia" with SSRIs. Do you experience a similar numbness?
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on February 15, 2016, at 14:38:48
In reply to Re: Can AD's Cause Damage that is Irreversible, posted by SLS on February 15, 2016, at 7:15:51
> > difficulty reaching orgasm.
>
> That's extremely frustrating.
>
> How long have you been taking Effexor at 75 mg/day? Does it help at all?I have been taking 75mg for about 2 Months. Before 37.5mg for two years.
> The drug that gave me the most trouble was Nardil. However, I recovered the ability to orgasm after 3 months, although there was some delay. Interestingly, there was no loss of pleasure sensation at any time. Some people describe "genital anesthesia" with SSRIs. Do you experience a similar numbness?
>
>
> - ScottI thought i had recovered it. It seemed to be better but last time it wasnt. No i wouldnt call it numb.
I think Viibryd is worth a shot. Brintellix was pretty awful (suicidal).
Posted by SLS on February 15, 2016, at 17:38:44
In reply to Re: Can AD's Cause Damage that is Irreversible, posted by Lamdage22 on February 15, 2016, at 14:38:48
> > > difficulty reaching orgasm.
> >
> > That's extremely frustrating.
> >
> > How long have you been taking Effexor at 75 mg/day? Does it help at all?
>
> I have been taking 75mg for about 2 Months. Before 37.5mg for two years.
>
> > The drug that gave me the most trouble was Nardil. However, I recovered the ability to orgasm after 3 months, although there was some delay. Interestingly, there was no loss of pleasure sensation at any time. Some people describe "genital anesthesia" with SSRIs. Do you experience a similar numbness?
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> I thought i had recovered it. It seemed to be better but last time it wasnt. No i wouldnt call it numb.
>
> I think Viibryd is worth a shot. Brintellix was pretty awful (suicidal).I'm glad you have the courage to try yet another medication, considering your previous experiences. As a full agonist, Britellix might pound on 5-HT1a receptors too hard for you. I don't really know. Viibryd is a partial agonist, and could perhaps help stabilize serotonin activity.
I thought Viibryd was a clean drug with regard to side effects. I wish it would have worked for me for more than just a week. It felt pretty good, though.
You've been sick for a long time. It might take a few months of steady treatment to feel substantially better, even on the best drugs. If it helps at all, and you find the side effects tolerable, try not to judge its ultimate effectiveness during the first 4-6 weeks.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on February 17, 2016, at 6:32:29
In reply to Re: Can AD's Cause Damage that is Irreversible, posted by SLS on February 15, 2016, at 17:38:44
Back to topic.
I will continue my conversation with Scott in my own thread.
@Threadstarter: Sorry for interrupting.
Posted by Scleme1 on February 18, 2016, at 11:02:02
In reply to Can AD's Cause Long-Term Damage that is Reversible, posted by babbler20 on February 8, 2016, at 15:15:36
Babbler - I'm curious to know what your experience was like when you first started to get insomnia. I am having a similar experience, and am curious if our symptoms are the same.
I started Paxil 20 years ago. Switched to Zoloft 200 mg/day about 5 years ago. Started getting a weird/excited feeling at bedtime that I just couldn't get past. Like butterflies in my stomach. Couldn't sleep without clonazepam to save my life. Ended up switching to Luvox a few months ago. Butterflies/insomnia went away. Now...they're back, and it's starting to freak me out. I've had a bit of a relapse with my anxiety/OCD of late due to some recent marital/life stress, so hoping that's a big part of it.
I do okay for the most part, but this insomnia is starting to wear me out. Scared it's the meds and I'm gonna have to come off.
Anyway, I'd like to hear your story and how things are going for you. Thanks.
Posted by Lamdage22 on February 19, 2016, at 8:43:50
In reply to Can AD's Cause Long-Term Damage that is Reversible, posted by babbler20 on February 8, 2016, at 15:15:36
You could try Trazodone for sleep. Its weight neutral and non-addictive.
Posted by Scleme1 on February 19, 2016, at 8:51:09
In reply to Trazodone Can AD's Cause Damage that is Irreversib, posted by Lamdage22 on February 19, 2016, at 8:43:50
I considered that. Would love to try Trazodone. Looks like Trazodone has a "severe interaction" warning when used with fluvoxamine, though. Haven't looked into it too closely, but I imagine there's a risk of serotonin syndrome.
Doc suggested doxepin or Belsomra. I'd prefer to find something like Trazodone that could be taken nightly without a dependence concern.
Posted by SLS on February 19, 2016, at 9:00:46
In reply to Re: Trazodone Can AD's Cause Damage that is Irreversib » Lamdage22, posted by Scleme1 on February 19, 2016, at 8:51:09
> I considered that. Would love to try Trazodone. Looks like Trazodone has a "severe interaction" warning when used with fluvoxamine, though. Haven't looked into it too closely, but I imagine there's a risk of serotonin syndrome.
>
> Doc suggested doxepin or Belsomra. I'd prefer to find something like Trazodone that could be taken nightly without a dependence concern.Doxepin is not addictive. It is a tricyclic antidepressant (TCA) with a high degree of antihistamine action. Remeron is similarly antihistaminic. Unfortunately, weight gain is often a problem.
I don't know enough about Belsomra to be sure about its potential for addiction. I know the current theory as to how it works, but the drug hasn't been around long enough to fully evaluate its clinical properties.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on February 19, 2016, at 10:05:59
In reply to Re: Trazodone Can AD's Cause Damage that is Irreversib » Scleme1, posted by SLS on February 19, 2016, at 9:00:46
> > I considered that. Would love to try Trazodone. Looks like Trazodone has a "severe interaction" warning when used with fluvoxamine, though. Haven't looked into it too closely, but I imagine there's a risk of serotonin syndrome.
> >
> > Doc suggested doxepin or Belsomra. I'd prefer to find something like Trazodone that could be taken nightly without a dependence concern.
>
> Doxepin is not addictive. It is a tricyclic antidepressant (TCA) with a high degree of antihistamine action. Remeron is similarly antihistaminic. Unfortunately, weight gain is often a problem.
>
> I don't know enough about Belsomra to be sure about its potential for addiction. I know the current theory as to how it works, but the drug hasn't been around long enough to fully evaluate its clinical properties.
>
>
> - ScottFriends,
Scott wrote,[...Doxepin is not addictive...].
That statement could seriously mislead you to take the drug thinking that there would be no withdrawal symptoms when stopped which is false. This drug like its class subjects has a severe withdrawal syndrome that could cause suicide in that state and the commission of murder.
That Mr. Hsiung allows Scott to post what could lead you to your death, (redacted by respondent).
But it is much worse than that. For whatever Scott promotes here, you could be seriously misled to believe that the drugs are safer than they really are, including thinking that this drug does not have a withdrawal syndrome as Scott says that the drug is not addictive.
Be advised that misinformation could cause your death from reading here. I have come here to warn you of the serious consequences to you or a loved one that you are drugging in collaboration with a psychiatrist. The psychiatrist here allows what could kill you to be posted here without him intervening. He says that he is doing what will be good in his thinking for this community as a whole and to trust him at that and that he prescribes to the Golden Rule. I do not think that going through the horrors of withdrawing from a drug is good for anyone and does not in my thinking make any community better or gooder or whatever Mr. Hsiung's fantasy he has in his mind to allow this to continue here.
Lou Pilder
Posted by babbler20 on February 20, 2016, at 17:03:08
In reply to Re: Can AD's Cause Long-Term Damage that is Reversible » babbler20, posted by Scleme1 on February 18, 2016, at 11:02:02
Hi, it sounds like your insomnia is not nearly as severe as mine since you are married. Nobody with insomnia would be able to get or stay married. I've been taking SSRI's for 23 years. 7 years ago I was on Celexa and Wellbutrin.I had been on both drugs for a long time. One day I just started waking up in the middle of the night and never being able to get more than 4 or 5 hours of total sleep per night. I haven't once been able to sleep more than about 5 hours a night in 7 years.
Posted by babbler20 on February 20, 2016, at 17:03:52
In reply to Trazodone Can AD's Cause Damage that is Irreversib, posted by Lamdage22 on February 19, 2016, at 8:43:50
Hi, I've tried it and it works for a couple days and then stops working :(
Posted by Scleme1 on February 20, 2016, at 17:42:52
In reply to Re: Can AD's Cause Long-Term Damage that is Reversible, posted by babbler20 on February 20, 2016, at 17:03:08
Yes, I am married. 16 years. I'm curious why you think you can't get married? Are you living a normal, productive life otherwise?
Posted by Phillipa on February 20, 2016, at 19:42:03
In reply to Lou's urgent warning-death by serotonin syndrome, posted by Lou Pilder on February 9, 2016, at 16:50:44
Lou since I am prescribed my meds at higher doses than I now take in no way is Scott advocating that I take higher doses of my meds. I chose to take lower doses. And no follow up questions I refuse to answer which is my right. Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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