![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by john locke on January 13, 2016, at 22:02:46
I know that it's usually a combo of genetics and environment. I am wondering in the broadest sense possible. As far as humans go, I feel like environment plays a much larger role in most cases because biologically we are so far off from how we are supposed to live. (i.e. being cavemen essentially). Do you think cavemen ever got depressed?
Posted by rjlockhart37 on January 13, 2016, at 22:25:27
In reply to Why does mental illness occur?, posted by john locke on January 13, 2016, at 22:02:46
when i was young i had a wierd way i saw things, i assumed things that where not true, and made my own little world on how to explain the world......and now that i look back that was not normal thinking, it ws more like a pseudo-delusion......im 28 now but i taught myself that it was close to mental illness, alot my earlier life i was considered strange, and i did strange things, like look at vacuum cleaners and antennas, and i would totally obsessed and i now look at that and just that's an embarrasment, i became self aware of it and realized that is not normal, and the people that said i was good at vacuums, they did it to be nice........and like i would get terribly depressed around 5pm when i was a child, i got intrested in random things that where not a social norm.....so, i've came somewhat out of it.......i think if the person is self aware of their mind states it can help.....but...
i think it does matter when someone is born with a abnormality in nuerotransmitters and sections of the mind acting diffrent, truama and anxiety disorders can be learned from the enviorment around them, sometimes schizophenia is more a genetic, internal cause, abnormality in sections of the brain
Posted by rjlockhart37 on January 13, 2016, at 22:54:42
In reply to Re: Why does mental illness occur?, posted by rjlockhart37 on January 13, 2016, at 22:25:27
https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/mentaldisorders.html
that's the US governments description of mental illness
but there's some people who have can cope and do things with depression, or anxiety, or schizophenia.....
i've progressed in insight, no therapist, no nothing, i just learned......from anyalsis of life events, and i hope and everyone else to grow too......
Posted by SLS on January 14, 2016, at 6:12:53
In reply to Why does mental illness occur?, posted by john locke on January 13, 2016, at 22:02:46
Normal depression can actually be advantageous to the individual. However, major depressive disorder (MDD) would not be.
Normal depression serves to prevent futile behavior that can only deplete the individual of energy and produce inordinate stress. When one becomes frustrated with repeated failures, depression subdues the individual and allows them to reflect on their failures and perhaps come up with a different strategy or quit altogether.
Abnormal depression (MDD) most likely arises from a combination of genetic and stress-driven epigenetic factors. So, basically, your understanding of genetics and environment is correct. Some illnesses are more genetic than others. Bipolar disorder and schizophrenia are examples of these.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on January 14, 2016, at 6:16:36
In reply to Re: Why does mental illness occur?, posted by rjlockhart37 on January 13, 2016, at 22:54:42
> https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/mentaldisorders.html
>
> that's the US governments description of mental illnessThanks, RJ.
- Scott
Posted by baseball55 on January 14, 2016, at 21:00:33
In reply to Why does mental illness occur?, posted by john locke on January 13, 2016, at 22:02:46
> I know that it's usually a combo of genetics and environment. I am wondering in the broadest sense possible. As far as humans go, I feel like environment plays a much larger role in most cases because biologically we are so far off from how we are supposed to live. (i.e. being cavemen essentially). Do you think cavemen ever got depressed?
Why are we "supposed to live" as cavemen? That was a phase in human evolution, one that passed. We live as we have evolved to live. We don't know much about cavemen, because at that stage humans had not evolved writing. Maybe they got depressed, committed suicide, had hallucinations. We don't know.
Personally, I get very annoyed with this new "paleo-diet" stuff. That eating as cavemen ate, with no grains or legumes, is natural for human beings, while the diet that has evolved with the advent of agriculture more than 10,000 years ago is not "natural."
The human race evolves. What we are now is what is natural from an evolutionary perspective. And today, I would say that mental illness is, as many psychiatrists put it, a bio-psycho-socio phenomenon - a complex interaction of biological tendencies, psychological history and behaviors and social background and environment. So, for example, a person with a biological tendency toward psychosis may behave and experience this differently if they also suffered psychological trauma and live in a chaotic environment than someone from/in a safe and loving environment.
But even this is only a "may." There are plenty of people from safe, loving environments who become delusional and unstable and lose everything.
For me, I suffer from depression and when I have become depressed in recent years, there is rarely any psycho or socio precipitant. I think it's mostly bio. But, when I become depressed, the thoughts and feelings depression engenders have roots in my upbringing and current social state. Many people, for example, are depressed but not suicidal. For me depression and suicidality are inseparable, probably because my grip on life is weak due to a traumatic upbringing.
Posted by rose45 on January 15, 2016, at 4:32:32
In reply to Re: Why does mental illness occur? » john locke, posted by SLS on January 14, 2016, at 6:12:53
> Normal depression can actually be advantageous to the individual. However, major depressive disorder (MDD) would not be.
>
> Normal depression serves to prevent futile behavior that can only deplete the individual of energy and produce inordinate stress. When one becomes frustrated with repeated failures, depression subdues the individual and allows them to reflect on their failures and perhaps come up with a different strategy or quit altogether.
>
> Abnormal depression (MDD) most likely arises from a combination of genetic and stress-driven epigenetic factors. So, basically, your understanding of genetics and environment is correct. Some illnesses are more genetic than others. Bipolar disorder and schizophrenia are examples of these.
>
>
> - ScottWell put, Scott. I agree with you entirely. Unfortunately, the general public is not educated to know the difference, which in fact is huge. Which is why people like us, with major depression, usually do not get much sympathy from many friends and family, who think we are depressed in the way they are. In many cases, I think they dont have a clue how much we are suffering.
Posted by john locke on January 16, 2016, at 15:39:17
In reply to Re: Why does mental illness occur?, posted by baseball55 on January 14, 2016, at 21:00:33
> > I know that it's usually a combo of genetics and environment. I am wondering in the broadest sense possible. As far as humans go, I feel like environment plays a much larger role in most cases because biologically we are so far off from how we are supposed to live. (i.e. being cavemen essentially). Do you think cavemen ever got depressed?
>
> Why are we "supposed to live" as cavemen? That was a phase in human evolution, one that passed. We live as we have evolved to live. We don't know much about cavemen, because at that stage humans had not evolved writing. Maybe they got depressed, committed suicide, had hallucinations. We don't know.
>
> Personally, I get very annoyed with this new "paleo-diet" stuff. That eating as cavemen ate, with no grains or legumes, is natural for human beings, while the diet that has evolved with the advent of agriculture more than 10,000 years ago is not "natural."
>
> The human race evolves. What we are now is what is natural from an evolutionary perspective. And today, I would say that mental illness is, as many psychiatrists put it, a bio-psycho-socio phenomenon - a complex interaction of biological tendencies, psychological history and behaviors and social background and environment. So, for example, a person with a biological tendency toward psychosis may behave and experience this differently if they also suffered psychological trauma and live in a chaotic environment than someone from/in a safe and loving environment.
>
> But even this is only a "may." There are plenty of people from safe, loving environments who become delusional and unstable and lose everything.
>
> For me, I suffer from depression and when I have become depressed in recent years, there is rarely any psycho or socio precipitant. I think it's mostly bio. But, when I become depressed, the thoughts and feelings depression engenders have roots in my upbringing and current social state. Many people, for example, are depressed but not suicidal. For me depression and suicidality are inseparable, probably because my grip on life is weak due to a traumatic upbringing.It is my understanding that, from an evolutionary perspective, our bodies are still wired to live as cavemen did. Relatively, humans went from being hunter-gatherers to the agricultural revolution very very recently. Think about all the things that cavemen had to do in order to survive which we do not necessarily have to do now. Exercise and constant social interaction being the big two...these two things are the best natural anti-depressants and anti-anxiety things out there probably. Also, it has been found that being in nature is pretty much the same thing as meditating as far as the anti-anxiety aspect goes. Living amongst right angles and flat surfaces really is not natural for our brains just yet.
Posted by SLS on January 16, 2016, at 17:38:30
In reply to Re: Why does mental illness occur?, posted by john locke on January 16, 2016, at 15:39:17
> It is my understanding that, from an evolutionary perspective, our bodies are still wired to live as cavemen did. Relatively, humans went from being hunter-gatherers to the agricultural revolution very very recently. Think about all the things that cavemen had to do in order to survive which we do not necessarily have to do now. Exercise and constant social interaction being the big two...these two things are the best natural anti-depressants and anti-anxiety things out there probably. Also, it has been found that being in nature is pretty much the same thing as meditating as far as the anti-anxiety aspect goes. Living amongst right angles and flat surfaces really is not natural for our brains just yet.
This makes a lot of sense.
- Scott
Posted by elanor roosevelt on January 17, 2016, at 19:05:03
In reply to Re: Why does mental illness occur?, posted by rose45 on January 15, 2016, at 4:32:32
I was born right into my illness
My Dad
His Aunt
all bonkers
Posted by paulb on January 24, 2016, at 11:56:15
In reply to Why does mental illness occur?, posted by john locke on January 13, 2016, at 22:02:46
From what I have read and my own experience mental illness can be trigered by many things
-Childhood or teenage year trauma
-Drug abuse
-Poor genetics and im not saying a persons weak but just that they are more vulnurableOf course there are many many reasons as to why a mental illness can occur and who knows if the medical industry and has really found all the causes or main reasons why it can occur but coming down to a diagnosis you can specify what may cause that particular disorder i.e. some people claim Asperger's Disorder is to do with our diet and an intolerance to gluten and casein. Its a wide and broad area of topic of discussion here you found and a good question too.PB
Posted by Alias45 on February 16, 2016, at 11:37:17
In reply to Re: Why does mental illness occur?, posted by baseball55 on January 14, 2016, at 21:00:33
There are MANY reasons, but as its gonna take too long ill post just one:
Environmental pollutants, BPA, the stuff they make plastic from is highly toxic and we as humans are exposed to toxic levels, and that means just adults, there are many more environmental toxins that are safe in the ammounts we are exposed too in a libratory setting BUT they can cause slight problems such as with the thyroid etc, that said we are exposed to thousands of toxins and its completely unknown wheter a non toxic amount of one gets toxic in combination with a dozen other ones.
That said BPA plays with our epigenetics so much theres reason for high concern AND the amount of toxins we give off in breastfeed is far too much for a baby.
Now take in mind guys, im not a all natural hippy, for example Im a big fan of aspartame and MSG but proven numerous times to be non toxic in the ammounts we are exposed too, in fact MSG breaks down in glutamate a natural chemical in the body and no it doesn't increase it to toxic levels, aspartame is made of 2 amino acits, true it has menthol or whatever its called too but theres no way to drink enough of that for it too reach toxic levels.
Thank you sugar industry scaring ppl away from aspartame (high sugar is another issue with regards to mental health) you diverted focus from true toxins like BPA.
Ill have more to say on this later.
Posted by Escapee on February 21, 2016, at 3:59:50
In reply to Re: Why does mental illness occur?, posted by Alias45 on February 16, 2016, at 11:37:17
Because the worlds going too fast for us to keep up with. Thats often how i feel.
Posted by SLS on February 21, 2016, at 4:24:45
In reply to Re: Why does mental illness occur?, posted by Escapee on February 21, 2016, at 3:59:50
> Because the worlds going too fast for us to keep up with.
This must certainly contribute to the high rate of depression and anxiety disorders in the USA.
- Scott
Posted by Glenn on February 22, 2016, at 10:01:59
In reply to Re: Why does mental illness occur? » Escapee, posted by SLS on February 21, 2016, at 4:24:45
An interesting question which I have thought about for the last 10 years.
All the above answers seem valid so I'll just add my bit.
Stress seems to be a key factor in mental illness, apart perhaps from in those who appear to be strongly genetically predisposed.
What is stress ? well basically it is whatever sets off an individuals stress response and that can vary a lot from individual to individual.
The direction that stress takes probably is genetically determined, some will have heart attacks, some strokes and so on.
Individual "resistance" to stress also varies.If I look back I can see clearly that over thinking and worry, massive rejection sensitivity and shyness were early sighs of what might happen given " enough" stress.
And boy oh boy it did !I am one of those people for whom an SSRI had definite personality effects.
For example my rejection sensitivity may well now have gone the other way, unfortunately.
However that is a lot better then only being able to lie on my sofa all day in a state of terror, dreading things such as the phone ringing or the postman delivering a letter.
G xx
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.