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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by legm82 on June 3, 2015, at 15:44:24
In reply to Re: Geodon vs Zyprexa for Insomnia and Depression, posted by Christ_empowered on June 3, 2015, at 15:35:58
> Geodon can be sedating at first, but also activating, so...I'd say a lil zyprexa at night time, personally.
Hello Christ_empowered,
Thanks for your reply, how much Zyprexa would you consider to be Ok?
Posted by Christ_empowered on June 3, 2015, at 16:18:39
In reply to Re: Geodon vs Zyprexa for Insomnia and Depression » Christ_empowered, posted by legm82 on June 3, 2015, at 15:44:24
I'm not a doc..."start low, go slow..." look for the minimum dose you can use. I think zyprexa comes in 2.5mgs tablets.
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 3, 2015, at 16:36:44
In reply to Geodon vs Zyprexa for Insomnia and Depression, posted by legm82 on June 3, 2015, at 14:47:24
> Hello.
> I would like to ask for your experiences about which medication would you say works better for Insomnia and for Depression.
> Im currently taking Paroxetine 40mg and Mirtazapine 30mg, my diagnoses are Bipolar Depression, OCD and Insomnia.
> Thanks in advance for your replies.Friends,
Beware of false doctors. They could come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly they could be ravening wolves.
You see, the two drugs the poster lists together could cause death. Death by serotonin syndrome. And if any of the two other drugs are added, a confused state could be induced where one could be killed by accident. The drugs could be addictive and taken together the adverse effects are increased exponentially. Suicide could be a result of taking this concoction of death.
Let us look into a hypothetical conversation with a hypothetical psychiatrist and client, DR. Quackenbush and the client, Helen Weilz
Dr. Quackenbush: I want you to take the two drugs and Zyprexa. Here is a prescription.
Helen Weilz: I just read from the Lou guy on a web site run by a psychiatrist that taking the two drugs together could cause death by serotonin syndrome. Is he right?
Dr. Quackenbush: He is right, but so what? You could be part of 1000 swimmers trying to swim across an alligator infested river. Some will make it.
Helen Weilz: But what about those that are killed by the alligators?
Dr. Quackenbush: It will be good for the community as a whole to have some make it and the ones eaten by the alligators will be out of the community's problems being dead. Then we could have an improved community without them. The community will benefit by having less people to care for.
Helen Weilz: Do really think that I am an idiot?
Dr. Quackenbush: People who are depressed have a more difficult time making decisions. People that come to me put their trust in me in that I am doing what will be good for the community as a whole.
Helen Weilz: Havn't those in the past used that type of thinking to justify slavery?
Dr. Quackenbush: They were right. Slavery was good for the community as a whole. Psychiatry is good for the community as a whole. You see, with 1000's of people being killed each year by the drugs that we give, there will be less people getting Social Security payments and the community will be improved because the country will have less debt and our currency will be more valued.
Helen Weilz: You sound like a mad-man
Dr. Quackenbush: You can see through this but go back to that site where this Lou guy is and see all of those that have died from the drugs, committed suicide and have life-ruining conditions and addictions. They are easily persuaded and have put their trust in the psychiatrist that runs the site and believe that he is doing what will be good for that community as a whole.
Helen Weilz:
How many people that you have treated have been killed by the drugs or killed themselves or have addictions or life-ruing conditions?
Dr. Quackenbush: That's private.
Lou
Posted by legm82 on June 3, 2015, at 16:44:50
In reply to Lou's response-Dr. Quackenbush » legm82, posted by Lou Pilder on June 3, 2015, at 16:36:44
Dear Lou,
Thanks for your response.
I've been taking these two drugs Paroxetine and Mirtazapine together for almost 9 years. I know that we all have to be carefull about Serotonin Syndrome. But Paroxetine is a SSRI and acts on the pre-synapse, in the other hand Mirtazapine is a NaSSA that acts on the post-synapse. That's the reason it is not likely to occur a Serotonin Syndrome.
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 3, 2015, at 17:00:51
In reply to Re: Lou's response-Dr. Quackenbush » Lou Pilder, posted by legm82 on June 3, 2015, at 16:44:50
> Dear Lou,
> Thanks for your response.
> I've been taking these two drugs Paroxetine and Mirtazapine together for almost 9 years. I know that we all have to be carefull about Serotonin Syndrome. But Paroxetine is a SSRI and acts on the pre-synapse, in the other hand Mirtazapine is a NaSSA that acts on the post-synapse. That's the reason it is not likely to occur a Serotonin Syndrome.legm82,
You wrote that the two drugs taken together that it is not likely for serotonin syndrome to occur.
Serotonin syndrome can occur with the two drugs taken together. And worse, the longer you take them together, the more likely that life-ruining conditions, addiction and/or death could occur. After nine years, you could be in the red-zone. But do not stop the drugs unless you have a plan that could get you through any withdrawal that could occur. I am prevented from posting a way that one could withdrawal from these drugs due to the prohibitions posted to me here by Mr. Hsiung. And many kill themselves during withdrawal.
The way to life for those that want to be unshackled and delivered from the bondage of addicting drugs that has been revealed to me is from a Jewish perspective that is prohibited for me to post here by Mr. Hsiung.
Lou
Posted by legm82 on June 3, 2015, at 18:09:00
In reply to Lou's reply-rhdzoen » legm82, posted by Lou Pilder on June 3, 2015, at 17:00:51
Please, this thread is about Geodon and Zyprexa, which one of those would you recommend based on your experiences.
Thanks in advance for your replies.
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 3, 2015, at 19:20:04
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-rhdzoen » Lou Pilder, posted by legm82 on June 3, 2015, at 18:09:00
> Please, this thread is about Geodon and Zyprexa, which one of those would you recommend based on your experiences.
>
> Thanks in advance for your replies.legm82,
You are asking about taking Zyprexa or Geodon, but you also list that you take Paxil and Remeron.
You see, each drug by itself could cause death or suicidal thinking and could cause addiction. And when they are taken together, the suicidal thinking could be increased exponentially. And when you are wanting to add even another drug, be it Zyprexa or Geodon, it can become worse for you by the fact that by adding the drug death and suicidal ideation could be increased exponentially even more so.
So when any readers tell you to choose one or the other, could not either one of the drugs cause you to kill yourself as suicidal ideation could be increased exponentially?
Look at the members here that have killed themselves or were killed by the drugs. Look at the combinations of drugs that they took. And look at other members advocating to take the drugs that killed them.For if the facts are known, then I think that your life could be saved, you could avoid life-ruining conditions and addictions and not be killed by the drugs. I want responders to you to know the facts before they tell you to choose one over the other. This way, if you are killed by the drugs or by the drugs inducing a mind-altered state to have you kill your self, your blood will not be upon me.
Lou
Posted by legm82 on June 3, 2015, at 19:27:58
In reply to Re: Geodon vs Zyprexa for Insomnia and Depression, posted by Christ_empowered on June 3, 2015, at 16:18:39
> I'm not a doc..."start low, go slow..." look for the minimum dose you can use. I think zyprexa comes in 2.5mgs tablets.
Hello, hace you tried Geodon and also Zyprexa? Do you know if Geodon has AD properties?
Posted by Christ_empowered on June 3, 2015, at 19:29:20
In reply to Re: Geodon vs Zyprexa for Insomnia and Depression » Christ_empowered, posted by legm82 on June 3, 2015, at 19:27:58
never tried Geodon because of the cardio stuff, but its supposed to have AD properties. I wanna say its kinda sorta like Tofranil, but I could be wrong.
I tried Zyprexa, and 5mgs triggered akathisia :-( Sad times. I'm now on Abilify.
Posted by legm82 on June 3, 2015, at 19:46:47
In reply to Re: Geodon vs Zyprexa for Insomnia and Depression, posted by Christ_empowered on June 3, 2015, at 19:29:20
> never tried Geodon because of the cardio stuff, but its supposed to have AD properties. I wanna say its kinda sorta like Tofranil, but I could be wrong.
>
> I tried Zyprexa, and 5mgs triggered akathisia :-( Sad times. I'm now on Abilify.Really? Akathisia with Zyprexa? Hmmm.. I see. I had Akathisia with Seroquel and with Abilify.
When you say about Geodon and the cardio stuff, you mean the arritmias? Is it so bad not to give it a try?
Posted by Christ_empowered on June 3, 2015, at 21:03:47
In reply to Re: Geodon vs Zyprexa for Insomnia and Depression » Christ_empowered, posted by legm82 on June 3, 2015, at 19:46:47
Lots of people take Geodon w/o any problems at all. I think somebody told me it has 5% of the atypical market, so clearly lots of people take it, and most of them have 0 problems with it. I'm just...weird. It was the cardio thing and also the 2x daily dosing, now that I think about it. I like my meds 1x daily, when possible.
Anyway, some people really like Geodon. It doesn't cause weight gain (no, really) and it can elevate mood along with typical tranquilizer stuff--anti-manic, anti-agitation, anti-psychotic, etc--so it may very well be a good option.
I'm just prone to akathisia. For whatever reason, the Abilify D2 partial agonism is what I need so I can take a (much needed) tranquilizer and not twitch and get nervous. Other people...the opposite is true; Abilify makes them agitated and twitchy and older atypicals don't.
If your doc recommended Geodon as an option, I'd say think about it. Physically, I think its probably safer than Zyprexa, since zyprexa can cause massive weight gain and metabolic problems. I don't know about the tardive dyskinesia risk, honestly. I would hope Geodon is relatively low risk, but I have no clue. Zyprexa has been researched fairly well and its safer than a lot of drugs, except maybe clozapine and Seroquel.
Good luck!
Posted by 10derheart on June 3, 2015, at 21:31:39
In reply to Lou's response-Dr. Quackenbush » legm82, posted by Lou Pilder on June 3, 2015, at 16:36:44
Posted by rjlockhart37 on June 4, 2015, at 0:31:09
In reply to Geodon vs Zyprexa for Insomnia and Depression, posted by legm82 on June 3, 2015, at 14:47:24
zyprexa.......
all the way
Posted by rjlockhart37 on June 4, 2015, at 0:33:38
In reply to Re: Geodon vs Zyprexa for Insomnia and Depression » Christ_empowered, posted by legm82 on June 3, 2015, at 19:27:58
i've been on geodon at high dose, zyprexa is more sedating, but it does have some improvement on mood, but your kinda in calm state and can't get really manic excited.....
zyprexa has been my night med for years.....but it lasts till the next day.....and it can cause some sedation, but red flag on zyprexa is weight gain, espcially at doses over 10mg
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 4, 2015, at 4:55:49
In reply to Re: Geodon vs Zyprexa for Insomnia and Depression, posted by rjlockhart37 on June 4, 2015, at 0:33:38
If you are not psychotic i would stay away from APs.
In fact, even if you are psychotic, in most cases, i would stay away from APs.
Why not take Neurontin or Lyrica?
Or at least a sedating low potency AP.
Its unlikely that any of these drugs will help your depression!
Posted by legm82 on June 4, 2015, at 17:51:46
In reply to Re: Geodon vs Zyprexa for Insomnia and Depression, posted by rjlockhart37 on June 4, 2015, at 0:33:38
> i've been on geodon at high dose, zyprexa is more sedating, but it does have some improvement on mood, but your kinda in calm state and can't get really manic excited.....
>
> zyprexa has been my night med for years.....but it lasts till the next day.....and it can cause some sedation, but red flag on zyprexa is weight gain, espcially at doses over 10mg
>
>How much Geodon have you been on? Remember that Geodon is kind of expensive I don't know if it's more expensive than Zyprexa. Here in my country we don't have gerenics for neither of both. I could afford a maximum of 80mg Geodon taken at night and that's it. I don't know if that would be enough for manteinance treatment.
In the other hand Zyprexa I wouldn't like to take no more than 7.5mg because of the weight gain.
Posted by rjlockhart37 on June 4, 2015, at 20:27:55
In reply to Re: Geodon vs Zyprexa for Insomnia and Depression » rjlockhart37, posted by legm82 on June 4, 2015, at 17:51:46
about 6 years ago i was on 160mg of geodon and 10mg zyprexa, because of a paranoia, thinking people where working for this new goverment change.....but geodon is not really sedating, zyprexa is good for anxiety because of it's calming effect, zyprexa has been my drug at night for a long time, it works slightly like a tranquilzer, but it's sedation causes lethargy and weight gain, but it is a good medication......and you know people are differnt so you know some side effects are diffrent than people, maybe there won't be any weight gain at all, but it is sedating.....yet it does help the mood.....
i mean, zyprexa could be a good choice, it's just known for causing weight gain.....but it's differnt on other people, just take it and go to the gym everyday...lol keep the weight off
geodon....by itself, it brings you back down to earth, zyprexa is more for emergency manic treatment in psych hospitals......and it tended not used as much as a daily medication because of it's effects on weight and sedation....
Posted by Zyprexa on June 5, 2015, at 1:59:54
In reply to Geodon vs Zyprexa for Insomnia and Depression, posted by legm82 on June 3, 2015, at 14:47:24
Zyprexa will work best for insomnia. You will still need an AD for the depression.
Posted by legm82 on June 5, 2015, at 9:41:55
In reply to Re: Geodon vs Zyprexa for Insomnia and Depression, posted by Zyprexa on June 5, 2015, at 1:59:54
> Zyprexa will work best for insomnia. You will still need an AD for the depression.
If you add an AD for depression, there's no risk to go hipo maniac?
I'm currently taking 2 ADs Paxil and Remeron.P.S. When I take Zyprexa 5mg I have asthma, is that a normal reaction?
Posted by legm82 on June 5, 2015, at 13:43:15
In reply to Re: Geodon vs Zyprexa for Insomnia and Depression, posted by Zyprexa on June 5, 2015, at 1:59:54
> Zyprexa will work best for insomnia. You will still need an AD for the depression.
If I'm currently taking two antidepressants Paxil and Remeron, do I need to add another one like Prozac?
There are some studies that show evidence about Zyprexa working for Bipolar Depression, do you agree with them, or you think it's necessary to addition an AD?
Would you replace the Remeron(mirtazapine) for the Zyprexa?
PS. I know we are not pdocs, but it's interesting to make hypothetical comments about medication choices based upon our experiences and knowledge.
Posted by Christ_empowered on June 5, 2015, at 21:31:17
In reply to Re: Geodon vs Zyprexa for Insomnia and Depression » Zyprexa, posted by legm82 on June 5, 2015, at 13:43:15
remeron+zyprexa seems like you'd be very sedated. and gain a lot of weight, too.
They make a combo pill, prozac and zyprexa in one. Here in the US, its called Symbyax. The lower doses I think are more for severe depression and the higher doses more for bipolar and the psychotic disorders. Could be wrong.
Posted by legm82 on June 5, 2015, at 22:26:56
In reply to Re: Geodon vs Zyprexa for Insomnia and Depression, posted by Christ_empowered on June 5, 2015, at 21:31:17
> remeron+zyprexa seems like you'd be very sedated. and gain a lot of weight, too.
>
> They make a combo pill, prozac and zyprexa in one. Here in the US, its called Symbyax. The lower doses I think are more for severe depression and the higher doses more for bipolar and the psychotic disorders. Could be wrong.
>
>I'm currently taking Paxil and Remeron, if I take Zyprexa, would you addition another AD like Prozac?
Maybe it would be too much ADs ..
Posted by rjlockhart37 on June 5, 2015, at 23:41:40
In reply to Re: Geodon vs Zyprexa for Insomnia and Depression » Christ_empowered, posted by legm82 on June 5, 2015, at 22:26:56
i don't think you can combine prozac with paxil, i know remeron and others, but they are similar paraxetine and fluoxetine can't be mixed.... cause sero syndrome....
i take prozac and zyprexa, 20mg at night......it has worked moderately well with depression, but weight gain is always been known for zyprexa.....
Posted by rjlockhart37 on June 5, 2015, at 23:46:21
In reply to Re: Geodon vs Zyprexa for Insomnia and Depression » Christ_empowered, posted by legm82 on June 5, 2015, at 22:26:56
ask you doctor to start you on it, take it for a while and see if it's effects are good for you, maybe post about it and see how your doing
Posted by Zyprexa on June 9, 2015, at 5:35:41
In reply to Re: Geodon vs Zyprexa for Insomnia and Depression » Zyprexa, posted by legm82 on June 5, 2015, at 13:43:15
If you are already taking an AD, I don't think you will need anouther one. The zyprexa could replace the remeron, because of sedating aspects. I have schizoaffective disorder, bipolar with psychotic features. I think zyprexa would help with bipolar disorder. It has mood stabilizing properties.
I tried remeron, and it didn't replace zyprexa. But made me as tired as zyprexa. I take sertraline, zyprexa and perphenazine, plus bupropion for energy.
Yes I think zyprexa is good for bipolar.
This is the end of the thread.
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