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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Danielj on June 3, 2015, at 12:14:33
My son is 27 has been taking Zyprexa for 11 years. His pdoc has switched him to other meds
over the years but none of them has been successful for long. His Diag. is schizo affective.Among those and the effects they caused him are listed:
1. Abilify - Caused him to be paranoid. Quitting it for about 2 weeks got rid of the paranoia.
2. Invega and Risperdal - Helped with symptoms but caused suicidal ideations.
3. Latuda - Caused him to be hyperactive mostly with constant walking but also bicycle riding
(he doesn't drive). He was awake almost 24/7 on the higher dose. Flat affect minimal interaction.4. Saphris - Improvement on the lower dosage but deterioration upon increased dosage.
Positive effects were only temporary.5. Zyprexa - His main medication along with 50 mg Zoloft. He finished the last 3 years of high school
and got a 2 yr associate degree with enough science and math credit to continue towards a BS degree
majoring in math and science. Then suddenly the medication seemed to lose some effectivity.
It was summer break and 3 years later (now) it still is. He has his own apartment but can't work so he's
on the dole. His pdoc now has him on 20 mg Zyprexa at 8 pm and 5mg at 11 am with 50 mg Zoloft at
11 am also.
Last night while visiting us he had a breakthru as he sometimes does in the late afternoon. He paces,
talks to himself. flings his arms around, covers his eyes, eventually cries in frustration because of his
hallucinations and this time it lasted about 3 hours. He seemed fine all day but at about 5:30 this started.
It's about the 5th or 6th time this happened. I am not sure what is going on?
Posted by Christ_empowered on June 3, 2015, at 13:09:17
In reply to Zyprexa addiction? boomerang effect?, posted by Danielj on June 3, 2015, at 12:14:33
hi. Sometimes, the brain adapts to tranquilizers (or anything else, really). Some people end up taking higher doses of neuroleptic than what they started with.
Zyprexa is kind of unique. I've heard stories of people on it who go through Hell trying to get off it, and then find that other meds just don't work as well, if at all. I don't think there's much research on this sort of thing, so I can't point you towards anything like that, but...
long term Antipsychotic use can lead to a "rebound psychosis" upon discontinuation, even if the person wasn't psychotic to begin with. Something to do with dopamine type 2 receptors. Zyprexa has a broad range of effects on the brain and your son was on it for quite a while, so...my best, un-educated, completely amateur guess would be that the zyprexa caused lasting changes in parts of his brain that other antipsychotics just aren't dealing with.
Has the prescriber given anything to ease the cross over? Like, Ativan, Neurontin, even hydroxyzine?
Hope this works out for y'all.
Posted by Zyprexa on June 5, 2015, at 1:53:09
In reply to Zyprexa addiction? boomerang effect?, posted by Danielj on June 3, 2015, at 12:14:33
Your son seems to have a lot im similar with me mentaly. I took abilify about 7 years ago, before that I only needed 10mg zyprexa, after 6 months on abilify I suddenly needed more zyprexa, about 20mg for the same effect. The abilify did something to my brain which has not gone away.
I also take 3 doses a day with the zyprexa now, 6 hours apart from each other. I cut a 20 mg pill in 3. I also found that the fresher the zyprexa the better it works. Best within first 3 months. Anouther thing I found is that its best to stick with one particular generic manufacturer. Which ever one works best. For me its Teva. Your doc can put a note on script to get that.
I think it would work better for your son if he didn't take it all at 8pm. Maybe cut the pill in half and take 3 doses.
Anouther thing I have found is taking perphenazine with zyprexa is helping since abilify. Maybe it would help to add a second AP. Currently I am stable at 20mg zyprexa and 24mg perphenazine. Recently I have also found that the zyprexa is working better too. I have days where I don't need the whole 20mg.
I don't think its addiction to zyprexa. Some APs work better for some and not others. I took risperdal before zyprexa and it had no effect on my psychosis. Then I took one pill of zyprexa and instantly felt better. I improved instantly and it has worked ever since. I since have tried geodon and abilify which made me worse like the risperdal did.
Posted by Zyprexa on June 5, 2015, at 1:57:21
In reply to Zyprexa addiction? boomerang effect?, posted by Danielj on June 3, 2015, at 12:14:33
I also can go off zyprexa without problems, except for my mental status.
Posted by SLS on June 5, 2015, at 7:56:45
In reply to Re: Zyprexa addiction? boomerang effect?, posted by Zyprexa on June 5, 2015, at 1:57:21
> I also can go off zyprexa without problems, except for my mental status.
I had a bad experience with Saphis, but I have seen it work wonders with shizoaffective disorder. It mitigated both paranoia and depression in a friend of mine. She had already been taking Navane (thiothixene) for the paranoid schizoid symptoms. Saphris further stabilized the mania and produced a robust antidepressant effect and cleared her thinking. I'll report further if she successfully discontinues the Navane ahould that be her decision. For now, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. She has lost 30 pounds on this regime. In the ten years that I have known her, she has never looked or acted so well.
- Scott
Posted by Christ_empowered on June 5, 2015, at 13:02:46
In reply to Re: Zyprexa addiction? boomerang effect?, posted by Zyprexa on June 5, 2015, at 1:57:21
has you son ever been on a mood stabilizer? Sometimes that can help with remaining symptoms. Personally, I'd go for Lamictal or Trileptal if you choose this route, but...I'm not a doc, clearly.
Posted by Danielj on June 6, 2015, at 10:33:37
In reply to Re: Zyprexa addiction? boomerang effect?, posted by Christ_empowered on June 3, 2015, at 13:09:17
> hi. Sometimes, the brain adapts to tranquilizers (or anything else, really). Some people end up taking higher doses of neuroleptic than what they started with.
>
> Zyprexa is kind of unique. I've heard stories of people on it who go through Hell trying to get off it, and then find that other meds just don't work as well, if at all. I don't think there's much research on this sort of thing, so I can't point you towards anything like that, but...
>
> long term Antipsychotic use can lead to a "rebound psychosis" upon discontinuation, even if the person wasn't psychotic to begin with. Something to do with dopamine type 2 receptors. Zyprexa has a broad range of effects on the brain and your son was on it for quite a while, so...my best, un-educated, completely amateur guess would be that the zyprexa caused lasting changes in parts of his brain that other antipsychotics just aren't dealing with.
>
> Has the prescriber given anything to ease the cross over? Like, Ativan, Neurontin, even hydroxyzine?
>
> Hope this works out for y'all.Thanks C E we will consider Benzos to relieve the situation.
Posted by Danielj on June 6, 2015, at 10:51:48
In reply to Re: Zyprexa addiction? boomerang effect?, posted by Zyprexa on June 5, 2015, at 1:57:21
This is in response to Zyprexa. Yes we agree Zyprexa has to be considered as the major medication
for schizo effective and schizophrenia in general. For long term relief and treatment it is the only one
that works. Haldol works also but has EPS and Dyskinesia side effects. I have to specify that I can
only say this with regard to my son. We will consider your suggestions and see what develops.
One more question, have you taken Wellbutrin? My son took it for a short time and it had positive effects.
Posted by Zyprexa on June 9, 2015, at 5:47:21
In reply to Re: Zyprexa addiction? boomerang effect?, posted by Danielj on June 6, 2015, at 10:51:48
I have been taking wellbutrin sr for 12 years. It seems to help. makes me less tired and less depression. Does make me a little anxious though. I currently take 200mg.
I've tired many other APs to replace zyprexa... All of them made me worse. And never replaced the zyprexa. Perphenazine was the only one that worked in addition to zyprexa. But didn't replace it. My advice is not to try getting rid of zyprexa! I tried risperdal, abilify and geodon all three made my syptoms worse, even though I was still on zyprexa, except for the risperdal(being on zyprexa at the same time). I was on lower doses of zyprexa at the times.
Mood stabilizers did not help me. I tried depakote and lamictal.
This is the end of the thread.
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