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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 28. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on January 18, 2015, at 17:40:26
There aren't many herbal treatments for depression which have received as much study as St. John's Wort. One which has attracted more scientific attention than most is saffron (Crocus sativus), but I don't hear it discussed much so I decided to bring it up on the board. The usual dose appears to be 15mg of extract twice a day. Saffron extracts have been effective in human clinical studies, and are active in animal models of depression too. Depressive symptoms associated with premenstrual syndrome were also reduced in one study. Saffron has additionally shown preliminary efficacy in animals models of OCD.
Saffron capsules for the treatment of depression:
Journal of Human Psychopharmacology - Saffron (Crocus sativus) for depression: a systematic review of clinical studies and examination of underlying antidepressant mechanisms of action.
'In the systematic review, six studies were identified. In the placebo-comparison trials, saffron had large treatment effects and, when compared with antidepressant medications, had similar antidepressant efficacy. Saffron's antidepressant effects potentially are due to its serotonergic, antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, neuro-endocrine and neuroprotective effects.' (The antidepressants saffron has been compared to are Prozac and imipramine).
Crocin, one of the constituents of saffron, has been tried (with apparent success) as an add-on to SSRIs in the treatment of depression.
Patients were given standard doses of Celexa, Zoloft or Prozac plus either placebo or crocin extract.
'The crocin group showed significantly improved scores on the BDI (Beck Depression Inventory), BAI (Beck Anxiety Inventory) and the GHQ (General Health Questionnaire) compared to the placebo group (P value < 0.0001). The average decreases in the BDI, BAI and GHQ scores in the placebo group were 6.15, 2.6 and 10.3 respectively, whereas the values in the crocin group were 17.6, 12.7 and 17.2 at the end of the 4 week trial.'
.............................................
Saffron in combination with SSRIs to relieve sexual dysfunction:
In men...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22552758
...it appears to improve erectile function in those experiencing sexual dysfunction on Prozac.... 'By week 4, saffron resulted in significantly greater improvement in erectile function, intercourse satisfaction and total scores than the placebo group'. It did not increase libido or facilitate orgasm.
In women experiencing sexual problems on Prozac...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23280545
'At the end of the fourth week, patients in the saffron group had experienced significantly more improvement in total FSFI (p < 0.001), arousal (p = 0.028), lubrication (p = 0.035), and pain (p = 0.016) domains of FSFI but not in desire, satisfaction or orgasm domains.
.......................
For those interested in the recent study of ketamine in the treatment of depression, saffron extracts may be of interest.
In one study, 'Saffron extracts and crocetin had a clear binding capacity at the PCP binding side of the NMDA receptor and at the sigma(1) receptor'.
In addition, crocin, one of the active constituents of saffron, counteracts ketamine-induced behavioural deficits in rats.
Posted by Phillipa on January 19, 2015, at 9:19:05
In reply to Saffron for depression (and sex) - interesting, posted by ed_uk2010 on January 18, 2015, at 17:40:26
Ed just so you know I did read the article on saffron. PJ
Posted by ed_uk2010 on January 19, 2015, at 13:22:18
In reply to Re: Saffron for depression (and sex) - interesting » ed_uk2010, posted by Phillipa on January 19, 2015, at 9:19:05
I mainly found three things interesting:
1. Saffron appears to have an antidepressant effect on its own - and a suitable dose is known.
2. It is apparently safe to combine with SSRIs and improves their effectiveness against depression and associated anxiety.
3. It reduces certain types of sexual dysfunction in pts treated with SSRIs, both in men and in women.
Posted by Phillipa on January 19, 2015, at 19:36:42
In reply to Re: Saffron for depression (and sex) - interesting » Phillipa, posted by ed_uk2010 on January 19, 2015, at 13:22:18
Real life friend went to high school with her husband is a pdoc and working his practice in Jacksonville, Florida, He's turning away from medications and utilizing a lot of vitamins and herbs. Is the same beginning to happen there? PJ
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 20, 2015, at 8:47:57
In reply to Saffron for depression (and sex) - interesting, posted by ed_uk2010 on January 18, 2015, at 17:40:26
Thanks, ed.
Any studies about safety?
Posted by ed_uk2010 on January 20, 2015, at 8:59:21
In reply to Re: Saffron for depression (and sex) - interesting, posted by Lamdage22 on January 20, 2015, at 8:47:57
>Any studies about safety?
I couldn't find any studies specifically about safety, but the clinical trials performed so far haven't reported any serious side effects. Of course, saffron is widely used as a culinary spice in some parts of the world, and appears to be safe in the small quantities used. Very large doses are toxic, but these are far in excess of the small amounts used in food or supplements.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on January 20, 2015, at 9:02:09
In reply to Re: Saffron for depression (and sex) - interesting » ed_uk2010, posted by Phillipa on January 19, 2015, at 19:36:42
>Real life friend went to high school with her husband is a pdoc and working his practice in Jacksonville, Florida, He's turning away from medications and utilizing a lot of vitamins and herbs. Is the same beginning to happen there? PJ
I wouldn't say many pdocs are turning away from medication. Of course, many have a lot of patients who are not satisfied with the results. The amount of psychotherapy on offer is normally minimal. Pdocs have far too many patients for that to be possible, and many are probably no longer used to doing much therapy.
Few supplements are prescribed by psychiatrists. A few use recommend omega-3 fish oils to be taken alongside meds for depression and schizophrenia.
Posted by SLS on January 20, 2015, at 9:05:16
In reply to Re: Saffron for depression (and sex) - interesting » ed_uk2010, posted by Phillipa on January 19, 2015, at 19:36:42
> Real life friend went to high school with her husband is a pdoc and working his practice in Jacksonville, Florida, He's turning away from medications and utilizing a lot of vitamins and herbs. Is the same beginning to happen there? PJ
Curcumin is interesting.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk2010 on January 20, 2015, at 9:14:13
In reply to Re: Saffron for depression (and sex) - interesting » Phillipa, posted by SLS on January 20, 2015, at 9:05:16
>Curcumin is interesting.
It is :) But... Overall, saffron seems more promising in mental health. Saffron has been effective in animal models of depression and in clinical trials. Curcumin has shown some evidence of benefit in animal models but poor results in clinical trials. It appears to have low bioavailability.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25373119
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 20, 2015, at 10:07:32
In reply to Saffron for depression (and sex) - interesting, posted by ed_uk2010 on January 18, 2015, at 17:40:26
How long until it kicks in when it works?
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 20, 2015, at 10:13:14
In reply to Re: Saffron for depression (and sex) - interesting, posted by Lamdage22 on January 20, 2015, at 10:07:32
what do i have to look out for to find the right product?
I have seen 2,5:1 extract. ?
Posted by SLS on January 20, 2015, at 11:09:12
In reply to Re: Saffron for depression (and sex) - interesting » SLS, posted by ed_uk2010 on January 20, 2015, at 9:14:13
> >Curcumin is interesting.
>
> It is :) But... Overall, saffron seems more promising in mental health. Saffron has been effective in animal models of depression and in clinical trials. Curcumin has shown some evidence of benefit in animal models but poor results in clinical trials. It appears to have low bioavailability.
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25373119
Thanks, Ed. <smile> I will definitely consider it. I am out of ideas.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 20, 2015, at 12:09:52
In reply to Re: Saffron for depression (and sex) - interesting » ed_uk2010, posted by SLS on January 20, 2015, at 11:09:12
Keep us updated Scott.
I may try as well.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on January 20, 2015, at 16:12:00
In reply to Re: Saffron for depression (and sex) - interesting, posted by Lamdage22 on January 20, 2015, at 10:07:32
>How long until it kicks in?
Trials have shown a good effect within 4 weeks.
The dose is 15mg of extract twice a day. I'm unsure which extract is best, I'm looking into it.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on January 20, 2015, at 16:15:56
In reply to Re: Saffron for depression (and sex) - interesting » ed_uk2010, posted by SLS on January 20, 2015, at 11:09:12
>I will definitely consider it. I am out of ideas.
It would be great if it could help you. I found it encouraging to read that it was useful as an add on to antidepressants (well, to SSRIs). On its own, it has only been compared with imipramine and fluoxetine (at full therapeutic doses). No significant differences in efficacy were identified in the comparative trials.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on January 20, 2015, at 16:19:23
In reply to Re: Saffron for depression (and sex) - interesting, posted by Lamdage22 on January 20, 2015, at 12:09:52
http://examine.com/supplements/Saffron
'Saffron
Crocus sativus is a stemless flower commonly known as saffron and used as a Spice. Low dose supplementation appears to confer antidepressive properties.
This page features 57 unique references to scientific papers.'
Posted by Lamdage22 on January 21, 2015, at 10:38:21
In reply to Great summary: saffron in depression and other dx, posted by ed_uk2010 on January 20, 2015, at 16:19:23
Is it true that most of the studies that have been done took place in iran?
Posted by ed_uk2010 on January 21, 2015, at 11:01:43
In reply to Re: Great summary: saffron in depression and other dx, posted by Lamdage22 on January 21, 2015, at 10:38:21
> Is it true that most of the studies that have been done took place in iran?
Yes.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on January 25, 2015, at 5:14:29
In reply to Re: Great summary: saffron in depression and other dx, posted by ed_uk2010 on January 21, 2015, at 11:01:43
I looked into what side effects may occur with saffron. It seems that minor side effects are common but serious reactions are rare. Saffron side effects:
Headaches, nausea and reduced appetite were reported frequently with a similar incidence to SSRIs. Increased appetite was reported less commonly. Sexual dysfunction was only a problem with SSRIs, not saffron. As with SSRIs, some pts seemed to have an initial increase in anxiety at the start of saffron treatment. Anxiety was then reduced after a few weeks. It appears than saffron may reduce blood pressure.
Posted by SLS on January 25, 2015, at 17:00:58
In reply to Re: Great summary: saffron in depression and other dx, posted by ed_uk2010 on January 25, 2015, at 5:14:29
> I looked into what side effects may occur with saffron. It seems that minor side effects are common but serious reactions are rare. Saffron side effects:
>
> Headaches, nausea and reduced appetite were reported frequently with a similar incidence to SSRIs. Increased appetite was reported less commonly. Sexual dysfunction was only a problem with SSRIs, not saffron. As with SSRIs, some pts seemed to have an initial increase in anxiety at the start of saffron treatment. Anxiety was then reduced after a few weeks. It appears than saffron may reduce blood pressure.Any dosage guidelines?
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk2010 on January 26, 2015, at 2:44:52
In reply to Re: Great summary: saffron in depression and other dx » ed_uk2010, posted by SLS on January 25, 2015, at 17:00:58
>Any dosage guidelines?
All the major studies used 30mg of extract daily, as 15mg twice a day. I'm not sure which extract they used, I think it was the 1 in 6 ie. 15mg of extract equivalent to approx. 90mg of saffron.
Posted by Mogger on January 27, 2015, at 0:26:48
In reply to Re: Great summary: saffron in depression and other dx » SLS, posted by ed_uk2010 on January 26, 2015, at 2:44:52
I used this supplement for mood a few years ago. It was beneficial for mood without a doubt. I tried the bioavailabole curcumin and it seemed to aggravate my depression.
http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/item01432/Optimized-Saffron-with-Satiereal
Posted by ed_uk2010 on January 27, 2015, at 6:19:07
In reply to optimized saffron » ed_uk2010, posted by Mogger on January 27, 2015, at 0:26:48
> I used this supplement for mood a few years ago. It was beneficial for mood without a doubt.
Hi,
Thanks for posting. Why did you stop taking it? The cost?
Posted by mogger on January 27, 2015, at 10:08:10
In reply to Re: optimized saffron » Mogger, posted by ed_uk2010 on January 27, 2015, at 6:19:07
Hi Ed,
I remember my psychiatrist not being happy about me taking it with my other meds so I discontinued it unfortunately. I would be happy to take saffron again but definitely not curcumin. He needs clinical studies so at the time I couldn't make enough of a case to persuade him to allow me to keep taking it. Hope you are doing well,
Joseph
Posted by ed_uk2010 on January 27, 2015, at 10:13:55
In reply to Re: optimized saffron » ed_uk2010, posted by mogger on January 27, 2015, at 10:08:10
Hi Joseph,
>I remember my psychiatrist not being happy about me taking it with my other meds...
There are studies of it being used in combination with SSRIs, but not other medication. Nothing untoward was reported when it was combined with SSRIs. There are certainly more clinical studies of saffron than there are of most herbal treatments.
Hope you're still doing well on lithium.
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