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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Willyee234 on August 3, 2014, at 8:57:27
I tried mxe its potent cousin,but when the hell is this drug supposed to make it out of the pipeline
Posted by Hugh on August 3, 2014, at 9:27:10
In reply to Ketamine pipeline, posted by Willyee234 on August 3, 2014, at 8:57:27
Ketamine is now available in at least 18 locations in the US. Here's a list of doctors who provide it:
http://www.ketamineadvocacynetwork.org/46-2/
The cheapest ketamine doctor I know of on the list is in Atlanta. He charges $300 per treatment. The most expensive one I know of is in Deerfield, Illinois. He charges $1,000 per treatment.
Not on this list is Edward Fruitman in NYC and Long Island. I believe he charges $250 for a ketamine injection.
https://trifectahealthnyc.com/our-services/ketamine-treatment-for-depression/
Posted by Phillipa on August 3, 2014, at 9:37:04
In reply to Re: Ketamine pipeline, posted by Hugh on August 3, 2014, at 9:27:10
One of the posters received it from Dr Fruitman I believed. Back to regular Ad's now also I think. Phillipa
Posted by johnLA on August 3, 2014, at 11:08:09
In reply to Ketamine pipeline, posted by Willyee234 on August 3, 2014, at 8:57:27
i think the real future will be drugs that are under development that are in the class of ketamine, etc.
google 'glyx-13.'
for those of you who remember i tried both a ketamine infusion and ketamine intranasal spray. both docs are listed on the site that hugh provided.
there some truly new meds that are being trialed that are not ssri's/snri'setc. i'm hopeful these come-out in the next 2 or 3 years. some are being 'fastracked' by the fda due to how well they are doing in initial trials.
i'm not against the way ketamine is being used now. it works for some, but it is far from the bright light it was a few years ago when the news first broke. plus, continuous use of ketamine as it is being used now can be physically problematic. even at the lower doses they are using.
still, another tool in the box for us is always good. just didn't work for me and the doc said the initial #'s/responders were not holding up.
john
Posted by phidippus on August 3, 2014, at 14:04:17
In reply to Ketamine pipeline, posted by Willyee234 on August 3, 2014, at 8:57:27
not anytime soon. abuse potential is too high. that and clinical data isn't significant.
Eric
Posted by jrbecker76 on August 19, 2014, at 10:56:07
In reply to Re: Ketamine pipeline » Willyee234, posted by phidippus on August 3, 2014, at 14:04:17
> not anytime soon. abuse potential is too high. that and clinical data isn't significant.
>
> EricI'm not sure what you're basing this conclusion on.
The data from ketamine-like compounds is actually quite compelling. I have been involved in a number of clinical trials, including intraveneous ketamine, Decoglurant (aka RO4995819, RG1578 - a mGlu2 antag) as well as GLYX-13 (a partial Glycine agonist). Although I was personally not a responder to these treatments, the trials as a whole have produced significant efficacy that are pushing them towards late-stage clinical trial development. On a related note, J&J's intranasal Esketamine as well as Cerecor's CERC-301 have both received the FDA's Fast-Track status.
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 19, 2014, at 14:30:37
In reply to Re: Ketamine pipeline » phidippus, posted by jrbecker76 on August 19, 2014, at 10:56:07
> The data from ketamine-like compounds is actually quite compelling. I have been involved in a number of clinical trials, including intraveneous ketamine, Decoglurant (aka RO4995819, RG1578 - a mGlu2 antag) as well as GLYX-13 (a partial Glycine agonist). Although I was personally not a responder to these treatments, the trials as a whole have produced significant efficacy that are pushing them towards late-stage clinical trial development. On a related note, J&J's intranasal Esketamine as well as Cerecor's CERC-301 have both received the FDA's Fast-Track status.
Glyx-13 is also on fast-track.
Posted by phidippus on August 20, 2014, at 16:24:18
In reply to Re: Ketamine pipeline, posted by Lamdage22 on August 19, 2014, at 14:30:37
A clinic here in Colorado is giving infusions for $900 a pop. Eegadzooks!!!
Eric
Posted by ed_uk2010 on August 21, 2014, at 13:37:06
In reply to Re: Ketamine pipeline » Lamdage22, posted by phidippus on August 20, 2014, at 16:24:18
> A clinic here in Colorado is giving infusions for $900 a pop. Eegadzooks!!!
>
> EricTalk about profit/margin....
Posted by Lamdage22 on August 24, 2014, at 11:01:28
In reply to Re: Ketamine pipeline » Lamdage22, posted by phidippus on August 20, 2014, at 16:24:18
> A clinic here in Colorado is giving infusions for $900 a pop. Eegadzooks!!!
>
> EricGlyx or Ketamine?
Posted by Aspenking on August 26, 2014, at 9:07:40
In reply to Re: Ketamine pipeline » phidippus, posted by jrbecker76 on August 19, 2014, at 10:56:07
JR - Would you mind telling us how you were able to enroll in the clinical trials you mentioned in your post. Like, are you in Washington DC area where NIH is conducting trials. I hope my request isn't to specific. Thank you.
Posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2014, at 21:09:13
In reply to Re: Ketamine pipeline, posted by Aspenking on August 26, 2014, at 9:07:40
I think JR got the ketamine in NYC . Not sure though
Posted by psychobot5000 on August 27, 2014, at 1:12:09
In reply to Re: Ketamine pipeline » Aspenking, posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2014, at 21:09:13
> I think JR got the ketamine in NYC . Not sure though
One can get ketamine infusions at NYKI (New York Ketamine Infusions) for depression and possibly other legitimate indications. Here is the website:
http://nyketamine.com/Unless they've changed management, the clinic is less glamorous than the site makes it appear (though perfectly safe and adequate), and is managed by a friendly elderly ex-naval doctor trying to do good. His standard fee, last time I checked, was 500$ a transfusion, but if you cannot afford this, he will work with you a great deal (to the point that he was having trouble getting enough revenue to support the clinic because he charged too little; please don't take advantage)--he wants to help.
In my experience, Ketamine acted as a mix of stimulant and antidepressant. It did help, but I have insomnia and was unable to sleep, so was forced to discontinue treatment.
Posted by NuminousMist on October 16, 2015, at 16:28:09
In reply to Re: Ketamine pipeline, posted by Hugh on August 3, 2014, at 9:27:10
Hello Friends,
Thought I'd speak up because I see above in this thread a reference to Dr. Fruitman (Trifecta Health, in NYC), and the topic of cost is an important. I've been seeing Dr. Fruitman for over a year and can confirm that he charges $250.00 per in office Ketamine session. My understanding of the reason this is cheaper than many other providers is because he does it intramuscularly. A shot in the arm is a lot less complicated, and thus less costly, than IV. Would like to say right off that Dr. Fruitman is a wonderful PDoc! Over the past twenty years, I have worked with probably 10+ PDocs, and he is in league of my own. I wouldn't say that haphazardly. I strongly, strongly recommend him. He knows a lot, lot more than just Ketamine. I find the breadth and depth of his knowledge of pharmacology for depression, anxiety, ADHD truly exceptional. He is also no B.S. He has proven to me beyond any doubt that he is far more interested in helping me than making money.
Regarding the advantages and disadvantages of intravenous versus intramuscular, I was told IM is a better route of administration because it is more controllable and safer. With IV, there is a risk of too much Ketamine entering the blood stream at one time, either through human error or malfunction, How much risk? Dont know, but with IM, there is no risk, the reason for which is self-evident. (Fruitman gave me an initial injection, waited fifteen minutes, took my blood pressure and asked me how I felt. Because blood pressure was acceptable and I felt fine, he gave a second, final injection.) Another argument why IM is safer is because you don't have needle sticking into a vein for an extended period, creating a greater risk of infection than a two second shot in the arm. Regarding which route is more effective in treating depression, I've read articles stating that IV is the more effective, but these articles didnt providing any convincing supporting evidence, whatsoever. Granted, may a higher percentage gets to the brain via IV, but that can easily be compensated for by administering a higher dosage intramuscularly.
So, why do most shops administer intravenously? What I heard is the reason is that anesthesiologists are the ones who have the easiest access to and experience with Ketamine, since Ketamine has been used as an anesthetic for many years now. And administering drugs intravenously is what anesthesiologists do when a large percentage of the time. Makes sense to me. If this argument is correct, then the prevalence of IV administration for Ketamine is more the result of circumstance than efficacy and safety: Anesthesiologists have had the good fortune to be in the right place at the right time and are cashing in Ketamine for depression. Nothing wrong with that, except that a lot of people may be paying a lot more than they need to do. I do not know whether the doctors who administer Ketamine intravenously for depression are primarily anesthesiologists or pdocs, but Id be curious to find out.
Why more pdocs have not gotten off their butt and started administering Ketamine intramuscularly is another question, but the answer, in my opinion, is obvious: they are lazy. Fruitman is the exception. I thought I was up on the latest, but the first I heard of Brintellix, Fetzima, folate metabolism deficiency (and the genetic test to determine it), was when I first saw Fruitman.
Please note: Everything I have said is just my opinion. I am not claiming I am right about all, or even most, of what I have written. But I giving you my honest opinion. When I saw Dr. Fruitman mentioned on this thread, I felt an obligation to speak up, as I have gotten tremendous benefit from working with him, and from Ketamine.
Incidentally, he is also open to prescribing intranasal administration. I happen to live three hours from NYC and am not independently wealthy, so it was something I was interested in. Turns out, intranasal administration is unbelievable cheap and it works beautifully. Filling a prescription for a bottle providing fifteen intranasal Ketamine sessions currently costs around $100 at specialty pharmacy in NYC. That comes to something like $8.00 a session! Considering how many people must be out there who are currently suffering, despite taking one or more first line ADs, as I was, I felt it might duty to speak up here and share my positive experience. Good luck to everyone.
Posted by NuminousMist on October 16, 2015, at 16:34:05
In reply to Re: Ketamine pipeline, posted by Hugh on August 3, 2014, at 9:27:10
Hello Friends,
Thought I'd speak up because I see above in this thread a reference to Dr. Fruitman (Trifecta Health, in NYC), and the topic of cost is an important. I've been seeing Dr. Fruitman for over a year and can confirm that he charges $250.00 per in office Ketamine session. My understanding of the reason this is cheaper than many other providers is because he does it intramuscularly. A shot in the arm is a lot less complicated, and thus less costly, than IV. Would like to say right off that Dr. Fruitman is a wonderful PDoc! Over the past twenty years, I have worked with probably 10+ PDocs, and he is in league of my own. I wouldn't say that haphazardly. I strongly, strongly recommend him. He knows a lot, lot more than just Ketamine. I find the breadth and depth of his knowledge of pharmacology for depression, anxiety, ADHD truly exceptional. He is also no B.S. He has proven to me beyond any doubt that he is far more interested in helping me than making money.
Regarding the advantages and disadvantages of intravenous versus intramuscular, I was told IM is a better route of administration because it is more controllable and safer. With IV, there is a risk of too much Ketamine entering the blood stream at one time, either through human error or malfunction, How much risk? Dont know, but with IM, there is no risk, the reason for which is self-evident. (Fruitman gave me an initial injection, waited fifteen minutes, took my blood pressure and asked me how I felt. Because blood pressure was acceptable and I felt fine, he gave a second, final injection.) Another argument why IM is safer is because you don't have needle sticking into a vein for an extended period, creating a greater risk of infection than a two second shot in the arm. Regarding which route is more effective in treating depression, I've read articles stating that IV is the more effective, but these articles didnt providing any convincing supporting evidence, whatsoever. Granted, may a higher percentage gets to the brain via IV, but that can easily be compensated for by administering a higher dosage intramuscularly.
So, why do most shops administer intravenously? What I heard is the reason is that anesthesiologists are the ones who have the easiest access to and experience with Ketamine, since Ketamine has been used as an anesthetic for many years now. And administering drugs intravenously is what anesthesiologists do when a large percentage of the time. Makes sense to me. If this argument is correct, then the prevalence of IV administration for Ketamine is more the result of circumstance than efficacy and safety: Anesthesiologists have had the good fortune to be in the right place at the right time and are cashing in Ketamine for depression. Nothing wrong with that, except that a lot of people may be paying a lot more than they need to do. I do not know whether the doctors who administer Ketamine intravenously for depression are primarily anesthesiologists or pdocs, but Id be curious to find out.
Why more pdocs have not gotten off their butt and started administering Ketamine intramuscularly is another question, but the answer, in my opinion, is obvious: they are lazy. Fruitman is the exception. I thought I was up on the latest, but the first I heard of Brintellix, Fetzima, folate metabolism deficiency (and the genetic test to determine it), was when I first saw Fruitman.
Please note: Everything I have said is just my opinion. I am not claiming I am right about all, or even most, of what I have written. But I giving you my honest opinion. When I saw Dr. Fruitman mentioned on this thread, I felt an obligation to speak up, as I have gotten tremendous benefit from working with him, and from Ketamine.
Incidentally, he is also open to prescribing intranasal administration. I happen to live three hours from NYC and am not independently wealthy, so it was something I was interested in. Turns out, intranasal administration is unbelievable cheap and it works beautifully. Filling a prescription for a bottle providing fifteen intranasal Ketamine sessions currently costs around $100 at specialty pharmacy in NYC. That comes to something like $8.00 a session! Considering how many people must be out there who are currently suffering, despite taking one or more first line ADs, as I was, I felt it might duty to speak up here and share my positive experience. Good luck to everyone.
Posted by Hugh on November 5, 2015, at 10:34:33
In reply to Re: Ketamine pipeline, posted by NuminousMist on October 16, 2015, at 16:34:05
How often do you use intranasal ketamine? How often did you get ketamine injections? Are you off ADs, now that you're using ketamine?
Posted by Hugh on December 11, 2015, at 11:47:43
In reply to Re: Ketamine pipeline, posted by NuminousMist on October 16, 2015, at 16:34:05
> Filling a prescription for a bottle providing fifteen intranasal Ketamine sessions currently costs around $100 at specialty pharmacy in NYC. That comes to something like $8.00 a session!
You might want to do some more shopping around. Deahoidar recently posted that he gets a three-month supply of intranasal ketamine for $70.
Posted by ketme on March 3, 2016, at 1:15:09
In reply to Re: Ketamine pipeline » NuminousMist, posted by Hugh on December 11, 2015, at 11:47:43
There is a new Ketamine clinic in the Chicago area called Midwest Ketamine Center. It looks like they are doing ketamine infusions for depression, ptsd, and chronic pain. It is great to see more places opening up using this therapy!
Posted by steve hyde on March 3, 2016, at 17:14:57
In reply to Re: Ketamine pipeline, posted by ketme on March 3, 2016, at 1:15:09
Good to see more opportunities to trial ketamine arising. However for many this treatment remains unavailable or too expensive as repeated courses are often needed.It is worth exploring cheaper, more practical options such as oral and sublingual ketamine which are proving to be effective and safe when given as part of a comprehensive treatment program.
This is the end of the thread.
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