Shown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Danielj on June 10, 2014, at 17:00:24
After being on Latuda for almost 2 months, my son was ready to explode. Towards the end he was getting violent. He started with 40 mg worked all the way uo to 120 mg per day, and getting worse and worse until pacing virtually all day and all night. Still the doc didn't take him off of it. Duh! I took him off of it. We had lots of Zyprexa a few months old I gave him 10 mg the first 2 days and then 10 mg morning and 10 mg evening. A little over a week now and he has improved 100%. He was taking Zyprexa for at least 9 years when the care center put him on Haldol and Wellbutrin. It worked a couple of weeks and the EPS and the shakes set in. His therapist told us (parents and legal guardians) to get him off that combo right away before he ended up with Dyskinesia. Our Pdoc recommended Latuda 2 months later here we are back
to Zyprexa. I think his Pdoc will be OK for now with his being on Zyprexa, I phoned the office and told them what we were doing. In the meantime maybe find another psychiatrist.
Posted by Phillipa on June 10, 2014, at 17:48:58
In reply to Latuda did not work out! Back to Zyprexa., posted by Danielj on June 10, 2014, at 17:00:24
Daniel that stinks for your Son. Good news is the zyprexa works well for him. If it works why would the psychiatrist he has want him off of the zyprexa? Phillipa
Posted by crabcakebenny on June 10, 2014, at 20:34:49
In reply to Latuda did not work out! Back to Zyprexa., posted by Danielj on June 10, 2014, at 17:00:24
God, that sounds hellish. I'm pretty sure the lack of anti-cholinergic action w/ Latuda makes it more prone to causing EPS related side-effects. I have to take Cogentin w/ mine or akathisia sets in, which sounds like what your son was going through. can't overstate how bad that is, and I'm taking a much smaller dose. and yeah, find a different doctor. in the case you're implying he didn't even try to relieve your son's side-effects. that's ridiculous considering that 2 month span.
Posted by stan_the_man70 on June 10, 2014, at 23:32:16
In reply to Latuda did not work out! Back to Zyprexa., posted by Danielj on June 10, 2014, at 17:00:24
Not sure if you are familiar with this article
http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/10/zyprexa_and_fat.htmlIt explains how Zyprexa causes weight gain
Zyprexa makes free fatty acids level go down.
Zyprexa's effects on glucose and insulin are bad.
Zyprexa's effect on triglycerides is... weird.
Zyprexa Makes Your Body Use Fat, Not Carbs, As Fuel
why would increased utilization of fat be a bad thing? turning your arteries into Twizzlers. Yum!
SUMMARY: A class effect, to varying degrees; and eating less may not help.
In other words, Zyprexa didn't make the rats heavier, it made them fatter. It increased their body fat while decreasing the lean body mass. Bright side: now they can float!
Well thank God doctors are finally going to know the truth about Zyprexa!
Ordinarily, this kind of information would have come to me through my Abilify rep: "see? Zyprexa blows!" But the FDA now forbids anti-competitor comparisons; and neither are the reps allowed to tell me that the study exists. Promotional speakers can't mention this either. So? CME? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
(continuing medical education)It would be worth your time to read the article
Posted by stan_the_man70 on June 10, 2014, at 23:38:15
In reply to Latuda did not work out! Back to Zyprexa., posted by Danielj on June 10, 2014, at 17:00:24
http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/10/zyprexa_and_fat.html#comment-12174
posted from above
----------------------
October 19, 2010 1:59 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | ReplyDopamine is a major metabolic controller. In animals dopamine along with melatonin is largely responsible for seasonal adaptation, i.e. hibernation. Human obesity is largely a hibernation response gone unchecked and chronically triggered by very high carbohyrate and abnormally decreased bright sun exposure combined with abnormal stressors (sleep deprivation and abnormal light exposure patterns - too much during sleep, not enough during wake).
In people taking zyprexa, blocking their dopamine receptors (and serotonin, and others) is making genes active that promote hibernation - they stop burning fat, stop storing fat, blood sugar increases, fertility shuts down, etc. It is no different than a hibernating animal.
In obese and diabetic humans it has been shown there is a paucity of dopaminergic signalling, and this is reversible upon glucose restriction. Downregulation of dopamine signalling is necessary to allow metabolic disorders to occur, why ? Because it is fundamentally a normal evolutionarily concerned hibernation tendency, it is only a disease in our modern society where tehse genes are being abnormally activated, chronically, year round.
Bromocriptine helps diabetes and obesity for this reason.
Regarding the observation that people on olanzapine are not using carbohydrate for energy, I would assume that is just the natural result of blocking multiple serotonin and dopamine receptors in the body - an inability, a debilitation, in using glucose for energy. This is a natural and evolutionarily conserved result of deficient neurotransmitter signaling, which again to the body signifies seasonal change and impending winter thus a hibernation-like response (metabolic conservation involving fat accrual, sleeping more, hunger, and shut down fertility).It's been known for awhile that when the body switches to using fat for energy this will result in hyperglycemia and thus compensatory hyperinsulinemia, which leads to body fat gain. When the body insists on burning fat even in the presence of carbohydrate, it could mean any number of things... 1) pathological insulin resistance due to damaged /deficient mitochondria (glucose cannot get into the cells because the mitochondria are deficient, mitochondria therefore burn fat primariliy and glucose in the blood is elevated)... 2) someone is taking a drug that induces hibernation and transient metabolic conservation (with deficient dopamine and serotonin, the body refuses to accept glucose, uses fat instead as in hibernation, body fat and blood sugar increase as it might in early fall to prepare for winter. Fertility decreases in response to decreased dopamine and serotonin as well, and infertility is a major feature of winter adaptation/hibernation in animals as it is in humans on dopamine receptor blockers.)
Eating less carbohydrate, particularly sugar, is the obvious intervention to control obesity. Even though increased fat utilization occurs during metabolic disorder, it is ultimately the glucose portion of the diet that triggers the fat storage and diabetes... or at least the WORST of it. If the body wants to use fat, then feed it fat. If you try to feed it sugar, all that will happen is your pancreas will spew out insulin and your liver will convert it to fat which is efficiently stored in adipose. If you avoid eating glucose food, the worst of this hyperglycemic/hyperinsulinemic tendency is controlled.
Regarding getting the "truth" out there...It's well known receptor blockers for psych illness make you a hibernating animal that sleeps 14 hours a day and has no motivation and weighs 300 pounds. This is not breaking news. Perhaps it would eliminate the stigma against fat schizophrenics, but that's more about social status than science anyway... the poor, uneducated, mentally ill, overweight people, how unfortunate. NO one cares.
Maybe one day, in a land far away, we will treat schizophrenia and manic depression as biological illnesses and figure out what is causing them, and ultimately resolve them... rather than just shut the brain down with receptor blockers like a chemical lobotomy.
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Posted by stan_the_man70 on June 10, 2014, at 23:52:30
In reply to Latuda did not work out! Back to Zyprexa., posted by Danielj on June 10, 2014, at 17:00:24
http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/10/zyprexa_and_fat.html#comment-12528
October 29, 2010 12:19 AM | Posted, in reply to Jack Coupal's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply
1) pharmacology does not exclude physiology, merely informs it.
2) Of course not. However, we know this:Humans on zyprexa get hyperglycemia.
Rats on zyperxa get hyperglycemia.
Humans on zyprexa have a change in metabolism, which is causing hyperglycemia.
Rats on zyprexa have their mitochondria switch so that they prioritize fat oxidation, which results in hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia as a secondary effect.
In humans not on zyprexa, but with genetic tendency to aquire T2DM/ hyperglycemia, it is noted they have genetic traits which make their mitochondria prioritize burning fat for fuel first, which then makes them more insulin resistant. So, it is known that this zyprexa induced metabolic change does occur in humans under other circumstances (genetically), which makes them at risk to develop T2dm.Considering the above, it is simple deduction to say that as of now it is a good hypothesis that human hyperglycemia post zyprexa is related to a switch to a primary fat burning state resulting in secondary glucose intolerance, hyperglycemia, and hyperinsulinemia, which results in diabetes and obesity (from hyperinsulinemia/increased appetite). It is not yet PROVEN but it is a reasonable hypothesis at this point in time.
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Posted by Zyprexa on June 11, 2014, at 1:04:01
In reply to Re: Latuda did not work out! Back to Zyprexa. » Danielj, posted by stan_the_man70 on June 10, 2014, at 23:52:30
I find if I eat healthy and exercise the zyprexa does not make me fat. My blood sugars are normal too.
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 11, 2014, at 9:58:09
In reply to Latuda did not work out! Back to Zyprexa., posted by Danielj on June 10, 2014, at 17:00:24
Haldol and Wellbutrin??
Thats a crime!
I would seek someone else seriously
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 11, 2014, at 10:01:03
In reply to Re: Latuda did not work out! Back to Zyprexa., posted by Lamdage22 on June 11, 2014, at 9:58:09
Why not take a dopamine agonist right away while simultaneously using antipsychotics??
That is BS
This is the end of the thread.
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