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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by poser938 on May 23, 2014, at 13:34:43
About a month ago i had dislocated my shoulder. it was probably the worst physical pain i had ever felt. i had tripped over a chain in my yard and fell hard with my arm reached out. I got up and realized i couldnt move my arm a centimeter without it causing me to moan loudly in pain. i went inside and just sat on my bed for about 45 minutes, thinking the pain would slowly go away. but after time went by, the pain didnt lighten up at all.
so i got in the car with my dad and he drove me to the hospital. now, as usual, the ER doc was a bit slow at seeing me. but when he did, he came in the room. asked me where it hurt. had the xray doc take an xray to see where it was dislocated. and after this the doctor came in the room and put me under anesthesia as well as inject me with morphine. and before i knew it, problem fixed! my shoulder was no longe dislocated and i was sent home with pain medicine for the lasting pain.
this was the best doctor visit ive had in recent memory. it was just so simple.
but then, when you step into the world of psychiatry, EVERYTHING is subjective. it. is filled with conflicting ideas. one can go to 3 different psychiatrists and get 3 different diagnoses. one psychiatrist can think a certain medication might be perfect for your situation, while another wouldnt in a million years think that med is appropriate for you... and the list goes on.
and then theres just seeking appropriate treatment. sure, a medical doctor will sometimes hand out an SSRI out like candy. or you may need to go to a psychiatrist for anything further, such as an atypical antipsychotic or a stimulant. and thats pretty simple.
but then there are treatments that show much more promise for treatment resistant patients. doctors oftent dont prescribe these medications until youre ready to end it all. Until their suffering has ran their life downhill. and sometimes its too late to prescribe these meds that work best for treatment resistant patients. such as Ketamine Therapy. i actually had Ketamine prescribed in the past, but it was just in a nasal spray. and i believe it was SLS who informed me that thats not the corrrect way to prescribe it for mood tteatment.
And then there are more invasive treatments that show promise for helping someones suffering. Deep BrStimulation, rTMS, Deep rTMS, Vagus Nerve Stimulation, and of course Electroconvulsive Therapy. Most of these are just out of reach for most who are suffering. Either because of the massive price or its just unavailable in your area. when i had rTMS, i had to stay in a hotel 3 hours from my house becaus the doctor that did it was so far away (and it ended up being a waste of time and money). Now ive been frying for over 3 months to have ECT done. i think/hope success is close. but damn. and if this doesnt work, hiw much time will my hopeless, disabled self have to work to seek out another, more invasive treatment?
Mental Health "Care" is still a joke in this country. they know the trestments arent that effective, yet theres no push to make a wide variety of treatments available. And its si difficult to find someone who is in the position to help, who will actually help. this whole system has just been a nightmare for me. And i know it wont get any better any time soon. it wont be as simple as relocating my dislocated shoulder for 50 years, at least.
Posted by poser938 on May 23, 2014, at 19:47:05
In reply to Why not make Mental Health Care more simple?, posted by poser938 on May 23, 2014, at 13:34:43
Heh. didnt intend to write that much. just kinda got on a roll.
Posted by SLS on May 23, 2014, at 21:48:22
In reply to Re: Why not make Mental Health Care more simple?, posted by poser938 on May 23, 2014, at 19:47:05
> Heh. didnt intend to write that much. just kinda got on a roll.
Nice roll!
Psychiatry sucks right now. It is steeped in a rich history of guessing. What else could doctors do? I'm not sure how psychiatry could be made much better with the current lack of data and understanding. In the absence of evidence, I think that the approach a doctor takes towards these limitations is important. Recognizing and acknowledging ignorance is enlightenment. Scientists are only now beginning to find biomarkers that will, hopefully, be able to determine diagnosis and treatment.
I am a bit surprised by your current choice of treatment. I thought you would find ECT primitive and barbaric. I neither endorse nor repudiate it. I had a course of 15 treatments 23 years ago, including bilateral placement. I did not benefit from it. However, they use different placements and pulse settings now. In a correspondence with Max Fink, he told me that these differences are important, and that I could not exclude modern ECT from consideration. I hope you respond well to it.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2014, at 22:11:38
In reply to Re: Why not make Mental Health Care more simple? » poser938, posted by SLS on May 23, 2014, at 21:48:22
Poser great post you got it all out. Phillipa
Posted by poser938 on May 23, 2014, at 22:36:21
In reply to Re: Why not make Mental Health Care more simple?, posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2014, at 22:11:38
Scott, the most barbaric thing about ECT is that they get away with downplaying the most tragic effects it can have on someone. People have permanently had their lives further ruined by ECT, compared to how their mental health was before ECT. And often the worst effects ECT has on someone sre blamed on the illness. Its basically the same experience ive had with medications. I cant say ive personally seen the damage it has done to someones brain, but the symptoms are all there.
The main thing people need is full, informed consent. and if allthe worst that can happen, does happen, then these people need the full, undevided attention of health professionals. and everyone needs access to the help they need.
i never thought i would see ECT as an option until i ran out of options. I know what it can possibly do to me. i know after this doctors may still turn a blind eye to what ive gone through. but i have no other choice. and ive spent 3 monthd trying to find a place that would do ECT for me. and for various reasons, whether its they dont accept my insurance, theyre not accepting new patients, or they dont have a doc available, ive been stuck in a dire dire situation. all any doc would offer me is to lock me up so i wont hurt myself. but no doc would offer sctual help.
but now i finally have an appointment at Vanderbilt, 180 miles away. it is one of the top hospitals in the nation, so i hope theyre afvanced with their ECT techniques.
Posted by stan_the_man70 on May 24, 2014, at 8:55:38
In reply to Why not make Mental Health Care more simple?, posted by poser938 on May 23, 2014, at 13:34:43
Sorry don't want to keep harping on the same...
but did you read this post?http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20131226/msgs/1065511.html
>>Has everyone watched the documentary 'Marketing of Madness' ? I think the documentary was well-made and covered a lot of issues. It looked at various aspects of psychiatry and a number of people were interviewed.
>>What is your reaction to the documentary? Do you think it was fair? realistic? propaganda? does not relate to you? too general? not medicinal/scientific?
>>I hope everyone will reply.>>I'm surprised with the number of people who still insist on taking medications or other types of supplements. Don't you look at evidence to the contrary?
>>They say 10-20% of americans on some sort of psychotropic medication.>>thanks for your time
Posted by poser938 on May 24, 2014, at 14:48:53
In reply to Marketing of Madness » poser938, posted by stan_the_man70 on May 24, 2014, at 8:55:38
Stan, not many people enjoy having the horrors of Psychiatry and Drug Companies shown to them. Most people just cant believe it. I think they hear these things and think "well, this is America. it cant be that bad." And i always think "is this really happening in America?" The nation i was so proud of before i experienced what ive gone through with Psychiatry.
I want to be Patriotic, but i just cant be anymore.
Posted by baseball55 on May 24, 2014, at 20:01:35
In reply to Re: Marketing of Madness, posted by poser938 on May 24, 2014, at 14:48:53
Psychiatry is not orthopedics. Treating simple bone injuries is one of the few things doctors have known how to do for centuries. Over the last 70 years, they've also figured out how to treat most bacterial infections, some viruses (though few), some heart problems.
Psychiatry isn't much less advanced than oncology. Some cancers are now easily treated, like childhood leukemia. But oncologists are constantly throwing drugs with questionable safety and efficacy at cancers they don't really understand or how to treat. Not only do these drugs cost a fortune (sometimes tens of thousands for a 20% chance at 3 months of additional life), but they often make people's final months a torment.
I don't feel the same disdain for psychiatry that I hear from so many on this list. The drugs have limitations. They have side effects. They often don't work. There are no physical markers for mental illness (i.e., something that would show up on a blood test or scan) and so no obvious way to research antidotes except through trial and error. I have found most of the p-docs I dealt with to be very honest and modest about their abilities to affect a cure. That's been my experience.
What I find mystifying, for someone so hostile to psychiatry, is that you would choose to undergo a treatment (ECT) that is often ineffective, always has severe side effects and whose mechanism of action, when it does work, is a complete mystery.
I will also add that I have encountered many psychiatrists over many hospitalizations and have respected almost all of them. The exception was the doctor who did ECT. I felt that all he cared about was filling his schedule with billable procedures. He seemed completely uninterested in me. I thought he was a real creep.
Posted by poser938 on May 24, 2014, at 21:13:28
In reply to Re: Marketing of Madness » poser938, posted by baseball55 on May 24, 2014, at 20:01:35
I was comparing the ease of access to the needed treatment. i understand the brain is way more complex than a shoulder.
but some on here are more aware of why im still seeking treatment. and its because i dont know what else to do. psychiatric meducations have messed me up with longterm, if not permanent effects from them and have my emotional state intolerable.
Some, especially psychiatrists get skeptical when i tell them my experience with meds. and what theyve done to me. but i believe psychiatric meds effected me the way they have because i had Encephalitis that resulted in a coma when i was 13. And it has been shown that when someone has had an insult to their brain like this, then the effects from meds can be very unpredictable and more severe.
thank God youve not experienced what i have.so yeah, now im seeking ECT because i feel i have nothing to lose.
Posted by Phillipa on May 24, 2014, at 21:28:00
In reply to Re: Marketing of Madness, posted by poser938 on May 24, 2014, at 21:13:28
Poser again I forgot the encephalopathy of the brain when young? I don't know what to say. Phillipa
Posted by poser938 on May 24, 2014, at 21:57:50
In reply to Re: Marketing of Madness » poser938, posted by Phillipa on May 24, 2014, at 21:28:00
If i had any idea back in 2005 that i could react more severely to these meds because of my Encephalitis, then im not so sure i would have started on them. At the time i figured psychiatric meds would be nothing but god my brain. and i figured all i needed to know about them would be on sites like WebMD. i was barely aware of the controversial side of Psychiatry and the medications.
but most of what ive experienced has been the controversial side. the side that many dont has any truth to it.sure, ive seen a few nice psychiatrists. ive seen who was just an absolute bully. and ive only seen one sho i could actually talj to about what ive experienced. but it still made no difference. And she would go into detail with me about meds. shd was an independant thinker. stil no luck with getting my life back with her though.
i know many have benefitted from these medications. i just wish i would have known about all about their effects that they could have on me before i took them.
and any psychiatrist who is semi knowkedgeable and has an ounce of an independant thought process would see the possibillity of filling someones brain, the most complicated thing in the Universe, with these dumbed down, man-made artificial chemicals, that this could lead to something life ruining for the patient.
Posted by stan_the_man70 on May 25, 2014, at 11:21:56
In reply to Why not make Mental Health Care more simple?, posted by poser938 on May 23, 2014, at 13:34:43
Did you read this post by any chance...
It talks about using alternative medicine/techniques...
Since you have already tried so many traditional/conventional psychiatry techniques...
Maybe you can read about this...I don't want to post the entire posting... but a snippet is shown below
link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20131226/msgs/1059755.html>>How to stop taking zyprexa olanzapine - withdrawals/toxicity/side effects/dependency
>>* reduce pills slowly
>>taper it down slowly rather than going from full to half to quarter to zero
>>remember it takes about a month after you reduce the medication for the withdrawal/side effects to happen sometimes
>>if u think u cannot take the strain, then for a day increase the medication at that time, rather than letting things deteriorate really badly - emphasize
>>keep a baseline below which things should not deteriorate
Posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2014, at 18:30:31
In reply to Re: Marketing of Madness, posted by poser938 on May 24, 2014, at 21:57:50
What was the cause of the encelphalopathy quite a few searches reveal a new type? Phillipa
Posted by poser938 on May 25, 2014, at 21:28:31
In reply to Re: Marketing of Madness » poser938, posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2014, at 18:30:31
We believe it was caused by a cat scratch. We had a sick cat at the time and i got a tiny little scratch on my thumb from it.
Posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2014, at 21:56:51
In reply to Re: Marketing of Madness, posted by poser938 on May 25, 2014, at 21:28:31
So cat scratch fever? Phillipa
Posted by poser938 on May 25, 2014, at 22:32:08
In reply to Re: Marketing of Madness » poser938, posted by Phillipa on May 25, 2014, at 21:56:51
Yeah.
it honestly wasnt a bad experience for me. i dont remember the beginning of it. my parents just said i had started "talking out of my head" one day. and i had a fever as well as a swollen lymph node under my arm, which i had seen the doctor a few days before about it. he decided if wasnt best to prescribe an antibiotic. but my parents took me to the ER, and from there an ambhlance took me to Childrens Hospital. and on the way there i had a seizure, my only one ever. once we got to the hospital they Dr's did a spinal tap, my parents told me i was screaming when they did it. Then not much later i was in a cima that lasted 5 days. my family was told they would know within 5 days if i would make it or not.i dont remember waking from the coma. but when i did, all i could do was lay there and drool on myself. my body was so weak. Couldnt even talk clearly at all. but i was in a good mood the whole time, except for it got boring at the hospital since i stayed there about 2 more weeks. they did more brain scans, blood tests and physical therapy until i was finally well enough to go home. and after that i was just a normal teen, until i decided to try psych meds for what i know now as just very mild mood problems. at this point my whole life was changed. psychiatric meds have taken away my life that i used to live.
and you mentioned on here some weeks ago that possibly, maybe there could be a lingering low grade infection that stuck with me. well, i had asked a psychiatrist about it when i was an inpatient for 3 days at the beginning of May. and he said if thete was then it would have shown up in the blood tests ive had since then. so i suppose that means no infection left over.
buut he, along with a few other psychiatrists have told me that an insult to the brain such as Encephalitis can cause the brain to react much differently to psychiatric meds, with more severe side effects.
Posted by stan_the_man70 on May 26, 2014, at 0:52:56
In reply to Re: Marketing of Madness, posted by poser938 on May 25, 2014, at 22:32:08
Since we are still on this topic...
I thought I would post a link...
http://traveltips.usatoday.com/health-tourism-india-14025.html
It's from USA TODAY....I'm sure there must be plenty of yoga and Ayurvedic and meditation centers over there...
But 3 are highlighted below...---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Health Tourism in IndiaIndia is the birthplace of yoga and Ayurveda nearly 5,000 years ago. So people visit the country from all over the world seeking wellness advice at retreat centers that specialize in these ancient methods. Ayurveda is a method of healing that aims to keep the body healthy by balancing vata, pitta and kapha, the body's three energies, also known as doshas. Ayurveda is a sister practice to yoga. Whether you have a particular ailment that you would like to cure or you're just looking for holistic wellness, you'll find a range of health sanctuaries dotting the nation.
Ayurveda Yoga and Retreat Hospital
The Ayurveda Yoga and Retreat Hospital is in Coonoor in southwestern India. The center focuses on healing through Ayurveda, yoga and meditation. A typical day at the retreat center consists of morning yoga classes and meditation followed by an Ayurvedic detoxification massage, an herbal bath and healthy vegetarian meals. The facility treats a range of ailments including muscular disorders, obesity, migraines, heart disease, sciatica, diabetes and skin diseases. While you're at the retreat center, you'll receive a personal Ayurvedic consultation and learn how to maintain and balance health in your own body. Each room is its own bungalow with bathroom, large bed and views of the mountains.
Ayurveda Yoga Retreat
286 Sanitorium Kambisholai Road
Tamil Nadu
Coonoor 643231
India
011-91-423-223-1912
817-428-3535 (US office)
ayurveda.org
Ananda Spa ResortAnanda Spa Resort is situated in the foothills of the Himalaya Mountains. The resort specializes in Ayurvedic healing, yoga and holistic wellness. Opt for an Ayurvedic consultation or choose from over 10 healing treatments, such as massages and wraps. The spa features other alternative health treatments such as Reiki healing, crystal healing and reflexology. If you're looking to improve your fitness, you may schedule a fitness consultation. The accommodations include deluxe rooms, suites or villas. Each room includes a walk-in closet, large balcony and bathroom.
Ananda In The Himalayas
The Palace Estate
Narendra Nagar, Tehri-Garhwal
Uttaranchal 249175
India
011-91-1378-227500
anandaspa.com
The Kerala Ayurvedic Rejuvenation and Research EstablishmentThe Kerala Ayurvedic Rejuvenation and Research Establishment (KARE) is in Pune, India, close to the central west coast of the country. It's a wellness retreat and an Ayurveda research center. KARE features Abhyangam, a form of Ayurvedic massage that uses oils to increase the circulation of blood in the body, and Udvartanam, a form of massage that uses herbal powders to treat conditions such as obesity and rheumatic disorders. The cottages have views of a lake, large beds and TVs. KARE serves healthy vegetarian food. A typical day consists of morning rejuvenating yoga, a de-stressing consultation and afternoon restorative yoga. Guests may also bird watch, have tea or explore the herbal gardens.
Kare Ayurvedic Retreat
Village Gonawadi
Mulshi Lake, Mulshi Khurd
Pune 411004
India
011-91-20-2544-2945
karehealth.com
About the AuthorCatherine Madison is a full-time freelance writer specializing in travel and food. She has written for "Stir Magazine," My Food Place, Hispanic Kitchen and Sustainability. Madison holds a Bachelor of Arts in journalism from the University of Georgia.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 6, 2014, at 2:54:03
In reply to Re: Marketing of Madness » poser938, posted by stan_the_man70 on May 26, 2014, at 0:52:56
hmm.... i wonder if you have to be all... yoga and crystals for a retreat...
i wonder what a... scientifically informed one would look like. only, no, that's not quite it... hmm...
i wonder why people haven't gone all 'traditional maaori healthcare round nz tourbus' taking people through thermal regions and...
?
and whatever they do. did.
hrm
prozac was a big money earner. viagra is a big money earner too. is not being able to get it up psychologically distressing? then i think health insurance pays for it? they were trying to get female orgasmic dysfunction or something like that through as psychological... thinking that would open up a new drug market, too.
i just mean to say that there are a bunch of different mental health drugs out there because there is money in it. only while the drug is under patient... which is why 'latest = greatest'. the research teh drug companies did says so.
safer than... stuff handed out in the 60's (no more harmful (helpful?)? than wheetiepuffs...
orthopedics gets to be the poster child of 'making things all better'. i feel like... probably lots of orthopedic people would read that first post and go 'amen!'
but then there are murky areas... we don't know very much about the immune system... hormones... i think hormones are interesting, actually... learning about how the pill prevents ovulation and then we get the death of the female sex drive which we're gonna make a new pill for!! sigh.
i'm sure it isn't as bad as all that. but when one feels depressed about it all.. the depressing stories... resonate.
Posted by stan_the_man70 on June 6, 2014, at 8:51:44
In reply to Re: Marketing of Madness, posted by alexandra_k on June 6, 2014, at 2:54:03
sorry i didn't quite understand yr msg
Posted by alexandra_k on June 6, 2014, at 16:36:17
In reply to Re: Marketing of Madness » alexandra_k, posted by stan_the_man70 on June 6, 2014, at 8:51:44
there wasn't a point. just a few different things to consider. and none of them fit particularly well together... kinda like me, generally :) hope you are well.
This is the end of the thread.
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