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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ssplash on October 25, 2013, at 6:32:04
Hi, I would like to pick your brains on your experience of Wellbutrin. I took sunifiram to aid cognitive functions by its nootropic effects, which might have caused glutamate release. I only took 2mg of it once, that was it, and a week later I still have a longstanding migraine, which I've never had before taking that small dosage of sunifiram. It doesn't ameliorate with analgesics. I am taking lamotrigine (Lamictal) and bupropion (Wellbutrin) for bipolar II. Lamotrigine is a glutamate inhibitor, but would you know if Wellbutrin might cause glutamate release? I am trying to get better taking Theanine and Alpha GPC. Will also try zinc, but not magnesium as it doesn't agree with me too much. Please, let me know your opinions on this. Thank you and keep well!
Posted by doxogenic boy on October 26, 2013, at 9:43:17
In reply to Is Wellbutrin (Bupropion) a glutamate releaser?, posted by ssplash on October 25, 2013, at 6:32:04
Here is an abstract about glutamate and bupropion:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21216268
Prog Neuropsychopharmacol Biol Psychiatry. 2011 Mar 30;35(2):598-606. doi: 10.1016/j.pnpbp.2010.12.029. Epub 2011 Jan 7.
Inhibition of glutamate release by bupropion in rat cerebral cortex nerve terminals.
Lin TY, Yang TT, Lu CW, Wang SJ.
SourceDepartment of Anesthesiology, Far-Eastern Memorial Hospital, Pan-Chiao, Taipei County 220, Taiwan.
AbstractCentral glutamate neurotransmission has been postulated to play a role in pathophysiology of depression and in the mechanism of antidepressants. The present study was undertaken to elucidate the effect and the possible mechanism of bupropion, an atypical antidepressant, on endogenous glutamate release in nerve terminals of rat cerebral cortex (synaptosomes). Result showed that bupropion exhibited a dose-dependent inhibition of 4-aminopyridine (4-AP)-evoked release of glutamate. The effect of bupropion on the evoked glutamate release was prevented by the chelating the intrasynaptosomal Ca(2+) ions, and by the vesicular transporter inhibitor, but was insensitive to the glutamate transporter inhibitor. Bupropion decreased depolarization-induced increase in [Ca(2+)](C), whereas it did not alter the resting synaptosomal membrane potential or 4-AP-mediated depolarization. The effect of bupropion on evoked glutamate release was abolished by the N-, P- and Q-type Ca(2+) channel blocker, but not by the ryanodine receptor blocker, or the mitochondrial Na(+)/Ca(2+) exchanger blocker. In addition, the inhibitory effect of bupropion on evoked glutamate release was prevented by the mitogen-activated/extracellular signal-regulated kinase kinase (MEK) inhibitors. Western blot analyses showed that bupropion significantly decreased the 4-AP-induced phosphorylation of extracellular signal-regulated kinase 1 and 2 (ERK1/2), and this effect also was blocked by MEK inhibitor. These results are the first to suggest that, in rat cerebrocortical nerve terminals, bupropion suppresses voltage-dependent Ca(2+) channel and MEK/ERK activity and in so doing inhibits evoked glutamate release. This finding may provide important information regarding the beneficial effects of bupropion in the brain.
- doxogenic
Posted by ssplash on October 26, 2013, at 11:16:21
In reply to Re: Is Wellbutrin (Bupropion) a glutamate releaser? » ssplash, posted by doxogenic boy on October 26, 2013, at 9:43:17
> Here is an abstract about glutamate and bupropion:
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21216268
>
> Prog Neuropsychopharmacol Biol Psychiatry. 2011 Mar 30;35(2):598-606. doi: 10.1016/j.pnpbp.2010.12.029. Epub 2011 Jan 7.
> Inhibition of glutamate release by bupropion in rat cerebral cortex nerve terminals.
> Lin TY, Yang TT, Lu CW, Wang SJ.
> Source
>
> Department of Anesthesiology, Far-Eastern Memorial Hospital, Pan-Chiao, Taipei County 220, Taiwan.
> Abstract
>
> Central glutamate neurotransmission has been postulated to play a role in pathophysiology of depression and in the mechanism of antidepressants. The present study was undertaken to elucidate the effect and the possible mechanism of bupropion, an atypical antidepressant, on endogenous glutamate release in nerve terminals of rat cerebral cortex (synaptosomes). Result showed that bupropion exhibited a dose-dependent inhibition of 4-aminopyridine (4-AP)-evoked release of glutamate. The effect of bupropion on the evoked glutamate release was prevented by the chelating the intrasynaptosomal Ca(2+) ions, and by the vesicular transporter inhibitor, but was insensitive to the glutamate transporter inhibitor. Bupropion decreased depolarization-induced increase in [Ca(2+)](C), whereas it did not alter the resting synaptosomal membrane potential or 4-AP-mediated depolarization. The effect of bupropion on evoked glutamate release was abolished by the N-, P- and Q-type Ca(2+) channel blocker, but not by the ryanodine receptor blocker, or the mitochondrial Na(+)/Ca(2+) exchanger blocker. In addition, the inhibitory effect of bupropion on evoked glutamate release was prevented by the mitogen-activated/extracellular signal-regulated kinase kinase (MEK) inhibitors. Western blot analyses showed that bupropion significantly decreased the 4-AP-induced phosphorylation of extracellular signal-regulated kinase 1 and 2 (ERK1/2), and this effect also was blocked by MEK inhibitor. These results are the first to suggest that, in rat cerebrocortical nerve terminals, bupropion suppresses voltage-dependent Ca(2+) channel and MEK/ERK activity and in so doing inhibits evoked glutamate release. This finding may provide important information regarding the beneficial effects of bupropion in the brain.
>
> - doxogenicHi, Doxogenic boy. Thank you so much for your message. I can't get rid of this headache, but it might just be what some people say, that sunifiram depletes the brain of choline. I'm taking Alpha GPC, and I'll check and see if Lamictal worsens the possible loss of choline and stop that for a while until the headache is gone. Otherwise, I really don't understand what's going on. And it just happened minutes after taking the sunifiram about .a days ago, and still hasn't gone away. Thanks again!
Posted by doxogenic boy on October 26, 2013, at 11:33:39
In reply to Is Wellbutrin (Bupropion) a glutamate releaser?, posted by ssplash on October 26, 2013, at 11:16:21
Hi.
Thanks for your positive words. I hope you find something that works for your headache.- doxogenic
Posted by thoroughbredmom on October 31, 2013, at 23:49:22
In reply to Is Wellbutrin (Bupropion) a glutamate releaser?, posted by ssplash on October 26, 2013, at 11:16:21
I don't know about the meds but I do know it's possible to trigger glutamate sensitivity even through food. You might consider eliminating sources of free glutamate from your food for a while and see if it helps. Here's a list of sources: http://stroyan.net/lisasblog/category/nutrition/excitotoxins/I've gotten my migraines down from close-to-constant to every few months, with removal of a lot of sources of (free) glutamate.
Posted by SLS on November 1, 2013, at 5:02:14
In reply to Re: Is Wellbutrin (Bupropion) a glutamate releaser? » ssplash, posted by doxogenic boy on October 26, 2013, at 9:43:17
This is a pretty big WOW!
> Here is an abstract about glutamate and bupropion:
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21216268
>
> Prog Neuropsychopharmacol Biol Psychiatry. 2011 Mar 30;35(2):598-606. doi: 10.1016/j.pnpbp.2010.12.029. Epub 2011 Jan 7.
> Inhibition of glutamate release by bupropion in rat cerebral cortex nerve terminals.
> Lin TY, Yang TT, Lu CW, Wang SJ.
> Source
>
> Department of Anesthesiology, Far-Eastern Memorial Hospital, Pan-Chiao, Taipei County 220, Taiwan.
> Abstract
>
> Central glutamate neurotransmission has been postulated to play a role in pathophysiology of depression and in the mechanism of antidepressants. The present study was undertaken to elucidate the effect and the possible mechanism of bupropion, an atypical antidepressant, on endogenous glutamate release in nerve terminals of rat cerebral cortex (synaptosomes). Result showed that bupropion exhibited a dose-dependent inhibition of 4-aminopyridine (4-AP)-evoked release of glutamate. The effect of bupropion on the evoked glutamate release was prevented by the chelating the intrasynaptosomal Ca(2+) ions, and by the vesicular transporter inhibitor, but was insensitive to the glutamate transporter inhibitor. Bupropion decreased depolarization-induced increase in [Ca(2+)](C), whereas it did not alter the resting synaptosomal membrane potential or 4-AP-mediated depolarization. The effect of bupropion on evoked glutamate release was abolished by the N-, P- and Q-type Ca(2+) channel blocker, but not by the ryanodine receptor blocker, or the mitochondrial Na(+)/Ca(2+) exchanger blocker. In addition, the inhibitory effect of bupropion on evoked glutamate release was prevented by the mitogen-activated/extracellular signal-regulated kinase kinase (MEK) inhibitors. Western blot analyses showed that bupropion significantly decreased the 4-AP-induced phosphorylation of extracellular signal-regulated kinase 1 and 2 (ERK1/2), and this effect also was blocked by MEK inhibitor. These results are the first to suggest that, in rat cerebrocortical nerve terminals, bupropion suppresses voltage-dependent Ca(2+) channel and MEK/ERK activity and in so doing inhibits evoked glutamate release. This finding may provide important information regarding the beneficial effects of bupropion in the brain.
>
> - doxogenic
Posted by ssplash on November 1, 2013, at 10:53:10
In reply to Re: Is Wellbutrin (Bupropion) a glutamate releaser?, posted by thoroughbredmom on October 31, 2013, at 23:49:22
>
> I don't know about the meds but I do know it's possible to trigger glutamate sensitivity even through food. You might consider eliminating sources of free glutamate from your food for a while and see if it helps. Here's a list of sources: http://stroyan.net/lisasblog/category/nutrition/excitotoxins/
>
> I've gotten my migraines down from close-to-constant to every few months, with removal of a lot of sources of (free) glutamate.
>
>This is great, Thoroughbredmom. I'm checking it out right now! Cheers, and I hope you feel better now. Are you migraine free now? :) That's great. Do you think you've located the trigger for it? Thank you and take care!
Posted by doxogenic boy on November 2, 2013, at 9:22:27
In reply to Re: Is Wellbutrin (Bupropion) a glutamate releaser? » doxogenic boy, posted by SLS on November 1, 2013, at 5:02:14
Thanks for your response.
- doxogenic
Posted by thoroughbredmom on November 2, 2013, at 9:27:00
In reply to Is Wellbutrin (Bupropion) a glutamate releaser?, posted by ssplash on November 1, 2013, at 10:53:10
Yes, I absolutely know that it is what triggers my migraines. I still get them every few months because it's impossible to eat out at new places without getting exposure, but I can almost always find the cause. Also, fluctuating progesterone levels can trigger migraines if I've had even slight exposure, so I used to get one at the same time every month, but that has decreased.
I became supersensitive literally overnight. My son is also fairly sensitive, but he gets mood disturbances rather than migraines. He is the one I am researching Wellbutrin for.
The good news is that there are lots of foods I can eat, but I've had to give up almost all processed food. We do have one brand of pizza, 3 brands of ice cream, and a couple brands of bread. (Glutamate and gluten are not related).
There are two ways you can go to figure out if this is your issue. You can eliminate the top 6-10 sources, see if it helps, and then eliminate more if it does. don't assume anything is safe if it has a label or even if it's not organic. Read, read, read. For example, butter is usually safe for me, but recently I had a horrible migraine from natural flavor in Walmart unsalted butter) Or you can build your diet from the bottom up. That is more work, but also more reliable. You might want to look at Deb's test diet on MSGmyth.com. Most people will not react to everything on the list. So you will be able to slowly try out new foods by trial and error, once you have gotten the baseline. One more thing to note is that often when you take out the worst sources (anything that says the word glutamate, or "protein" on the label, yeast except in yeast-risen breads, malt and maltodextrin, and carageenan) you probably will become sensitive to things lower on the list. It's a natural reaction when the body has been protecting himself from the worst ones. But that will decrease over time.
Posted by ssplash on November 2, 2013, at 9:59:18
In reply to Re: Is Wellbutrin (Bupropion) a glutamate releaser?, posted by thoroughbredmom on November 2, 2013, at 9:27:00
> Yes, I absolutely know that it is what triggers my migraines. I still get them every few months because it's impossible to eat out at new places without getting exposure, but I can almost always find the cause. Also, fluctuating progesterone levels can trigger migraines if I've had even slight exposure, so I used to get one at the same time every month, but that has decreased.
>
> I became supersensitive literally overnight. My son is also fairly sensitive, but he gets mood disturbances rather than migraines. He is the one I am researching Wellbutrin for.
>
> The good news is that there are lots of foods I can eat, but I've had to give up almost all processed food. We do have one brand of pizza, 3 brands of ice cream, and a couple brands of bread. (Glutamate and gluten are not related).
>
> There are two ways you can go to figure out if this is your issue. You can eliminate the top 6-10 sources, see if it helps, and then eliminate more if it does. don't assume anything is safe if it has a label or even if it's not organic. Read, read, read. For example, butter is usually safe for me, but recently I had a horrible migraine from natural flavor in Walmart unsalted butter) Or you can build your diet from the bottom up. That is more work, but also more reliable. You might want to look at Deb's test diet on MSGmyth.com. Most people will not react to everything on the list. So you will be able to slowly try out new foods by trial and error, once you have gotten the baseline. One more thing to note is that often when you take out the worst sources (anything that says the word glutamate, or "protein" on the label, yeast except in yeast-risen breads, malt and maltodextrin, and carageenan) you probably will become sensitive to things lower on the list. It's a natural reaction when the body has been protecting himself from the worst ones. But that will decrease over time.
>
>Thank you so much for the reassurance, Thoroughbredmom. I will definitely research on this issue. I will let everyone know if there are any improvements on my state. Sometimes it gets better with coffee, and I hope that perhaps theanine and Alpha GPC contribute to the ameloration of my symptoms. However, I think it's time to speak to a neurologist. Thanks again and keep well, I hope you son is also doing great right now.
This is the end of the thread.
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