Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1052158

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ECT-Advice Needed

Posted by babbler20 on October 13, 2013, at 22:51:36

I have spent the last 21 years trying to treat my depression, insomnia, and anxiety with medications. I'm ashamed that I spent so long waiting to get better. I never moved on. I assumed I would start being productive once my depression got better. I'm in my early 30's and I'm still depressed and highly anxious. I've ruined every good opportunity that has been thrown my way. I'm at the end of my rope here and I'm thinking of giving ECT a shot before I check out. Has anyone out there had ECT? How many treatments did it take before you felt better? Did you relapse shortly after? Have you noticed any long-term effects? Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed

Posted by alexandra_k on October 14, 2013, at 0:59:11

In reply to ECT-Advice Needed, posted by babbler20 on October 13, 2013, at 22:51:36

> I have spent the last 21 years trying to treat my depression, insomnia, and anxiety with medications. I'm ashamed that I spent so long waiting to get better. I never moved on. I assumed I would start being productive once my depression got better. I'm in my early 30's and I'm still depressed and highly anxious. I've ruined every good opportunity that has been thrown my way. I'm at the end of my rope here and I'm thinking of giving ECT a shot before I check out. Has anyone out there had ECT? How many treatments did it take before you felt better? Did you relapse shortly after? Have you noticed any long-term effects? Any advice would be appreciated.

hey.

welcome to babble. i'm sorry about what i said above... about the headphones... i can rant at length about the ongoing saga of headphones... i do appreciate your taking the time to respond to one of my posts, though :-)

i... often feel like i've ruined opportunities, too. i'm sorry to hear that you feel that way. i have tried ect. i... apparently objectively it did help me. i don't know that subjectively it did... maybe it did... i think... from memory... i was fairly catatonic. i think it got me moving about a bit more. i rediscovered the milo. spent more time in the smoking room. heh. it is certainly worth a try before making the decisiont o check out. i... sometimes i wonder if i have negative long term effects... but... i think i just do have a weird brain. probably always have done. not sure what to put down to the ect..

i think... you know... i think in hindsight it did help me. yes.

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed » babbler20

Posted by Emme_V2 on October 14, 2013, at 7:02:38

In reply to ECT-Advice Needed, posted by babbler20 on October 13, 2013, at 22:51:36

> I have spent the last 21 years trying to treat my depression, insomnia, and anxiety with medications. I'm ashamed that I spent so long waiting to get better. I never moved on. I assumed I would start being productive once my depression got better. I'm in my early 30's and I'm still depressed and highly anxious. I've ruined every good opportunity that has been thrown my way. I'm at the end of my rope here and I'm thinking of giving ECT a shot before I check out. Has anyone out there had ECT? How many treatments did it take before you felt better? Did you relapse shortly after? Have you noticed any long-term effects? Any advice would be appreciated.

I've never tried ECT myself, but I have seen it turn the corner for a couple of people. Also deep rTMS has been approved for depression recently. If rTMS or deep rTMS are offered anywhere within reasonable traveling distance for you, that might be worth looking into.

Try not to beat yourself up too badly and don't check out just yet. Depression is a vicious enemy to fight. Are you also getting counseling to help you along? It's valuable to have someone who can walk the road with you.

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed » babbler20

Posted by SLS on October 14, 2013, at 7:20:32

In reply to ECT-Advice Needed, posted by babbler20 on October 13, 2013, at 22:51:36

If you were to take an antidepressant medication, you would not stop taking it as soon as you feel better, otherwise you would relapse. The same is true of ECT. Either way, maintenance treatment is usually necessary.

I had 15 ECT treatments without success. This included bilateral electrode placement.

You were under 10 years old when your depression first emerged? If this is true, then you will have to seriously consider a diagnosis of bipolar disorder and begin to incorporate mood stabilizers and perhaps antipsychotics into your treatment regime. People with bipolar disorder are often refractory to antidepressant monotherapy.


- Scott

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed

Posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2013, at 9:58:11

In reply to Re: ECT-Advice Needed » babbler20, posted by SLS on October 14, 2013, at 7:20:32

I noticed the same under l0 years old? Then is it possible there was some emotional triggering event? How's your family life and how was your childhood. No one's is perfect. But sometimes some are very troubling. Phillipa

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed

Posted by babbler20 on October 14, 2013, at 20:16:16

In reply to Re: ECT-Advice Needed » babbler20, posted by Emme_V2 on October 14, 2013, at 7:02:38

> > I have spent the last 21 years trying to treat my depression, insomnia, and anxiety with medications. I'm ashamed that I spent so long waiting to get better. I never moved on. I assumed I would start being productive once my depression got better. I'm in my early 30's and I'm still depressed and highly anxious. I've ruined every good opportunity that has been thrown my way. I'm at the end of my rope here and I'm thinking of giving ECT a shot before I check out. Has anyone out there had ECT? How many treatments did it take before you felt better? Did you relapse shortly after? Have you noticed any long-term effects? Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> I've never tried ECT myself, but I have seen it turn the corner for a couple of people. Also deep rTMS has been approved for depression recently. If rTMS or deep rTMS are offered anywhere within reasonable traveling distance for you, that might be worth looking into.
>
> Try not to beat yourself up too badly and don't check out just yet. Depression is a vicious enemy to fight. Are you also getting counseling to help you along? It's valuable to have someone who can walk the road with you.
>
>
>
>

Hi, thanks for sharing your experience. I am getting counseling. I don't mean to be negative, but I feel like I will feel this way forever. I have been given every privilege in life that anyone could ever want. I went to one of the best colleges in the country, I have traveled the world, I've had a very high-paying job, but nothing has ever really made me feel better. Hopefully things will change.

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed

Posted by babbler20 on October 14, 2013, at 20:24:40

In reply to Re: ECT-Advice Needed, posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2013, at 9:58:11

Thanks for your concern. My depression started when I was ten. My parents were getting divorced and I spent my childhood being passed from parent to parent until I graduated from High School. I didn't grow up feeling very loved, but I didn't have the worst childhood. Some people suffer severe abuse and neglect. My parents didn't completely neglect me, but they could have shown more interest. My dad hit me a few times, but I wasn't severely abused or sexually abused. I have noticed that some of the most unhappy people I've met, have the same background. They grew up very wealthy and their parent's were high-acheivers. They could never feel successful because they had a very distorted view of what success was. I've had the same issue my entire life and I've found it impossible to re-define my concept of success

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed

Posted by babbler20 on October 14, 2013, at 20:46:41

In reply to Re: ECT-Advice Needed » babbler20, posted by SLS on October 14, 2013, at 7:20:32

> If you were to take an antidepressant medication, you would not stop taking it as soon as you feel better, otherwise you would relapse. The same is true of ECT. Either way, maintenance treatment is usually necessary.
>
> I had 15 ECT treatments without success. This included bilateral electrode placement.
>
> You were under 10 years old when your depression first emerged? If this is true, then you will have to seriously consider a diagnosis of bipolar disorder and begin to incorporate mood stabilizers and perhaps antipsychotics into your treatment regime. People with bipolar disorder are often refractory to antidepressant monotherapy.
>
>
> - Scott

Hi, I was 10 when it first emerged. I tried lamictal and lithium once, but I didn't benefit from either. I guess I could try some of the other not-so-fun ones. Thanks for the suggestion

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed

Posted by babbler20 on October 14, 2013, at 20:48:27

In reply to Re: ECT-Advice Needed, posted by alexandra_k on October 14, 2013, at 0:59:11

Thanks for sharing your experience Alexandra. I may end up pursuing ECT. I'll keep you posted

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed » babbler20

Posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2013, at 21:46:44

In reply to Re: ECT-Advice Needed, posted by babbler20 on October 14, 2013, at 20:24:40

Actually that is so far you have not been able to redefine success. To me this sounds like since sounds as if you can afford it a time to submerge yourself in seeing a good therapist. Which kind only you can define. But someone possibly with a similar background that is a good fit. Lots of talking as the world is changing. I feel you are extremely lucky to be money successful. Could it be time to share some of this with those with less to gain a feeling of just feeling good about yourself? Agree about childhood also. Take my word for it mine was worse. No physical abuse just a lot of sickness of parents and death of Mother. Phillipa

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed

Posted by Twinleaf on October 14, 2013, at 22:33:34

In reply to Re: ECT-Advice Needed » babbler20, posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2013, at 21:46:44

I would also recommend rTMS or deep TMS over ECT. The deep TMS is new, but does sound both safe and very promising, if you can find it. There were supposed to be 100 new units in the US in 2013, but so far I have only heard of two, both in the midWest.

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed

Posted by babbler20 on October 14, 2013, at 22:35:56

In reply to Re: ECT-Advice Needed » babbler20, posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2013, at 21:46:44

Hi, I recently started seeing a therapist that is a great fit. You absolutely have to have self-confidence otherwise success is meaningless. I'm sorry to hear that you had such a difficult childhood. I think we are likely to find more happiness in our relationships with others rather than with a bottle of pills.

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed » babbler20

Posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2013, at 23:01:56

In reply to Re: ECT-Advice Needed, posted by babbler20 on October 14, 2013, at 22:35:56

My point. Work out whatever is the problem as I don't see the answer in pills either. I've come to terms years ago with my childhood. No ones fault just the way it happened. Comparison to the one you had was reason for the details. Phillipa

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed

Posted by alexandra_k on October 15, 2013, at 2:19:59

In reply to Re: ECT-Advice Needed » babbler20, posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2013, at 23:01:56

i think smart, sensitive people have more of a capacity to suffer. it is partly genetic... how reactive the nervous system is... but it surely does seem to be the case that suffering isn't so obviously correlated to relatively objective things (like poverty or abuse or whatever). seems to be something different going on.

i think sometimes of horses or dogs... i used to have this thing for border collies. very smart. very talented (with respect to ability to be trained to elite level obedience, agility etc - even retrieving once they opened that up to non-traditionally hunting breeds). also batshit crazy ahaha. when not kept busy outsmarting sheep all day (or being trained / exercised and crated rather than kept as a pet), at least.

i'm glad to hear that you have a counsellor who you feel you fit well with. maybe she can help you figure out what might make you feel happier about your life?

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed » babbler20

Posted by SLS on October 15, 2013, at 7:45:38

In reply to Re: ECT-Advice Needed, posted by babbler20 on October 14, 2013, at 22:35:56

> Hi, I recently started seeing a therapist that is a great fit. You absolutely have to have self-confidence otherwise success is meaningless. I'm sorry to hear that you had such a difficult childhood. I think we are likely to find more happiness in our relationships with others rather than with a bottle of pills.

If you suffer from a biologically-driven depressive brain disorder, it is not an either-or situation. Even a psychologically "healthy" individual will suffer damage in the wake of one of these illnesses. In addition, one must determine what was the history of psychosocial stress, either in childhood or immediately prior to the onset of the depressive episode. I have used psychotherapy to take care of both the contribution of psychosocial stress to the evolution of my mental illness and as remediation for the mess the illness left me with. I think that for most people accurately diagnosed with major depressive disorder (MDD), a bottle of pills can make someone feel and function much better so as to allow for more rapid gains in psychotherapy. A bottle of pills might be necessary for happiness, but it is not by itself sufficient to create happiness. Happiness must come from within. Psychotherapy can help facilitate this. The combination of pharmacotherapy and psychotherapy might be therapeutically synergistic.


- Scott

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed

Posted by Christ_empowered on October 15, 2013, at 11:45:59

In reply to Re: ECT-Advice Needed » babbler20, posted by SLS on October 15, 2013, at 7:45:38


I've had 2 rounds of ECT, both heavy, both involuntary. I don't recommend ECT to **anyone**.

I'm not saying it will annihilate you. Some people seem to benefit, at least in the short-term. I'm just saying that its not all that effective, it tends to be expensive, and the relapse rate is high. Then there are horror stories (I was one, until fairly recently).

Whatever you decide...good luck!

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed

Posted by babbler20 on October 15, 2013, at 12:34:51

In reply to Re: ECT-Advice Needed, posted by Christ_empowered on October 15, 2013, at 11:45:59

Thanks Christ. I appreciate the feedback

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed » Christ_empowered

Posted by SLS on October 15, 2013, at 18:01:44

In reply to Re: ECT-Advice Needed, posted by Christ_empowered on October 15, 2013, at 11:45:59

> and the relapse rate is high.

Is this true when maintenance treatments are administered?

I don't like ECT, but you missed the point of my previous post.

Speaking of horror stories, what was your experience with ECT? How did it resolve?


- Scott

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed

Posted by baseball55 on October 15, 2013, at 19:08:47

In reply to Re: ECT-Advice Needed » Christ_empowered, posted by SLS on October 15, 2013, at 18:01:44

I know people who swear by ECT. I had both unipolar and bipolar ECT and it did nothing at all for my depression. ECT is a very intense process. You are administered a paralytic, with an aid pumping oxygen into your lungs since you can't breathe. Then you are put under general anesthesia. It's quite an ordeal. You awake confused and not knowing where you are. When I had bilateral ECT, this confusion and memory loss lasted for days.

ECT seems to me a last resort. If you haven't tried drugs, therapy, self-care, etc, then try those first.

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed

Posted by alexandra_k on October 15, 2013, at 19:52:13

In reply to Re: ECT-Advice Needed, posted by baseball55 on October 15, 2013, at 19:08:47

i had bilateral, too.

one idea is that the memory loss associated with the ect is at least part of what is theraputic about it. you forget the reasons why you are depressed, or something like that.

they only discovered it because they found that the depressives who had epilepsy said they often felt better after they had seizures. so then they thought of intentionally inducing seizures. and there we have it. the introduction of muscle relaxant was significant.

i had some weird motor firing sequence patterns. when i started at the gym. basic inability to do basic movement patterns like squat or deadlift or whatever. i've learned that this is actually quite common for a lot of people... but i had it big time. i did wonder whether ect might have messed up my firing sequences. trauma on impact probably did similar.

i felt... i remember feeling awful immediately after. confused. floaty. something was wrong - but i couldn't pinpoint quite what. helpless. nurses etc were more careful with me. because now they had a reason they could understand. doctors etc. everyone showed an intense interest in how i felt all of a sudden. in being careful with me. i wonder if that is what is curative.

oh. one weird thing... this girl i went to school with. i didn't know her very well... but knew her a bit. she was training to be a nurse and i caught her on her rotation. i didn't say anything and neither did she... but that weirded me out and saddened me a great deal. that she was there for part of it. it was like... she stood in for everyone from high school. shame. embarrassment. vague feelings of that. because she was there. that was just for one treatment though. but piecing that together... remembering who she was and why she was there.

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed » baseball55

Posted by SLS on October 15, 2013, at 20:15:11

In reply to Re: ECT-Advice Needed, posted by baseball55 on October 15, 2013, at 19:08:47

> I know people who swear by ECT. I had both unipolar and bipolar ECT and it did nothing at all for my depression. ECT is a very intense process. You are administered a paralytic, with an aid pumping oxygen into your lungs since you can't breathe. Then you are put under general anesthesia. It's quite an ordeal. You awake confused and not knowing where you are. When I had bilateral ECT, this confusion and memory loss lasted for days.
>
> ECT seems to me a last resort. If you haven't tried drugs, therapy, self-care, etc, then try those first.

Yes, I experienced a profound brain fog (cognitive impairments) that lasted for 3 - 4 weeks after my last bilateral treatment. It was disconcerting, but it was not what I would call a horror story. I have heard stories of people who have lost years of their schooling to ECT-induced memory loss.


- Scott

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed

Posted by sigismund on October 16, 2013, at 18:26:27

In reply to Re: ECT-Advice Needed » baseball55, posted by SLS on October 15, 2013, at 20:15:11

A friend who had it said that, apart from not helping with the depression, it produced a disconcerting feeling of strangeness in everything, familiar objects seeming unfamiliar.

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed

Posted by hadmattress on October 17, 2013, at 2:27:33

In reply to ECT-Advice Needed, posted by babbler20 on October 13, 2013, at 22:51:36

You might look into the work of Andy Cutler.

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed

Posted by alchemy on October 26, 2013, at 0:05:08

In reply to Re: ECT-Advice Needed, posted by hadmattress on October 17, 2013, at 2:27:33

It helped me with a couple of horrible depression episodes but not on some other times I've tried it.
The first time I tried it it only took 6 before I felt good for the first time. I think usually it's more like 10. It affected my short term memory, but there were some days when I would do it in the morning and still go to work the same day.
However...the "high" I got from it faded somewhat within a month. But I did not return to the black hole that I was in before my series. If it works for you, you should do maintenance treatment like once a month because of your chronic depression.
You should give it a shot. There are some where it changes their life.
(I didn't get results from rTMS unfortunately)

 

Re: ECT-Advice Needed » babbler20

Posted by Ruby2 on November 2, 2013, at 10:38:52

In reply to ECT-Advice Needed, posted by babbler20 on October 13, 2013, at 22:51:36

Just a quick word--I've done a round of ECT and it did help me. I was hospitalized during the treatment for severe depression and remained there for the 3+ weeks of treatment.

Even better for me, though, has been TMS (trans-magnetic stimulation), which is non-invasive and for me it begins working almost immediately. The downside is many insurance companies don't cover it and it is expensive. But it, more than ECT, has saved my life. Literally.

Best of luck to you!
Ruby


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