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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 23 to 47 of 53. Go back in thread:
Posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 17:53:27
In reply to Lou's reply-debbi » Phil, posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2013, at 16:22:15
Posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 17:59:23
In reply to Thoughts on AAPs please... (nm), posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 17:53:27
I thought it might be important to restore the original subject line in order to keep it relevant.
- Scott
Posted by doxogenic boy on September 17, 2013, at 18:09:45
In reply to Re: Interactions Antiepileptics/Antipsychotics » SLS, posted by doxogenic boy on September 17, 2013, at 14:33:42
> I haven't thought of before that most drug interactions are harmless, and that knowlegde of (some of) the potential hazardous interactions are based on limited evidence.
Just to clarify my statement above: I did not mean that harmful drug interactions don't exist.
- doxogenic
Posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 18:20:26
In reply to Thoughts on AAPs please..., posted by Sheilac on September 16, 2013, at 6:18:12
For me, I find the idea of taking an AAP long term to be unappealing. However, I would gladly take one if it were it to work for me. I have been taking Abilify 10 mg/day for over 10 years. I do better on it than off it. My guess is that I will continue taking it as long as it continues to help me, or until a selective DA D3 partial agonist becomes available.
Have you ever tried taking valproate (Depakote)? It can work well for mixed-state bipolar disorder, and may be combined with oxcarbazepine (Trileptal). You might consider talking to your doctor about switching from oxcarbazepine to valproate rather than taking both at the same time.
- Scott
Posted by Sheilac on September 17, 2013, at 19:20:38
In reply to Re: Thoughts on AAPs please... » Sheilac, posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 18:20:26
Scott, Trileptal & Depakote depressed me. In low doses they are great to get me through a bad hypomanic patch, but full time I would totally have to have some sort of med that helps with depression. Which rules out typical ADs - since I have such bad side effects.
However, I have learned a lot recently on this board (it only took years!). I have learned from all the conversations with everyone that my irritability & agitation is a form of hypomania (which I knew), but more importantly, a form of a mixed state. Cycling I guess.
I have been in denial about having mixed states and cycling. I just always thought of myself as constantly irritated, depressed or too high. NOW, I understand those are hallmarks of a mixed BP, even though my primary diagnosis is BPII.
Can you be BPII with mixed?
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2013, at 21:33:16
In reply to Re: Interactions Antiepileptics/Antipsychotics, posted by doxogenic boy on September 17, 2013, at 18:09:45
> > I haven't thought of before that most drug interactions are harmless, and that knowlegde of (some of) the potential hazardous interactions are based on limited evidence.
>
> Just to clarify my statement above: I did not mean that harmful drug interactions don't exist.
>
> - doxogenicdox,
You wrote the above. There are drug interactions that could lead to death. Last year alone, it is generally accepted that psychiatric drugs caused 42000 deaths. It is generally accepted that taking drugs together can increase the harmful event exponentially. In your case, the drugs listed here that you take could cause serotonin syndrome that could lead to death. And there also could be irregular heart beats that could lead to death. I have the following questions:
Posted by SLS on September 17, 2013, at 22:17:58
In reply to Re: Thoughts on AAPs -Scott, posted by Sheilac on September 17, 2013, at 19:20:38
> Scott, Trileptal & Depakote depressed me.
I would then consider Topamax or Keppra. I have seen Topamax effectively and completely treat BPII mixed states at a dosage of 100 mg/day. With Topamax, it is important to start low and titrate slowly. If you do this, it will help you to avoid cognitive impairments.
Which AAPs work best for you?
- Scott
Posted by 10derheart on September 17, 2013, at 22:24:30
In reply to Lou's reply-debbi » Phil, posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2013, at 16:22:15
>> P,
YOu wrote,[...a {hideous} song...]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here.Phil means that he doesn't like the song?
A love song, per songwriter.
Ms. Boone (not original artist) always said she thinking about/singing to God when she performed it.
Posted by Phil on September 18, 2013, at 14:21:54
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-debbi » Lou Pilder, posted by 10derheart on September 17, 2013, at 22:24:30
The song was/is awful and every station had it on heavy rotation. I put that song in the same category as Muskrat Love, Feelings, and Afternoon Delight. Actually Afternoon Delight beats the others.
We used to get requests to play Feelings and the singer would say, sorry never heard of it. Have you noticed that we're a rock band and not a schlock band? :))
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 18, 2013, at 19:39:11
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-debbi » 10derheart, posted by Phil on September 18, 2013, at 14:21:54
> The song was/is awful and every station had it on heavy rotation. I put that song in the same category as Muskrat Love, Feelings, and Afternoon Delight. Actually Afternoon Delight beats the others.
> We used to get requests to play Feelings and the singer would say, sorry never heard of it. Have you noticed that we're a rock band and not a schlock band? :))Phil,
Then how does this song rate? Let's welcome the Bangles
Lou
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABhOKkwrOLk
Posted by Phil on September 18, 2013, at 21:21:25
In reply to Lou's response-eturnul » Phil, posted by Lou Pilder on September 18, 2013, at 19:39:11
Lou, If there's anything bad there, it's made up for by Susanna Hoffs singing it. I like the band on video. :)
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 19, 2013, at 14:09:44
In reply to Re: Lou's response-eturnul » Lou Pilder, posted by Phil on September 18, 2013, at 21:21:25
> Lou, If there's anything bad there, it's made up for by Susanna Hoffs singing it. I like the band on video. :)
Phil,
HOw does this one rate?
Lou
Let's welcome Linda Ronstadt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMuDRBxod1M
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 19, 2013, at 14:13:04
In reply to Lou's reply-ag+au, posted by Lou Pilder on September 19, 2013, at 14:09:44
> > Lou, If there's anything bad there, it's made up for by Susanna Hoffs singing it. I like the band on video. :)
>
> Phil,
> HOw does this one rate?
> Lou
> Let's welcome Linda Ronstadt
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMuDRBxod1Mcorrection:
Lou
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMuDRBxodlM
Posted by Phil on September 19, 2013, at 22:34:25
In reply to Lou's reply-ag+au, posted by Lou Pilder on September 19, 2013, at 14:09:44
Good call Lou. Have you ever heard her sing in Spanish? Amazing woman.
I just saw an interview lately and I think she has MS. She may be having money problems even though she sold so many albums. As she said, the songwriters make the money.
I like your musical side Lou.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 20, 2013, at 11:15:50
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-ag+au » Lou Pilder, posted by Phil on September 19, 2013, at 22:34:25
> Good call Lou. Have you ever heard her sing in Spanish? Amazing woman.
> I just saw an interview lately and I think she has MS. She may be having money problems even though she sold so many albums. As she said, the songwriters make the money.
> I like your musical side Lou.
>
Phil,
Linda Ronstadt was amazing. Her roots in music go back to the one that started the music to be what we hear today, and Linda took from him her start.
Here is her start to bring out what was the beginning of what we hear today, that came from him.
Lou
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaignDGbdS0
and then, him that was in the beginning.
http://www.youtube.om/watch?v=XEbhyGJt80c
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 20, 2013, at 11:22:22
In reply to Lou's reply-HW, posted by Lou Pilder on September 20, 2013, at 11:15:50
> > Good call Lou. Have you ever heard her sing in Spanish? Amazing woman.
> > I just saw an interview lately and I think she has MS. She may be having money problems even though she sold so many albums. As she said, the songwriters make the money.
> > I like your musical side Lou.
> >
> Phil,
> Linda Ronstadt was amazing. Her roots in music go back to the one that started the music to be what we hear today, and Linda took from him her start.
> Here is her start to bring out what was the beginning of what we hear today, that came from him.
> Lou
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaignDGbdS0
> and then, him that was in the beginning.
> http://www.youtube.om/watch?v=XEbhyGJt80ccorrection to him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKLI6aSmoI
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 20, 2013, at 11:27:51
In reply to correction:- Lou's reply-HW, posted by Lou Pilder on September 20, 2013, at 11:22:22
> > > Good call Lou. Have you ever heard her sing in Spanish? Amazing woman.
> > > I just saw an interview lately and I think she has MS. She may be having money problems even though she sold so many albums. As she said, the songwriters make the money.
> > > I like your musical side Lou.
> > >
> > Phil,
> > Linda Ronstadt was amazing. Her roots in music go back to the one that started the music to be what we hear today, and Linda took from him her start.
> > Here is her start to bring out what was the beginning of what we hear today, that came from him.
> > Lou
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaignDGbdS0
> > and then, him that was in the beginning.
> > http://www.youtube.om/watch?v=XEbhyGJt80c
>
> correction to him:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKLI6aSmoIcorrection to correction to him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBTTHLQS8UM
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 20, 2013, at 20:00:05
In reply to correction to correction:- Lou's reply-HW, posted by Lou Pilder on September 20, 2013, at 11:27:51
> > > > Good call Lou. Have you ever heard her sing in Spanish? Amazing woman.
> > > > I just saw an interview lately and I think she has MS. She may be having money problems even though she sold so many albums. As she said, the songwriters make the money.
> > > > I like your musical side Lou.
> > > >
> > > Phil,
> > > Linda Ronstadt was amazing. Her roots in music go back to the one that started the music to be what we hear today, and Linda took from him her start.
> > > Here is her start to bring out what was the beginning of what we hear today, that came from him.
> > > Lou
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaignDGbdS0
> > > and then, him that was in the beginning.
> > > http://www.youtube.om/watch?v=XEbhyGJt80c
> >
> > correction to him:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKLI6aSmoI
>
> correction to correction to him:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBTTHLQS8UMPhil,
Lou
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiB0e-ufkPE
then,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMb_7HDWjZo
Posted by phidippus on September 23, 2013, at 12:33:54
In reply to Thoughts on AAPs please..., posted by Sheilac on September 16, 2013, at 6:18:12
Using AAPs long term stunts brain growth. I don't think you have to be schizophrenic to warrant taking these drugs. They can be useful in controlling dopamine issues in many disorders, such as OCD.
Eric
Posted by SLS on September 24, 2013, at 5:18:41
In reply to Re: Thoughts on AAPs please... » Sheilac, posted by phidippus on September 23, 2013, at 12:33:54
> Using AAPs long term stunts brain growth.
I didn't know that. Is there some brain structures in particular that are affected? Is this more of a concern with younger people - perhaps during pruning?
- Scott
Posted by phidippus on September 24, 2013, at 12:33:23
In reply to Re: Thoughts on AAPs please... » phidippus, posted by SLS on September 24, 2013, at 5:18:41
Here's a good read: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mad-in-america/201012/do-psychiatric-medications-impair-normal-brain-development
Eric
Posted by b2chica on September 24, 2013, at 14:53:59
In reply to Re: Thoughts on AAPs please... » SLS, posted by phidippus on September 24, 2013, at 12:33:23
i remember reading articles on zyprexa increasing white matter.
i think they studies persons with schizophrenia, though so not sure if can apply. persons WM increased with volume after starting olanzapine.
Posted by SLS on September 24, 2013, at 14:55:03
In reply to Re: Thoughts on AAPs please... » SLS, posted by phidippus on September 24, 2013, at 12:33:23
> Here's a good read: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mad-in-america/201012/do-psychiatric-medications-impair-normal-brain-development
>
> EricHi Eric.
I have not developed a great degree of trust in this author's portrayals of psychobiology. That is not to say that AAPs do not change the trajectory of CNS development. It is hard to imagine that they wouldn't. However, this is nothing but conjecture on my part.
- Scott
Posted by phidippus on September 24, 2013, at 15:38:27
In reply to Re: Thoughts on AAPs please... » phidippus, posted by SLS on September 24, 2013, at 14:55:03
There is more research, however I can't seem to dig any up.
Eric
Posted by doxogenic boy on September 25, 2013, at 15:37:44
In reply to Re: Thoughts on AAPs please... » phidippus, posted by SLS on September 24, 2013, at 14:55:03
Here is an article from Archives of General Psychiatry that shows that antipsychotics decrease brain voume. It is the same with atypical and typical antipsychotics:http://www.power2u.org/downloads/yoa05077_128_137.pdf
Excerpt from article:
Viewed together with data from animal studies, our study suggests that antipsychotics have a
subtle but measurable influence on brain tissue loss over time, suggesting the importance of careful risk-benefit review of dosage and duration of treatment as well as their off-label use.
Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2011;68(2):128-137http://altmentalities.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/cause-for-concern.pdf
Excerpt from article:
Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2011;68(2):126-127. doi:10.1001/archgenpsychiatry.2010.187Since the initiation of antipsychotic drug therapy for schizophrenia,clinical
observations and empirical studies have demonstrated that these medications bring benefit and harm. Consequently, efforts to develop new antipsychotic medications during the past 50 years have been motivated, at least partly, by the desire to enhance the benefit to harm ratio
relative to existing medications.In this issue of the Archives, Ho and colleagues 1 examine one arm of this ratio by asking whether antipsychotic medications contribute to progressive brain volume reductions in schizophrenia. Individuals early in the course of schizophrenia (n = 211) were treated with antipsychotic medications according to standard
clinical practice and followed up longitudinally with clinical assessments and serial magnetic resonance imaging (MRI)scans (between 2 and 5 scans per individual) for a mean of 7 years.
The authors found that the amount of exposure to antipsychotic medication predicted decrements
in cerebral gray and white matter volumes and increased the volume of the putamen. Illness duration and severity were also associated with smaller brain volume measures, but the relationship between antipsychotic medication
use and brain volume remained significant after accounting for the effects of illness severity and
duration and substance abuse history. Interestingly, changes in brain volume with
time were similar for all classes of antipsychotic medications (ie, typical
antipsychotics, atypical [ie, excluding clozapine] antipsychotics,and clozapine).
End quote- doxogenic
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