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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on July 15, 2013, at 7:50:42
When a drug like ketamine shows so much promise, consistently (esp. in hard to treat, resistant and bipolar depression) in clinical trials one wonders why such an option is not currently available.
Think of it, a drug that works quickly and doesn't need to be taken on a daily basis. It is closer to a cure than other drugs have been able to get.
But this is the exact problem. Drug companies don't want us to be well. Ketamine is closer to a cure than all other treatments to date.
Why seek approval for a pill that may only need to be taken a few times a year? They're far more interested in drugs with questionable efficacy and nasty withdrawal syndrome.
Posted by SLS on July 15, 2013, at 8:08:01
In reply to why ketamine is not available, posted by linkadge on July 15, 2013, at 7:50:42
Some ketamine-like drugs currently being developed by Naurex:
------------------------------------
http://www.naurex.com/html/RandD.html
GLYX-132nd and 3rd Generation Programs
Naurex has developed 2nd- and 3rd-generation compounds that modulate the NMDA receptor with a wide variety of partial agonist/antagonist activity profiles. These molecules include a structurally distinct series of orally available small molecules.
These compounds represent the first outputs of Naurex's proprietary NMDAR modulation platform, comprising novel patented chemistry classes with key molecular features. The molecules from this platform have diverse activity profiles with high potential as therapies for a variety of CNS disorders.
The lead molecule from Naurex's 2nd-generation series of compounds is NRX-1074. Preclinical studies of NRX-1074 have shown that it: Is orally bioavailable. Has an in vivo mechanistic signature similar to GLYX-13 with a ketamine-like efficacy signature, including: Rapid onset of antidepressant-like effect, and Long-acting duration of effect. Demonstrates no signs of CNS-related side effects.
Naurexs initial development focus for this fast-acting, potent, orally available compound is in major depression. Naurex expects to file an Investigational New Drug (IND) application for NRX-1074 in early 2013.
Naurex has also identified potential lead molecules from its 3rd-generation series of compounds. These compounds have a different activity profile from the antidepressant compounds and are potentially well-suited to the treatment of schizophrenia, including negative and cognitive symptoms of the disorder. These 3rd-generation molecules are currently in preclinical development.
Naurex is also advancing a number of additional compounds from its 2nd- and 3rd-generation series into preclinical development. These compounds have demonstrated high potential as therapies for various CNS disorders.
Posted by markwell on July 15, 2013, at 8:48:35
In reply to Re: why ketamine is not available » linkadge, posted by SLS on July 15, 2013, at 8:08:01
Scott, Great post. The only problem with these drugs is they are years away and it's so difficult when there's nothing on the very near horizon. There's no way they can or will fast track these clinical trials? The current drugs for depression, particularly bipolar depression , really suck!! Thanks for the post!
Posted by Phillipa on July 15, 2013, at 9:34:14
In reply to Re: why ketamine is not available, posted by markwell on July 15, 2013, at 8:48:35
What about those who have had ketamine IV or IM wouldn't they be an indication as to whether it works or not? Phillipa
Posted by Brot on July 15, 2013, at 10:35:47
In reply to why ketamine is not available, posted by linkadge on July 15, 2013, at 7:50:42
i thought
RO4995819
is a ketamine like drug? info i found its a mGluR 2/3 antagonist. if sources are correct i found.
i get this ad of the study on my facebook page all the time.....
Posted by SLS on July 15, 2013, at 10:37:02
In reply to Re: why ketamine is not available, posted by markwell on July 15, 2013, at 8:48:35
> Scott, Great post. The only problem with these drugs is they are years away and it's so difficult when there's nothing on the very near horizon. There's no way they can or will fast track these clinical trials? The current drugs for depression, particularly bipolar depression , really suck!! Thanks for the post!
I hope no one thinks that I am arguing against the use of ketamine. However, I would like to see some evidence that ketamine can be used effectively using routes of administration other than I.V.
1. Injection.
2. Intranasal.
3. OralI don't have anything against I.V. administration of ketamine. After all, one must undergo multiple sessions with anesthesia for ECT treatments. Ketamine could be used acutely as an initial series of treatments to achieve remission, followed by maintenance treatments.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 15, 2013, at 10:46:16
In reply to Re: why ketamine is not available, posted by Brot on July 15, 2013, at 10:35:47
> i thought
>
> http://www.artdecostudy.com/
>
> RO4995819
>
> is a ketamine like drug? info i found its a mGluR 2/3 antagonist. if sources are correct i found.
> i get this ad of the study on my facebook page all the time.....
Ketamine "clinics" are popping up all over the place. I saw a nice advertisement for a clinic in New York City not too long ago.
- Scott
Posted by Beckett on July 15, 2013, at 13:53:16
In reply to Re: why ketamine is not available, posted by SLS on July 15, 2013, at 10:46:16
How long does an administration of ketamine last?
And I just wonder why ECT comes to my pdoc's mind and ketamine does not...?
Posted by SLS on July 15, 2013, at 15:01:25
In reply to Re: why ketamine is not available, posted by Beckett on July 15, 2013, at 13:53:16
> How long does an administration of ketamine last?
>
> And I just wonder why ECT comes to my pdoc's mind and ketamine does not...?The whole procedure probably takes an hour. The infusion itself (0.1 mg/kg) lasts for 40 minutes.
- Scott
Posted by poser938 on July 15, 2013, at 19:25:26
In reply to why ketamine is not available, posted by linkadge on July 15, 2013, at 7:50:42
But Linkadge, drug companies just want to help!
Haven't you seen their advertisements? All they talk about is how depression is a serious condition and how they're there to
help.I've been told that most people that speak against drug companies are Scientologists, and I'm starting to think that's true!! ;D
I'm sorry, it just hurts my feelings when someone talks bad about drug companies and their medicines like this.
Eli Lilly, Pfizer, Wyeth and all those other guys care.
Posted by Beckett on July 15, 2013, at 19:40:18
In reply to Re: why ketamine is not available » Beckett, posted by SLS on July 15, 2013, at 15:01:25
> > How long does an administration of ketamine last?
> >
> > And I just wonder why ECT comes to my pdoc's mind and ketamine does not...?
>
> The whole procedure probably takes an hour. The infusion itself (0.1 mg/kg) lasts for 40 minutes.
>
>
> - ScottI meant to ask how long between treatments does ketamine last.
Posted by SLS on July 15, 2013, at 20:06:52
In reply to Re: why ketamine is not available » SLS, posted by Beckett on July 15, 2013, at 19:40:18
> > > How long does an administration of ketamine last?
> > >
> > > And I just wonder why ECT comes to my pdoc's mind and ketamine does not...?
> >
> > The whole procedure probably takes an hour. The infusion itself (0.1 mg/kg) lasts for 40 minutes.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> I meant to ask how long between treatments does ketamine last.
I am not aware of any long-term studies that establish the optimal frequency of maintenance treatments. Single treatments can last for hours or days, but usually not more than a week. I hope that I might profit from using ketamine to trigger an antidepressant response that the other drugs I take can maintain. I imagine that I would go for periodic ketamine treatments.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on July 15, 2013, at 20:34:18
In reply to Re: why ketamine is not available » Beckett, posted by SLS on July 15, 2013, at 20:06:52
IM in NYC Bryn received the treatments twice a week I think.
Posted by Jeroen on July 16, 2013, at 4:17:47
In reply to why ketamine is not available, posted by linkadge on July 15, 2013, at 7:50:42
my pdoc sais it can make you psychotic, the ketamine so its dangerous
Posted by linkadge on July 16, 2013, at 11:38:29
In reply to Re: why ketamine is not available, posted by poser938 on July 15, 2013, at 19:25:26
>I'm sorry, it just hurts my feelings when >someone talks bad about drug companies and their >medicines like this.
>Eli Lilly, Pfizer, Wyeth and all those other >guys care.
Care? sure....about their bottom line. I hope you are kidding! GSK hiding clinical trial suicide data on Paxil? Sure, they're just teeming with compassion.
Linkadge
Posted by poser938 on July 16, 2013, at 16:54:32
In reply to Re: why ketamine is not available » poser938, posted by linkadge on July 16, 2013, at 11:38:29
Yeah, I was only joking about all that.
But, look up the RIAT Act
You might find that interesting.
Posted by brynb on July 19, 2013, at 10:27:39
In reply to Re: why ketamine is not available, posted by poser938 on July 16, 2013, at 16:54:32
I had Ketamine treatments (both IM and IV) for several months and found that while it initially broke through a bad depressive phase, it wasn't sustainable. After my initial response, I found my positive response to the treatment was very temporary; it didn't last past a few hours to a day.
-b
Posted by SLS on July 19, 2013, at 11:09:43
In reply to Re: why ketamine is not available, posted by brynb on July 19, 2013, at 10:27:39
> I had Ketamine treatments (both IM and IV) for several months and found that while it initially broke through a bad depressive phase, it wasn't sustainable. After my initial response, I found my positive response to the treatment was very temporary; it didn't last past a few hours to a day.
I'm sorry that you didn't respond adequately to ketamine.
Have you tried Lamictal?
Thanks for reporting your experiences.
- Scott
Posted by brynb on July 19, 2013, at 12:00:26
In reply to Re: why ketamine is not available » brynb, posted by SLS on July 19, 2013, at 11:09:43
> > I had Ketamine treatments (both IM and IV) for several months and found that while it initially broke through a bad depressive phase, it wasn't sustainable. After my initial response, I found my positive response to the treatment was very temporary; it didn't last past a few hours to a day.
>
> I'm sorry that you didn't respond adequately to ketamine.
>
> Have you tried Lamictal?
>
> Thanks for reporting your experiences.
>
>
> - ScottHi Scott,
Thanks. I've heard similar responses from others who have tried Ketamine as well.
I tried Lamictal on two separate occasions, and I had to discontinue it during the first two weeks as it actually made my depression significantly worse. I seem to have a paradoxical response to it.
-b
This is the end of the thread.
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