![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 10 to 34 of 123. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on June 27, 2013, at 21:02:27
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » poser938, posted by laurah952 on June 27, 2013, at 20:50:37
Laura no too extreme to be fluctuating hormones. Could have been the initiating factor though. But then didn't you also say she had what you think was add as a child? That kind of seems to almost seal the deal for some for of bipolar? Phillipa
Posted by laurah952 on June 27, 2013, at 22:01:02
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » laurah952, posted by Phillipa on June 27, 2013, at 21:02:27
> Laura no too extreme to be fluctuating hormones. Could have been the initiating factor though. But then didn't you also say she had what you think was add as a child? That kind of seems to almost seal the deal for some for of bipolar? Phillipa
Hi Phillipa,
I know it's not hormones. I was trying to explain why I didn't believe that to be the case. I do, however, hope to some extent, that her hormones exacerbate her symptoms, and that they can be better controlled (perhaps with no meds in the future) when she gets older.
I'm holding out hope, and here's why. My eldest daughter, now 21, went through depression with some suicidal ideation at the same exact age. (She, too, had mood swings, but they were very different. She had extreme rage.) She was put on Abilify, and was a complete zombie. With the help of her pdoc, we tapered off completely. I never put her on any other psych. med as I wasn't worried that she'd commit suicide, and she was able to work through her other "issues" with therapy. She's doing very well now. To me it seems that her issues could have been caused by fluctuating hormones.
I read that between the ages of 12-14, girls are 3x as likely to become depressed. (I don't know about bi-polar though)
Laura
Posted by Phillipa on June 27, 2013, at 22:43:23
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP, posted by laurah952 on June 27, 2013, at 22:01:02
Laura so you have been through this before. How old is this other Daughter now? Does she now take any meds? Adolescence is a time of huge changes in the bodies of young adults. Phillipa
Posted by Beckett on June 28, 2013, at 0:18:52
In reply to Daughter,Bi-polar instead of MDD - HELP PLEASE!, posted by LAURAH952 on June 27, 2013, at 13:57:38
She told you to do whatever you wanted? Am I taking this out of context of a lengthy conversation, however I don't find that sound advice at all.
When is your daughter's own pdoc appointment? With a different pdoc?
Posted by laurah952 on June 28, 2013, at 0:18:53
In reply to Re: Daughter,Bi-polar instead of MDD - HELP PLEASE! » LAURAH952, posted by Beckett on June 27, 2013, at 16:51:35
> She told you to do whatever you wanted? Am I taking this out of context of a lengthy conversation, however I don't find that sound advice at all.
>
> When is your daughter's own pdoc appointment? With a different pdoc?
Yes, my daughter's current pdoc told me to do what I wanted to do (literally - she also told me to consult my daughter) concerning the following options:- add Remeron to her Zoloft and go off Seroquel
- taper off Seroquel, and give Zoloft alone
- Keep current Zoloft/Seroquel comboShe knows we really didn't like the Remeron at all, or the Seroquel long term. She offered no other alternatives, and left me w/ my head spinning. I'm no doctor, what the heck should I do? I knew what to do - get another pdoc! She starts w/ an intake next week.... but no appt. yet for pdoc.
I spoke with my own pdoc, and she said that she needed to be treated for bi-polar, which her current pdoc still hasn't given a definitive diagnosis thereof. (current pdoc has been seen for about 2 months now)
My daughter's mood swings and insomnia are the most concerning right now. She was very depressed with mood swings to begin with - most notably, the depression, and suicidal ideation (and cutting). While an inpatient, she was given Seroquel 1st - bringing her up to 300mg (to zero-out the obsession with suicide, and for sleep) Then added 50 mg Zoloft.....
I just don't know what to do in the meantime. (This pdoc told me to do what I wanted, not only once, but twice, so I will not consult her again)
Thanks - Laura
Posted by laurah952 on June 28, 2013, at 7:44:54
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » laurah952, posted by Phillipa on June 27, 2013, at 22:43:23
Hi Phillipa,
Yes, I've been through this before, but in a very different way - as she wasn't really suicidal. She is now 21, and is studying to be a neurologist. She's doing very well, and has not taken a psych med since she was 13.
Laura
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 28, 2013, at 8:00:45
In reply to 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP, posted by laurah952 on June 27, 2013, at 14:02:32
> Hi everyone,
>
> Sorry for posting this 2x. I wanted to start a new thread for this as it is so important to me.
>
> After talking with a new pdoc (my own) - we spent a good deal of time talking about Taylor. (14yo daughter)
>
> Although we saw what seemed to be MDD at first, this pdoc stated that she's is most likely bi-polar and not suffering with MDD. So, not unipolar, rather bi-polar. She based her "diagnosis" on the fact that mood swings have been severe, along with many other classic bi-polar symptoms.
>
> She thinks it should be treated only with bi-polar meds (non-psychotropic if possible) only. I guess that would mean that Zoloft would not be helping much? (That the only real help she had was the Seroquel)
>
> My daughter still has her own appt. there, but not for a while. In the meantime, do you think the Zoloft is a bad idea? (I could up Seroquel a bit, and down the Zoloft to 50mg, for a start) The pdoc she was seeing, told me to "do whatever I wanted".
>
> Thanks in advance for any help/opinions,
> LauraL,
You wrote,[...do you think..Zoloft is a bad idea...could up the Seroquel...Thanks..for any help/opinions...].
Death is not the only event that could happen when you give a child a mind-altering drug in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor. There are life-ruining conditions attributed to psychotropic drugs. And addiction is also in the cards. And the fact that the drug is taken daily for months or years is rolling the dice each time the drug is going through the child's body. And when more than one drug is taken, the events are increased exponentially. And when the age of the person having the drugs going through their body and mind is of a young age, there is even more danger to the mind that can last into adulthood and manifest itself in a life-ruining condition. There could be brain damage and learning problems and if more drugs are introduced to counteract the first drugs, there can be an exacerbation of even more brain damage that could lead the child to a life of misery and addiction and a worsening of depression, for the drug manufactrers say even in their pamphlet that they can worsen the condition and cause depression and psychosis, not to mention liver failure, kidney failure, heart failure, diabetes, tardive dyskinesia and increased suicidal/homocidal thinking.
If you read that these drugs can be an anti suicide pill, think again. This is because the drugs can INCREASE suicidal thinking, not decrease it. There is research now going on by the Army to try to make an anti-suicide pill, actually a nasal spray. This shows that an anti- suicide pill does not exist now. THESE DRUGS ARE NOT ANTI- SUICIDE PILLS. (emphasis mine) There is some speculation that Lithium used long-term could be anti-suicidal in nature, but this is inconclusive, and the price to pay could be death by kidney failure.
Then there is the aspect of the drugs causing violence. Violence to kill their own parents, innocent children and people just at a theater or shopping mall or at work or even in an elementary school. And as more drugs are taken into the brain of the child, more damage can be done. Damage that could mark the difference between the drugged child becoming a mass-murderer or not, or killing their own parents. You see, the drug companies state that the mechanism of action of their drugs is unknown. It may be unknown to them, but listen to me here,
I KNOW EXACTLY HOW THE DRUGS DO WHAT THEY DO. (emphasis mine)
I KNOW HOW ONE CAN BECOME FREE FROM ADDICTION AND DEPRESSION
I KNOW (redacted by respondent) because I am prevented from posting here what could bring healing to those suffering due to the prohibitions posted to me here by Mr Hsiung. And Mr Hsiung states that he does what will be good for this community as a whole and to try and trust him as to what he does here. But I say to you parents reading here trying to determine if drugging your child is going to be good for your child. That is different from what will be good for this community as a whole and I hope that you have an understanding of history and know what happened to all of those that said that they were doing what would be good for their community as a whole while they murdered children, which there is another prohibition to me here from Mr Hsiung that prevents me from posting about much of that here, even though I think that if there was not the prohibitions to me, lives could be saved, addictions and life-ruining conditions could be avoided and people could have the opportunity to have a new life, free from depression and addiction. What I could say if there were not the prohibitions to me here is supportive in any community , unless the community does not want people to be free from addiction and depression and go on to an early death by suicide or the drugs themselves. Oh, the horror of it all.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on June 28, 2013, at 8:20:17
In reply to Lou's response-ihnphanticyde » laurah952, posted by Lou Pilder on June 28, 2013, at 8:00:45
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > Sorry for posting this 2x. I wanted to start a new thread for this as it is so important to me.
> >
> > After talking with a new pdoc (my own) - we spent a good deal of time talking about Taylor. (14yo daughter)
> >
> > Although we saw what seemed to be MDD at first, this pdoc stated that she's is most likely bi-polar and not suffering with MDD. So, not unipolar, rather bi-polar. She based her "diagnosis" on the fact that mood swings have been severe, along with many other classic bi-polar symptoms.
> >
> > She thinks it should be treated only with bi-polar meds (non-psychotropic if possible) only. I guess that would mean that Zoloft would not be helping much? (That the only real help she had was the Seroquel)
> >
> > My daughter still has her own appt. there, but not for a while. In the meantime, do you think the Zoloft is a bad idea? (I could up Seroquel a bit, and down the Zoloft to 50mg, for a start) The pdoc she was seeing, told me to "do whatever I wanted".
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help/opinions,
> > Laura
>
> L,
> You wrote,[...do you think..Zoloft is a bad idea...could up the Seroquel...Thanks..for any help/opinions...].
> Death is not the only event that could happen when you give a child a mind-altering drug in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor. There are life-ruining conditions attributed to psychotropic drugs. And addiction is also in the cards. And the fact that the drug is taken daily for months or years is rolling the dice each time the drug is going through the child's body. And when more than one drug is taken, the events are increased exponentially. And when the age of the person having the drugs going through their body and mind is of a young age, there is even more danger to the mind that can last into adulthood and manifest itself in a life-ruining condition. There could be brain damage and learning problems and if more drugs are introduced to counteract the first drugs, there can be an exacerbation of even more brain damage that could lead the child to a life of misery and addiction and a worsening of depression, for the drug manufactrers say even in their pamphlet that they can worsen the condition and cause depression and psychosis, not to mention liver failure, kidney failure, heart failure, diabetes, tardive dyskinesia and increased suicidal/homocidal thinking.
> If you read that these drugs can be an anti suicide pill, think again. This is because the drugs can INCREASE suicidal thinking, not decrease it. There is research now going on by the Army to try to make an anti-suicide pill, actually a nasal spray. This shows that an anti- suicide pill does not exist now. THESE DRUGS ARE NOT ANTI- SUICIDE PILLS. (emphasis mine) There is some speculation that Lithium used long-term could be anti-suicidal in nature, but this is inconclusive, and the price to pay could be death by kidney failure.
> Then there is the aspect of the drugs causing violence. Violence to kill their own parents, innocent children and people just at a theater or shopping mall or at work or even in an elementary school. And as more drugs are taken into the brain of the child, more damage can be done. Damage that could mark the difference between the drugged child becoming a mass-murderer or not, or killing their own parents. You see, the drug companies state that the mechanism of action of their drugs is unknown. It may be unknown to them, but listen to me here,
> I KNOW EXACTLY HOW THE DRUGS DO WHAT THEY DO. (emphasis mine)
> I KNOW HOW ONE CAN BECOME FREE FROM ADDICTION AND DEPRESSION
> I KNOW (redacted by respondent) because I am prevented from posting here what could bring healing to those suffering due to the prohibitions posted to me here by Mr Hsiung. And Mr Hsiung states that he does what will be good for this community as a whole and to try and trust him as to what he does here. But I say to you parents reading here trying to determine if drugging your child is going to be good for your child. That is different from what will be good for this community as a whole and I hope that you have an understanding of history and know what happened to all of those that said that they were doing what would be good for their community as a whole while they murdered children, which there is another prohibition to me here from Mr Hsiung that prevents me from posting about much of that here, even though I think that if there was not the prohibitions to me, lives could be saved, addictions and life-ruining conditions could be avoided and people could have the opportunity to have a new life, free from depression and addiction. What I could say if there were not the prohibitions to me here is supportive in any community , unless the community does not want people to be free from addiction and depression and go on to an early death by suicide or the drugs themselves. Oh, the horror of it all.
> Lou
>
Friends,..a video
Lou To see this video:
A> Pull up Google
B. Type in:
[youtube, jJpTS88lcIo
Posted by SLS on June 28, 2013, at 8:53:07
In reply to Lou's response-ihnphanticyde » laurah952, posted by Lou Pilder on June 28, 2013, at 8:00:45
Apparently, you continue to be given the posting privileges that allow you to express on this forum your opinions.
I reset the subject line.
- Scott
Posted by poser938 on June 28, 2013, at 15:37:36
In reply to 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on June 28, 2013, at 8:53:07
Lou, just do it one time. Come on, post what it is that you supposively can't post. Let us know your whole opinion, you're allowed to post it.
What I've experienced with psychiatric meds shows me that much of what you write has credibility. But stop acting like Dr Bob is keeping you from posting certain information. And it in no way benefits your goal to constantly change the subject line.
Posted by polarbear206 on June 28, 2013, at 18:22:11
In reply to 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on June 28, 2013, at 8:53:07
> Apparently, you continue to be given the posting privileges that allow you to express on this forum your opinions.
>
> I reset the subject line.
>
>
> - ScottI suggest babbler's petition Dr. Bob to revoke his posting privledges.
Posted by laurah952 on June 28, 2013, at 22:42:57
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP, posted by polarbear206 on June 28, 2013, at 18:22:11
> > Apparently, you continue to be given the posting privileges that allow you to express on this forum your opinions.
> >
> > I reset the subject line.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> I suggest babbler's petition Dr. Bob to revoke his posting privledges.
Thank you Scott - I'm just... well, there aren't words - If Lou is allowed to post here, I will not be back. I came here for help, and I'm being called a murderer - my own child... just sickens me...Laura
Posted by SLS on June 28, 2013, at 23:26:36
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP, posted by laurah952 on June 28, 2013, at 22:42:57
> > > Apparently, you continue to be given the posting privileges that allow you to express on this forum your opinions.
> > >
> > > I reset the subject line.> > I suggest babbler's petition Dr. Bob to revoke his posting privledges.
> Thank you Scott - I'm just... well, there aren't words - If Lou is allowed to post here, I will not be back. I came here for help, and I'm being called a murderer - my own child... just sickens me...
Now that you understand the behavioral characteristics of the posters that you find toxic, you can avoid them. You might not need to avoid the entire website. I think there is much more that we can offer each other. I would be sad were you to disappear.From where I sit, it appears to me that you are doing an extraordinary job of caring for Taylor. I was going enumerate the reasons why I feel that way, but realized that it would take too long.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on June 29, 2013, at 0:03:00
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » laurah952, posted by SLS on June 28, 2013, at 23:26:36
Laura do please stay just ignore him. Does it to everyone it seems. Phillipa
Posted by laurah952 on June 29, 2013, at 10:27:34
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » laurah952, posted by SLS on June 28, 2013, at 23:26:36
Now that you understand the behavioral characteristics of the posters that you find toxic, you can avoid them. You might not need to avoid the entire website. I think there is much more that we can offer each other. I would be sad were you to disappear.
From where I sit, it appears to me that you are doing an extraordinary job of caring for Taylor. I was going enumerate the reasons why I feel that way, but realized that it would take too long.
:-)
- ScottHello,
Thanks again Scott. Along with others here, you have helped me a great deal, not only with medical information, but also with your support. While my family is supportive, the responsibility lies with me alone, and it's taking its toll on me, both emotionally and physically.
I hate to say it, but the information I read from the links Lou posted here have me thinking that I may be making a mistake in medicating Taylor. I came here with an open mind, so I'm looking at all information there is on this topic. Her brain is still growing and we don't know all the adverse ramifications that psychiatric medication may have concerning her future. This is not the first time I've heard it said, as my family tends to adopt a no-medication mentality. With that said, you can only imagine the guilt I feel as a parent, not only by questioning my own causality, but also suffering with every single dose of medication I give her.
When I come here and see "ihnphanticyde" right next to my name, even considering the source, I truly cannot well explain what that does to me. I never expected any of this to be easy, but it's getting more and more difficult to maintain a positive attitude.
I have a lifetime's worth of information that I had hoped would be useful to others. I just don't know if I'm strong enough right now to be a part of a group where I'm being "called a murderer", even though the rest of you have been so wonderful. I have also been a moderator on a Yahoo group for small business owners, and I can tell you right now that these inflammatory posts would have been stopped dead in their tracks.
Thank you for your help and support,
Laura
Posted by laurah952 on June 29, 2013, at 11:05:25
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP, posted by Phillipa on June 29, 2013, at 0:03:00
> Laura do please stay just ignore him. Does it to everyone it seems. Phillipa
Hi Phillipa,
You've been great, as have others. I do hope to return with regained strength, as I'm debating therapy for myself to get me through this incredibly difficult time in my life, so that I can better advocate for Taylor's mental health.
It was not my intent to add to the drama that already exists here. For that, I apologize.
We do seem to have quite a bit in common, and I'd like to offer my help to you or anyone who could benefit from my own experiences. I'd give you my email address, but I don't want Lou "showing up" in my inbox.
I researched Lou's "message", and it may hold some merit, but the delivery thereof, caused extreme anxiety. I could have gone on, ignoring his posts, but not when he hijacks the thread, and adds words such as "ihnphanticyde" to my header. What will I encounter next?
Thanks so much once again,
Laura
Posted by SLS on June 29, 2013, at 11:18:20
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » SLS, posted by laurah952 on June 29, 2013, at 10:27:34
It is not enough to state a fact and give an opinion based on that fact. One must place a fact in context with other facts and review the opinions that take those facts into consideration. Of course, this is a dynamic process that produces refinements over the course of an evolution of gathered facts, theories, and understandings.
As I mentioned in a previous post, there is certainly some concern as to what effects antidepressants can have on a maturing brain. This remains largely unknown. If I had a child with bipolar disorder, I would opt to try psychotherapy first, followed by lithium and anticonvulsant mood stabilizers. I would then consider the need for neuroleptic antipsychotics and antidepressants. It often comes down to evaluating risk/cost versus benefit. Ideally, one would want to be treated by a pediatric psychiatrist.
Just a few alternatives:
1. Lithium
2. Depakote
3. Trileptal
4. Topamax1. Seroquel
2. Abilify
3. Risperdal
4. Latuda1. Wellbutrin
2. Effexor / Pristiq
3. Zoloft
4. ParnatePersonally, I would not deny a child an antidepressant or antipsychotic if it would keep them alive and thriving. Close monitoring during the first 4 - 6 weeks should effectively screen for a negative reaction to the drugs being trialed.
If ADHD is present, perhaps using a mood stabilizer and stimulant would be considered.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on June 29, 2013, at 11:22:39
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » SLS, posted by laurah952 on June 29, 2013, at 10:27:34
By the way, what, specifically, did you find in Lou Pilder's posts that you feel have merit?
- Scott
Posted by laurah952 on June 29, 2013, at 12:54:21
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » laurah952, posted by SLS on June 29, 2013, at 11:18:20
> As I mentioned in a previous post, there is certainly some concern as to what effects antidepressants can have on a maturing brain. This remains largely unknown. If I had a child with bipolar disorder, I would opt to try psychotherapy first, followed by lithium and anticonvulsant mood stabilizers. I would then consider the need for neuroleptic antipsychotics and antidepressants. It often comes down to evaluating risk/cost versus benefit. Ideally, one would want to be treated by a pediatric psychiatrist.
From what I've seen, Taylor's therapist uses a combined strategy of both psychotherapy and CBT. Taylor sees her once a week, and responds most positively. It's difficult to sit out, and not be privy to all that is said, but I know that in order for therapy to work for her, she needs to be able to open up completely. As you may know, I have a new adolescent psychiatrist for Taylor, but we must go through the intake process first. I thought a medical work-up was done while she was an inpatient in the adolescent psychiatric hospital. Since I have not gotten any results, I will ask what tests should be done, and go from there. I will also be asking about a bi-polar diagnosis, as opposed to the original MDD diagnosis. I have pages of notes on my observations of Taylor that I formed into letters addressing both her therapist, and her previous pdoc. I will bring them with me to her intake on Monday.
I will research and take the lists of medications you have so graciously provided me to her new pdoc. Thank you for that!
>
> Personally, I would not deny a child an > > antidepressant or antipsychotic if it would keep them alive and thriving. Close monitoring during the first 4 - 6 weeks should effectively screen for a negative reaction to the drugs being trialed.Although I am questioning long term effects, I will not deny her medications that will keep her alive and well. I will be researching, and asking the pdoc about all possible negative side effects of any med she takes. I will also monitor closely her moods, especially her suicidal ideations and cutting.
> If ADHD is present, perhaps using a mood stabilizer and stimulant would be considered.She may have ADD, but I haven't seen the hyperactivity index since she was much younger. (unless constant leg/knee shaking when sitting is a factor)
Taylor has always been a sweet, caring, and loving child. She's never been in any trouble, and other parents always comment on what a polite girl she is. She's also very sensitive, and "stuffs" resentments/anger instead of letting them out. She has incredible low self esteem despite her beauty, loving demeanor, talents, and the hard work she employs in school. (final grade average for the year is an 89, despite all she's been through) She believes that she is a burden, and this scares me as her perception is way off.
I'm sorry for the long post; I'm just going to continue to fight for her as diligently as I'm able...
Thank you so much, Scott, and everyone who's helped by answering my questions and providing information and support.
- Laura
Posted by laurah952 on June 29, 2013, at 13:39:42
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » laurah952, posted by SLS on June 29, 2013, at 11:22:39
> By the way, what, specifically, did you find in Lou Pilder's posts that you feel have merit?
>
>
> - ScottIt wasn't his posts so much, and I hope I used the term "may have merit", as opposed to "does have merit" but rather the links to other sites claiming possible long term effects of administering psychiatric meds to children. We may not have a clear idea of what, if anything, they may do, but it scares me nonetheless.
I already knew that antidepressants may initially increase suicidal ideation. I can monitor that.
I also don't want her dependent on medication because I gave her medication, so to speak. If that's incorrect, I'd love to know.
What he writes holds no merit to me. The site that claims to have these studies that he shoves down our throats, also holds no merit if you look at the supposed data on medication related suicide. There's nothing there except for a statement based on... well nothing. I believe that it's merely a scare tactic.
- Laura
Posted by SLS on June 29, 2013, at 14:03:49
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » SLS, posted by laurah952 on June 29, 2013, at 13:39:42
> The site that claims to have these studies that he shoves down our throats, also holds no merit if you look at the supposed data on medication related suicide. There's nothing there except for a statement based on... well nothing. I believe that it's merely a scare tactic.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by gardenergirl on June 29, 2013, at 20:07:30
In reply to Lou's response-ihnphanticyde » laurah952, posted by Lou Pilder on June 28, 2013, at 8:00:45
Spelling it in your Lounique way is no excuse. Shame on you.
Posted by poser938 on June 29, 2013, at 20:38:44
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » laurah952, posted by SLS on June 29, 2013, at 14:03:49
Laura, based on my experience, a psychiatrists information on all possible negative effects of medication will be far from complete.
Yes, Lou is full of scare tactics. But I'm glad you believe the thought of the possibility of permanent effects from psychiatric medications holds merit. I have experienced some brain disabling effects from psychiatric meds myself. I went into the mental health system for mild to moderate depression in 2005. And now, what I have, I don't like to call it severe depression, but that's what it would appear as. What I have is a bona fire brain dysfunction caused by chemicals (medicine) that I willingly swallowed. My whole brain, emotion sensory system is messed up,i guess is the best way to put it.
I just want everyone to have fully informed consent. And I believe if one were to mainly make their decision to take these made based on the information their psychiatrist provides, and what is written in the patient information sheet, then they'd be making a decision based on incomplete information.
Just be careful. Use logic, reason. And yes, research. The best we know about these meds is that they tell the brain to function in an unnatural way. Yes, this could lead to someone feeling better. But it could also lead to the opposite. And the opposite can be scarier than what's imaginable, just like beeping freed from depression can be better than is imaginable.
Posted by Lou PIlder on June 29, 2013, at 22:38:37
In reply to Lou's response-ihnphanticyde » laurah952, posted by Lou Pilder on June 28, 2013, at 8:00:45
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > Sorry for posting this 2x. I wanted to start a new thread for this as it is so important to me.
> >
> > After talking with a new pdoc (my own) - we spent a good deal of time talking about Taylor. (14yo daughter)
> >
> > Although we saw what seemed to be MDD at first, this pdoc stated that she's is most likely bi-polar and not suffering with MDD. So, not unipolar, rather bi-polar. She based her "diagnosis" on the fact that mood swings have been severe, along with many other classic bi-polar symptoms.
> >
> > She thinks it should be treated only with bi-polar meds (non-psychotropic if possible) only. I guess that would mean that Zoloft would not be helping much? (That the only real help she had was the Seroquel)
> >
> > My daughter still has her own appt. there, but not for a while. In the meantime, do you think the Zoloft is a bad idea? (I could up Seroquel a bit, and down the Zoloft to 50mg, for a start) The pdoc she was seeing, told me to "do whatever I wanted".
> >
> > Thanks in advance for any help/opinions,
> > Laura
>
> L,
> You wrote,[...do you think..Zoloft is a bad idea...could up the Seroquel...Thanks..for any help/opinions...].
> Death is not the only event that could happen when you give a child a mind-altering drug in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor. There are life-ruining conditions attributed to psychotropic drugs. And addiction is also in the cards. And the fact that the drug is taken daily for months or years is rolling the dice each time the drug is going through the child's body. And when more than one drug is taken, the events are increased exponentially. And when the age of the person having the drugs going through their body and mind is of a young age, there is even more danger to the mind that can last into adulthood and manifest itself in a life-ruining condition. There could be brain damage and learning problems and if more drugs are introduced to counteract the first drugs, there can be an exacerbation of even more brain damage that could lead the child to a life of misery and addiction and a worsening of depression, for the drug manufactrers say even in their pamphlet that they can worsen the condition and cause depression and psychosis, not to mention liver failure, kidney failure, heart failure, diabetes, tardive dyskinesia and increased suicidal/homocidal thinking.
> If you read that these drugs can be an anti suicide pill, think again. This is because the drugs can INCREASE suicidal thinking, not decrease it. There is research now going on by the Army to try to make an anti-suicide pill, actually a nasal spray. This shows that an anti- suicide pill does not exist now. THESE DRUGS ARE NOT ANTI- SUICIDE PILLS. (emphasis mine) There is some speculation that Lithium used long-term could be anti-suicidal in nature, but this is inconclusive, and the price to pay could be death by kidney failure.
> Then there is the aspect of the drugs causing violence. Violence to kill their own parents, innocent children and people just at a theater or shopping mall or at work or even in an elementary school. And as more drugs are taken into the brain of the child, more damage can be done. Damage that could mark the difference between the drugged child becoming a mass-murderer or not, or killing their own parents. You see, the drug companies state that the mechanism of action of their drugs is unknown. It may be unknown to them, but listen to me here,
> I KNOW EXACTLY HOW THE DRUGS DO WHAT THEY DO. (emphasis mine)
> I KNOW HOW ONE CAN BECOME FREE FROM ADDICTION AND DEPRESSION
> I KNOW (redacted by respondent) because I am prevented from posting here what could bring healing to those suffering due to the prohibitions posted to me here by Mr Hsiung. And Mr Hsiung states that he does what will be good for this community as a whole and to try and trust him as to what he does here. But I say to you parents reading here trying to determine if drugging your child is going to be good for your child. That is different from what will be good for this community as a whole and I hope that you have an understanding of history and know what happened to all of those that said that they were doing what would be good for their community as a whole while they murdered children, which there is another prohibition to me here from Mr Hsiung that prevents me from posting about much of that here, even though I think that if there was not the prohibitions to me, lives could be saved, addictions and life-ruining conditions could be avoided and people could have the opportunity to have a new life, free from depression and addiction. What I could say if there were not the prohibitions to me here is supportive in any community , unless the community does not want people to be free from addiction and depression and go on to an early death by suicide or the drugs themselves. Oh, the horror of it all.
> Lou
>Friends,
My apology to anyone that thought that I used the word in question in relation to the poster that I responded to, laura, for that was not my intention.
Lou
Posted by Lou PIlder on June 29, 2013, at 23:03:52
In reply to Re: 14yo daughter - bi-polar, not MDD - new info HELP » SLS, posted by laurah952 on June 29, 2013, at 10:27:34
> Now that you understand the behavioral characteristics of the posters that you find toxic, you can avoid them. You might not need to avoid the entire website. I think there is much more that we can offer each other. I would be sad were you to disappear.
>
> From where I sit, it appears to me that you are doing an extraordinary job of caring for Taylor. I was going enumerate the reasons why I feel that way, but realized that it would take too long.
>
> :-)
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Thanks again Scott. Along with others here, you have helped me a great deal, not only with medical information, but also with your support. While my family is supportive, the responsibility lies with me alone, and it's taking its toll on me, both emotionally and physically.
>
> I hate to say it, but the information I read from the links Lou posted here have me thinking that I may be making a mistake in medicating Taylor. I came here with an open mind, so I'm looking at all information there is on this topic. Her brain is still growing and we don't know all the adverse ramifications that psychiatric medication may have concerning her future. This is not the first time I've heard it said, as my family tends to adopt a no-medication mentality. With that said, you can only imagine the guilt I feel as a parent, not only by questioning my own causality, but also suffering with every single dose of medication I give her.
>
> When I come here and see "ihnphanticyde" right next to my name, even considering the source, I truly cannot well explain what that does to me. I never expected any of this to be easy, but it's getting more and more difficult to maintain a positive attitude.
>
> I have a lifetime's worth of information that I had hoped would be useful to others. I just don't know if I'm strong enough right now to be a part of a group where I'm being "called a murderer", even though the rest of you have been so wonderful. I have also been a moderator on a Yahoo group for small business owners, and I can tell you right now that these inflammatory posts would have been stopped dead in their tracks.
>
> Thank you for your help and support,
> LauraL,
You wrote,[...the information that I read from the links Lou posted here has me thinking that I may be making a mistake in medicating (my child)...]
Let us reason together. Do chemicals that have been used in insecticides and in the commission of mass-murder have healing properties? Has there ever been anyone cured by using mind-altering drugs? Do the psychiatrists/doctors now claim that psychotropic drugs cure anything or do they now take the position that they are using the drugs to treat symptoms? Do chemicals address the underlying cause of depression? And if one takes these drugs for just a few weeks, can they become addicted to the drug so that if they stop the drug they could go into a hellish withdrawal and kill themselves thinking that they could never live in that state and that they would be better off dead? And when the doctor/psychiatrist gives the child the drug to take and tells the parent that the child has to take it for weeks before it "works", whatever that could mean, and then the psychiatrist says to he mom to stop the drug, does not the psychiatrist know that the child now could be an addict at age 14? And if grown people can not get off these drugs and say that the withdrawal is worse than heroin withdrawal, how could a child deal with such horror and while mom is asleep, kill themselves?
NOW BE ADSVISED
I KNOW THE UNDERLYING CAUSE OF DEPRESSION IN CHILDREN AND HOW TO FREE THE CHILD FROM ADDICTION AND DEPRESSION
Lou
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