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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Nutbug on June 9, 2013, at 12:33:14
After every SSRI, SNRI, every every, even Parnate and the patch, NARDIL, brought out the sun.
Problem is, I cannot find a diet list more recent than 2003. Every contra-indicated list since the 80s gets smaller and smaller so hoping a more recent list might be smaller still.
Any leads out there?
Thanks.
Posted by Tomatheus on June 9, 2013, at 16:35:18
In reply to NARDIL Life-saver after 20 years of failures., posted by Nutbug on June 9, 2013, at 12:33:14
Nutbug,
Hello, and welcome to Psycho-Babble. I think it's great that Nardil's working well for you, and I hope that it will continue to do so.
As far as the list of restricted foods is concerned, I'm not aware of any new lists that have come out in the past 10 years or so. I know that some research was published in 1996 indicating that some of the foods that were previously though to be unsafe to eat while taking an MAOI did not actually have high levels of tyramine, but I don't know if any research on the MAOI diet has been done since then. Maybe somebody else here might be aware of some more recent research and/or recently updated lists (if such research/lists exist), but I personally am not.
Sorry if I couldn't be of more help.
T.
Posted by damnthislife on June 9, 2013, at 18:55:48
In reply to NARDIL Life-saver after 20 years of failures., posted by Nutbug on June 9, 2013, at 12:33:14
Congrats, and welcome!
Would you mind sharing your story/symptoms before Nardil?
Posted by baseball55 on June 9, 2013, at 19:50:54
In reply to Re: NARDIL Life-saver after 20 years of failures., posted by damnthislife on June 9, 2013, at 18:55:48
Somebody sent an article link a few years back that was very helpful. I don't know how to search for stuff, so maybe someone else will remember.
When I started parnate, I was very suicidal and worried that all I had to do was eat some cheese and salami, drink some Chianti and draft beer and check out.
My p-doc said these were tendencies, not absolutes. The article someone sent said you really have to eat a lot of cheese or salami to provoke a hypertensive crisis. I've gotten pretty lacksadaisical over the three years I've been taking parnate. I routinely sprinkle my pasta with parmesan, eat chucks of cheddar at cocktail parties (no more than one or two). I eat pepperoni pizza (just one slice) and have been eating suhi recently with a very small amount of soy sauce. So far no problem
Maybe I am pushing the envelope and my dose of parnate is on the low side. But my experience is that you don't need to be an absoute purist on this.
Posted by nutbug on June 9, 2013, at 21:59:02
In reply to Re: NARDIL Life-saver after 20 years of failures., posted by damnthislife on June 9, 2013, at 18:55:48
> Congrats, and welcome!
>
> Would you mind sharing your story/symptoms before Nardil?Not at all.
After years of atypical depression depression manifested mostly as anxiety with unsuccessful attempts at everything from imipromine, the first days of Prozac mixed with Klonopin, then Paxil, Zoloft, Buspar, Wellbutrin, EVERY SSRI, SNRIs, ad infinitum, nauseum... Other than the tranks which let me function, nothing really worked... well, if you're here, you get the picture.
Finally, in 2008, I tanked. I had a depressive crash of the likes of never know. I woke up one morning unable to talk, drive, communicate, shower, work. The last I had to. Though my Pdoc couldn't get me out, he laid some Adderal on me that at least made it possible for me to sit upright at a desk while doing my best to avoid conversation and eye contact. It was a life saver, temporarily, since I was unaware of MAOIs and my Psych at the time, as most I learned, would not even entertain such an option.Anyway, I got laid off 3 months into the 2 year episode of near catatonia. Adderol was the only way I could get myself to brush my teeth or drop my 3 year old (did I mention that) off at day care now that my wife was working to feed us.
For a job (interviewed under double dose of adderol) we had to move 1500 miles. A great thing, as I first met a shrink who wanted Electro Shock (I thought long and hard as I wondered if I'd remember my toddler's name). But then went to the head of a very well known local small college and the head of the psych dept. Finally, he said: MAOI.
I'm rambling cuz these drugs make you crazy talkative (besides overweight, flatulent and an insomniac: all well worth it.)
First, because Nardil wasn't generic yet, Parnate. No help and anxious to boot. Next the patch. No help.
Then, the heavens opened: Nardil.
It couldn't be that easy. Every time I stood up, I passed out. My blood pressure would fall to 53 over 23. I was screwed.
I drove to Columbia Presbyterian in NYC to meet with the head of research. Slept on his office door as he is the lead researcher on cocktails but does not see patients. I WAS NOT GIVING UP ON NARDIL. He actually helped. And saved me.
So, I'm actually a truly happy guy with a 6 year old healthy kid who says he's allergic to cheese to avoid the long discussions.
I'm on:
2x15mg Nardil 2x day (generic now!)
.1 mg fludrocortison (raises blood pressure now 105/72!)
100 mg florinate. Though heavy, helps with, err, less heavy.
Intermezzo (I fall asleep fine. but wake up at 3:30 every morning)It all works. I just want a Pizza!
Is that enough? The vodka makes you write more too.
Posted by Phillipa on June 9, 2013, at 22:55:41
In reply to Re: NARDIL Life-saver after 20 years of failures. » damnthislife, posted by nutbug on June 9, 2013, at 21:59:02
Welcome the archieves of Babble if you search Maoi diet should have some recent posts on the diet. Phillipa
Posted by gilmourr on June 10, 2013, at 1:38:46
In reply to Re: NARDIL Life-saver after 20 years of failures. » damnthislife, posted by nutbug on June 9, 2013, at 21:59:02
> > Congrats, and welcome!
> >
> > Would you mind sharing your story/symptoms before Nardil?
>
> Not at all.
> After years of atypical depression depression manifested mostly as anxiety with unsuccessful attempts at everything from imipromine, the first days of Prozac mixed with Klonopin, then Paxil, Zoloft, Buspar, Wellbutrin, EVERY SSRI, SNRIs, ad infinitum, nauseum... Other than the tranks which let me function, nothing really worked... well, if you're here, you get the picture.
> Finally, in 2008, I tanked. I had a depressive crash of the likes of never know. I woke up one morning unable to talk, drive, communicate, shower, work. The last I had to. Though my Pdoc couldn't get me out, he laid some Adderal on me that at least made it possible for me to sit upright at a desk while doing my best to avoid conversation and eye contact. It was a life saver, temporarily, since I was unaware of MAOIs and my Psych at the time, as most I learned, would not even entertain such an option.
>
> Anyway, I got laid off 3 months into the 2 year episode of near catatonia. Adderol was the only way I could get myself to brush my teeth or drop my 3 year old (did I mention that) off at day care now that my wife was working to feed us.
>
> For a job (interviewed under double dose of adderol) we had to move 1500 miles. A great thing, as I first met a shrink who wanted Electro Shock (I thought long and hard as I wondered if I'd remember my toddler's name). But then went to the head of a very well known local small college and the head of the psych dept. Finally, he said: MAOI.
>
> I'm rambling cuz these drugs make you crazy talkative (besides overweight, flatulent and an insomniac: all well worth it.)
>
> First, because Nardil wasn't generic yet, Parnate. No help and anxious to boot. Next the patch. No help.
>
> Then, the heavens opened: Nardil.
>
> It couldn't be that easy. Every time I stood up, I passed out. My blood pressure would fall to 53 over 23. I was screwed.
>
> I drove to Columbia Presbyterian in NYC to meet with the head of research. Slept on his office door as he is the lead researcher on cocktails but does not see patients. I WAS NOT GIVING UP ON NARDIL. He actually helped. And saved me.
>
> So, I'm actually a truly happy guy with a 6 year old healthy kid who says he's allergic to cheese to avoid the long discussions.
>
> I'm on:
> 2x15mg Nardil 2x day (generic now!)
> .1 mg fludrocortison (raises blood pressure now 105/72!)
> 100 mg florinate. Though heavy, helps with, err, less heavy.
> Intermezzo (I fall asleep fine. but wake up at 3:30 every morning)
>
> It all works. I just want a Pizza!
>
> Is that enough? The vodka makes you write more too.
AWESOME. Found a user that uses 30 mg. I just lowered my dosage to 30 mg because 45 mg was giving me mood swings.How long did it take for yours to work?
Mine started working day 20 to 40 then for the past 2 weeks I've been having severe mood swings so I needed to change something. Hence the 30 mg change.
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on June 10, 2013, at 18:56:10
In reply to Re: NARDIL Life-saver after 20 years of failures., posted by Tomatheus on June 9, 2013, at 16:35:18
Have a lookmat Dr Ken Gillmans "psychotropical" website - he has a modern uptodate MOAI diet there, as well as a lot of other helpfull infomation
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on June 10, 2013, at 19:10:15
In reply to Re: NARDIL Life-saver after 20 years of failures., posted by jono_in_adelaide on June 10, 2013, at 18:56:10
Dr Gillman also does consults via Skype and is happy to help with any questions you may have - he is a warld renowned expert in MAOI drugs, formerly a psychiatrist in London, now retired to tropical Australia and doing this both out of a desire to help people, and to keep him self occupied during retirement
Posted by Chris O on June 15, 2013, at 4:20:12
In reply to NARDIL Life-saver after 20 years of failures., posted by Nutbug on June 9, 2013, at 12:33:14
That is so awesome that Nardil helped you after so much frustration. I am probably going to try Nardil myself, soon. I hear what you're saying about the dietary restriction list. I've been a health food nut my whole life, and there are so many things that the typical MAOI list does not even deal with, chief among them is all the various soy products on the market now (all the different products that approximate meat). There are also things like yerba matte, kombucha (and numerous other fermented drinks), teas made from various kinds of leaves that were not popular at the time earlier lists were made, all kinds of independent yogurt companies, a million cheeses beyond the eight that are on earlier lists, and what about things like acai?
Posted by Nutbug on June 17, 2013, at 4:42:16
In reply to Re: NARDIL Life-saver after 20 years of failures., posted by Chris O on June 15, 2013, at 4:20:12
I've been fortunate with the food issues. Though I certainly make an effort, I frequently screw up. Afterwards, when I learn or realize I consumed something from the "list," I'm always stunned by the lack of reaction. However, I am certainly not recommending that the "list" be ignored. Not my call at all. Just anecdotal input from another.
If you search the website of the Dr. in an earlier reply on this same thread, he has what appears to be a much more current "list" that I, at least, found helpful.
Posted by Lamdage22 on June 26, 2013, at 10:52:55
In reply to Re: NARDIL Life-saver after 20 years of failures. » Chris O, posted by Nutbug on June 17, 2013, at 4:42:16
You can ask your doc about a BP lowering med for emergency use! I dont recall the name right now.
Good in your wallet! Its called nifedipine.
I always used it cautiosly though. Licking the liquid off my hand to avoid overdose.Im not advising to eat wrong foods though! Just coffee i never had an issue with it. Be careful though
Posted by nutbug on June 26, 2013, at 11:06:22
In reply to Re: NARDIL Life-saver after 20 years of failures., posted by Lamdage22 on June 26, 2013, at 10:52:55
> You can ask your doc about a BP lowering med for emergency use! I dont recall the name right now.
>
> Good in your wallet! Its called nifedipine.
> I always used it cautiosly though. Licking the liquid off my hand to avoid overdose.
>
> Im not advising to eat wrong foods though! Just coffee i never had an issue with it. Be careful thoughAgreed. I always have a Procardia <nifedepine>. I crack in between my teeth for the liquid and throw the shell away.
I'm a coffee (4-5 cups/day) chocolate fanatic. Sadly the MAOIs make the weight gain ridiculous. 40lbs over 5 years. But while avoiding solely "artisan" and stinky cheeses and bouillon/yeast based soups/protein bars,I've been fairly successful.
Again, this is me. NOT advice for you.
Posted by Mosiba2009 on June 28, 2013, at 2:30:31
In reply to Re: NARDIL Life-saver after 20 years of failures. » Lamdage22, posted by nutbug on June 26, 2013, at 11:06:22
Wow, Nutbug, that is so encouraging! I've been on Parnate for 6 weeks today but still feel as if I'm heading towards that black hole of despair. As I was trawling through some boards for a ray of light, I came across your post...that's just so awesome for you, and for others like me to hear. I hope you keep posting positive responses like that. Wishing you much peace!
This is the end of the thread.
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