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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Fader on April 24, 2013, at 17:48:50
Hi Babblers (long time lurker here)
I feel desperate. My diagnosis is MDD and GAD. I'm currently on Lexapro, Geodon and Klonopin. And Lyrica (gabapentin).
My issue is that my MDD only fully responds to increasingly high doses of Lyrics (up to 600mg). After a while, though, the pregabalin tolerance poop out sets in and I'm left bedridden, quite literally so:
I get profuse sweating, GI upset, full on depression and a need to sleep 24/7 that can last for 10 days at a time.
My doc won't raise the dose above 600(and I agree with him) but tapering off the drug is simply useless, it doesn't help at all either. It's 2+ weeks of sheer hell, until I finally feel barely human again.
And then the vicious cycle begins again when I start the Lyrica again to treat my debilitating symptoms - which we plan to stop altogether after this round of withdrawal is over.
We've looked for alternatives, ranging from gabapentin of course, to upping my Klonopin, to trying other calcium channel blockers like flunarizine and cinnarizine, to trying other AEDs such as Zonegran and carbamazepine, to Mg Citrate and so on.
Nothing works!
Right now I want to quit Lyrica for good, but I'm dreading the withdrawal stage that has already begun (and is unresponsive to very conservative reductions). Tolerance builds so quickly and we haven't found a way of buffering it. The flexible dosing alternative (small doses as needed) don't work either.
Please, I'm desperate for some help here. I can't spend the next couple of weeks in bed.
Any withdrawal strategy suggestions that we might have overlooked?
Please help!
Regards - Fader.
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 24, 2013, at 19:32:47
In reply to Suggestions please!! Crippling Lyrica situation, posted by Fader on April 24, 2013, at 17:48:50
> Hi Babblers (long time lurker here)
>
> I feel desperate. My diagnosis is MDD and GAD. I'm currently on Lexapro, Geodon and Klonopin. And Lyrica (gabapentin).
>
> My issue is that my MDD only fully responds to increasingly high doses of Lyrics (up to 600mg). After a while, though, the pregabalin tolerance poop out sets in and I'm left bedridden, quite literally so:
>
> I get profuse sweating, GI upset, full on depression and a need to sleep 24/7 that can last for 10 days at a time.
>
> My doc won't raise the dose above 600(and I agree with him) but tapering off the drug is simply useless, it doesn't help at all either. It's 2+ weeks of sheer hell, until I finally feel barely human again.
>
> And then the vicious cycle begins again when I start the Lyrica again to treat my debilitating symptoms - which we plan to stop altogether after this round of withdrawal is over.
>
> We've looked for alternatives, ranging from gabapentin of course, to upping my Klonopin, to trying other calcium channel blockers like flunarizine and cinnarizine, to trying other AEDs such as Zonegran and carbamazepine, to Mg Citrate and so on.
>
> Nothing works!
>
> Right now I want to quit Lyrica for good, but I'm dreading the withdrawal stage that has already begun (and is unresponsive to very conservative reductions). Tolerance builds so quickly and we haven't found a way of buffering it. The flexible dosing alternative (small doses as needed) don't work either.
>
> Please, I'm desperate for some help here. I can't spend the next couple of weeks in bed.
>
> Any withdrawal strategy suggestions that we might have overlooked?
>
> Please help!
>
> Regards - Fader.Fader,
You wrote,[...I feel desperate...on Lexapro,Geodon,Klonopin,Lyrica...I'm bedridden..profuse sweating...full on depression..sleep 24/7...for 10days at a time...2+ weeks of sheer hell..barely human...the vicios cycly begins again...Nothing works!...I'm in desparate for some help...any..suggestions...?
Please help!
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 24, 2013, at 20:21:52
In reply to Lou's response- » Fader, posted by Lou Pilder on April 24, 2013, at 19:32:47
> > Hi Babblers (long time lurker here)
> >
> > I feel desperate. My diagnosis is MDD and GAD. I'm currently on Lexapro, Geodon and Klonopin. And Lyrica (gabapentin).
> >
> > My issue is that my MDD only fully responds to increasingly high doses of Lyrics (up to 600mg). After a while, though, the pregabalin tolerance poop out sets in and I'm left bedridden, quite literally so:
> >
> > I get profuse sweating, GI upset, full on depression and a need to sleep 24/7 that can last for 10 days at a time.
> >
> > My doc won't raise the dose above 600(and I agree with him) but tapering off the drug is simply useless, it doesn't help at all either. It's 2+ weeks of sheer hell, until I finally feel barely human again.
> >
> > And then the vicious cycle begins again when I start the Lyrica again to treat my debilitating symptoms - which we plan to stop altogether after this round of withdrawal is over.
> >
> > We've looked for alternatives, ranging from gabapentin of course, to upping my Klonopin, to trying other calcium channel blockers like flunarizine and cinnarizine, to trying other AEDs such as Zonegran and carbamazepine, to Mg Citrate and so on.
> >
> > Nothing works!
> >
> > Right now I want to quit Lyrica for good, but I'm dreading the withdrawal stage that has already begun (and is unresponsive to very conservative reductions). Tolerance builds so quickly and we haven't found a way of buffering it. The flexible dosing alternative (small doses as needed) don't work either.
> >
> > Please, I'm desperate for some help here. I can't spend the next couple of weeks in bed.
> >
> > Any withdrawal strategy suggestions that we might have overlooked?
> >
> > Please help!
> >
> > Regards - Fader.
>
> Fader,
> You wrote,[...I feel desperate...on Lexapro,Geodon,Klonopin,Lyrica...I'm bedridden..profuse sweating...full on depression..sleep 24/7...for 10days at a time...2+ weeks of sheer hell..barely human...the vicios cycly begins again...Nothing works!...I'm in desparate for some help...any..suggestions...?
> Please help!Fader,
What I know about your condition is that there is the potential for you to be killed by the combination of the drugs that you are taking, for one. And while you are alive, those drugs can impair your thinking dramatically. You could be easily controlled for the drugs hamper your ability to reason. And if you are among hate-mongers, you could be easily influenced to transfer the hate that they could instill in you and scheme to commit mass-murder.
I am prevented from posting here a lot of research that shows how mind-altering drugs could instill a mind-altered state in the taker of the drugs to be compelled to kill themselves and/or others due to the prohibitions posted to me here by Mr Hsiung. I am also prohibited to post what has been revealed to me that could lead you out of the horror that you are in and into a new realm of peace. It would come from a Jewish perspective as revealed to me and I am prohibited by Mr Hsiung from posting what has been revealed to me that concerns that.
Now the drugs that you are taking can cause death individually and there is an algorithm for the taking of the combination of the drugs that I know of that shows me that your death from the drugs could happen, statistically that is.
Here are some links to some statistics for such.
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lexapro/death
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/geodon/death
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/klonopin/death
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lyrica/death
Posted by Phillipa on April 24, 2013, at 21:51:46
In reply to Suggestions please!! Crippling Lyrica situation, posted by Fader on April 24, 2013, at 17:48:50
Fader welcome to babble. I'm pretty confident that tomorrow someone with lyrica experience can offer you some suggestions. I so sorry you are going through this Phillipa
Posted by SLS on April 24, 2013, at 22:04:49
In reply to Suggestions please!! Crippling Lyrica situation, posted by Fader on April 24, 2013, at 17:48:50
Lou Pilder and I disagree on the utility of using the eHealthme website that he always cites as a source of information. We also disagree on the dangers of polypharmacy. Your doctor must be pretty sharp. The combination of drugs you are taking, although currently inadequate in your case, demonstrates a well-informed, sophisticated approach. I agree with him on his reluctance to continue to escalate the dosage of Lyrica beyond 300 mg/day.
- Scott
Posted by Jeroen on April 25, 2013, at 3:36:57
In reply to Re: Suggestions please!! Crippling Lyrica situation » Fader, posted by SLS on April 24, 2013, at 22:04:49
Lou stop your death threats, this person needs help
not a death advice
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 25, 2013, at 4:55:54
In reply to Lou stop your death threats, this person needs hel, posted by Jeroen on April 25, 2013, at 3:36:57
> Lou stop your death threats, this person needs help
>
> not a death adviceJeroen and friends,
Jeroen wrote,[...Lou stop your death threats, this person needs help not death advice...].
Now I am not making a threat of death to anyone here by warning of the statistical probability of the drugs killing the poster. I know of the chemical structure of the drugs and I am trying to save lives by posting educational material here to give readers information so that they could make a more-informed decision as to drug their child or themselves in collaboration with a psychiatrist/doctor. I am prevented by the nature of the prohibitions posted to me here by Mr Hsiung to post what I think could save lives and prevent life-ruining conditions and addictions. I did not give the poster the horror that is depicted by the poster that they are in. And I am prevented by the prohibitions to post what I think could lead them out of the death realm and into a realm of healing and peace. And if I was not repressed in my speech here, I think that many that have died here from the drugs could still be alive today.
This person needs help is in no doubt. But if the drugs could kill the poster, could not it be supportive to warn of that possibility? And if not, and the person is led falsely to believe that the drugs could not kill them, and they die, then is death supportive here?
My friends, it has been revealed to me of a Great Deception that the world is under now. I am prevented from posting here what the scriptures that the Jews use that told thousands of years ago what is happening now. And if you were to know, your eyes could be opened to what that Great Deception is, and I think that lives could be saved. But as of now, the uninformed become easily manipulated, and when hate is allowed to be posted here , over and over, the combination of hate and repression of facts could lead one here taking mind-altering drugs to kill themselves and/or others and even commit mass-murder. You can tell the poster to take more drugs here, but don't forget whose life could be taken by those drugs, so members, save the last post for me.
Lou
Posted by Fader on April 25, 2013, at 5:08:43
In reply to Suggestions please!! Crippling Lyrica situation, posted by Fader on April 24, 2013, at 17:48:50
Mr. Pilder, thank you for the information you provided. And thank you for your concerns. I can reassure you that they don't apply to my present situation. I'll decline your offer to know a solution as revealed to you from a religious perspective. Thanks for your time.
Posted by Fader on April 25, 2013, at 5:10:44
In reply to Suggestions please!! Crippling Lyrica situation, posted by Fader on April 24, 2013, at 17:48:50
My initial query remains. I would gratefully appreciate any insights and suggestions. Thank you.
Posted by SLS on April 25, 2013, at 7:06:41
In reply to Re: Suggestions please!! Crippling Lyrica situation, posted by Fader on April 25, 2013, at 5:10:44
> My initial query remains. I would gratefully appreciate any insights and suggestions. Thank you.
I thought that I had offered you some thoughtful feedback. Perhaps you can be more specific in the type of information you are seeking.
Perhaps 600 mg/day of Lyrica would work wonderfully for you, but I do understand your doctor's sentiments not to go up that high in dosage. Lyrica may act in ways similar to Neurontin, a sister drug. Dosage escalation with subsequent poop-out occur quite often. In addition to this, your doctor might have very valid concerns regarding the addiction potential of Lyrica.
- Scott
Posted by Fader on April 25, 2013, at 7:37:45
In reply to Re: Suggestions please!! Crippling Lyrica situation » Fader, posted by SLS on April 25, 2013, at 7:06:41
Thank you, Scott, I missed your reply. I very much appreciate it.
I might have worded my initial post incorrectly. I'm on 600mgs already. The problem is that I'm dealing with full blown tolerance, the dose can't be raised (not that I'd want that) and withdrawing, even in tiny 25mg steps, is not working.
I was looking for suggestions to make the withdrawal easier. I want off the Lyrica for good, my doc has tried several strategies and none have worked so far. Apparently the rest of his patients do a rapid dosage reduction to come off the med and are fine.
I'm also wondering if anybody, based on Lyrica's mode of action, can suggest a similar med, as pregabalin is the only med that helped with my MDD.
Thank you so much .
> > My initial query remains. I would gratefully appreciate any insights and suggestions. Thank you.
>
> I thought that I had offered you some thoughtful feedback. Perhaps you can be more specific in the type of information you are seeking.
>
>
> Perhaps 600 mg/day of Lyrica would work wonderfully for you, but I do understand your doctor's sentiments not to go up that high in dosage. Lyrica may act in ways similar to Neurontin, a sister drug. Dosage escalation with subsequent poop-out occur quite often. In addition to this, your doctor might have very valid concerns regarding the addiction potential of Lyrica.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by SLS on April 25, 2013, at 8:26:15
In reply to Re: Suggestions please!! Crippling Lyrica situation » SLS, posted by Fader on April 25, 2013, at 7:37:45
> Thank you, Scott, I missed your reply. I very much appreciate it.
>
> I might have worded my initial post incorrectly. I'm on 600mgs already. The problem is that I'm dealing with full blown tolerance, the dose can't be raised (not that I'd want that) and withdrawing, even in tiny 25mg steps, is not working.
>
> I was looking for suggestions to make the withdrawal easier. I want off the Lyrica for good, my doc has tried several strategies and none have worked so far. Apparently the rest of his patients do a rapid dosage reduction to come off the med and are fine.
>
> I'm also wondering if anybody, based on Lyrica's mode of action, can suggest a similar med, as pregabalin is the only med that helped with my MDD.
>
> Thank you so much.You do us a favor by asking questions that no one has an immediate answer to. It encourages research.
What symptoms of withdrawal are you experiencing, and at what dosage do they appear? I think this might be important information that would help to arrive at offering a few suggestions.
Hang in there.
Without having more information, my knee-jerk reaction is to use Trileptal, a benzodiazepine, or possibly Depakote as a temporary measure for a few weeks. We'll see.
I wonder if magnesium would help. This would be particularly interesting if you react to calcium by becoming more depressed.
By the way, Neurontin and Lyrica both make my depression worse, despite experiencing a transient improvement during the first week.
- Scott
Posted by Fader on April 25, 2013, at 10:27:02
In reply to Re: Suggestions please!! Crippling Lyrica situation » Fader, posted by SLS on April 25, 2013, at 8:26:15
> > Thank you, Scott, I missed your reply. I very much appreciate it.
> >
> > I might have worded my initial post incorrectly. I'm on 600mgs already. The problem is that I'm dealing with full blown tolerance, the dose can't be raised (not that I'd want that) and withdrawing, even in tiny 25mg steps, is not working.
> >
> > I was looking for suggestions to make the withdrawal easier. I want off the Lyrica for good, my doc has tried several strategies and none have worked so far. Apparently the rest of his patients do a rapid dosage reduction to come off the med and are fine.
> >
> > I'm also wondering if anybody, based on Lyrica's mode of action, can suggest a similar med, as pregabalin is the only med that helped with my MDD.
> >
> > Thank you so much.
>
> You do us a favor by asking questions that no one has an immediate answer to. It encourages research.
>
> What symptoms of withdrawal are you experiencing, and at what dosage do they appear? I think this might be important information that would help to arrive at offering a few suggestions.
>
> Hang in there.
>
> Without having more information, my knee-jerk reaction is to use Trileptal, a benzodiazepine, or possibly Depakote as a temporary measure for a few weeks. We'll see.
>
> I wonder if magnesium would help. This would be particularly interesting if you react to calcium by becoming more depressed.
>
> By the way, Neurontin and Lyrica both make my depression worse, despite experiencing a transient improvement during the first week.
>
>
> - ScottScott,
For whatever reason, Lyrica drags me out of suicidal depression within a day or two. Neurontin doesn't do much.
I should clearly state that I've been on Lyrica 3 times during the past 2 years. All 3 courses of treatment lasted about about 3 months each. Tolerance develops fast, hence dose escalation. I had this crippling withdrawal all 3 times, though the first time I attributed it to catching a bad bug.
The only reason I got on it again is because it works wonders for my depression, but at a huge cost. I was going through an extremely rough patch 3 months ago, so my doc cajoled me into taking it again. My mood improved dramatically within a few days from reinstating it, and I was able to address my depression.
I'm experiencing tolerance symptoms right now, at 600mg. They are: extreme apathy, sleepiness, sluggishness, despondency. I've been on this dose for about a month.
As soon as I lower the dose, I get full blown withdrawal within 24 hours: moderate anxiety, constant alternating hot and cold flushes and sweats, GI problems (constant loose stools, sorry to be graphic) and the very worst one: strangely enough, an uncontrollable need to sleep 24/7. The last time I withdrew from Lyrica, I literally stayed in bed for almost 10 days, sleeping. Not depressed, just unable to leave my bed.
I'm not taking this stuff ever again though.
My dr. wants me to discontinue the med quickly, and he's planning to treat the withdrawal symptoms as they arise: Provigil for the extreme tiredness, psyllium husk seed for GI problems seems to work best (or loperamide for emergencies) and Klonopin to be taken as needed (my usual dose is 1mg and now I'm taking maybe 2mg). I doubt this will work. The usual AEDs don't help either, though he hasn't suggested Dekapote though.
The withdrawal is particularly heinous because it's an all-or-nothing deal. The withdrawal symptoms don't abate in the slightest if I take, say, 300mg, only reinstating the full 600mg dose (or more I'm guessing) will make them stop.
I tried magnesium and it do much, as far as I could tell. Calcium supplements don't make me depressed, just sleepy. Lyrica is a calcium channel blocker, is that why you ask, Scott?
I do appreciate your concern, thank you.
Posted by Fader on April 25, 2013, at 15:02:16
In reply to Re: Suggestions please!! Crippling Lyrica situation » Fader, posted by Phillipa on April 24, 2013, at 21:51:46
> Fader welcome to babble. I'm pretty confident that tomorrow someone with lyrica experience can offer you some suggestions. I so sorry you are going through this Phillipa
Hello Phillippa, I'm only just beginning to understand how this board works. Thank you so much for your warm welcome, I really appreciate it.
Posted by Fader on April 25, 2013, at 15:10:36
In reply to Lou stop your death threats, this person needs hel, posted by Jeroen on April 25, 2013, at 3:36:57
> Lou stop your death threats, this person needs help
>
> not a death adviceHi Jeroen,
Thank you for your support. I've decided to simply ignore the poster you mentioned because, like you said, I need help so I refuse to waste my energy.
Regards.
Posted by Jeroen on April 25, 2013, at 15:56:58
In reply to Re: Suggestions please! Crippling Lyrica situation » Jeroen, posted by Fader on April 25, 2013, at 15:10:36
found mine atleast im on the right path ihope
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on April 25, 2013, at 17:42:58
In reply to Suggestions please!! Crippling Lyrica situation, posted by Fader on April 24, 2013, at 17:48:50
Try adding Welbutrin 300mg to the Lexapro
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on April 25, 2013, at 18:05:08
In reply to Re: Suggestions please!! Crippling Lyrica situation, posted by jono_in_adelaide on April 25, 2013, at 17:42:58
or, if Welbutrin doesnt seem like a goer, add Remeron, 15mg at night for 4 nights, then 30mg at night..... then increase to 45mg at night after 2 weeks depending on response
Posted by Fader on April 26, 2013, at 11:30:00
In reply to Re: Suggestions please!! Crippling Lyrica situation, posted by jono_in_adelaide on April 25, 2013, at 18:05:08
> or, if Welbutrin doesnt seem like a goer, add Remeron, 15mg at night for 4 nights, then 30mg at night..... then increase to 45mg at night after 2 weeks depending on response
Hi Jono, interesting, what's you're reasoning for suggesting Wellbutrin or Remeron? To treat underlying depression?
My doc actually wants to add Wellbutrin to my Lex once I've finished the Lyrica withdrawal.
Thanks!
This is the end of the thread.
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