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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by poser938 on April 14, 2013, at 18:22:15
If even if they can see a serious problem in the brain, they still can't do anything but tell you to play psychiatric med roulette?
Posted by Phillipa on April 14, 2013, at 18:25:56
In reply to what good are brain scans if..., posted by poser938 on April 14, 2013, at 18:22:15
I guess it would depend on the problem? MRI's can show MS for instance. And this would be treated differently?
Posted by Jeroen on April 14, 2013, at 18:34:47
In reply to Re: what good are brain scans if... » poser938, posted by Phillipa on April 14, 2013, at 18:25:56
hey im having symptoms of some sort of infection or damage
im trying eardrops right now because i feel it in my left ear too so my doc prescribed it
Posted by poser938 on April 14, 2013, at 18:43:07
In reply to what good are brain scans if..., posted by poser938 on April 14, 2013, at 18:22:15
I just want a new brain :(
Or go back in time and to never have started psych meds.My brain is starting to feel about as useful as a brick for thinking with.
Starting to lay in bed all day and stay on the internet too much.its like my imagintion is almost completely gone and I'musing the internet to keep my mind going at least a little bit.
Its no fun
Posted by Jeroen on April 14, 2013, at 19:02:30
In reply to Re: what good are brain scans if..., posted by poser938 on April 14, 2013, at 18:43:07
same here... atleast we're in the same boat... friendship hug :)
Posted by poser938 on April 14, 2013, at 19:17:29
In reply to to poser, posted by Jeroen on April 14, 2013, at 19:02:30
Thanks
Posted by Tomatheus on April 14, 2013, at 19:33:22
In reply to what good are brain scans if..., posted by poser938 on April 14, 2013, at 18:22:15
Poser938,
There is a psychiatrist named Dr. Daniel Amen who uses SPECT scans in clinical practice. Dr. Amen contends that there are seven main types of anxiety and depression, each one being associated with a different type of brain dysfunction as shown by the SPECT scans. Each type of anxiety and depression, in addition to having an associated pattern of brain dysfunction, tends to respond best to certain treatments. I don't know if there are any studies to back up Dr. Amen's contentions that the various types of anxiety and depression that he's identified respond well to certain treatments. My guess would be that Dr. Amen's contentions are based primarily on what he's observed in clinical practice and on what's known about how dysfunctions in various parts of the brain respond to changes in certain neurotransmitters and other chemicals, but that's just a guess.
I don't know what Dr. Amen's success rates are for anxiety, depression, and the other psychiatric conditions that he treats. It would be my guess that Dr. Amen would contend that his approach leads to more treatment successes than the approach of mainstream psychiatry, but I can be sure that Dr. Amen doesn't boast 100 percent success rates. So, even though using SPECT scans may help to predict which patients will respond best to which treatments, I think that the tendencies of patients with specific subtypes of anxiety and depression (as measured by specific SPECT readings) to respond to specific treatments are really nothing more than tendencies at best. In other words, although I think that Dr. Amen's approach to psychiatry (which uses SPECT scans) gives psychiatrists more information to base their treatment decisions on than conventional psychiatry does, using SPECT scans by no means guarantees that patients will respond well to the first (or second, or third) treatments that they try.
Tomatheus
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 14, 2013, at 19:48:10
In reply to Re: what good are brain scans if..., posted by poser938 on April 14, 2013, at 18:43:07
> I just want a new brain :(
> Or go back in time and to never have started psych meds.
>
> My brain is starting to feel about as useful as a brick for thinking with.
> Starting to lay in bed all day and stay on the internet too much.its like my imagintion is almost completely gone and I'musing the internet to keep my mind going at least a little bit.
> Its no funposer938,
You wrote,[...a new brain..go back in time and to have never started psych drugs...]
Posted by poser938 on April 14, 2013, at 19:48:59
In reply to Re: what good are brain scans if..., posted by Tomatheus on April 14, 2013, at 19:33:22
I've heard of the Amen clinic. My last pdoc mentionef it to me. I did some reading on it and read experiences with it and... I guess I may never know unless I try it for myself. But one review I read on it was someone that had the SPEC scan done to try getting help for extremely longterm antidepressant withdrawal, and at the clinic thery said they had no information on this or how to help it.
This is similar to the problem I'm having, with Mirapex seemigly to have permanently reduced my aibility to feel pleasure. I've tried takimg Adderall which was amazing in the past but nw I feel nothing from it. I've also tried a few antipsychotics hoping to reverse the effects of mirapex's dopamine stimulation and what it did to me. I can't feel anything from these meds either. There are many meds I can't fel the effecys from and I beieve its basically because part of my dopamine system is malfunctioning. Its like Mirapex told my brain it didn't have to make its own dopamine anymore.
I've talked to someone in the same situation as me from Mirapex. He got to 200mgs of Lamictal recently and says it is helping. So now I've starte lamictal and keeping my fingers crossed. I don't consider ECT a legitimate option. But if lamictal doesn't help I'll feel so lost.
Posted by SLS on April 14, 2013, at 20:18:45
In reply to Re: what good are brain scans if..., posted by poser938 on April 14, 2013, at 19:48:59
> This is similar to the problem I'm having, with Mirapex seemigly to have permanently reduced my aibility to feel pleasure.
I forget...
Have you tried Abilify?
- Scott
Posted by poser938 on April 14, 2013, at 20:29:17
In reply to Re: what good are brain scans if... » poser938, posted by SLS on April 14, 2013, at 20:18:45
Well, how Mirapex effected me, it had no effect on my emotions for the month that it benefited me at all was by increasing my sensitivity to "stimulation" but then after about a month I took my dose and along with my pleasure feelings being drastically decreased my sensitivity went away too. Then I tried ritalin and it helped for like an hour and then it wore off and I was made much worse. More recentl I tried adderall and I feel nothing from it.
Anyway, direct dopamine agonism was never for me. And I don't think abilify is worth a try withits partial agonism, id expect that to possibly increase my senstivity for a bit and then be even worse.
I'm only on 25 mgs of lamictal, I'll keep my fingers crossed.
The guy I talked to also responded to mirtazapine and I responded well to cyproheptadine in the past too. Maybe its serotonin 2c sntagonisdm disinhibited dopamine. But I got to an extremely high dose asnd had to stop taking it. It still doesn't help inlower doses. Anyway, it seems he and I might respond well to the same meds.
Posted by Tomatheus on April 14, 2013, at 20:40:02
In reply to Re: what good are brain scans if..., posted by poser938 on April 14, 2013, at 19:48:59
Thanks for writing back. I think it would be difficult to say for sure how much help visiting the Amen Clinics would be in your situation. A SPECT scan might tell you what part of your brain might have been affected by taking Mirapex, but I'm not sure how helpful it would be as far as making treatment decisions is concerned since you already know that what you're experiencing seems like it's likely to be rooted in some sort of dysfunction associated with the dopamine system. I tend to think that going to the Amen Clinics would be more helpful for medication-naive individuals who want their psychiatrists to get as much information about their condition as possible before prescribing anything than it would be for someone with a problem that was likely induced by a specific medication -- especially given what you mentioned about the reviewer who was told by the Amen Clinics that they didn't have any information on how to help someone with long-term antidepressant withdrawal.
At any rate, I wish you luck with the Lamictal that you're trying, and I'm sorry that none of the medications that you've tried have helped the problem that you're experiencing in the long run. Have you ever tried l-tyrosine or any form of phenylalanine? Those might be worth looking into if Lamictal doesn't work out for you, since they're thought to work on dopamine.
Tomatheus
Posted by Hugh on April 15, 2013, at 11:47:49
In reply to what good are brain scans if..., posted by poser938 on April 14, 2013, at 18:22:15
I've read that Dr. Amen's SPECT scans cost about $3,000. But that's a bargain if it helps. I've read some of Amen's books. He uses the scans to determine which kind of treatment to use. He'll use stimulating drugs or supplements for some types of depression, and sedating drugs or supplements for other types. He also uses TMS.
Some neurofeedback clinicians use a qEEG, which costs about a third or a half of what a SPECT scan would cost. I went to a neurofeedback clinician for what's called a mini-Q, which used EEG to look at eight or ten sites on my brain. It found that my left prefrontal cortex is underactive, which is frequently the case in depression. The mini-Q cost just $75.
Posted by poser938 on April 15, 2013, at 17:46:28
In reply to Re: what good are brain scans if..., posted by Hugh on April 15, 2013, at 11:47:49
> I've read that Dr. Amen's SPECT scans cost about $3,000. But that's a bargain if it helps. I've read some of Amen's books. He uses the scans to determine which kind of treatment to use. He'll use stimulating drugs or supplements for some types of depression, and sedating drugs or supplements for other types. He also uses TMS.
>
> Some neurofeedback clinicians use a qEEG, which costs about a third or a half of what a SPECT scan would cost. I went to a neurofeedback clinician for what's called a mini-Q, which used EEG to look at eight or ten sites on my brain. It found that my left prefrontal cortex is underactive, which is frequently the case in depression. The mini-Q cost just $75.And what kind of treatment did they recommend to increase or normalize activity in your prefrontal cortex?
Posted by poser938 on April 15, 2013, at 17:55:10
In reply to Re: what good are brain scans if..., posted by Hugh on April 15, 2013, at 11:47:49
There is definitely a crucial step in the whole dopamine synthesis and release process that my brain just isn't doing.
And the dopamine increasing meds on the market aren't helping with this process.
Posted by Hugh on April 15, 2013, at 21:46:21
In reply to Re: what good are brain scans if..., posted by poser938 on April 15, 2013, at 17:46:28
> And what kind of treatment did they recommend to increase or normalize activity in your prefrontal cortex?
Neurofeedback with two or more channels, which means that two or more sites on the brain can be trained simultaneously. I've done neurofeedback with a nearby clinician who used the old-fashioned, 1990s era one channel neurofeedback. Clinicians who use the newer, more sophisticated neurofeedback equipment and protocols are at least 300 miles away from me, so I'd have to stay in a motel or apartment for a month or so to get the 20-30 sessions that are normally required. If you're interested in trying to find a neurofeedback clinician near you who uses the mini-Q, contact Peter Van Deusen at this site: http://www.brain-trainer.com
Posted by poser938 on April 16, 2013, at 19:06:18
In reply to Re: what good are brain scans if..., posted by Hugh on April 15, 2013, at 21:46:21
Cool. I think I'll consider neuro feedback. Do you mnd telling me what specific diagnosis helped you with?
Posted by Hugh on April 16, 2013, at 23:16:22
In reply to Re: what good are brain scans if..., posted by poser938 on April 16, 2013, at 19:06:18
I did neurofeedback over ten years ago. The EEG showed a lot of fast activity in my brain, which was trained down. The most dramatic change I experienced because of neurofeedback was an elimination of the strong discomfort I used to feel in public places. Since I did neurofeedback, many advances have been made in the field, with better equipment and protocols. I hope to do more neurofeedback soon, but would have to travel a considerable distance to work with a cutting-edge clinician. An interesting book about neurofeedback is A Symphony in the Brain by Jim Robbins.
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 17, 2013, at 16:25:34
In reply to what good are brain scans if..., posted by poser938 on April 14, 2013, at 18:22:15
> If even if they can see a serious problem in the brain, they still can't do anything but tell you to play psychiatric med roulette?
poser and friends,
If you are considering paying for this "neurofeedback" that you are reading aout here, I am requesting that befor you putyour money in the hands of the people that will do this for you that yopu:
A. Find out how much of your money it will set you back
B. Find out BEFORE you do the treatment? if your insurance co will pay for it
C. Find out if the ,whatever it is called, is FDA approved.
D. Be advised that anecdotal reports are hearsay and do not conclude that the neurofeedback is scientifically proven.
E Are there scientific studies that show any proven treatment from this neurofeedback, or whatever you want to call it.
F Do a search:
[neurofeedback, list of confidence tricks, fraud, scam, quackery, snake oil] and read some of the reports that come up
G. Now if this, whatever you call it, is a valid medicl process for depression, addiction, anxiety, then:
H.. Would all the psychiatrist that give mind-altering drugs that could cause death, addiction and other life-ruining conditions be doing what is (redacted by respondent)
>K. If you hold to the "chemical imbalance theory", and the neurofeedback works, then is the theory really false?
L. If you prescribe to the "genetic cause" of depression and other mental issues, and if neurofeedback is a correct remedy, then is the genetic theory false? If not, how does the neurofeedback correct the genetic problem?
M. Do you think that the placebo effect could play a role in the anecdotal reports of effectual results from neurofeedback?
P. Are you aware that there are people that do this procedure and say it is a farce?
Q. Are you aware of the "shill" issue in anecdotal reports?
R. If those insurance companies that will not pay for this procedure, what does that tell you?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on April 17, 2013, at 21:23:01
In reply to Re: what good are brain scans if..., posted by poser938 on April 15, 2013, at 17:55:10
> There is definitely a crucial step in the whole dopamine synthesis and release process that my brain just isn't doing.
> And the dopamine increasing meds on the market aren't helping with this process.poser,
Now I know that you are serious in finding a way out. And I think that your search could bring you out. But don't forget whose taking your money and whose body those drugs are gonna be. So poser, save the last post for me.
You can drug, you can scan , and you can follow all the posters posting to you here. You can see, that there has not been a way for you to escape the awful fear. But don't forget that I have posted to you which you all agree. So poser, save the last post for me.
Lou
Posted by Jeroen on April 20, 2013, at 7:16:50
In reply to Lou's response- » poser938, posted by Lou Pilder on April 17, 2013, at 21:23:01
to poser i have tried panotile eardrops and after 2 days i felt better, pretty weird huh 1 drop left 1 drop right ear 2x daily
its some sort of anti biotic, maybe u should try it and report back
This is the end of the thread.
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