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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 28. Go back in thread:
Posted by vanvog on April 7, 2013, at 5:37:32
In reply to Re: PARNATE making my IBS-D worse? Parnate and IBS? » vanvog, posted by SLS on April 7, 2013, at 2:48:41
Of course, when I think about it, it could be just diarrhea as a side-effect of the dose increase, it doesn't seem to be a very common Parnate s/e for most people but it's possible.
>How does your IBS react to tricyclic antidepressants? Which ones help most?
I've never been on a TCA before, my pDoc doesn't seem to believe in treating IBS with psych. meds, I'm stuck with Loperamide which I developed a mild tolerance for.
Posted by SLS on April 7, 2013, at 9:17:21
In reply to Re: PARNATE making my IBS-D worse? Parnate and IBS?, posted by vanvog on April 7, 2013, at 5:37:32
> > How does your IBS react to tricyclic antidepressants? Which ones help most?
> I've never been on a TCA before, my pDoc doesn't seem to believe in treating IBS with psych.Perhaps there is recent evidence that rejects the results of many years of previous work in the treatment of IBS with TCA. I think one of the mistakes made when designing these TCA studies is that the maximum dosages used are too low. Despite this, these studies most often demonstrate the superiority of TCA versus placebo.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19340896
I would say that it makes sense to give desipramine 50 mg/day a chance to work before increasing the dosage.
Good luck.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on April 7, 2013, at 9:51:06
In reply to PARNATE making my IBS-D worse? Parnate and IBS?, posted by vanvog on April 6, 2013, at 19:21:48
I guess it depends on the type of IBS is it predominantly constipation or diarrhea? Here's just one link. Phillipa
http://ibs.about.com/od/medicationforibs/a/Antidepressants-For-IBS.htm
Posted by 10derheart on April 7, 2013, at 11:16:38
In reply to Re: PARNATE making my IBS-D worse? Parnate and IBS? » vanvog, posted by Phillipa on April 7, 2013, at 9:51:06
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on April 7, 2013, at 21:35:06
In reply to PARNATE making my IBS-D worse? Parnate and IBS?, posted by vanvog on April 6, 2013, at 19:21:48
Can you take some loperamide for a few days and see if this resolves as your body gets used to the higher dose?
I cant think of any means by which Parnate would cause IBS to be worse.
Posted by Phillipa on April 8, 2013, at 20:51:45
In reply to Subj of post is: IBS-***D*** (nm) » Phillipa, posted by 10derheart on April 7, 2013, at 11:16:38
I know isn't this about what ad is best for IBS? Phillipa
Posted by brynb on April 8, 2013, at 21:32:22
In reply to Re: Subj of post is: IBS-***D*** » 10derheart, posted by Phillipa on April 8, 2013, at 20:51:45
> I know isn't this about what ad is best for IBS? Phillipa
Phillipa-
I think it was about whether Parnate specifically was making vanvog's IBS worse.
That said, I was going to answer earlier to this thread as "10der"heart's response wasn't very civil. Or tender.
-b
Posted by Phillipa on April 8, 2013, at 21:43:11
In reply to Re: Subj of post is: IBS-***D***, posted by brynb on April 8, 2013, at 21:32:22
B you are correct my bad Phillipa
Posted by vanvog on April 8, 2013, at 23:21:15
In reply to Re: Subj of post is: IBS-***D*** » brynb, posted by Phillipa on April 8, 2013, at 21:43:11
I checked with the PI sheets of two different Parnate manufacturers and in both cases diarrhea is listed under the very rare side effect but who knows? I have no other explanation.
I'm on Loperamid up to 8 tablets now it does seem to help but I still have stomach pain and cramping and unusually frequent bowel movement.
Of course it could be something else not related to Parnate, I will see a Doc if it doesn't get better in 2-3 weeks.
Posted by SLS on April 9, 2013, at 0:16:46
In reply to Re: PARNATE making my IBS-D worse? Parnate and IBS? » vanvog, posted by SLS on April 7, 2013, at 2:48:41
Do anticholinergic M1 drugs have a place in IBS-D? These drugs might actually help with depression, too. It's an old idea that is being revisited today with the study of scopolamine.
- Scott
Posted by 10derheart on April 9, 2013, at 1:23:00
In reply to Re: Subj of post is: IBS-***D*** » 10derheart, posted by Phillipa on April 8, 2013, at 20:51:45
> I know isn't this about what ad is best for IBS?
You asked:
>>is it predominantly constipation or diarrhea?
IBS-D means diarrhea. I was just trying to help since you must not have noticed that. I thought I was saving the OP from having to post an answer to something already in the post's subject.
But, it seems a simple factual post is twisted somehow.....
No good deed goes unpunished at Babble today. What a fool I am.
Posted by 10derheart on April 9, 2013, at 1:34:43
In reply to Re: Subj of post is: IBS-***D***, posted by brynb on April 8, 2013, at 21:32:22
> That said, I was going to answer earlier to this thread as "10der"heart's response wasn't very civil. Or tender.
I'm sorry you have jumped to this conclusion. Is it civil to call someone you don't even know uncivil and not tender, out of the blue?
Someone who has known me here for years encouraged me to come back here and post again after....well, anyway...I should have followed my gut and stayed the h*** away.
I have no earthly clue what was wrong with my post. I didn't have time to engage with vanvog as I am swamped with college stuff 95% of the time. But, since I have a close family member suffering terribly with IBS-D for over a decade, the subject always catches my eye. All I had time for was to quickly point out that Phillipa's question was already answered. Is is the asterisks?? Since Babble is so old-school, there was no way to highlight, bold, etc. the - D - so, it's the way I know to emphasize something. Posters have been using that method forever.
If you wonder about someone's tone or intention, can't you give the benefit of the doubt, or just ask them about it?
I don't get it.
Posted by 10derheart on April 9, 2013, at 1:41:59
In reply to PARNATE making my IBS-D worse? Parnate and IBS?, posted by vanvog on April 6, 2013, at 19:21:48
vanvog,
I don't have anything helpful about Parnate, but I wanted to apologize for messing up your thread somehow. I had no idea my post to Phillipa would be taken in a negative way....toward you, I think. No such intention, believe me. :-(
My daughter suffers horribly with IBS-D and was recently hospitalized because of complication with it (dehydration and other nasty stuff I won't go into here) and now GI doc thinks maybe something additional is going on. It keeps me awake nights worrying about her inability to eat or go far from a bathroom. It's like a flare up that never goes away.....
I hope yours is much better controlled and I'm so sorry you have to have this stupid syndrome. It's truly one of the most frustrating medical conditions I've ever observed.
take care and I hope the Parnate issue gets resolved....
Posted by SLS on April 9, 2013, at 5:42:18
In reply to huh? » brynb, posted by 10derheart on April 9, 2013, at 1:34:43
Hi 10derHeart.
Please don't project the words of an individual poster to the sentiments of an entire posting community.
I hope you process your interactions here such that you deem it healthy for you to continue participing on Psycho-Babble.
- Scott
Posted by brynb on April 9, 2013, at 7:29:05
In reply to huh? » brynb, posted by 10derheart on April 9, 2013, at 1:34:43
> I'm sorry you have jumped to this conclusion. Is it civil to call someone you don't even know uncivil and not tender, out of the blue?
>
It wasn't out of the blue. It was a conclusion I drew from the subject line.> Someone who has known me here for years encouraged me to come back here and post again after....well, anyway...I should have followed my gut and stayed the h*** away.
>
> I have no earthly clue what was wrong with my post. I didn't have time to engage with vanvog as I am swamped with college stuff 95% of the time. But, since I have a close family member suffering terribly with IBS-D for over a decade, the subject always catches my eye. All I had time for was to quickly point out that Phillipa's question was already answered. Is is the asterisks?? Since Babble is so old-school, there was no way to highlight, bold, etc. the - D - so, it's the way I know to emphasize something. Posters have been using that method forever.
>
Perhaps it was the asterisks which led me to believe you were calling Phillipa something uncivil (they usually substitute the offending word) for simply misunderstanding the original thread. I just thought it came off as rather harsh.> If you wonder about someone's tone or intention, can't you give the benefit of the doubt, or just ask them about it?
>
> I don't get it.
>
Sorry if I jumped to any conclusions. My bad, if that's the case. I just called something as I saw it. If I was wrong, that's all it was, a misinterpretation. Nothing personal.-b
Posted by 10derheart on April 9, 2013, at 11:07:27
In reply to Re: huh? » 10derheart, posted by SLS on April 9, 2013, at 5:42:18
Sorry. My feelings were hurt by the nonpersonal post directed at me, and I said too much. Just like I am probably still doing.
Sorry, Scott.
Posted by SLS on April 9, 2013, at 15:53:13
In reply to Re: huh? » SLS, posted by 10derheart on April 9, 2013, at 11:07:27
> Sorry. My feelings were hurt by the nonpersonal post directed at me, and I said too much. Just like I am probably still doing.
>
> Sorry, Scott.
>
This is one time that I wish I could transmit the inflections of my voice and facial expressions through these silly words I come up with. You have absolutely nothing to be sorry for, and I wasn't trying to reprimand you in any way.For lack of more effective diction:
(((((10derHeart)))))
:-)
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on April 9, 2013, at 21:03:04
In reply to PARNATE making my IBS-D worse? Parnate and IBS?, posted by vanvog on April 6, 2013, at 19:21:48
Last sentence IBS and parnate. Yes saw the IBS D. But I also have had IBS since a teen and know it switches quite often. That's all. Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 10, 2013, at 14:34:58
In reply to Re: huh? » SLS, posted by 10derheart on April 9, 2013, at 11:07:27
Hi, everyone,
brynb may not have experienced 10der's (nm) post to Phillipa as tender (in the sense of "marked by the softer emotions", "showing care"). And in fact she wasn't engaging with vanvog (the OP = original poster) then. She was pointing out something Phillipa had missed. But maybe she was tender in the sense of "sensitive to injury", "demanding careful handling".
It wasn't supportive for brynb to imply that 10der wasn't civil, but neither was it supportive for 10der to imply that brynb had twisted her post.
It's interesting how the *** were ambiguous.
Finally, I wonder about parallels with IBS-D. Feelings of frustration can be evoked by IBS -- and also by posters. D is a symptom of IBS, and posters can have difficulty controlling their words and feelings.
Bob
Posted by 10derheart on April 10, 2013, at 20:23:09
In reply to Re: huh, posted by Dr. Bob on April 10, 2013, at 14:34:58
> It wasn't supportive for brynb to imply that 10der wasn't civil,No implication. This is a statement:
>> "10der"heart's response wasn't very civil. Or tender.
>>but neither was it supportive for 10der to imply that brynb had twisted her post.Oops. I didn't mean to imply. I meant to state. I should have tried harder. Must be the word "seems."
I am expected to support a poster who calls my post uncivil and harsh without ever having given me any benefit of the doubt or asked what was meant? Yes, I suppose so, but that would be at the **former** Babble, not the present one.
> Finally, I wonder about parallels with IBS-D. Feelings of frustration can be evoked by IBS -- and also by posters. D is a symptom of IBS, and posters can have difficulty controlling their words and feelings.
Ugh. That's a gross image, Dr. Bob. Did you need to go there? So, let's see if I have this straight: I am unsupportive, sensitive, demand careful handling, lacking in self-control and likely have something akin to diarrhea of the mouth in my posts?
Got it. Thanks. Out of consideration for vanvog, I absolutely will not respond on this any further here.
Posted by brynb on April 11, 2013, at 17:46:27
In reply to Re: huh » Dr. Bob, posted by 10derheart on April 10, 2013, at 20:23:09
I totally misinterpreted your post. Sorry!
-b
Posted by 10derheart on April 11, 2013, at 20:27:42
In reply to Re: huh » 10derheart, posted by brynb on April 11, 2013, at 17:46:27
Thank you for that. I appreciate it.
If I posted anything uncivil to you, I apologize as well.
Maybe I will stay away from those asterisks.....they are trouble. :-)
Posted by SLS on April 12, 2013, at 6:13:09
In reply to Re: huh » brynb, posted by 10derheart on April 11, 2013, at 20:27:42
> Maybe I will stay away from those asterisks.....they are trouble. :-)
They make for a good cyber-Rorschach test.
- Scott
Posted by Dinah on April 14, 2013, at 9:51:56
In reply to PARNATE making my IBS-D worse? Parnate and IBS?, posted by vanvog on April 6, 2013, at 19:21:48
Can you work with your doctor to discuss lowering the dose temporarily?
FWIW, my IBS-D flareups are sometimes totally inexplicable. I get them when I'd never expect them, and don't when I would. It might be coincidence. And of course it might not.
Posted by Dinah on April 14, 2013, at 10:02:52
In reply to Re: huh » Dr. Bob, posted by 10derheart on April 10, 2013, at 20:23:09
I'm sorry about your daughter, 10der. I hope they straighten it out soon. Does she, by any chance, drink sodas? For some reason, it sometimes helps me to cut back on my diet coke intake. I'm not sure if it's the caffeine or the acid. And of course vegetables....
Don't take Dr. Bob's words too much to heart. I doubt he meant anything particularly offensive by it. You know how he likes to echo themes. Personally, I think it's the whole psychiatric training thing. Not meant to be more than therapeutically provocative and perhaps, in his own way, empathetic by using the same images already in use in the thread. But Dr. Bob can speak for himself. Quite possibly even in a way that can work to repair unintentional rifts.
I understand your frustrations with regards to the new Babble. I guess in some ways posters learn to work things out themselves, but in other ways it can lead to vigilance on our parts that might have previously been left to Dr. Bob. I guess it takes a new sort of communicative style that might or might not be right for you. I, of course, hope you can find a way that does make it tolerable for you.
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