Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 1036019

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Corticosteroids and Relief from Depression

Posted by cellular on January 21, 2013, at 19:14:23

Hello Babblers,

This is my first post on this board, and I'd like to greet everyone here.
Hopefully somebody with the same experience as I've been having could reply.

My medication for over ten years:

sertraline 150 mg
trimipramine 75 mg
flupent(h)ixol 1.5 mg

My symptoms:

enormous lack of energy
extremely sensitive to stress

The medication I'm on has been effective enough to escape the darkest depths of depression such as suicidal thoughts, however, my daily life is marked by above symptoms.

Recently, my condition worsened insofar as I feel paralyzed to do the most basic tasks such as brushing my teeth, washing my face and hair, preparing meals, washing dishes, doing the laundry. Even when my bladder tells me to visit the bathroom, I can't push myself to go until it really gets uncomfortable.

After five days of unusual "paralysis", I resorted to taking the glucocorticoid prednisolone and within an hour the "paralysis" was gone and I was able to take care of basic tasks again.
For four days I've been taking varying doses of prednisolone (10 to 20 mg per day) except for yesterday, because I didn't feel I needed it.
Alas, after waking up today, I felt "paralyzed" again and after taking 10 mg prednisolone I was able to function again.

I was prescribed prednisolone (tablets) for hefty pollen allergy a few years ago but didn't use it for that matter. Instead I self-administered the med a day or two every couple of months whenever I felt "paralyzed", after I discovered its powerful antidepressant effect.

I did some research on the net and the following is what I found:

Prednisone augmentation in treatment-resistant depression with fatigue and hypocortisolaemia: a case series.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10999245

The glucocorticoid receptor: pivot of depression and of antidepressant treatment?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20399565

The Corticosteroid Receptor Hypothesis of Depression

http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v23/n5/full/1395567a.html

My question is:

Has anybody on this board had a similar experience?

What type of doctor would I need to see if I want to find out whether I'm suffering from some kind of disorder involving corticosteroid secretion, receptors and so on?

I can't tell my pdoc about this matter, since he's been angry at me for having "tested" other meds in the past on my own.

Thanks for reading,
cellular


 

Re: Corticosteroids and Relief from Depression

Posted by linkadge on January 21, 2013, at 19:34:26

In reply to Corticosteroids and Relief from Depression, posted by cellular on January 21, 2013, at 19:14:23

Prednisone can have a stimulant like effect - releasing dopamine and norepinephrine.

It appears your depression symptoms are atypical. The combination of an SSRI and antipsychotic may not be the best for you at this time. SSRIs alone can induce fatigue, apathy. Antipsychotics might increase this.

Some ideas / options:

- switch to (or add) something more stimulating (wellbutrin, desipramine, clomipramine)
- check vitamin D and b12 status
- add some chromium (good for atypical depression)
- caffiene augmentation
- ditch the antipsychotic if the depression is not psychotic (add a 'Z' drug if sleep is the issue)
-switch the zoloft to imipramine or fluvoxamine (these drugs have partial glucocorticoid agonist activity)
- bright morning light
- partial sleep deprivation

Linkadge


 

Re: Corticosteroids and Relief from Depression » linkadge

Posted by cellular on January 21, 2013, at 21:01:29

In reply to Re: Corticosteroids and Relief from Depression, posted by linkadge on January 21, 2013, at 19:34:26

Thank you for replying, Linkadge.

> Prednisone can have a stimulant like effect - releasing dopamine and norepinephrine.

That I didn't know, and I'll try to find out more about its dopamine- and norepinephrine-releasing effects.

> It appears your depression symptoms are atypical. The combination of an SSRI and antipsychotic may not be the best for you at this time. SSRIs alone can induce fatigue, apathy. Antipsychotics might increase this.

Part of the intended or side effects of the SSRI sertraline though is a certain kind of apathy which has been freeing my mind from suicidal thoughts for over ten years now. Sertraline saved my life, literally, so I can't do without it.

> Some ideas / options:
> - switch to (or add) something more stimulating (wellbutrin, desipramine, clomipramine)

Adding something stimulating would most probably result in me being more irritable and susceptible to the debilitating effects of over-sensitivity when buying groceries or having to go somewhere else with people around me. My anxiety level already rises when I'm fit enough to leave my apartment and decide to go outside.
What might be suitable is a stimulating med that leads to short-term (daily) relief when I'm at home, so that I can skip that med whenever I need to leave home.

> - check vitamin D and b12 status

Definitely no problem, since I've been taking both D and a vitamin B-complex for many years.

> - add some chromium (good for atypical depression)

Chromium being a trace mineral, I'm reluctant to think about taking a daily supplement of it. My diet is relatively well-balanced and I doubt that extra chromium is necessary.

> - caffiene augmentation

I use caffeine every day, but it doesn't have the sort of antidepressant effect that prednisolone provides.

> - ditch the antipsychotic if the depression is not psychotic (add a 'Z' drug if sleep is the issue)

I do have a psychotic-related diagnosis, but typically I believe that what I hear (insults and negative comments when people are around me) is actual and relates to me, and I don't accept it as a form of delusion which my pdoc seems to imply that it is.

> -switch the zoloft to imipramine or fluvoxamine (these drugs have partial glucocorticoid agonist activity)

That's certainly interesting, and I'll look into that option.

> - bright morning light

That certainly helps, but most of the time I don't even have the drive to go outside at all, let alone in the morning when I usually sleep best.

> - partial sleep deprivation

Tried it, but doesn't work for me.

> Linkadge

Thank you once more for your suggestions and I'll do some research on two of your tips.

cellular

 

Re: Corticosteroids and Relief from Depression

Posted by polarbear206 on January 21, 2013, at 22:43:00

In reply to Re: Corticosteroids and Relief from Depression » linkadge, posted by cellular on January 21, 2013, at 21:01:29

Psycheducation.org Please see site. Wealth of knowledge on treatment options for harder to treat mood disorders.

 

Re: Corticosteroids and Relief from Depression » cellular

Posted by Phillipa on January 21, 2013, at 23:23:33

In reply to Corticosteroids and Relief from Depression, posted by cellular on January 21, 2013, at 19:14:23

Welcome and an endocrinologist can administer blood test to check you cortisol levels. The cortisone meds are dangerous if taken when not needed and deplete your adrenal glands. Please let a doc check you out. Phillipa

 

Freeze or flight anxiety responses

Posted by alchemy on January 21, 2013, at 23:30:08

In reply to Corticosteroids and Relief from Depression, posted by cellular on January 21, 2013, at 19:14:23

Interesting. I was just having a small "ah-ha" moment of my own about anxiety and the freeze or flight response. I'm going to create a separate post, but your response to your feelings of paralysis is interesting.

 

Re: Corticosteroids and Relief from Depression » polarbear206

Posted by cellular on January 22, 2013, at 17:15:44

In reply to Re: Corticosteroids and Relief from Depression, posted by polarbear206 on January 21, 2013, at 22:43:00

> Psycheducation.org Please see site. Wealth of knowledge on treatment options for harder to treat mood disorders.

Thank you for posting the link to that site, Polarbear206.
Whereas the site's focus is bipolar disorder -- which I don't have -- there's nevertheless lots of interesting information.

cellular

 

Re: Corticosteroids and Relief from Depression » Phillipa

Posted by cellular on January 22, 2013, at 17:31:18

In reply to Re: Corticosteroids and Relief from Depression » cellular, posted by Phillipa on January 21, 2013, at 23:23:33

> Welcome and an endocrinologist can administer blood test to check you cortisol levels. The cortisone meds are dangerous if taken when not needed and deplete your adrenal glands. Please let a doc check you out. Phillipa

I appreciate your response, Phillipa. You're right about me needing to go see an endocrinologist.
In my small city we only have had one such specialist until now and a new one will be starting to open office in mid-February. So I gotta decide which one to pick and make an appointment. The tough part will be whether I'll be able to successfully ask him not to disclose my visit to both my GP or pdoc.

cellular

 

Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses » alchemy

Posted by cellular on January 22, 2013, at 17:47:27

In reply to Freeze or flight anxiety responses, posted by alchemy on January 21, 2013, at 23:30:08

> Interesting. I was just having a small "ah-ha" moment of my own about anxiety and the freeze or flight response. I'm going to create a separate post, but your response to your feelings of paralysis is interesting.

Hello Alchemy,

The feeling of paralysis I've been having recently is not due to anxiety, since I didn't plan on leaving my apartment on those days.
The reason is either a depression that became worse or perhaps a worsening of negative symptoms of my psychotic-related illness.

BTW, today I didn't need to take any prednisolone because the beneficial effects of yesterday's dose of 10 mg spilled over to today.

cellular

 

Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses

Posted by baseball55 on January 22, 2013, at 19:27:16

In reply to Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses » alchemy, posted by cellular on January 22, 2013, at 17:47:27

It's probably not a good idea to be self-medicating with as powerful and potentially dangerous drug as prednisone. It's also probably not a good idea to try to hide this from your GP and p-doc. If your p-doc gets frustrated by your self-medicating already, imagine how frustrated he would be to find out you're hiding this from him. Why go to a p-doc at all if you can't be honest with him/her?

 

Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses » baseball55

Posted by cellular on January 22, 2013, at 20:13:17

In reply to Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses, posted by baseball55 on January 22, 2013, at 19:27:16

> It's probably not a good idea to be self-medicating with as powerful and potentially dangerous drug as prednisone. It's also probably not a good idea to try to hide this from your GP and p-doc. If your p-doc gets frustrated by your self-medicating already, imagine how frustrated he would be to find out you're hiding this from him. Why go to a p-doc at all if you can't be honest with him/her?

I know very well about the side effects of prednisolone thus I'm not popping it like candy. As I've already noted, I take it a day or two every few months whenever I'm feeling "paralyzed" and you can read about the specifics of my recent self-administration regarding time-frame and dosage in one of my posts above.
BTW, it is my GP who has been prescribing the med.
As for my pdoc, I can only hope he understands my predicament if he were to find out.

I've got the impression that you've never suffered from mental illness, much less experienced what it's like to lack the energy to carry out the most basic tasks in everyday life.

For example, if you were unable to even brush your teeth or wash your face to the point of contracting cavities, periodontitis and eczema:

Would you let your body continue to decay or would you rather take a relatively small dose of a corticosteroid in order to cut through the vicious cycle of "paralysis" and rotting away???

cellular

 

Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses

Posted by baseball55 on January 23, 2013, at 0:43:51

In reply to Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses » baseball55, posted by cellular on January 22, 2013, at 20:13:17

I've spent probably months in psych hospitals after months of being unable to get out of bed to shower or wash my hair or even to eat. So I understand perfectly well what that is like. But I would never lie to my p-doc. He has been the one person I could count on, and I have had periods where I wouldn't even see him because I felt completely out of options. Maybe you assume I don't know what it's like because you and I have different experience with p-docs. To me, he was this rock. Even when I couldn't get out of bed to see him, he kept in touch by phone and kept in touch with my husband by phone. So, yes, I've suffered from mental illness and been thoroughly disabled by it. But I would never self-medicate without telling my p-doc. Maybe we just have different relatioships with our p-docs.

> I've got the impression that you've never suffered from mental illness, much less experienced what it's like to lack the energy to carry out the most basic tasks in everyday life.
>
> For example, if you were unable to even brush your teeth or wash your face to the point of contracting cavities, periodontitis and eczema:
>
> Would you let your body continue to decay or would you rather take a relatively small dose of a corticosteroid in order to cut through the vicious cycle of "paralysis" and rotting away???
>
> cellular
>
>

 

Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses » baseball55

Posted by cellular on January 23, 2013, at 6:10:51

In reply to Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses, posted by baseball55 on January 23, 2013, at 0:43:51

Dear baseball55, I'd never lie to my pdoc either.
I'm concerned though about your relationship with your pdoc that is based on benzodiazepine addiction. You mentioned on another thread that you've been taking the highly addictive alprazolam merely for sleeping well -- every night for a year. Going to a pill mill like you're obviously doing will not diminish both the health and legal danger you are in, baseball55. Did you now that you're actually abusing a controlled substance which is listed as a schedule IV drug?
I can only hope that law enforcement won't discover your activities and put you in jail as a result.

May God open your eyes.

cellular

 

Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses

Posted by baseball55 on January 23, 2013, at 18:46:58

In reply to Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses » baseball55, posted by cellular on January 23, 2013, at 6:10:51

> Dear baseball55, I'd never lie to my pdoc either.
> I'm concerned though about your relationship with your pdoc that is based on benzodiazepine addiction. You mentioned on another thread that you've been taking the highly addictive alprazolam merely for sleeping well -- every night for a year. Going to a pill mill like you're obviously doing will not diminish both the health and legal danger you are in, baseball55. Did you now that you're actually abusing a controlled substance which is listed as a schedule IV drug?
> I can only hope that law enforcement won't discover your activities and put you in jail as a result.
>
> May God open your eyes.
>
> cellular
>
>
Huh? I take xanax before bed, as prescribed and only as prescribed. I take it because parnate, an MAOI, causes severe insomnia. When I go off the parnate, I will go off the xanax with my p-docs supervision.

 

Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses » baseball55

Posted by cellular on January 24, 2013, at 4:04:55

In reply to Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses, posted by baseball55 on January 23, 2013, at 18:46:58

> > Dear baseball55, I'd never lie to my pdoc either.
> > I'm concerned though about your relationship with your pdoc that is based on benzodiazepine addiction. You mentioned on another thread that you've been taking the highly addictive alprazolam merely for sleeping well -- every night for a year. Going to a pill mill like you're obviously doing will not diminish both the health and legal danger you are in, baseball55. Did you now that you're actually abusing a controlled substance which is listed as a schedule IV drug?
> > I can only hope that law enforcement won't discover your activities and put you in jail as a result.
> >
> > May God open your eyes.
> >
> > cellular
> >
> >
> Huh? I take xanax before bed, as prescribed and only as prescribed. I take it because parnate, an MAOI, causes severe insomnia. When I go off the parnate, I will go off the xanax with my p-docs supervision.

I'm afraid you're in deep trouble, baseball55.
Please read my post on your Xanax thread.


 

Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses » cellular

Posted by Phillipa on January 24, 2013, at 20:01:11

In reply to Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses » baseball55, posted by cellular on January 24, 2013, at 4:04:55

Leave baseball alone again please as he's following doctors orders. Something could be I can't say as not a doc only a babbler that you could be sicker than you feel you are? I think you might benefit from seeing your doc? I'm worried about you. Phillipa

 

Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses » Phillipa

Posted by cellular on January 24, 2013, at 21:42:08

In reply to Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses » cellular, posted by Phillipa on January 24, 2013, at 20:01:11

> Leave baseball alone again please as he's following doctors orders. Something could be I can't say as not a doc only a babbler that you could be sicker than you feel you are? I think you might benefit from seeing your doc? I'm worried about you. Phillipa

Well howdy, "Phillipa". Are you "baseball55's" sock puppet? Or did he ask you to pester me because he's he not man enough to continue trolling me after I've been giving him a slight taste of his own medicine?

FYI, I am the one who opened this thread and if you or baseball55 are too sick or drugged too read and comprehend what I posted then you two are definitely a whole magnitude "sicker" than I am.

While all babblers who replied to my post have done so in a civil manner, providing me with useful information concerning my question, there comes along a troll (baseball55) who falsely accuses me of using steroids (which are anabolics in common jargon) and relentlessy continues to commit libel by alleging that I lie to my pdoc.

I started posting on this board hoping to recieve and give mutual support but when someone with antisocial behavior such as "baseball55" starts to defame me, I will certainly play along with his sick mind game by giving him some payback.

I encourage all babblers who have the time or are interested in the modus operandi of sociopaths -- which includes libel and stalking -- to read this thread, and another one further down, from start to end.
They think they can get away with bullying those whom they perceive to be weaker than themselves, but when they get a little taste of their own medicine and realize they underestimated their perceived victim, they try to use sockpuppets or incite others to gang up on him/her.

So "baseball55"/"Phillipa" have lost by trying to play sick mind games. They've been called out and ended up being caught with their pants off.

It would be better for those two and society if they seeked psychiatric treatment for their aggressive and antisocial behavior and/or refrain from posting when under the influence of drugs they can't deal with.

cellular

 

Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses » cellular

Posted by Phillipa on January 25, 2013, at 17:59:26

In reply to Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses » Phillipa, posted by cellular on January 24, 2013, at 21:42:08

Oh course you are free to think or feel what you like. My response "whatever". Phillipa

 

Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses » Phillipa

Posted by cellular on January 25, 2013, at 19:10:35

In reply to Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses » cellular, posted by Phillipa on January 25, 2013, at 17:59:26

> Oh course you are free to think or feel what you like. My response "whatever". Phillipa

You and your buddy baseball55 certainly fit the clinical definition of
"Antisocial personality disorder" (ASPD)
as described by the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, fourth edition (DSM-IV).

Here are some of the common features and descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths, as people with ASPD -- such as you two -- are commonly termed:

~Glibness and Superficial Charm

~Manipulative and Conning

~They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

~Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

~Pathological Lying

~Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

~Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt

~A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

~Shallow Emotions

~When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

~Incapacity for Love

~Need for Stimulation

~Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

~Callousness/Lack of Empathy

~Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

~Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim.
Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

~Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

~Irresponsibility/Unreliability

~Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

~Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

~Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle

~Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

~Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility

~Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

Other Related Qualities:

~Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them

~Authoritarian

~Secretive

~Paranoid

~Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired

~Conventional appearance

~Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)

~Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life

~Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)

~Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim

~Incapable of real human attachment to another

~Unable to feel remorse or guilt

~Extreme narcissism and grandiose

~May state readily that their goal is to rule the world

(The above traits are based on the psychopathy checklists of H. Cleckley and R. Hare.)

NOTE:
In the 1830's this disorder was called "moral insanity."
By 1900 it was changed to "psychopathic personality."
More recently it has been termed "antisocial personality disorder" in the DSM-III and DSM-IV.

cellular

 

Stop feeding the troll!! » Phillipa

Posted by Phil on January 25, 2013, at 19:43:06

In reply to Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses » cellular, posted by Phillipa on January 25, 2013, at 17:59:26

[IMG]http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm216/pearljo/donotfeedthetroll.jpg[/IMG]

 

Re: Stop feeding the troll!! » Phil

Posted by Phillipa on January 25, 2013, at 20:47:10

In reply to Stop feeding the troll!! » Phillipa, posted by Phil on January 25, 2013, at 19:43:06

Thanks done. Phillipa

 

Re: Stop feeding the troll!! » Phil

Posted by cellular on January 25, 2013, at 21:18:10

In reply to Stop feeding the troll!! » Phillipa, posted by Phil on January 25, 2013, at 19:43:06

> [IMG]http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm216/pearljo/donotfeedthetroll.jpg[/IMG]

ROFL now I know what Phillipa/baseball55 looks like, thanks dude.

 

Re: please be civil » cellular

Posted by Dr. Bob on January 27, 2013, at 0:57:35

In reply to Re: Freeze or flight anxiety responses » baseball55, posted by cellular on January 23, 2013, at 6:10:51

> Did you now that you're actually abusing a controlled substance which is listed as a schedule IV drug?
> I can only hope that law enforcement won't discover your activities and put you in jail as a result.

Please don't be sarcastic, jump to conclusions about others, post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, harass or pressure others, or exaggerate or overgeneralize.

More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express yourself, including a link to a nice post by Dinah on I-statements, are in the FAQ:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforce

Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.

Thanks,

Bob

 

Re: Stop feeding the troll!! » cellular

Posted by sleepygirl2 on January 27, 2013, at 10:54:59

In reply to Re: Stop feeding the troll!! » Phil, posted by cellular on January 25, 2013, at 21:18:10

Try not to let it get to you, cellular.
Take care :-)

 

Re: Stop feeding the troll!! » sleepygirl2

Posted by cellular on January 27, 2013, at 19:43:45

In reply to Re: Stop feeding the troll!! » cellular, posted by sleepygirl2 on January 27, 2013, at 10:54:59

> Try not to let it get to you, cellular.
> Take care :-)

Thank you Sleepygirl2 :-)
In case you've got time, I've sent you a babbelmail with background information.

All the best to you and the other people who have decency and goodness in their hearts.

cellular


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