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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by brynb on January 4, 2013, at 15:00:37
Can anyone explain what the real difference is between Boderline Personality Disorder and bipolar depression? It seems as if they're quite similar and it's hard to distinguish one from the other. It also seems like those w/ BPD have depression or bipolar depression anyway, so there's a big overlap.
Any thoughts on this?
Posted by rjlockhart37 on January 4, 2013, at 17:23:21
In reply to BPD vs. Bipolar, posted by brynb on January 4, 2013, at 15:00:37
borderline is personality disorder, usally having unstable feelings inside that are related to relationships...it flucuates much, its .. the best i can say is everything is chaotic with borderline's....they have vary hard time keeping stable relationships, feel distressed inside, unstable selfimage and change their image...
but the first thing i read is that they reject people before people reject them...their disturbed by rejection alot...and fear and projected fear of abandonment....did some research real quick on google....
bipolar is manic like states, its not as distint, but still people who are manic depressive can be borderline too...that really is a bad bondage....manic states, with unstable emotions.
that's all i can think of right now....hope it gave u an idea....
r
Posted by Phillipa on January 4, 2013, at 18:13:18
In reply to Re: BPD vs. Bipolar, posted by rjlockhart37 on January 4, 2013, at 17:23:21
RJ that's pretty good. Yes one is a personality disorder and one psychiatric disorder. Don't know how they changed the DSM but an Axis I Diagnosis used to the psychiatric dx and Axis II personality disorder if one is present. Lots of times splitting is a very prominent sign of borderline disorder and self inflicted injuries. Phillipa
Posted by SLS on January 4, 2013, at 20:18:38
In reply to BPD vs. Bipolar, posted by brynb on January 4, 2013, at 15:00:37
> Can anyone explain what the real difference is between Boderline Personality Disorder and bipolar depression? It seems as if they're quite similar and it's hard to distinguish one from the other. It also seems like those w/ BPD have depression or bipolar depression anyway, so there's a big overlap.
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/borderline-personality-disorder/index.shtml
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on January 4, 2013, at 21:44:40
In reply to Re: BPD vs. Bipolar » brynb, posted by SLS on January 4, 2013, at 20:18:38
Good link and if don't want to watch video click on top right side good explanation Phillipa
Posted by brynb on January 5, 2013, at 5:22:59
In reply to BPD vs. Bipolar, posted by brynb on January 4, 2013, at 15:00:37
Thanks for the input. I apologize, but reading through the responses and links still leave me confused as to the difference between BPD and Bipolar. Can't rapid cycling w/ bipolar mirror BPD? Is there one major distinguishing factor between the two?
Thanks,
b
Posted by SLS on January 5, 2013, at 8:37:35
In reply to Re: BPD vs. Bipolar » brynb, posted by SLS on January 4, 2013, at 20:18:38
> Thanks for the input. I apologize, but reading through the responses and links still leave me confused as to the difference between BPD and Bipolar. Can't rapid cycling w/ bipolar mirror BPD? Is there one major distinguishing factor between the two?
>
> Thanks,
> bSome doctors are now placing borderline personality disorder (BPD) in the bipolar spectrum. I don't know if this is justified, but I'll let better minds than mine deal with the nosology.
BD and BPD often occur comorbidly, in which case the overlap in symptoms is quite large. However, each has a few symptoms that I believe are exclusive to that disorder.
Ultradian (several times a day) rapid cycling is rare in bipolar disorder (BD and occurs regardless of external events. The mood of BPD can vary acutely many times in one day in a pattern that is not cyclical. These mood changes are usually a reaction to external events, paticularly those that trigger feelings of abandonment. Mood can also change in response to shifting perceptions of self-image.
In people with BPD, the mood swings are more distinct than with BD. While people with bipolar disorder switch between periods of mania and major depression in which symptoms are global and occur together, the mood swings typical in BPD are more specific and can be limited. Fear of abandonment can rise and fall while feelings of sadness and anger remain low. Feelings of sadness can rise and fall while levels of fear remain low. Anger and fear can occur together or separately. Etcetera.
With bipolar mania, people often display pressured speech and racing thoughts as they jump from one idea to another. There is an increase in energy and goal oriented behavior. People take on many projects. However, distraction often prevents projects from being accomplished. There is a reduced need for sleep. 3 hours is often sufficient. Having an unrealistic belief in one's abilities is common - delusions of grandeur. Impulsivity and indulging in high-risk pleasurable behaviors often occur.
With bipolar depression, there is a lack of energy and drive. There is a global lack of interest or pervasive sadness. Cognitive impairments present as having problems concentrating, remembering, and making decisions. These things do not tend to change throughout the day.
Although difficult to tease out, it is important to establish directionality. Does a depressed mood change the perception of external events or do external events drive emotional reactions that include depressed mood?
I don't know if this helps at all. Hopefully, someone who has BPD will offer a more detailed description of what they experience with that disorder.
- Scott
Posted by brynb on January 5, 2013, at 14:37:36
In reply to Re: BPD vs. Bipolar » SLS, posted by SLS on January 5, 2013, at 8:37:35
Thanks for the clarification, Scott.
Although I certainly can be reactive, my depressive episodes/moods seemingly come out of nowhere. Same thing with my "elevated" moods. They just "happen." I don't cycle throughout the day, although on occasion I experience low mood/depression while simultaneously being speedy and/or anxious.
I experience about 3-4 major depressive periods per year that last beyond 2 weeks. Sometimes, though, I feel like my mood is rapidly changeable (I'll be so depressed that I can't leave my apartment, then a few days later, I'm "up" and my energy is high, even if I feel tired). And I can say with a great deal of certainty that it's all affected my concentration and short-term memory. I've struggled with insomnia for years, too.
It seems so egocentric to write all of this out and give so much thought to it, but I'm really just trying to make sense of everything for both me and the professionals I am seeing.
Sorry to ramble. Thanks again.
-b
Posted by baseball55 on January 5, 2013, at 19:04:59
In reply to Re: BPD vs. Bipolar » SLS, posted by brynb on January 5, 2013, at 14:37:36
BPD is a personality disorder rather than a mood disorder, although people with BPD often have seriously dangerous behaviors like self-harm and suicidality. People with BPD generally have difficulty with interpersonal relationships and problems with anger and fears of abandonment. Their emotions are unstable but reactive -- more an issue of dysregulation than bipolar. By which I mean, if they become angry, they lash out in rage. If they become sad, they descend into suicidal depression. BPD is most often treated with therapy rather than drugs. Especially dialectical behavior therapy. Though anti-depressants and mood stabilizers can help with suicidality.
I don't think there's much overlap with bipolar at all.
Posted by Deneb on January 5, 2013, at 19:46:44
In reply to Re: BPD vs. Bipolar, posted by baseball55 on January 5, 2013, at 19:04:59
I think the main difference is that bipolar is a life long disease that you have to learn to manage and take meds for the rest of your life, whereas Borderline Personality can get better.
My pdoc said I had borderline personality and when it was bad, it was really bad, but today honestly I don't think I have any problems at all, not even social anxiety. I just grew out of it, my personality changed as I matured, but that is not possible with bipolar because it is an actual disease. Personality can be changed.
I'm doing so well these days! I'm actually happy, no anxiety, no depression, no bad feelings. I'm a sensitive and social person now. I'm hardworking and I don't even need to see my pdoc anymore. She's done her job. I don't take any meds now.
With bipolar you have to take meds for life, but not with borderline. You can get better and become med free.
Posted by Phillipa on January 5, 2013, at 20:10:41
In reply to Re: BPD vs. Bipolar, posted by Deneb on January 5, 2013, at 19:46:44
Congratulations Deneb!!! Phillipa
Posted by SLS on January 5, 2013, at 21:10:08
In reply to Re: BPD vs. Bipolar » Deneb, posted by Phillipa on January 5, 2013, at 20:10:41
> Congratulations Deneb!!! Phillipa
Me, too!
Deneb - you have a wonderful life ahead of you.
I wish for you a life of curiosity and wonder.
- Scott
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 15:10:30
In reply to BPD vs. Bipolar, posted by brynb on January 4, 2013, at 15:00:37
I suffer from depression which can chage to anxiety like a switch is flipped. When I was inpt. last week the pdoc I had said that many psychiatrists are starting to put this sort of disorder on the bipolar spectrum. Sure, I get no mania, but I get a more 'active' form of disease in the form of anxiety. It actually made me feel good to hear this b/c I've always thought that this kind of thing may be a possible explanation of my illness.
Just wanted to throw this out there, I think it is interesting.
Kat
Posted by SLS on January 6, 2013, at 15:18:59
In reply to Re: BPD vs. Bipolar, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 15:10:30
> I suffer from depression which can chage to anxiety like a switch is flipped. When I was inpt. last week the pdoc I had said that many psychiatrists are starting to put this sort of disorder on the bipolar spectrum. Sure, I get no mania, but I get a more 'active' form of disease in the form of anxiety. It actually made me feel good to hear this b/c I've always thought that this kind of thing may be a possible explanation of my illness.
> Just wanted to throw this out there, I think it is interesting.
> Kat
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20121113/msgs/1031737.html
- Scott
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 16:20:18
In reply to Re: BPD vs. Bipolar » ChicagoKat, posted by SLS on January 6, 2013, at 15:18:59
> > I suffer from depression which can chage to anxiety like a switch is flipped. When I was inpt. last week the pdoc I had said that many psychiatrists are starting to put this sort of disorder on the bipolar spectrum. Sure, I get no mania, but I get a more 'active' form of disease in the form of anxiety. It actually made me feel good to hear this b/c I've always thought that this kind of thing may be a possible explanation of my illness.
> > Just wanted to throw this out there, I think it is interesting.
> > Kat
>
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20121113/msgs/1031737.html
>
>
> - ScottOK, thanks Scott, for reminding me of my earlier post! It is very interesting to me to compare how I felt then to how I feel now. I guess I feel I've moved 'up' on the scale: no more abyss, just really bad depression, which switches to anxiety instead of simple depression. What is most interesting to me is that both times I wrote that it is like a switch being flipped, which is definitely still the case. I really should journal. I am going to share this with my pdoc when I see him on the 17th (no earlier appts. *cry*) And I am starting tegretol tomorrow, so we'll see how that helps. I am going to research trileptal right now as well!
Thanks again Scott
Kat
Posted by brynb on January 7, 2013, at 16:48:16
In reply to Re: BPD vs. Bipolar, posted by Deneb on January 5, 2013, at 19:46:44
Deneb-
I love success stories. That's amazing.
I hope you continue to do well =).
-b
Posted by brynb on January 7, 2013, at 16:56:32
In reply to Re: BPD vs. Bipolar, posted by ChicagoKat on January 6, 2013, at 15:10:30
> I suffer from depression which can chage to anxiety like a switch is flipped. When I was inpt. last week the pdoc I had said that many psychiatrists are starting to put this sort of disorder on the bipolar spectrum. Sure, I get no mania, but I get a more 'active' form of disease in the form of anxiety. It actually made me feel good to hear this b/c I've always thought that this kind of thing may be a possible explanation of my illness.
> Just wanted to throw this out there, I think it is interesting.
> Kat
Kat-Makes a lot of sense to start viewing those of us w/ "MDD" as possibly having the wrong diagnosis. I know my pdoc can't seem to definitively diagnose me as MDD w/GAD or Bipolar 2, even though the more I read and hear about it, the more Bipolar 2 seems like an accurate diagnosis. It definitely would explain the rapid cycling, amongst other things. I think my pdoc still views Bipolar 2 as being less fluid than the newer theories about it. I met with him today though, and he added Trileptal to my mix, and it seems he's now leaning towards Bipolar 2 as a plausible diagnosis.
I'm not really concerned with the label; I just want to feel as close to "normal" as possible and perhaps a diagnosis will point me in the right direction. As far as BPD goes, some of the defining characteristics resonate with me, but most don't.
Glad you're back =).
-b
Posted by ChicagoKat on January 7, 2013, at 18:45:10
In reply to Re: BPD vs. Bipolar » ChicagoKat, posted by brynb on January 7, 2013, at 16:56:32
bryn, your story and symptoms sound so much like me. I am going to bring up the possibility of a Bipolar 2 diagnosis for me when I next see my pdoc. At least I am getting Tegretol added to my therapy, though I think I might ask him to change it to Trileptal when I see him. In my pharmacy handbook, the list of adverse effects with Tegretol was about 2 pages long; the list for Trileptal only took up half a page. Not to mention the actual adverse effects themselves seemed overall to be much more benign with Trileptal than those listed for Tegretol.
I hope the Trileptal helps you and that you start feeling better!
Kat
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